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Nissan Truck
I just replaced a totaled '97 Sonoma with a '97
Nissan. There is no comparison. I really miss the
Sonoma.
Anyway...
The Nissan is fine, but for a few quirks. I does
not handle well. It sort of wanders around the
lane on the highway. I am going to try heavier
shocks.
It is a bear to change the oil filter. My new end
cap wrench makes it almost possible.
Nissan. There is no comparison. I really miss the
Sonoma.
Anyway...
The Nissan is fine, but for a few quirks. I does
not handle well. It sort of wanders around the
lane on the highway. I am going to try heavier
shocks.
It is a bear to change the oil filter. My new end
cap wrench makes it almost possible.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I have had some strange small vibrations in the powertrain, noticeable when I accelerate in second gear. the dealer did a bunch of stuff to it (replced carrier bearings, u-joints, added shim kit) which changed it a little, but didn't cure it (though they said it was when I picked it up). I'm taking it to another (bigger) dealer next. (It has 34K - under warranty). The old dealer said "sometimes the 4 x 4's do this" and shrugged it off. No way!
As for the guy who called Nissans "[non-permissible content removed] Crap", get a life (and a brain). Why do you think American vehicles (esp. GM) have improved so much in the last 20 years? The Japanese automobile mfgrs. were going to put them out of business. Be thankful we have choices.
Actually it isn't a suprise at all. You sound like the guys who work at the Chrysler plant here in Newark,DE. There is no such product of the vehicle trade that is wholly made here in USA.
FACT.
Look it up and ask your supervisor. "[non-permissible content removed] Crap" comments lower all discussions to jingoistic fervor and have no place here. Take this from a roofer who owns 13 "American" trucks and 2 Harley-Davidsons.
If Japanese companies were so horrible, then I guess GM should have never invested in Isuzu.
What amazes me is you have the tolerance to type on a computer board made in Korea.
98 Nissan Truck? Only extra is cruise. Right
now they offer 2.9%/60 or a $1000 rebate.
There is a dealer here offering new 98 frontiers for 10,490 (XE with air, and tape deck and rear bumper)
that is 2,000 below invoice!
can I get him down lower?
I forgot to mention I'm in lubbock TX
Dealer invoice price minus dealer holdback minus rebates, plus 3%-5% profit.
If you are being offered a price below dealer invoice, Nissan must be offering some rebates. You can get info on rebates on this site. You can also get info about the amount of the Nissan dealer holdback. Finally, make sure that you calculate the correct dealer invoice amount. Dealers often will show you something they call dealer invoice, but they have actually factored other expenses into the amount, such as local advertising and floor costs. In other words, it's possible that you may not be as far below dealer invoice as you think. However, I was under the impression that Nissan was currently offering some decent rebates.
I used this site to determine that the 4x2 frontiers have a $1500 rebate. One dealer told me this was right. The dealer that has the truck I want to buy says it is $1000. After a little bickering/haggling back and forth, they said that they would take another $500 off, but that the rebate is only $1000.
Today I called Nissan consumer hotline to get the real story. After the person checked with someone, they said that you need to check with the dealer. This makes me wonder weather it really is $1500. Most rebates are a check to the customer, but this must be different. Any ideas?
A rebate enables the dealer to pay less for the vehicle and pass those savings on to you. If you decided to take a check for the amount of the rebate, that check would likely be cut from the dealer. That rarely happens since most people use the rebate amount to reduce the purchase price of the car. For example, let's say you had agreed to a price of $20,000 for a vehicle without any rebates. Now let's assume that a $1,500 rebate has all of a sudden become available. You have two options. You can get a check for $1,500 and still pay $20,000 for the vehicle or you can pay $18,500 for the vehicle and not get a check. Most people choose the latter.
So far the only problem I have is getting my back used to sitting on a bench seat that does not recline. If you have the money, buy an extra cab with reclining bucket seats. The comfort will be well worth it for extended trips.
The reason you were offered such a good deal is that Nissan can't give their products away. Their recent sales is in a horrible slide on just about everything they make-and getting worse by the day.
It's not that they make a bad product; it's just that they don't make a product that appeals to many Americans. It's quite a difference from 10 years ago when Nissan was a real player in the market.
When they first introduced the Frontier last year my gut reaction was "Why bother?". It seemed like they were introducing a brand new 1988 truck, not a new 1998 truck. I still feel the same way.
This is definately a sign that Ford and Chevy have made extreme gains in the compact area. Only Toyota has stuck it out with Mazda eating out of Ford's hand. This was an area that the foreign makers had the upper hand and it has fallen. Not many would have predicted this 15 years ago.
