I was never one for celebrity worship, so I guess the appeal of mind-numbing rumination in the details goes over my head. I mean, one guy speeding, other guy asleep at the wheel, BANG----end of story. Nothing heroic about getting in an auto accident. It's not like he died defending an orphanage from marauding armies.
I think you hit that moving target as well as anybody could.
When I first saw it on ebay, I was stumped. Even with the pics and "history" it was still a bigger mystery to me than a kamikaze pilot wearing a crash helmet.
So props to the host (and the Ferrari Secret Information Network too) for quickly and discreetly shining a bit more light on the subject.
And one more link to a smart and funny 1996 FCA article regarding real Ferraris and fakes and "Shades of Gray." There's even a reference to a 250 GT California Spyder "resurrected" by the Giordanengo shop which built the William Favre GTO replicas.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
Well I think the eBay car is "legit" in terms of having the right chassis and engine, and some of the alloy body---but really, the car would be better off with new alloy body panels or an entirely new alloy body. It would probably be worth doing.
Had the old beast out today...a random guy approached me in a parking garage and talked my head off about it for about 20 minutes. Then when I was parked outside, sitting in the car yapping on the phone, a guy driving by started taking pics of it...don't know if I liked that, as I like to remain incognito :shades:
Not many oddities out there...saw a 79-85 Eldo on wire wheels, 2 87-91 Camry wagons within a couple minutes of each other, and a Euro SLC of some variety.
A local second-hand dealer in my area has a replica Shelby GT-350 on his lot. I knew it had to be fake as soon as I saw the blue LeMans stripes winking at me from the roadside because this is the type of dealer that carries prosaic late model stuff like pickups, Foresters and Corollas. Any Mustang would stand out let alone a Gen I Shelby look alike. A look at the price on the windshield confirmed it's fakeness ($21,995) but at first glance it was cosmetically impressive with good Oxford White paint and dark blue twin striping. It wore chromed Cragar-style Mags that were period-correct but not Shelby OEM.
That wonderfully understated stock hood scoop was missing but certain details typical of '65 Mustangs should have been deleted, namely the Mustang and "289" emblems on the front fenders (they were not found on Shelbys). The interior was stock Mustang, lacking the sport seats and central tachometer hump found on '65 Shelby models.
This car did not have the rear side windows and brake scoops found in later GT-350s but early '65 models didn't either. I asked what was under the hood and was told "crate 302" which is probably better than making-do w the stock non-HiPo V8 this car came with.
Assuming you could knock the price down a bit this car could be a tempting alternative to otherwise unaffordable Shelby Mustangs which trade at near or above six figures IIRC but it would bother me if anyone thought I was trying to fool people into thinking it was an actual GT-350. If it were mine I'd have to repaint it in a rat-rod primer scheme and change the plate from the current 65GT350 to NOTA350
For better or worse, the era of incognito is over forever. With phone cameras, speed cameras, red light cameras, plus cameras in buildings, garages, airports, downtown, and who knows where else, the only way one can remain incognito is to live in a cave in some remote area, like Bin Laden.
there are a gazillion GT350 fakey-doos out there. It's one of the most popular forms of "tribute car" as they say in the collector car trade. It's a "tribute" in the same way a photocopy of a $100 is a tribute to Benjamin Franklin. :P
No harm, done, I guess, as long as some unsuspecting poor soul who is not knowledgable isn't fleeced in the process.
The really CLEVER fakes are more problematic. In those cases, seller A tells buyer B that it's a fake, and then B might tell C, but C might forget to tell D.
Yeah, I know it's just a matter of time until everywhere devolves to a British-style camera on every corner ideal "for your own good" to be monitored by overpaid irresponsible untouchable public sector sucks. I suppose I could wear a mask while I drive :shades:
It just seemed odd sitting in the car while some stranger drove up and snapped pics. I suppose there could have been some kind of rare bird or attractive woman behind me, and that's really what he was snapping.
it is amazing how many cameras are already out there, and not even government ones. seems like every time there is a crime on the streets (especially hit and runs) they come up with some kind of security camera footage of the car or perp. at or near the scene!
" hearsay is evidence of a statement that was made other than by a witness while testifying at the hearing in question and that is offered to prove the truth of the matter stated."
I dunno, but if I were president, I don't think the EPA would be too happy. I wouldn't give GM or Chrysler any more bail-out money unless they brought back Plymouth, DeSoto, Pontiac, and Olds! :P And require that Chrysler and Buick go V-8 only!
