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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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The nicest old tank I saw was this Mercury Marauder - an obviously restored 1964 model, in that strange kind of baroque 4 door fastback style. I could only manage to get a crappy pic before it pulled away. I also saw a kind of beat up looking MB pagoda SL, a smoky 67 Mustang, a pimped out 66 Impala, and the winner of the day, a yellow ca. 70 Ferrari Daytona....something I have never seen on the road before.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
http://c900se.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/wtf_v8_edition_001_001.jpg
I'm thinking I could probably pickup an '04 for about $20K?
You wouldn't see yourself coming down the road every day, that's for sure.
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That thought crossed my mind too, the last time I saw a Phaeton on the road, but I quickly suppressed the idea when I thought about how much it would cost to maintain it. Also, when it really comes down to it, while owning something this unique and luxurious has appeal, the driving experience is probably not too exciting, and that would detract from the overall owner ship experience. That said, I'll probably go through the whole mental exercise again, each time I spot a Phaeton. Fortunately, that's becoming increasingly rare.
On a related matter, just this week I read that while VW pulled the Phaeton from the U.S. market, due to dismal sales, it's still being sold in other markets, such as Europe. Also, a leading VW exec said that VW may reintroduce the next generation Phaeton in the U.S., to retain Passat owners who want to upgrade (I thought that was Audi's role). The next generation Phaeton will be priced somewhat lower than the current one, at least in the U.S. market, to reduce the pricing gap with the Passat. Maybe the main reason the Phaeton failed in the U.S. was due more to improper marketing than the product itself. This also ties in with Americans associating VW with basic transportation, rather than premium vehicles. This didn't seem to be factored into the Phaeton's marketing.
Sorry for digressing from classic car talk.
The big VW on the front of it killed it in NA. IIRC it's pretty much an A8 under the skin, and those don't seem to have trouble selling.
And although not a classic, a 12cyl Phaeton certainly qualifies as an "obscure" car.
I'd rather sink 20K into a fintail and make it a modern car. It could be doable. Put in an M103 inline 6 powertrain, some suspension upgrades, 4 wheel discs (as most don't have this)...and address the propensity for rust. That would be interesting.
On the face of it this sounds nuts, mainly because it exceeds the market value many times over. On the other hand - and, like Truman's economists, we're really good at discovering other hands in these discussions - it could be justified if uniqueness is a high priority. After all, while $20,000 isn't peanuts, it's not an outrageous sum either. If I went this route I'd find a late '80s-early'90s example, before the next, Opel based platform generation ('93?). For the price of a high end Civic or low end Accord, or maybe less(??), you'd have a comfortable, enjoyable-to-drive and distinctive set of wheels. Hey, I'm persuading myself.
That sounds like a fun idea. I've always liked the idea of modernizing an older car, so long as it doesn't affect the outward appearance of it too much. If I had money to burn, I think it would be fun to do that to one of my '79 New Yorkers. Maybe upgrade the suspension to police spec, and swap out the 360-2bbl and 3-speed torqueflite for the 5.7 Hemi/5-speed automatic from a 300C.
The 300C Hemi was EPA-rated around 17/25 (lower with the 2008 adjustments though). I wonder if that same drivetrain in my New Yorker would yield similar fuel economy?
Heck, on that note, I wonder what kind of performance/fuel economy the 3.5 V-6/5-speed automatic would get in my NYer? That would be sort of an unorthodox engine swap, since most people usually don't ditch a V-8 for a V-6. Still, the 3.5 puts out 250 hp, which should be more than adequate. FWIW, my 360-2bbl only puts out 150 hp. And as for weight, I doubt if my NYer weighs any more than a 300C or Charger.
For something like the fintail, it isn't easy. For some time I have thought of putting a big AMG V8 in a fintail and making it to run with E63s etc, but I doubt the car could withstand the stress of the engine. The modern MB 3.5 V6 puts out about 270hp, which is about double a 220SE fintail, so that's still decent...the car only weighs around 3000 lbs, so with modern powertrain, it should move nicely even with that. The old M103 I6 puts out about 180hp, and those engines are proven to last a long while. If I ever have the money floating around with no place to put it, and a suitable project car begging to be saved, it would be a fun experiment.
I've always thought along the same lines. If the lottery numbers ever fell my way, I've thought about taking my L-series to someplace like Lingenfelter and have them breathe on my car a bit.
Nothing too outrageous - I figure something along the lines of, oh, 300-350 HP ought to do nicely (the L puts out 181HP stock). Upgrade the suspension, brakes, wheels and tires and leave it the pewter color that it is.
Not too sure how it would do putting 300HP through the front wheels, though. Perhaps some sort of limited slip might work.
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They didn't sell all that well, I think partly because they were stuffing the sales lots initially with fully-loaded models pushing $26,000. They're also a bit tight inside. About the size of a '97-03 Malibu on the outside, but much tighter in the back seat. I believe they're good handlers, though.
I guess the current Aura sort of fills the same slot.
I could substitute certain Mercedes models for the Saab 900, but my favorites would be the 300s and the much maligned 190 (preferably the less maligned and newer 2.6 six over the 2.3 four or 2.2D). With the 300, I could go with a '80s ('80-'85 123, or '86-'89 124). These are beautiful cars.
I know the 190 is troublesome, but, then, so is the Saab. Is the 190 2.3 more or less reliable and problematic than, say, the '87-'92 900? Is it correct to assume that the 190 2.6 is more reliable than the 900?
"...why not restore a more modern car and not base it on money put it, but rather on replacement cost for an equivalent?..."
Yeah, I'd seriously consider swapping the reliability, fuel economy, and safety features of a new Civic, or its equivalent in another brand, for a well restored, interesting older car. Apparently I have some company, but we're certainly in the minority.