I just bought a Frontier. Comparison to others, setup equally, I feel is better. A good commuter and personal truck. Many buyers probably want the power and aren't looking at them until the V6 arrives. Those who want the I4 seem to like them. I needed something with respectable milage, and no V6 compacts are. Among the I4 models, Nissan and toyota have the best motors, pretty equal power. Descent power and still 3500 lb towing capability. While I was watching one dealer, 4 4x2 models were sold, including me. Nissan does need to run thier business better but are working on that. They have too many platforms according to what I read.
The frontier is cheap compared to others, especially with the rebates. I got in on the 4th of July sale rebate that totaled $2500. After taxes and all, a 4x2, Kingcab, XE, 5 speed, w/ $550 of options for $13,400. At this price, I am not worried about depreciation. It doesn't have far to go.
JD Powers initial quality survey has it best in compact segment. Typical Nissan quality would be nice. I don't think Nissan is going to collapse because of the slow frontier sales now.
To me the Frontier is too-little-too-late. It's an OK truck, but with little sex appeal - and, unfortunately sex appeal is what sells. Their upcoming '99 4-door crew cab with a V6 should help quite a bit. However, they'll need more "courageous" marketing attempts like that before they can reverse their marketing slide.
Bob
I have not read the business week article so I can not comment on it. I try to look at it as "how does it effect me?" 40% slower sales than last year may be the V6 segment that they have not yet released. I do look at things a little different. I didn't judge it by its looks. I judged it for the functional qualities I was looking for. Try getting in and driving it. Compared to competition, it is equal or better, and quality is great. I saved about $2000 compared to the Ford/Mazda clones, and the Toyota, and even more from the Dodge Dakota, which is the truck I originally was interested in. Wouldn't even consider GM.
I am not concerned about Nissans market share or anything like that. I have never had a Nissan before. Not sure if Frontier sales should matter to me. Why do I care as long as my truck lives up to my expectations. No one has said anything about the real truck qualities that matter to the owner. Is quality down? Is it unsafe? Is it not as capable as other? My understand is that they were ready to release the truck but the V6 was not, so instead of let it sit, they released it to at least fill their largest segment of sales (4x2, 4 cylinder). I am sure the V6 will be right up their with all the others, making the 4x4 strong with good towing. With the lower price tag, it will be right back to similar market share. Don't forget that all competitors have updated too, so maintaining market share is probably the best they would be able to do anyway.
Don't be surprised that they modify the grill/front end alittle to make it look better and give it that "sex appeal" some are looking for. There is that one look at the front from an angle that is "homely". But when you get down to it, are you willing to pay $2000 or more for "looks". I wasn't. The only one that looks any good to me is the Dakota, and that is about $4000 more.
Answer this one question, As a general all around commuter vehicle that will carry the occational stuff a home owner with tons of projects going on, are there any that are better? I found that the frontier rides and feels good, has good mileage (I wanted a four for this), has good payload (second only to toyota with 1360 lbs)and towing (highest with toyota at 3500 lbs.)and it holds its value. I have seen previous models with 100K advertized for $5000 -$6000. For what I paid, I would be happy with $4000 after 100K.
I will be looking for responses. Dave
All your points are well put. Unfortunately the majority of the buying public don't seem to agree with you - as witnessed by its incredibly slow sales. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your wrong. I'm sure it will be a fine truck for your needs, and as you said, that's what is most important.
When I used the term "sex appeal" I was really referring to features rather than looks - although looks are part of it. If it had a V6, and a large tire package, that would certainly help.
Most people who buy compact trucks don't buy them for the pure "logical" reasons such as you have stated. Most of these vehicles are aimed at a younger audience - where "sex appeal" (rather than pure function/value) is very important. The Toyota Tacoma, Dodge Durango and Ford Ranger have that figured out, as their sales have shown. Does that mean they're better vehicles? Of course not.
I would care about whether Nissan is successful in the marketplace because it could very well effect the trade-in value. If the vehicle is not popular, your trade-in won't be as high as with a more popular vehicle. Also, if the vehicle bombs in the marketplace, it won't be around very long, adding further to trade-in woes and possible parts/service woes.
Bob
My only gripes are that although Nissan has refined the four banger, it feels to me more like 43 horsepower rather than 143. I suspect this due to gearing and intake design. I would like to know if anyone could recommend some good bolt-on performance mods. Also, I have noticed a "seat of the pants" vibration at highway speed (70-75 mph). Has anyone else experienced this?
That's the feeling I had when I did a test drive; however, a number of other partipants in this conference have claimed (almost boasted) that it has ample power. But I tend to agree with you, and I believe the reason it does feel so underpowered is it has only 154 ft. lbs. of torque AND YOU DON'T GET THERE UNTIL YOU'RE AT 4000 RPM. That's another way of saying you have to downshift..... and I mean way down, maybe to 2nd to get an adequate amount of torque. Someone else in one of the above posts wrote about towing 3500 lbs. I couldn't try that with a demo test drive, of course, but I have a hard time believing it possible if the gearbox is in 4th or 5th. I'd expect that you would have to be in 3rd on level ground and down into 2nd for the slightest hill to tow that much weight.