At the driveway of the "local Andre" who I can see from my front room window, I saw a very nice looking late W140, probably 1998-9, probably S500. This is the guy who has a W126, 1960 and 61 Fords, big 68 Chrysler, Eldo coupe and convertible (although I think the coupe sold) among others.
When I see something like that I think of Mr. Drysdale and Miss Jane from the Beverly Hillbillies. That is a very handsome example. My only gripe when I see a nice, well-restored or original car like that is why someone would put red heater hoses on it. Along with yellow plug wires, they are my pet peeve.
Andre will have to be careful, because if any of our left-coasters survive the melting of the South Pole, they may try to pelt him with dead penguin carcasses...
What about global warming caused by all those little people driving big engines?
Well, in my ideal world, Chrysler would return to more of the position that it was in the 1950's, before they started trying to move it downscale into DeSoto, Dodge, and now Plymouth territory. So it would be somewhat low-volume, and consist of mainly larger, V-8 powered cars. Maybe not the healthiest thing for the environment, but most people would be driving smaller, more fuel-efficient cars that could be badged as Plymouth and Dodge.
And while I joked about bringing DeSoto back, I just don't think it has a place in this day and age. There's just not enough market to support that kind of hierarchy anymore. It worked back in the day, as Chrysler could concentrate on building mainly more expensive, luxurious cars, while having DeSoto around to build cars that were every bit as big, but cheaper in price. Once the 1958 Windsor, and especially the 1961 Newport came out, Chrysler lost a lot of prestige in my opinion. Popular cars, especially the Newport, but IMO it still diluted the name.
I just don't think it has a place in this day and age. There's just not enough market to support that kind of hierarchy anymore
I don't think with the current state of the industry any manufacturer should have more than two divisions. One mainstream and one luxury, period. Any thing more and its simply redundant. My best example is GMC... what do they offer that is unique? Nothing I can think of.
Saw a 500SEL this morning with historic plates on it. What I found odd was it was painted in a green color I have never seen on a Mercedes. It was a little lighter than the hunter green that was all over in the early 90s. Could that have been a factory color? I tried to snap a pic, but traffic was nuts this morning.
I think it depends on how the cars are done, especially the interiors, and how they're priced. I cite the first generation Cadillac Seville as an example. It was based on the Nova platform and, therefore, smaller than the rest of the Cadillacs, yet it wasn't cheap, pricewise. It was generally considered successful, thanks to sharp styling and a luxurious interior. In a way, the 4 door Thunderbird was another example, although it failed. Maybe it failed because it was too big, heavy, and softly sprung.
Of course, hindsight is golden, but if I could go back to, say, the late '60s, I'd say there would have been a place for a BMW 3-Series (2002) competitor. I'm thinking about a luxuriously appointed sedan on the Valiant/Dart platform, with the 273 or 318 engine. This Chrysler would have featured styling differentiation from the Valiant, a well appointed leather interior, and sportier driving dynamics, including tighter steering. Plymouth already had the Barracuda, and Dodge had introduced the Challenger, both reasonably successful. I'm suggesting that there could have been a market for a compact, sporty, luxurious smaller sedan in the Chrysler line.
The problem I see, in retrospect, is that the market for lower trim level large cars, such as the DeSoto, was shrinking. By the mid-late '60s, or even earlier, people equated size with luxury. However, there was also market space for luxury compacts. This was briefly occupied by the luxury compacts that were introduced by the Detroit 3 in '73-'75, but these cars were missing the sporty driving dynamics that would have appealed to import buyers.
The cars I've described would have probably been too small, given the price, to appeal to you, andre, but I think they would have appealed to the growing market for upscale European imports. Toyota and Nissan saw this opportunity when they introduced the Cressida and 810/Maxima. Detroit could have seized that opportunity earlier.
My best example is GMC... what do they offer that is unique? Nothing I can think of.
While they don't have anything truly unique, I do prefer, for the most part, the styling of the GMC vehicles to that of the Chevy-branded vehicles. I don't know if that's enough to warrant keeping GMC around, though. I'm sure if GMC went away, most buyers would just take the Chevy equivalent.
One exception though, is the Yukon. I just don't like those big, oversized, deer-in-the-spotlight headlights.
I'd have it customized, though...a roughly 10" stretch in the back seat...all of it going to make the back door and roll-down window longer. Oh, and yank out the smallblock and fit with a 440. And a nice, factory-quality sunroof!
