andre, I have no problem with a person's freedom to restore whatever he pleases. It's the part when they put a "collector car" license plate on it. Let's call it a problem of "inflation of sacred terms and rituals".
My friend's father owns a 1989 Omni that he bought new, special ordered with NO options, not even A/C. For some reason he treats this car like some kind of rare sports car, keeping it in the garage and waxing it and stuff. It's rather odd, though it's kind of cool to see this pristine Omni on the road. The family also owns two mid-90s Chryco minivans, which he does maintenance on, but he seems to have some odd obsession with the Omni.
If you never saw a Yugo, Vega or Anglia You'd have no idea how far cars have come or how inadequate and dodgy these were compared to even their contemporaries.
Someday a Chevette will get as much attention as a Studebaker or a Model T. Many also have emotional attachments to all sorts of cars because of what was happening in their lives at the time.
I still smile if I see a '59 Mercury because I learned to drive on one.
My personal emotional baggage is a '60 Falcon, because I had one that took me all over Hell's half-acre, including to and from college. By all objective measures, it was a pretty dreary little car. For instance, the primary use for the accelerator was to try to get the car to stop slowing down. It was also tinny, noisy, spartan, and cold-blooded (it had a hand choke, which had to be used liberally to keep it running at all). Oh, and you periodically had to hit it upside the dashboard to get the radio working. Nonetheless, I have very fond memories of it. I wouldn't restore one, however, or even drive one. It would destroy too many time-mellowed memories.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Problem with that Omni? You get a door ding and it's totalled. HA HA HA HA
OK, sorry.
I learned to drive in a Chevette. It had a big hole in the floor board. I guess the best way to brake was to pull a Fred Flintstone and drag your feet on the pavement.
Back to the topic, I saw what I think was an early MG. I actually snapped a pic this time and I'll try to post it later. The guy had the top down and it was about 40 F!
...but two particular cars I'd like to own today are a pristine example of a 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne 2-door sedan for it's the car my father owned and the first car I can remember. The second is a mint-condition 1968 Buick Special Deluxe for it was my first car.
You can get 'em cheap now, but don't wait too long, (post #1682).
The only car I'd be interested in collecting or restoring from my early car owning days is a TR-4 wqhich I still have nostalgia for even though I now know it was something of a @#*^box, even by contemporary standards. Of course I'd rather have a big Healey or even a TR-3.
my Dad was asking me if I'd be interested in going in half with him on an antique car. I guess the '03 Regal he just bought really isn't doing it for him!
I dunno what he has in mind, but It'd end up being something 60's and muscular. Unlike me, Dad hates most 70's cars!
Saw an early Pantera today. Bright orange, actually looked very clean. Only obvious oddity was way oversized (wide) rear tires (fronts were probably wider than normal also, but the rears really stood out). Looked like a drag race set up. Didn't get a chance to look inside (it was parked and I was driving).
Of all odd places for it to be, it was parked in front of a dismal little strip mall, with a dead Bradlees, the goodwill store, and a pet shop about all the action.
I would have bought something like that without thinking if the price was right, and probably would have regretted it shortly after, but I loved these when I was a kid.
Regrettably, it's hard to find a Pantera anymore that hasn't been modified, usually grotesquely. I don't know why this car is a target for such clumsy mods, but it's seems more the rule than the exception.
They are pretty ornery cars but there is this long list of upgrades you can perform, and if you do, you can make a pretty decent car out of a Pantera. But upgrades don't mean boy racer stuff,--rather more mechanical corrections and improvements to correct factory blunders.
I'm only 20 years old and I'm already developing nostalgia for the 1985 Tercel 3-door that my dad owned for 14 years (bought new 10/84, sold 10/98). When I was young, he used to take me out collecting hubcaps (I've been collecting since age 3!) in that car, which is why I remember it so well. The entire time he owned it, it had this rattle in the tailgate area that I'm sure I would instantly recognize if I ever heard it again. The funny thing is, my dad has very little memory of the car even though he drove it every day for over a decade! He does, however, remember his 1974 Vega, which only lasted four years...I guess profuse rust and terrible reliability leave an impression :-)
Those were actually very good cars, those older Tercels. Very simple. Mostly I think the bodies and interiors fell apart, rather than the powertrains. I have a 1983 4X4 Tercel wagon with 240K on it and it runs great and gives 30 mpg. Duct tape and contact cement keep it more or less together body-wise. You can still get parts, too, and it digs pretty well in the mud.