What transmission did you get or is it 4x4? I have only been interested in the 5 speed manual with 4x2, and it didn't seem toooo bad (I won't be trying to blow away anyone at the stop lights
however). I wouldn't put an auto with any four banger, in any vehicle. I am biased. I am so used to shifting myself, I hate something else doing it for me. But typically, you can find the power band best manually. Also, 4x4 adds lots of drag to the drivetrain, and needs more power. That is probably why they don't offer the auto with 4x4. Not enough power. The truck is in no way quick, but I did feel it was adequate with the 5-speed, 4x2, and I think better most others with a 4. I didn't drive a toyota setup like this, but their 2.4 liter 4 has similar power. Don't know whether it feels quicker.
As to the torque distribution, has anyone seen any curves (hp and T) on this engine? One review I read, said that the mods this year, flattened the torque curve, but I would like to see it before I believe it.
You bring up a good point on the add-ons. The first thing I thought of when I popped the hood and saw that big air cleaner can sitting there was that there has got to be something better. Don't know whether K&N has anything for this yet, but typically they may have less restrictive replacements that help performance some.
I will check out that shake you mentioned this weekend. I had not noticed anything before, but I will look better.
Bob,
You are right also. The one thing that I have found irritating in some of the reviews I read (I must have read them all), is that they spent the whole thing complaining about the lack of a V6. I agree, it needs one to meet all other needs, and to be competitive. This could restore much of the lost sales. But there are other things about a truck that should also be reviewed. The truck itself in some reviews is overlooked.
I hope to be able to provide good feedback with some miles. Next weekend I will be going camping with it for a week, I am sure the 9 hour drive to Maine will reveal any complaints.
I've found, as a rule - rather than the exception, pickup truck reviews are not much different than car reviews. Too much focus on comfort, luxury, unimportant items, and not enough attention paid to function. Many reviews never even mention payload, or how the truck performs with or without a load.
Bob
In it there is a comparison test of all the major compact 2WD extended cab pickups. Again, I haven't yet read the article, but according to the final tally, the Frontier was rated dead last.
Bob
I got my issue the same time as you, and read it last night. Yes it was rated 5th of the 5. Read it. Then give me your true reaction.
I read it and I will try not to be biased since I own one now but these are the things I picked out that are faulty about this review.
1) C&D is not sure what a truck should be. They say the Frontier is least truck-like, the S-10 tries harder to be a car than a truck, and the Dodge changes "trucklike" to a complimentary term. Makers have been making trucks more and more comfortable and "Car-like" for 10 years now, and people have been buying them more and more. This is what people want. Truck-like is a negative term. (My girl friend initially didn't want me to get a truck based on that image; vinyl floor, bench seat,terible ride,...)
2) They say it themselves, they tested a setup of trucks that are not as popular, "The majority of compact pickup buyers prefer less expensive, more lightly optioned trucks than we tested." I guess the majority should not consider this review valid.
3) These trucks were not equipped alike at all. Stepsides by Ford and Chevy, Prerunner Toyota, SE Frontier has all the accessories. I don't see how the can consider this "apples to apples".
4) The ranking is shown on the last chart. The total is not a total of the individual characteristics, but is independant judgement including personal preferences. Again, this is from people who are not sure what a truck should be, as proven by the catagory "Yee-Ha quotient". These are 4x2 P/Us, what yee-ha do you expect?
5) What about quality, fit and finish, ... Add that stuff in, the 2 japanese move up compared to big 3.
Back to what this forum is about. The frontier actually had some bright spots. Large bed, almost as big as the dakota. Ride most like a car. Not the slowest! (Should be considerably better w/V6) Consistant braking with and without load. Though skid pad was not great, emergency lane change was good, and this is without any sport setup (Performance tires, ...) like the Ford and Chevy. Quiet ride. Good payload. Towing is low with the I4/auto (We shall see what comes with a V6, but the I4/manual has 3500). And lastly, best price. Having shopped for a more modest setup, where the biggest option I wanted was A/C, This truck is a good choice. I found that the XE package had what I wanted. The others A/C was an option. With a lower initial price, then add the option on the others, the diverge significantly, $2000 more than a $15,000 frontier is 13%. Then with the high rebate, it is a good deal. I guess the Texans think so too. Selling third behind Ford and Chevy.
I'm asking $7500. Is that too high or too low? Any suggestions?
PS - I'm selling it in Omaha, NE.
I really can't argue with you. You're right with everything you say.
The fact remains that the Frontier (and other Nissans) remain lost and invisible in the marketplace. Unfortunately, having a good product, is not enough to ensure success. Mazda and Mitsubishi have the same problem.
