Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

14034044064084091306

Comments

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,194
    1975ish Corvette in a dark burgundy. Nice color on that car.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If it was a factory hood scoop, that would have to be about a 1968 XR-7G ( a rather rare car indeed) or more likely a 1969 where the hood scoop was just an option you checked off.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,812
    edited September 2010
    Your mention of the '73-77 GM A-body 4-doors reminded me of a few things I remembered about them. Honestly, I didn't like the styling. The four inches of added wheelbase gave the cars a 'stretched' look in my eyes. I think the best-looking four-door (looked 'integrated') in the GM stable then was the '75 and later four-door Nova. Made a sharp upscale model ('75 LN; later Nova Concours models). More than a little hint of BMW in the cut of the rear door and that vent on the "C" panel right behind the door.

    When I first saw a '73 4-door Chevelle, it reminded me that I couldn't remember a 4-door Chevy with small windows behind the rear doors, since the '60 model. I remember that the front doors seemed small and had very stiff detents; i.e., you really had to pull them to close. They had a different sound when shut than other cars up until then.

    One thing I despised about some '73 Chevelles were the ones that came without chromed rain gutters. You saw up close the sloppy fit of the weatherstrip, some of which would normally be hidden behind the chromed gutter. Also, I remember when you opened the hood, the windshield was cut in an all-jagged manner and had no chromed overlay at the bottom to cover that up, as full-size Chevys did.

    However, those Chevelles drove tightly and quietly, rode great, and handled well even in base form...a large improvement over the '72 Chevelle in those areas.

    I'd love an SS, or Malibu, or Laguna coupe in a dark color, but the Malibu would have to have the optional wheel opening trim and optional chromed rain gutters!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    68-69 are distinguished by round turn signal lamps in the front. The only way I know of telling a 68 and 69 apart is the 68 has no "Stingray" badging.

    70-71 IIRC are identical in styling cues ...except peeking inside at the console that lists the engine specs one could tell a 71 with lower hp rating.

    72 had a different side scoop...and was the last year for the chrome bumper.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh I didn't know that about the '72 side scoop. Good tip. Yes, 70-71s are hard to tell from the outside. You have to peek in the car.

    That's right, '72 was the end of the chrome bumper and just about the end of a credible Corvette until the C4 arrived some ten years later more or less.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    I think you're right, the 70/71 Vettes look identical except for inside. But didn't all the 70/71/72 models have the same "ice cube tray" side gills?

    And remember when most Detroit cars had "thumb button" door handles? The '68 was the last Corvette with a door latch button that had to be pushed to open. Wonder if it was one of the last domestic cars to have that vintage body design? I don't remember now.

    Some of the other differences are pretty minor ...
    image
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,201
    Re the thumb button door handles, they carried on for a long time. Within GM, the A-bodies had them thru '72, the Nova thru '74, and pickup trucks well into the 80s. Then they were revived with the FWD full-size cars in the mid-80s. Personally I like that design, especially the '60s version.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,618
    A Buick 4 door hardtop, white roof over red paint, maybe a '61.
    Lincoln Mark III, black top over light metalic green, looked brand new.
    Got a good long look because the wife was driving.
    A gold 67 or so Cadillac coupe with a sharp cutoff at the back of the roof.
    Looked showroom new just like the Lincoln.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm lookin' at the "Corvette Bible" and it shows the side scoops the same on 71 & 72 but different on '73s.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,194
    aout running around locally today.

    first, a 1971 or 72 Corolla. Actually looked very clean. Somewhat restored, and sounded like it might have been "souped up" a bit.

    Later a 1969 or 70ish LTD convertible. What a boat.

    and maybe the rarest, a VW fox wagon (the 2 door). Later day Vega kammback! white, and looked original, although these looked ratty brand new. I remember test driving one in around 1991 when they first came out. What a piece of crappola. As bad as, or even worse, than a low line Hyundai of the day.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,015
    What a piece of crappola. As bad as, or even worse, than a low line Hyundai of the day.

    Actually, I can think of one thing to say in defense of the Fox. Years ago, I had a roommate who had one. It was a POS for the most part, always breaking down. But, one day, he locked his keys in it. I was going to just try the old coathanger trick. I locked my keys in my '89 Gran Fury once, and did it once in my Grandmother's '85 LeSabre. Even though both cars had framed door windows, the frames were flimsy enough that I could still pull them back just enough to get the coathanger through, and pull the lock up. Not so on this VW Fox. It had those aircraft/limo-style doors, where they wrapped a bit into the roof. But they were also pretty solidly built, tight enough that I couldn't force a coathanger down in, at least.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Believe it or not, the worst vehicle I had to try and break into after leaving the keys in it was a Ford U-Haul truck. Ended up calling a locksmith, he had to call another one and all told it took close to an hour to get in.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 264,046
    That's funny... I locked the keys in an Econoline in a one stoplight town. Walked down to the service station (remember those?), and the guy said give him five minutes and he'd walk back up there with me... He brought his "break-in" tools, and had me back in the cab in about two minutes!