After Andres election, perhaps he would appoint me Official People's Car Czar, wherein I would break off GMC from Chevy and make GMC a specialty truckmaker marketing only "work" trucks. We'll do ads with big sweaty guys with GMC branded on their biceps or impossibly beautiful cowgirls ropin' and ridin'. Yee-HAW!
One exception though, is the Yukon. I just don't like those big, oversized, deer-in-the-spotlight headlights.
Yeah, I'm not big on those either, but I definitely prefer the looks of a Sierra over a Silverado.
I don't know if you can get everything offered in the Denali trim on a Chevy. At one time going with the Denali gave exclusive use of the 6.2/6speed combo, but I think that can be had in a LTZ Silverado and Suburban. I don't think that's available in the Tahoe though, not sure.
They couldn't do a commercial like that nowadays, because some idiot would try to replicate it and get hurt or killed! I noticed that there isn't even a disclaimer along the lines of "trained professional on a closed course. Do not try this at home". I guess back in those days, people were smart enough not to imitate everything you see on tv? :P
Remember when JEEP used to show their vehicles dashing into creeks and streams? Well people tried that, only to hydro-lock their engines. Lots of complaints on that one.
That reminds me of the Carfax commercials a few years back where they showed people doing all kinds of crazy stuff. I particularly liked the red neck letting his hunting dog drive his f150. That was pretty funny.
It was definately a W126. If I had to guess it was "Zypressengrün Metallic (876" hard to tell though as it was dull and rainy out today. I never realized the huge range of colors for those models. It had to be 1985 or older, NJs historic plates are for vehicles 25+ years old.
Comments
Well, I guessed about 2.5 million and it's gone to $2.9. Not bad considering that a really nice one would bring $6+million plus.
But oh man, I wonder if the entire history of this car has been properly disclosed. Well, we'll find out if sparks will fly or not after the sale.
Nothing riskier than investing in a Ferrari with a Big ???? over it, its entire life.
Nothing riskier than investing in a Ferrari with a Big ???? over it, its entire life.
Wow almost three mil for a car that's been crashed (probably more than once). :sick:
A Competizione model with steel panels?
Dubioso as they say in Italian. :sick: :confuse: :lemon:
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
When I first saw it on ebay, I was stumped. Even with the pics and "history" it was still a bigger mystery to me than a kamikaze pilot wearing a crash helmet.
So props to the host (and the Ferrari Secret Information Network too) for quickly and discreetly shining a bit more light on the subject.
And this link to autoblog shows that Gooding and Co auctioned off a 1959 Ferrari 250 GT LWB California Spider Competizione for $7,260,000 at Monterey 2010, so you're on a roll Shifty.
And one more link to a smart and funny 1996 FCA article regarding real Ferraris and fakes and "Shades of Gray." There's even a reference to a 250 GT California Spyder "resurrected" by the Giordanengo shop which built the William Favre GTO replicas.
Well I think the eBay car is "legit" in terms of having the right chassis and engine, and some of the alloy body---but really, the car would be better off with new alloy body panels or an entirely new alloy body. It would probably be worth doing.
Not many oddities out there...saw a 79-85 Eldo on wire wheels, 2 87-91 Camry wagons within a couple minutes of each other, and a Euro SLC of some variety.
That wonderfully understated stock hood scoop was missing but certain details typical of '65 Mustangs should have been deleted, namely the Mustang and "289"
emblems on the front fenders (they were not found on Shelbys). The interior was stock Mustang, lacking the sport seats and central tachometer hump found on '65 Shelby models.
This car did not have the rear side windows and brake scoops found in later GT-350s but early '65 models didn't either. I asked what was under the hood and was told "crate 302" which is probably better than making-do w the stock non-HiPo V8 this car came with.
Assuming you could knock the price down a bit this car could be a tempting alternative to otherwise unaffordable Shelby Mustangs which trade at near or above six figures IIRC but it would bother me if anyone thought I was trying to fool people into thinking it was an actual GT-350. If it were mine I'd have to repaint it in a rat-rod primer scheme and change the plate from the current 65GT350 to NOTA350
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
was there anything else replicating a Gt350 about it?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It had the correct badges in the grille and tail panels and on the steering wheel. I didn't ask if any Shelby suspension bits were installed.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
No harm, done, I guess, as long as some unsuspecting poor soul who is not knowledgable isn't fleeced in the process.