Subaru was in the same situation several years ago but overcame it by focusing on AWD and their boxer engines. Nissan (and the others) need to find and/or develop something "really unique" about their product - and hammer it home to the buying public. To be "slightly better" or "slightly different" isn't enough in today's market. There's not another vehicle line like Subaru. And, they make a great product, and let the consumer know it. That's why they're successful.
The C&D review is typical of "car people" testing trucks - which is both good and bad. It's good in that they reflect the pulse of much of the market. It's bad in that they tend to gloss over "work/functional" items that "truckers" are often more interested in.
I don't agree with them in their assessment that most of the compact pickup truck market goes for lightly equipped/optioned vehicles. At least that's not the case (or my perception) in my neck of the woods.
Bob
I know what you mean when you say invisible. It is hard to spot a frontier on the road. The "hardbody" P/Us are plentiful. I think that the hardbody was inexpensive relative to others (not sure) so that helped make the difference before. But with the frontier not available with all configurations, they are not hitting all segments in this market. I think Nissan is using price as its difference, at least that is what drove me to consider them. I have never bought Japanese before. Price is really the only way they can get a portion of the market here in the USA. Don't expect them to compete with the Big 3. They should be aiming to beat Toyota, Mazda (Mazda has been running an ad saying they are cheaper than Nissan, but it is not so, at least with what I priced), and Isuzu. I don't know what conditions are in other markets.
As with other auto types, the different makers are offering almost identical cars and trucks(looks, performance,...)the choices are disappearing. As an example, have you seen the Ford F250, F350? They must like the the Dodge Rams, so they are doing the same to the fenders, offering a V10, and such. I almost believe, of the Big 3, Chrysler is doing the best design work. Separating themselves with the vehicle is very difficult. That was why Dodge styled the Ram and then the Dakota like they did, trying to give them recognition and that "Sex appeal".
I think what they meant by that statement was for 4x2 buyers. Seems that 4x4 buyers get it all, where the 4x2 buyers are looking for more of a basic car with capability to stop at the lumber yard and actually buy something.
To reply to the Frontier owner with the vibration at 70-75, I did not experience that. You might need a wheel balance. Mine feels good. Having had various 4x4s and trucks in the past, I am actually impressed with the ride. My truck is replacing a 96 ford contour, and it is not a disappointment to get into and drive like trucks used to be.
What I meant by invisible was - even when they're there, they're invisible. They just don't stand out in the crowd. They blend in and disappear.
Nissan is going after people such as yourself. You don't seem to be interested in the biggest or the flashest - just a good solid vehicle, at a good price.
Bob
I agree with your assessment of the 4x4 buyer vs. the 4x2 buyer. Where I live, semi-rural Maryland, I see far more 4x4s than I do 4x2s, which is why I made the statement about seeing more "loaded" compact trucks.
As for the large Dodge Rams and Ford Super Duties, yes I am very aware/familiar with those vehicles - and am a big fan of them too.
I mean invisible in that you don't see many yet. But more now since I have become interested.
I am in Saratoga Springs, NY. Even though we get snow that can stay for months, I question why people buy so many 4x4s. I used to be one of them. 1 jeep cherokee and two full size broncos. I found that you wait and wait for the day when it finally snows good (maybe 3-5 times a year), and you can finally use that $4000 AWD that you paid for. When it does, you get in put it in 4, start to drive, and then quickly get held up by some who is not going any faster than you could in 2 wheel drive. I used to go around those people, but these days I am more conservative. Most buyers probably don't go four wheeling, or buy it for good reasons. So why pay the extra, plus poorer mileage, less exceleration, less payload, and rougher ride. Image??
Nissan truck buyers probably have never been those looking for the image thing. They have never been flashy trucks. I like to see the ones that are 10 years old, 150,000 miles and the own says that I have not had to do anything to it. Same clutch and all. One guy told me the only thing he has to do is spray the window track on the driver door because it gets stiff. My brother drove one to 160,000 miles as his work truck and finally traded it in and got another because he felt he was on borrowed time, not because it died. Don't expect that from any other maker besides Nissan and Toyota.
Dave
me it will be the 3.3l that we have in the pathfinder which has 168hp, I don't remember off
hand for sure, but I believe the frontier will
have 176hp when they are done with it, these
are due end of september, also this fall, only the
4x4 x-cab will be available with the 6. BTW, I
just bought my frontier on the fourth and am loving it!
just looking through some old posts here under the nissan truck catagory, I was shocked at some of the misleading things said about nissan trucks,
I know that taste is subjective, so I won't attempt to address the issue of styling, but so far as the slump for nissan, it is happening with all japanese auto makers, the reason is the asian currency crisis, the sales numbers take into account overseas sales to china and indonesia,
which are hurting because of this crisis, I am not sure about the accuracy of the 40%sales slump in trucks when the frontier came out, but even if it is accurate, think about it logically, truck buyers are not stupid, they know, just like car buyers know, not to buy right away when a new model comes out, they wait for the prices to come down, proof of this is that I could not give away
a frontier in the first three months of introductiuon, now frontiers account for half of my new car sales in the last 2 months, it is just like the altima, it was stone cold at first, then
nissan gave us the money to sell it lower and now
I can't keep altimas around, 98's are worth their weight in gold! The point about sales are slow
because there is not a 6 avilable yet is hogwash,
would anyone care to guess the percentage of 4cyl
compact trucks sold? it is approximately 86%!!