    Inserted two shims around the window... one shim to push the button in on the vent window latch...the other shim to push/rotate the latch open... Once the vent window was open, you could reach in and back to lift the door lock button..

    In that town, probably 50% of the vehicles were Ford trucks... I guess he had a lot of experience...

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,367
    Years ago, my fintail suffered a broken transmission cooling line, and the car was to be parked at an ice arena parking lot for a couple days until I could get it fixed. It was no problem to park it, and the nice people who worked at the facility came out and locked my door after I left it unlocked. I left it unlocked because the previous owner lost the key and I never bothered to get it fixed - there's nothing in the car worth stealing and no sane thief would want that thing. I came back to have the car towed to be fixed (cost under $200 including the tow, nice) and it took the tow driver a good 45 minutes or more to get the car opened...I forget how he finally got in, but it drove him nuts and he swore up and down he had never dealt with anything like that before. It has vent windows, but they either weren't useful or took eons to work around.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,618
    I think I see some interior predecessors to the 'ram boxes' there.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,812
    The Nova had the thumb button door handle right through the end, in '79.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited September 2010
    I should have used a pic showing the door release button on the '68 Corvette but couldn't find one before I posted.

    It was a "thumb button" door release with an integral key lock set into the button. Discontinued in the Corvette line after '68, I don't recall if other cars used that same style after then.

    Found a pic! '68 Vette pic on top, '69 Camaro below:
    image

    My old '78 Nova had the separate handle/lock like the Camaro pic.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ....a drop-dead gorgeous dark grey metallic 1948 Cadillac sedan travelling west on Rte 73/Church Road near Rte 309 outside Philly.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Last of the flatheads.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Those are nice old cars and remarkably cheap. The people who collect this type of car is fast disappearing, so they are coming on market with fewer takers.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,015
    About a month or so ago, I saw a '46-47 Cadillac convertible, burgundy, driving down Interstate 70 in Maryland between Frederick and Baltimore. Looked like it was in great condition. I was surprised, but also pleased, to see something like that actually being DRIVEN, rather than trailered around.

    It seemed to have no trouble keeping up with traffic, too, at speeds varying around 65-75.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Once they get moving (the hard part) they can cruise pretty well. These are lazy, low rev engines.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The 1948 Cadillac would've had the new body style, but retained the flathead V-8. The 1948 Cadillac also had an unusual instrument panel that was used only that year. The 1949 Cadillac Series 75 sedan and limo retained 1946-47 styling.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    The Series 75 with the new 331 c.i. engine was one of the most beautiful packages Cadillac ever produced. Prewar styling with post war Kettering engine! :):)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,618
    I saw that the new 6.4 Hemi is being marketed as a '392', which is pretty iconic.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Would a car of that vintage have an auxiliary overdrive, or was that a '50s thing?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think they were common in the 50s, but seems to me this techology goes back to the 1930s. I know late 40s Packards offered it.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited September 2010
    Studebaker offered an overdrive transmission as early as 1939 (until the end of production) and it was wonderful. When the overdrive was engaged by pulling a lever connected to a cable, it was like having a two-speed rear axle in that an additional gear would kick in when you let up on the gas pedal. (You could also use it between second and third gear if you reeved the motor fast enough, but it was not built for that purpose.)

    In most cases you would only use it when in third gear where it would behave like a fourth speed or a passing gear without shifting. It also had "free wheeling" in which the motor would not slow the car down and save gas. You also had the choice of locking it out so that it acted like a conventional three-speed transmission and the motor would slow the car down (for example when going downhill).

    It was the best of both worlds, both automatic and standard transmission. I believe that it was built by Borg-Warner and was used on other cars. I wish that transmission was available now. It was great.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes it was Borg Warner and it was available even earlier than 1939 I think.

    We really don't need this anymore because just about all transmissions are overdrive---and no modern driver is going to let off the gas, reach down and push in a cable, or conversely, have to disengage the overdrive (going down a long hill for instance, where the Borg Warner completely freewheels) by either a) stopping the vehicle, or romping on the gas to allow pulling the cable back out. You couldn't just reach down and disengage.

    One nice feature is that you could shift without using the clutch pedal (if you were careful) but of course if you stopped you'd still stall unless you pushed in the clutch.

    The British overdrive system was electric/hydraulic and was a lot more elegant---you could engage/disengage merely by flipping a level on the steering column, and you also got overdrive in 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

    The American system, while reliable and effective, seemed primitive in comparison.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Everything about overdrive was good for its day, except the free-wheeling feature, in my opinion. The brakes just weren't good enough in the '30s, '40s and '50s to compensate for the elimination of engine braking. Yes, you could disengage overdrive, but that took precious time, some presence and at least a little skill. I'd bet that a few accidents would have been avoided over the years if overdrive just hadn't had free-wheeling. That said, I think overdrive was a very worthwhile option. Some cars, such as the '40s and early '50s Chevys and Plymouths, would have greatly benefited with that option. Plymouth began offering overdrive, as an option, in '51, and Chevy in '55. Those cars were poor highway cruisers without overdrive.