Last year, my wife was adjusting an auto claim. She went down to this old guy's house. He was a retired German engineer with a 1976 Ford Pinto in perfect condition except for a destroyed fender. Clean inside and out. She looked for over a month for a replacement to the fender. She couldn't find one.
Totalled it for ... $4500. No joking.
I liked the Chevette at the time I owned it. It was a simple car and IF YOU DID THE PROPER MAINTENANCE, it was reliable. However, so many Chevette owners treated it like a V-8 changing the oil once a year whether it needed it or not and the cars died at 80k.
My floorboards rusted out. However, my FIL and I had some sheet metal and a rivet gun and fixed that one Saturday afternoon, a few weeks before I totalled it.
Frankly, I just bought the Tercel to beat to death. The Benz I take good care of.
$4,500 for a Pinto? That guy hit 3 cherries in the slots. Lucky I wasn't appraising the car. Actually, if it was a documented mint, original low mileage car, perhaps, perhaps....
I'm in snow country right now, and I'm amazed at how many old Toyota Land Cruisers I see still on the road out here (Colorado). I mean, there are TONS of them running around. Some look very spiffy, a couple with V-8 conversions (judging by those dual pipes out back). I guess these are designated FJ40s, is that right?
Some abandoned cars out here sitting in the snow...an old TR3, open to the weather (nice going, owner!), and an old steel body Chevy wagon, circa 1952?? That's a car I'd like to have actually.
are the original Land Cruisers IIRC with the Jeep-like bodies, straight windshields, hard or soft tops. These were IMHO the last really cool Land Cruisers.
to that Pinto when it was totaled out? Kind of a shame for a car to get totaled just for a damaged fender.
A friend of mine used to have a '77 AMC Hornet station wagon though, and got into a minor fender bender. They estimated the damage at about $450, which is also about what they valued the car at! Cut her a check for that amount (minus a deductible, I guess) and she drove the thing for a few more years.
Visiting, and spotted a bunch of Avos now, no sliders. The little Chevy teardrop things are cute too, but can't remember the designation... px or something.
I didn´t know you had a Tercel wagon, Shifty. My ´82 was a 4 door sedan and wouldn´t die. My former neighbor is still driving wagon and I have dibs on it if she ever gets rid of it.
drove an '86 or '87 Tercel for awhile. It was his parents' car, and they let him drive it when his '85 Cavalier finally died (electrical problems...refused to start one day). I think he drove it for maybe 2 years, until engine sludge got to it.
Admittedly though, it was a car that saw very little use and no maintenance, as even with his parents it was just a spare car. So I don't blame the sludge on Toyota, but on lack of maintenance!
...saw a white 1968 Chevrolet Caprice with the flip-up lights. This is the first '68 Caprice I've seen with them outside of a book. The car was in rather good condition. I also saw a rather ratty 1973 Ford Torino.
I should note that I do see a lot of old Toyota Land Cruisers in my home state of Vermont as well. However, I see the FJ62 4-door model (1981-90) more so than the older FJ40 that we all seem to know and love.
I do know that these old TLCs came with the old, rugged, stump-pulling 4.2-liter six. My economics teacher in high school still has an '84 FJ62 that he bought new, and he has told me numerous times: "This engine is an anvil- I cannot seem to kill it, even though it is slow and gas-hungry." Do you agree with that statement?
She spent WEEKS looking for a fender. Thought she had one as a used car lot offered $1500 for the car but wouldn't sell her the fender she needed. He wanted the car!
had a detailing crew that followed you wherever you went that would polish and shine whenever you parked. I guess you just don't get much for your two hundred grand anymore. Sad.
I love the Citroen DS, wacky as it is. Its forerunners were among the first truly intelligent and modern cars ever made after World War II, compared to the re-hashed stuff most everyone else was putting out (except the Italians, who also produced very advanced cars in the 1950s).
A worldwide team of journalists, curators and historians voted the 1955 Citroen as one of the most significant cars of the 20th Century, and I agree with that.
The wagon was really cool too...sky blue with a white top, and those cool weird pod taillights. Very early 60s looking, I think. That car must have looked like a spaceship back in 1955. Certainly one of the most significant cars...certainly the first really modern postwar Euro car.
Yep, I think Citroen holds the crown there--I don't think the Alfa 750 came out until 1956 or 7. That too was a very modern car. Can you imagine aluminum twincam engine, bucket seats, 5 speed transmission, snug folding top, excellent build quality, etc., so long ago. It sounds like a modern configuration, not one from almost 50 years ago. Of course the '56 Mercedes Gullwing, with tubular frame and fuel injection was no slouch for postwar modernity either.