I sold nissans in 94 when we had a 4 and a 6, I
sold 20 or 30 4cyls before I sold one 6! the fact
is that the frontier has the most powerfull standard 4cylinder out there, and from the posts
of everyone here, they prefer the 4! as do I since
I just bought one. Any intelligent person will see
that the frontier is the best out there, it handles better than any other truck gives you the largest bed, is the only one with a timing chain instead of a belt, has more room than the ford/mazda and tacoma, has a tighter turning radius and is a more advanced 4x4 (g-sensor, boxed
frame etc,) As far as the resale value, the statement that the frontier resale value will be hurt because it is unpopular is ludicrus! nissans
have historically had some of the best resale values out there, and there is no reason to believe otherwise, after reading some of these misleading posts, I start to wonder if some of these people are really just uninformed or are
actually hiding their real agenda.
Thanks for allowing me the rant, and I would be happy to answer any questions for anyone
Really? I'm afraid I have a hard time believing that 86 percent of all the trucks sold in the US during 1997 or up to now in 1998 had 4-cylinder engines. That means that all of the others (V6, V8, etc.) represent only 14 percent of US pickup sales.
Does anyone else have any statistics and the source of those statistics to corroborate this?
I realize that 100 percent of Nissan's pickups had 4-cylinder engines because that's all they made in those years; however, their contribution to all pickup sales in the US has been very small.
cncman, when you use the word "misleading", I presume you mean anything said about the Frontier that is negative. It isn't just the people posting here in Edmunds who are negative. There have been a lot of others who have written very uncomplimentary articles about the Frontier. As a matter of fact, I hadn't seen one that wasn't critical and believe me, I looked for them because having had a Nissan pickup and having been satisfied with it, I was ready to get another. As you know if you read the previous posts, I didn't.
You'll have to excuse me for thinking this cncman,
but by your own words, you're Nissan saleman and I'm familiar enough with that occupation to know that there are such things as sales-promotion meetings. A lot of what you broadcasted above really sounds like the stuff a sales manager would try to fill the heads of sales people with in order to stimulate or improve sales. You, as a car saleman might swallow it, but most customers probably don't fall for it. Sorry. 30 4-cylinder pickups sold for every 6-cylinder that went out the door. Wow! That really sounds like a whopper. Was that true nationwide, or just in the car dealership you worked for?
And the last accusation I'd take issue with is that the participants in the forum are either uninformed or have some ulterior motive for saying what they do. "Uninformed"? Hardly, they are better informed regarding this particular topic (pickups) than any other group I've ever encountered. I suspect the service manager at your dealership might not even be able to follow some of the technical discussions that have occurred in these posts. "Hiding their real agenda"? I'm pretty darn sure you have a purpose for your comments that is related to how you make a living, but I doubt if that's the case for the rest of us. I think for most of us, it's just recreation and a chance to give and receive information about a topic in which we have a mutual interest. A lot of times we don't agree, and sometimes there is no resolution to the disagreement. That's all part of the game.
As for the Nissan pickup. Because I was so happy with the last one I had, I'd probably buy another in the future if Nissan would straighten out their act. But it will have to be a major improvement over the current Frontier, and I don't believe they have any intention of doing that. I'd love to have the opportunity to tell Nissan's top management what's wrong with it. If you can arrange that, great. Go for it. But I suspect they are not interested in hearing from potential customers. They'd rather concentrate on marketing gimmicks like the TV ad where a little dog tells its master what kind of a pickup to buy.
www.carprices.com
has prices for vehicles back to 1989. I had an 87
pickup and my son had an 89. They were essentially the same vehicle, so you may want to check out the 89 figures. With 161,000 miles, I doubt if the difference in price between a 10- and 12-year-old vehicle would be more than a couple of hundred.
folks Nissans, NO!, if you think about it most of
you don't live in my state, much less within comfortable driving distance to me. So why am I here? Simple, I am a car/truck enthusiast like the rest of you, I dream about a v-12 aston martin
like everyone else, I only want to learn about
other makes and models out there and to offer my assistance with questions like when the 6cyl frontier is coming out, I will make a promise to everyone here, everything I state will be verifiable by a third party source, if it is not true, then call me on it! I will back down.