The really CLEVER fakes are more problematic. In those cases, seller A tells buyer B that it's a fake, and then B might tell C, but C might forget to tell D.
It just seemed odd sitting in the car while some stranger drove up and snapped pics. I suppose there could have been some kind of rare bird or attractive woman behind me, and that's really what he was snapping.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You mean "hearsee evidence"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Andres Limo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbQZyxxS_bs
What country would that be?
What country would that be?
I dunno, but if I were president, I don't think the EPA would be too happy. I wouldn't give GM or Chrysler any more bail-out money unless they brought back Plymouth, DeSoto, Pontiac, and Olds! :P And require that Chrysler and Buick go V-8 only!
At the driveway of the "local Andre" who I can see from my front room window, I saw a very nice looking late W140, probably 1998-9, probably S500. This is the guy who has a W126, 1960 and 61 Fords, big 68 Chrysler, Eldo coupe and convertible (although I think the coupe sold) among others.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
What about global warming caused by all those little people driving big engines? :P
Would you consult with AlGore?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Drysdale Imperial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8bNdFfWVtk
Well, in my ideal world, Chrysler would return to more of the position that it was in the 1950's, before they started trying to move it downscale into DeSoto, Dodge, and now Plymouth territory. So it would be somewhat low-volume, and consist of mainly larger, V-8 powered cars. Maybe not the healthiest thing for the environment, but most people would be driving smaller, more fuel-efficient cars that could be badged as Plymouth and Dodge.
And while I joked about bringing DeSoto back, I just don't think it has a place in this day and age. There's just not enough market to support that kind of hierarchy anymore. It worked back in the day, as Chrysler could concentrate on building mainly more expensive, luxurious cars, while having DeSoto around to build cars that were every bit as big, but cheaper in price. Once the 1958 Windsor, and especially the 1961 Newport came out, Chrysler lost a lot of prestige in my opinion. Popular cars, especially the Newport, but IMO it still diluted the name.
I don't think with the current state of the industry any manufacturer should have more than two divisions. One mainstream and one luxury, period. Any thing more and its simply redundant. My best example is GMC... what do they offer that is unique? Nothing I can think of.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
http://rt.com/prime-time/2010-10-04/brief-history-soviet-cars.html
Of course, hindsight is golden, but if I could go back to, say, the late '60s, I'd say there would have been a place for a BMW 3-Series (2002) competitor. I'm thinking about a luxuriously appointed sedan on the Valiant/Dart platform, with the 273 or 318 engine. This Chrysler would have featured styling differentiation from the Valiant, a well appointed leather interior, and sportier driving dynamics, including tighter steering. Plymouth already had the Barracuda, and Dodge had introduced the Challenger, both reasonably successful. I'm suggesting that there could have been a market for a compact, sporty, luxurious smaller sedan in the Chrysler line.
The problem I see, in retrospect, is that the market for lower trim level large cars, such as the DeSoto, was shrinking. By the mid-late '60s, or even earlier, people equated size with luxury. However, there was also market space for luxury compacts. This was briefly occupied by the luxury compacts that were introduced by the Detroit 3 in '73-'75, but these cars were missing the sporty driving dynamics that would have appealed to import buyers.
The cars I've described would have probably been too small, given the price, to appeal to you, andre, but I think they would have appealed to the growing market for upscale European imports. Toyota and Nissan saw this opportunity when they introduced the Cressida and 810/Maxima. Detroit could have seized that opportunity earlier.
While they don't have anything truly unique, I do prefer, for the most part, the styling of the GMC vehicles to that of the Chevy-branded vehicles. I don't know if that's enough to warrant keeping GMC around, though. I'm sure if GMC went away, most buyers would just take the Chevy equivalent.
One exception though, is the Yukon. I just don't like those big, oversized, deer-in-the-spotlight headlights.
I'm tanned, rested and ready, Andre.
Yeah, I'm not big on those either, but I definitely prefer the looks of a Sierra over a Silverado.
I don't know if you can get everything offered in the Denali trim on a Chevy. At one time going with the Denali gave exclusive use of the 6.2/6speed combo, but I think that can be had in a LTZ Silverado and Suburban. I don't think that's available in the Tahoe though, not sure.
"Keep your eyes on the test dummy at the front wheel and the rider seated behind him..."
For Andre's limo, maybe one of those early 80s Imperials like in Cannonball Run II could work too.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Lucky they have their own oil! :P
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The W126 was one of the last old fashioned cars in that you could order it to virtually any spec you want.