Maybe for modern postwar mass market cars then. Although the SL predates my birth by well over 20 years, I can look at it in a period context and kind of see it as a period Enzo (or SLR, if you will). It was really an exotic, just a half step away, mainly cosmetics and trim, from being a race car. If I ever win the lottery...
That Alfa sounds like another relatively unknown innovator. It's kind of a shame that over here most Euro cars from that period are overlooked and unknown, when they had so much interesting technology. I know the glamor and glitz of periord American cars is what overshadows that...and don't get me wrong, I can't say anything about chrome and fins. I am just surprised to little attention is given elsewhere. Maybe it's simply because the cars were uncommon here when new. Even in something as relatively common as my fintail...by the early 60s, the car had disc brakes, 4 speed auto, specifically engineered crumple zones, FI, etc. Quite a bit for a 40 year old upper-middle class sedan. It sounds a lot more modern than it is (or looks).
Alfa was very innovative. You didn't see a fuel-injected, variable valve engine in ANY car in 1980, but Alfa had it. First Honda VTEC was some time later.
Lancia had just come out with the world's first V-6 in the 1950s as well.
I got to ride in a fairly new Peugeot 406 cab when I was in Spain this weekend. It was a very good car, with an excellent ride and good build quality. Much better than the stuff Peugeot sent to the U.S. in the '80s/'90s.
Unfortunately for Peugoet, the last cars it sent here were pretty bad, with no dealer support whatsoever. During the early 1990s, my contracts professor would regularly refer to his Peugoet as a perfect example of a lemon, going so far to call it "the worst car I've ever bought" (and he was in his late 40s by this time). From what I've read, his experience wasn't all that unusual.
By the end of the semester, the mere mention of the name "Peugoet" would cause laughter among the class.
The new ones may be better, but they have a pretty big hurdle to overcome in this country.
Most cars in 1983 were junk. You could really point to any car made from 1983 and compare it to the 2003 model of the same car today and see a vast, enormous improvement. The 1980s were the Dark Ages for the automobile and best forgotten.
It's just so rare to see an old Peugeot anymore. I think even some nasty period GM products held up as well. I think the taint to the name here is fading though...I bet with a lot of young people, if you mentioned the name, they would have no idea what it was. Interesting little cars like the 206, especially the little retractable roof version, and the 307, might go over well to a younger market.
I've driven their little turbo diesels for instance and they are extremely competent cars. I think Peugeot could do some niche selling here in the US for both gas and diesel cars, but they'd need a good parts and service network.
I'd say, for the most part, anything that was domestic, RWD, and V-8 was pretty decent in 1983. Maybe not the fastest thing around by today's standards, but fairly sturdy and durable.
Just about anything with an Olds 307 or Mopar 318 could be counted on for long, dependable service. And the RWD Mopar trannies of that time would put most modern units to shame.
I see them every once in awhile at car shows. Didn't they start off as American Austin, but then became American Bantam, with a more modern-looking body?
Would something like that even be street-legal on today's streets? Around what speed would they top out at?
I actually saw one of those in the parking lot out behind my building at work the other day. Not sure of the year, but it was one of those 6-taillight Novas, which I think was the luxury model. Didn't they call them "Concours" some years and LN (Luxury Nova) in other years?
Anyway, this one was far from mint condition, although in dark brown, it hid the rust and dirt pretty well!
Comments
-Andrew L
Someday a Chevette will get as much attention as a Studebaker or a Model T. Many also have emotional attachments to all sorts of cars because of what was happening in their lives at the time.
I still smile if I see a '59 Mercury because I learned to drive on one.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
"Someday a Chevette will get as much attention as a Studebaker or a Model T"
I'd bet against that, heavily. What say a free lunch ten years hence?
Actually Model T interest is waning rapidly, because the people interested in them are also waning rapidly (getting old and passing on).
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
OK, sorry.
I learned to drive in a Chevette. It had a big hole in the floor board. I guess the best way to brake was to pull a Fred Flintstone and drag your feet on the pavement.
Back to the topic, I saw what I think was an early MG. I actually snapped a pic this time and I'll try to post it later. The guy had the top down and it was about 40 F!
-juice
The only car I'd be interested in collecting or restoring from my early car owning days is a TR-4 wqhich I still have nostalgia for even though I now know it was something of a @#*^box, even by contemporary standards. Of course I'd rather have a big Healey or even a TR-3.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I dunno what he has in mind, but It'd end up being something 60's and muscular. Unlike me, Dad hates most 70's cars!