Keeping all of this in mind, I guess I should respond again to lwf, please if I am bothering anyone, I could make this my last post on these topics, but I just can't stand to see information get slighted, and twisted. I am sorry, lwf, but maybe I should have been more clear with my statement that 86% of COMPACT trucks sold in the US are 4cyls, I did not mean as you imply that 86%
of ALL trucks sold had 4cyls in them, obviously the chevy z-71 did not have 86% of their sales in 4 cylinder trucks. nor did the ford F-350, when I
said compact trucks I meant the nissans ford/mazdas, toyotas etc. but I did not think this needed to be said, but this is here for your benefit, I have to get the source of this info
on monday because I don't have the article anymore, but it came from a copy of "automotive news" a publication primarily for dealership owners and managers. It is very professional and very accurate.
No, lwf, when I say misleading I don't mean anything that is said negatively about the frontier, I know that there is no one truck or car
that is right for everyone, but when someone puts their own spin on information or just presents bad
information, I feel that is misleading and that is what you are doing and it is a disservice to the
members of this forum, but again I thought that this was understood, again I expand for your benefit.
When you say that you have not seen anything
but critical and uncomplimentary reviews of the
frontier as much as you looked, it makes me wonder. It makes me wonder how you could find an
obscure article about nissan management, but you could overlook the fact that intellichoice named the frontier "A best overall value in its class"
for 4x2 and 4x4, toyota did not make it for both or any other import. (source; 1998 complete small truck guide). It makes me wonder how you can find out that frontier sales are down 40% but you can't seem to find the motor trend's "truck trends"article from april of 98, that finished its glowing review of the frontier by saying
"The frontier is signifigantley more refined, offering a more compelling value than ever before".
Were you unable to find articles as obscure as
intellichoice and motor trend or do you consider these uncomplimentary? BTW I have a list of several others if anyone wants them, but I want to
save space.
as for the statement that when Nissan had the 6 cyls that I sold 20-30 4cyls for every 6, that has been my experience at that dealer, I am sorry lwf,
but it was not convenient for me to sell trucks at
every dealership in the US, I try to speak from experience or unbiased material as much as possible. What I did for everyone today was call a couple of salesmen at a ford dealership and a toyota dealership, to see what their views were,
(I don't feel comfortable putting their names and phone numbers here, but if anyone wants to call me on this, I will ask them for permission for you to call). Keep in mind that I sell trucks in Texas
and virtually everyone in Texas drives a pickup,
so I think we are a good measuring stick for this
sampling. The person at the ford dealership said that she sold about 10 4cylinders to every six,
in the Ranger, the toyota person said his ratio
was probably 15-18:1, I think that this random sample shows my figures to be accurate.
A few other erroneous details to clean up here,
lwf said that I was brain washed by a sales manger
into thinking that the frontier had the tightest turning radius, the largest bed, the only one to offer a timing chain, more room, a better ride,
most standard horsepower, etc. Please someone help me, because I must be hallucinating, every publication including edmunds says that these are facts not opinions. Again if I lie call me on it,
that's all I'm doing to you lwf, the people here
don't need uninformed opinions.
For everyone's information the VP's lwf mentioned leaving nissan because of the frontier,let me
tell you the truth, Eastman was fired because the
"enjoy the ride" campaign did not have the results desired for all nissan vehicles. The fellow from Japan was an interim VP and was said so from day 1. So far as the Nissan sales slump, it is not because of the frontier, it is because of economic
factors in japan, and a changing US market, or would lwf have us believe that the frontier caused
toyota and honda sales to fall also? Watch out toyota and honda owners, by lwf mathematics, this means that your hondas and toyotas are worth less
because they are not selling now!
Well I guess I should wrap this up, but I would like to reitterate, that everything I say is fact, not opinion, I have nothing to gain here, If I BS,
or anyone else BS's call them on it! I will tolerate opinions as to which is better or styling, because that is in the eye of the beholder, but if someone says something is junk
then they need to back it up.
Is the nissan frontier unreliable? No
Does it have major advatages over competition? yes
do the people who drive them feel that they made a good choice? yes.
will a frontier have good resale value? yes
anyone who says otherwise is either uninformed
or has a chip on their shoulder.
Bye for now,
Byron,
will have 168hp and I should get one within 30
days, I will let you know when it gets here.
also I should get the four door in soon to.
contact me with any questions
Byron
We can sit here and argue till doomsday about statistics that you've presented. The fact of the matter is that Nissans aren't nearly as popular as Japanese brands. Honda's, Subaru's and Toyota's popularity in the USA in recent years has grown tremendously, while Nissan's popularity has decreased tremendously. That's a fact. It has nothing to do with the "Asian crisis". It has to do with marketing the right vehicle at the right time, at the right price. That is something Nissan has consistently failed to do.