Yes, the base engine was the 2.2 Ecotech, which put out 135HP. My stepson has a 2001 model year with that engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. It's got close to 150K on it and is still running strong.
There was a styling refresh in 2003, which is the year that I have. Mine is loaded - V6, leather (albeit aftermarket), sunroof, upgraded audio system. I paid about $25K for it with my GM Supplier discount.
I will agree that the V6 is pretty spunky .. I suspect that some of that is attributable to the low curb weight -- 3197 lbs.
While my L hasn't been perfect in the 5 years and 4 months that I've owned it, it's never left me stranded, and I average between 23 and 25 MPG in mixed city and highway driving.
I will agree with Andre that the L is tight in the back seat, but the trunk compensates for that at 17.5 cubic feet.
Like I said above, nothing that another 150-200 HP couldn't fix.
It seemed like it was inspired by Steven Spielberg's "Duel".
Funny that the Chinese will build a car with similar styling and be serious about it :sick:
I wouldn't touch a Mercedes 190 2.3 with a ten foot pole attached to another ten foot pole.
It looks more like a '70s Fiat 124(?) than a Volvo 240 to me, especially the roof line, so I'd guess it's based on that Fiat or its badged Russian Lada counterpart.
Actually, while the Soviet era Lada was based on the RWD Fiat design, the Russians managed to turn a good, well designed car, for its day, into a porker, so it could deal with the lousy Soviet roads. And while Fiat assembly quality was certainly less than stellar, the Lada's was notably worse. Of course, it was what one could expect from a system where the workers joked that, "the government pretends to pay us, and we pretend to work."
Odd little thing
Standard of the world
Backwards fins
Practical Ponton
For the brave
I'll bet 90% of the population hasn't heard of an Astre. Probably for a good reason. I remember growing up my friends Grandma had a stripped one like the one posted. Hers was tan with an automatic. She probably drove it 1000 miles a year.
I'm not sure I've ever seen an 850 Berlina but it's a cute little thing, arguably better looking than either of the 850 Sports. I'll bet they were pretty common on the other side of the 'lantic.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I always thought '61 Dodges were kind of vulgar, but I think that styling works better on the longe Polara, than on the stubbier Dart. Plus, I think the sedate colors actually work well on that car. Dodge only built about 14,000 Polaras total that year, which includes all body styles (4-door sedan, 2/4-door hardtop, convertible, and wagons). So I imagine that particular car was pretty rare, even when new.
Mercedes Pontons were unitized, right? I imagine it must've been pretty hard to keep the rust and stress off a pickup truck version of one of those!
That Astre isn't worth $1,358, even on a good day, but if it checks out mechanically one could probably justify paying, say, $850 for it. As andre pointed out, its attractive. In addition, its RWD, and it handles quite well (not because its RWD, necessarily, but I'd view RWD as a plus in this case).
Well it is better looking than an Aztek but IMO it doesn't even fair well compared to a Vega. :lemon:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Astre -- well a suicide bomber could use it and he wouldn't need explosives, as they are built right in.
I would fondly hope that every remaining Astre in the world be fed to this thing:
Robosaurus just sold for $632K. I want one.
Aren't you thinking of Pintos? :P
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
What was painful about Vegas and Astres was that they were called....no....TOUTED.....as "import fighters".
Knockout, Round One.
Liked the Polara - that would certainly be a rare car here,and it does look different, although the fins are a bit weird.
I can't say I'm familiar with the Astre, although years ago I had a neighbour who had a Chevy Vega wagon, which was a rarity here as well..
Liked the ponton pick-up, again a rarity, presumably the mileage is a mistake..
An on the subject of the thread, I actually saw a Vega today, a fastback. It had to have been restored, it was too nice.
Just thought I'd throw this into the mix. If this Econoline is in decent shape, it looks like it would provide functional utility and fun at the same time. About the same price as a used Colorado pickup - which is obviously a better quality ride. But, how many looks does a used Colorado garner?
I have no idea if the $9,900 asking price is fair. Not saying I'd want to drive this thing across country, but it would be fun to hack around in on the weekend as a family work vehicle to haul bags of mulch, the lawn mower, etc. or help a friend move.
Comments?
I also saw two of those 83-85 Camry hatchbacks..kind of an odd thing.
I also saw this immaculate older Subie getting a battery charged at a gas station near my house - pic taken to show the local gas prices (this is admittedly in an expensive area, I paid 3.77 for premium today at another Chevron)
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
And something about the seats just doesn't look right, either. They actually have sort of a crinkly look to them like they might have leather inserts...but would you have been able to get leather on a Dodge in '61? Most cars back then seemed to have wildly clashing seat patterns that were a mix of vinyl and fabric. Those seats look too sedate for that era, like they'd be better suited in a mid-60's car.
Also, the more I look, there's a certain unevenness to the lower rear quarter panel, right behind the wheel opening. The shadow really draws attention to it. Either this car left the factory that sloppy, or it's been patched up. Now they were sloppy with build quality back then, but not THAT sloppy, so my vote goes to Bondo.
Now I don't think Bondo is really that much of a disgrace for a car this old. However, if I'm paying top dollar for a car, then Bondo should not be a component of the car's construction!
I have a feeling this car would look awesome as a 50 footer, or even if you gave it a passing glance at a car show. But once you started REALLY examining it up close, you'd start finding flaws.
61 Polara: Close inspection of photos suggests a #3 automobile, and the top bid, if real, suggests that the bidder has already bid twice the car's actual value. Given condition and the lackluster performance of these 4-doors in the old car market, I'd say this was a real bad buy for the buyer and a home run for the seller.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I wonder if the person who bid the $12.4K realizes what a bullet they just dodged!