Of all odd places for it to be, it was parked in front of a dismal little strip mall, with a dead Bradlees, the goodwill store, and a pet shop about all the action.
I would have bought something like that without thinking if the price was right, and probably would have regretted it shortly after, but I loved these when I was a kid.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
They are pretty ornery cars but there is this long list of upgrades you can perform, and if you do, you can make a pretty decent car out of a Pantera. But upgrades don't mean boy racer stuff,--rather more mechanical corrections and improvements to correct factory blunders.
-Andrew L
Totalled it for ... $4500. No joking.
I liked the Chevette at the time I owned it. It was a simple car and IF YOU DID THE PROPER MAINTENANCE, it was reliable. However, so many Chevette owners treated it like a V-8 changing the oil once a year whether it needed it or not and the cars died at 80k.
My floorboards rusted out. However, my FIL and I had some sheet metal and a rivet gun and fixed that one Saturday afternoon, a few weeks before I totalled it.
$4,500 for a Pinto? That guy hit 3 cherries in the slots. Lucky I wasn't appraising the car. Actually, if it was a documented mint, original low mileage car, perhaps, perhaps....
I'm in snow country right now, and I'm amazed at how many old Toyota Land Cruisers I see still on the road out here (Colorado). I mean, there are TONS of them running around. Some look very spiffy, a couple with V-8 conversions (judging by those dual pipes out back). I guess these are designated FJ40s, is that right?
Some abandoned cars out here sitting in the snow...an old TR3, open to the weather (nice going, owner!), and an old steel body Chevy wagon, circa 1952?? That's a car I'd like to have actually.
A TR-3 rotting away? makes me sad. <(:^(
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
-juice
A friend of mine used to have a '77 AMC Hornet station wagon though, and got into a minor fender bender. They estimated the damage at about $450, which is also about what they valued the car at! Cut her a check for that amount (minus a deductible, I guess) and she drove the thing for a few more years.
I didn´t know you had a Tercel wagon, Shifty. My ´82 was a 4 door sedan and wouldn´t die. My former neighbor is still driving wagon and I have dibs on it if she ever gets rid of it.
Steve, Host
Admittedly though, it was a car that saw very little use and no maintenance, as even with his parents it was just a spare car. So I don't blame the sludge on Toyota, but on lack of maintenance!
I do know that these old TLCs came with the old, rugged, stump-pulling 4.2-liter six. My economics teacher in high school still has an '84 FJ62 that he bought new, and he has told me numerous times: "This engine is an anvil- I cannot seem to kill it, even though it is slow and gas-hungry." Do you agree with that statement?
http://www.showcars-bodyparts.com/pinto.html
I saw a very dirty Bentley Arnage in a grocery store parking lot yesterday
-juice
A worldwide team of journalists, curators and historians voted the 1955 Citroen as one of the most significant cars of the 20th Century, and I agree with that.
Of course the '56 Mercedes Gullwing, with tubular frame and fuel injection was no slouch for postwar modernity either.
That Alfa sounds like another relatively unknown innovator. It's kind of a shame that over here most Euro cars from that period are overlooked and unknown, when they had so much interesting technology. I know the glamor and glitz of periord American cars is what overshadows that...and don't get me wrong, I can't say anything about chrome and fins. I am just surprised to little attention is given elsewhere. Maybe it's simply because the cars were uncommon here when new. Even in something as relatively common as my fintail...by the early 60s, the car had disc brakes, 4 speed auto, specifically engineered crumple zones, FI, etc. Quite a bit for a 40 year old upper-middle class sedan. It sounds a lot more modern than it is (or looks).
Lancia had just come out with the world's first V-6 in the 1950s as well.
The 206 and 307 are very interesting looking little cars
By the end of the semester, the mere mention of the name "Peugoet" would cause laughter among the class.
The new ones may be better, but they have a pretty big hurdle to overcome in this country.
It's just so rare to see an old Peugeot anymore. I think even some nasty period GM products held up as well. I think the taint to the name here is fading though...I bet with a lot of young people, if you mentioned the name, they would have no idea what it was. Interesting little cars like the 206, especially the little retractable roof version, and the 307, might go over well to a younger market.
Best Peugeot ever was the 504 in my opinion.
Just about anything with an Olds 307 or Mopar 318 could be counted on for long, dependable service. And the RWD Mopar trannies of that time would put most modern units to shame.
Cute little toy cars---the oddest thing is they gather more attention at car shows than 150,000 classics.
Would something like that even be street-legal on today's streets? Around what speed would they top out at?
Anyway, this one was far from mint condition, although in dark brown, it hid the rust and dirt pretty well!