You dismiss styling as subjective. True. However, I find (and...speaking as a graphic designer, who teaches design at a college level) that many Nissan products to be much more unattractive (Frontier and Pathfinder especially come to mind) than most vehicles that they compete against. I suspect that much of the buying public feel the same way. And...it is styling that first attracts "most" people into the showroom. Remember the saying: " You never get a second chance to make a first impression"? Well, if people are turned off by the looks, chances are you'll never see them in the showroom.
Nissans for the most part offer good reliable, middle-of-the-road transportation - and so do virtually all the other brands that Nissan competes against. As I said before, Nissan has to find a (significant) way to set itself apart from the others. So far it hasn't.
Bob
"Brainwash" was your word; I didn’t use it. But perhaps I should elaborate on what I meant. You said and I quote:
"the frontier has the .........most standard horsepower, etc."
I’m glad you made this statement, because it also seemed to be strong point in a lot of the Frontier TV ads I’ve seen. I believe it’s 143 HP and, of course, in Nissan’s view of the pickup world we should be talking only about 4-cylinder engines not 6s. That seems a little absurd since every other compact pickup manufacturer can, in fact, provide an engine with more HP than the Frontier. But even if we go along with this charade and restrict the discussion to 4s, isn’t the standard 4-cylinder engine that comes in a Tacoma 4x4 150 HP???? And the one that comes as standard equipment on the Tacoma 4x2 is only 1 HP less that the Frontier’s at 142 HP, but it has more torque (160 vs. 154 ft-lbs), so I’d imagine most drivers would call that a standoff. Maybe I’m wrong but if I am, I’m sure I’ll be told about it. But if I am right, this is what I was alluding to when I referred to a sales manager putting ideas into the heads of their sales people. Because I saw and heard those TV ads, I have to believe this "more horsepower" concept was not something you dreamed up by yourself; rather, it came straight out of Nissan dogma. If the above statement isn’t a lie, it certainly sounds to me like it’s at least bending the truth to compensate for all of the criticism Nissan has received for not providing a 6-cylinder engine in their Frontier. (The best defense is a strong offense.) Like I said before, I don’t think customers buy it. Well.......some might, but I don’t.
Another quotation from your text is: "I would like to reiterate, that everything I say is fact, not opinion."
Sorry, I just couldn’t resist. Welcome to the pickup conference. Something else I also said before is that we often disagree. But it’s good recreation, and you’ll have to admit you’ll hear about things your friends won’t tell you.
In a strange way, the late 90's trucks are paralleling the late 60's muscle cars. Basically, more power=more truck sales. If you want an example, just look at Dodge's advertising campaign. Most every line of trucks (Nissan included) desperately wants some angle on "Our truck is more powerful than x, y, and z," even though the vast majority of their sales will be lower-powered models.
Largely, Nissan's left-out. It's not going to be outmuscling anything, even in V-6 form. The S-10's 4.3L and the Tacoma's DOHC 3.4L both have it soundly beaten. This is why I agree Nissan blew it.
They had an opportunity to pair a great, car-like chassis (new Frontier) with their world-class selection of engines (Maxima's VQ30DE, for example) in an image building truck. Then, when you pulled up to the stoplight you could say, "I wonder what that guy's got in that thing?" instead of "Oh. . .another Frontier."
Whatta y'all think?
I guess it's pretty clear that you and I are on the same side of the table regarding this topic, but it's been years, actually decades, since I've gunned the engine at a stoplight, so that's not the real basis of my disappointment with the Frontier. But you're exactly on target with what you said about Nissan not taking the opportunity to produce an image-building truck using engine technology it already had. If the V6 cncman referred to is really going to be only 168 HP, it's going to be just another case of what rsholland said above, "too little too late". How can that compare with the 190+ HP engines that are available with compact pickups available from other manufacturers. I don't want to burn rubber when the light turns green, but I would like to have as much power for towing as modern-day engine technology can provide.
By the way, I don't think this idea of not making the best engine available is something only Nissan is guilty of. It seems to me the Ranger would be greatly enhanced if Ford dropped their 3-liter and 4-liter V6 engines completely and made the 205 HP 4.2-liter engine used in the F150 the V6 power plant for the Ranger.
UPDATE: Took delivery of my 1998 Frontier XE, 5-speed, 4x2 on 7/10/98. Turned 2000 miles this morning. Have had it loaded sevaral times already, many projects have been waiting for a P/U, and have done one trip to Maine from Saratoga Springs, NY, 8 hours each way.
First, lets talk the truck, not drivetrain. Ride is quite good. I am impressed with the handling, it actually handles well. Tracks good, no wandering. In sharp turns, it doesn't feel like it is top heavy like some p/u's. Feed back through the wheel is good. The standard tires on the XE are 65 series with alloy wheels, I am sure this helps a lot. The interior is very comfortable for 2(most owners don't need anymore than 2 but need the extra room for stuff). Reclining Bucket Seats are very comfortable, even for long trips. Dashboard is simple and easy to read and use, but I should have gotten a tack. Am used to not having one but it would be nice. Interior noise is low. Ventilation is excellent. Visibility is good. The bed is big for the compacts. Actually is about the same size as the Dakota. I think that the Dakota truck is wider because they flare the wheel wells a few inches where the Frontier is flatsided. Bed is about the same. I takes the load pretty well. I rented a "ditch witch" this weekend. With about 1200 lbs in there, the truck squatted but handled fine, not that I or anyone else would push it when loaded, but going 55 mph is felt fine and stayed straight.
Now the drivetrain. I am not disappointed, as long as the 5 speed is with the I4. (As I have said before, an auto trans takes to much power from I4s) The key is being in the correct gear. This is the same with all I4s. The Frontier does have a good base I4 engine and is probably at the top of the sector with Toyota. In 1 month all you V6 lovers will get what you want. I am satisfied with what I have. It can get the truck moving quickly when you need to and in general traffic I am not the holdup, other are. Mileage has been good, general driving last fill up was 25 mpg and cruising on the trip was ~27 mpg.
Now to the arguements here.
Image stuff you guys mention is very shallow. If this is what you are looking for, go buy a Loaded 2500 Ram 4x4 with a V10 for $30,000. Lot of image and lot of bucks. Compact trucks (Junior P/U) are not much for image.
You guys are already saying the V6 is no good and it is not even out yet!! Do you guys pick your vehicle purchase based on 5 or 10 hp on the spec sheet. DRIVE IT FIRST. When the Frontier gets the V6, you will get the added power you wanted. Compare equal setups that you are in the market for, get a price, then decide what you want. Engine output and vehicle performance are not the same. See the R&T comparison where the Frontier I4 bested the V6 Dakota. You guys don't seem to be interested in what you need, but instead want to out do everyone else, wanting more power than everyone else.
Some of you have or had older Nissan P/Us, what did you see in these boring old trucks when you bought them. Nissan P/Us never were flashy, the fastest, or anything other than inexpensive tough trucks that are dependable. What else is the Frontier lacking, leather seats?
If image was so important, why is the ranger the best selling. No hotrod, no great looks, nothing more than a good product at a reasonable price. The frontier is now at a better price and has better quality. First impression I get reading most of the anti posts: People should spend time, after the first impression, researching and comparing when thinking about spending $15,000 or more for a compact P/U.
I feel better, Dave
First of all, I applaud you for getting the truck you wanted. As you say, talking about "image trucks" is shallow. After all, every truck buyer should examine his needs and get the truck that bests suits his application.
However, that's what most of the pickup market has become in this era of booming pickup and SUV sales--shallow. Even old-time pickup guys weaned on Ford 300cid sixes and chevy small-blocks have fallen under the spell of V-10's and 24V Cummins diesels. In this era of cheap fuel, the more power makers can shove into compact trucks, the better (witness the 5.9L Dakota Sport).
I've test-driven a new frontier, and I agree with what you say: it drives well, good ergonomics, etc. It's just my assertion that Nissan needs something to pull truck-buyers onto the lot to experience that for themselves. Many people seem to be dismissing the Frontier outright without ever driving one because of bad press like:
Car & Driver: "Needs more power. . ."
Motor Trend: "Would like a V-6 option. . ."
These sentiments have been echoed here, as well. I just can't see how Nissan didn't see it coming.
As for what you say about the Ford Ranger, that it has no "image leader," what about the "Splash"? 4.0 V6, stepside bed, available 5-speed automatic, power everything--sounds like an image-leader to me.
I don't think anyone here has said that Nissan makes a bad truck. I know I haven't. What I (we) been saying is that that Nissan doesn't make many vehicles that appeal (for a variety of reasons) to much of the public.
I'm not saying that you have to have an "image" vehicle to do that. I'm saying you have to have something really compelling (or outstanding) about your product to attract me to it. There are too many good pickups out there to choose from. None of the pro-Nissan arguments that I've read are enough to sway me over. I can get virtually everything Nissan offers from Toyota or Ford - along with a number of other goodies that Nissan doesn't offer. OK, I will admit that the Nissan may (?) be cheaper. But I don't buy on price alone.
Bob
1. The 3.4 V6 from Toyota is the benchmark engine in this class. Build an engine that is equal or better than the Toyota engine. The 3.3 V6 that Nissan offers is NOT that engine!
2. Offer a 5-speed automatic.
3. Offer a fully independent suspension - front and rear.
4. Offer full-time 4WD capability - along with part-time capability.
5. Offer a 4-door pickup - with a "decent-sized" bed - not the tiny "sandbox" that they're proposing to offer this fall's 4-door pickup.
6. Offer a 16" large tire package.
7. Offer also a "full-size" pickup with all the above mentioned items.
Now, those are the things I would like to see. Sure the vehicle would cost more. But I would gladly pay for those items - even if it still had goofy styling!
Bob