    I think one of the main reasons that overdrive wasn't more common was that most American drivers didn't want to be bothered with more gears. That's probably also the reason that, unlike most European cars, American manual transmissions had three speeds instead of four. The word "convenience" comes to mind. People didn't want to have to downshift after making a 90 degree turn on city streets. They preferred lugging their torquey, low-revving engines a bit instead of down shifting. There were other reasons too, such as cost, and cheap gas.

    Those who were concerned about fuel economy, engine wear and reduced engine noise were the ones who coughed up the money for the overdrive option -- when it was available. A four-speed manual would have been a better way to go, in my opinion. No manufacturer of mass produced cars offered a five-speed.

    To Shifty's point about the superiority of the British overdrive, one additional reason it was better than the Borg Warner (some Fords had Columbia units), is that the British overdrive was coupled to a four speed manual.

    I always admired the GM Hydra-Matic because, until the '60s, it was a four-speed. Other automatics had two or three speeds.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    The car manufacturers held a lot of petrol stock in their portfolios & by limiting the buyer to a more "convenient" 3 speed, the cars were consuming a lot more gas.

    During the war, the speed limit was 35 mph on the main highway so as to keep the RPM's down and conserve fuel. True, the first Hydramatic had 4 speeds, but real O'Drive economy didn't arrive until the AOD's of the 80's.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Frank Rizzo's 1980 Cadillac

    Good God! This is the one I should go for! :):D :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Wow, that has Lemko written all over it.
  • jljacjljac Member Posts: 649
    edited September 2010
    The nice thing about the Borg Warner overdrive transmission is that you could choose whether to use the motor to slow the car or not. The free wheeling feature only applies when the overdrive is engaged. For cruising around town at 50 mph or less, or in places with hills and grades leave the overdrive off. When it is engaged, you have four speeds but only have to shift three times. If you want to pass another car, it works like an automatic trans. . .just push the gas pedal down and the car drops to third gear without overdrive so long as you hold the pedal down. Unlike an automatic, you can push start the car ,. . .just hop in and pop the clutch. You get to choose between wear on the engine or wear on the brakes. In "modern" cars you have to change the brake shoes and pads more often because you have no choice. I guess that makes me pro-choice.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,367
    Buy it!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,194
    saw that in today's local paper (philly being local). Time machine car, only 16K on the clock.

    and Rizo is the ultimate Philly icon (which is truly sad for philly natives, sorry Lemko!)

    But with a reserve of 40K (minimum bid) on it, I expect crickets to rule the auction.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Saw a BMW M3 yesterday and it was purple. I mean like a generic-brand grape soda can type of purple...ewwww
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2010
    Which is definitely the reason I'm not there. A minimum bid of $40K is way too much for even the best 1980 Cadillac sedan in existence. I don't care who owned the car. Bring the car down to a realistic price and I'll be down there in a second.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,812
    I think that era Fleetwood is magnificent!

    And being an '80, it at least avoided the 8-6-4 and 4.1 era.

    I do like how in like '84 and '85 the entire bodyside molding was the color of the car...no chrome beading/outline...which gave the look of no molding, like Fleetwoods right up til 1970 had. But I wouldn't trade that for those damn aluminum V8's!

    It's hard to look at the car and think that was a downsized model from only four model years earlier!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    A minimum bid of $40K is way too much for even the best 1980 Cadillac sedan in existence.

    Yeah, that's way out of line.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah sure, I respect my father's memory so much that I'm going to throw the car into a public auction.....once a politician, always a ......

    Looks like about a $7500 car in a normal sane environment without happy gas being piped into the room.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    "Brougham is being put up for auction at the Boardwalk Classic Car Auction in Wildwood by his son, councilman Frank Rizzo, to raise money to care for a statue of the mayor. "

    Sell it for $10,000 & buy him a plaque! ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A bronze statue?....er....this wasn't Julius Caesar you know....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 264,046
    Tell that to Hank Steinbrenner and the Yankees! :surprise:

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    Yeah well in a few decades those statues will be like the ones you see in little towns, with the guy on the horse......"who was Beauregard P. Fulston anyway?"

    I didn't realize bronze statues cost $40,000. If this auction doesn't go well, they might have to settle for fiberglass.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,194
    I think there is already a Rizzo statue somewhere in town. And Rizzo Jr. is a long time city councilman (and in philly, that is not a compliment).

    If they really want to honor the old (oops, can't say that word here), they should dig a hole in the broad street median (the no parking zone) and bury the nose, and let the butt stick out (way out), like the caddy ranch in TX.

    Lemko will get the humor in this I think!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    edited September 2010
    "I can't wait for the unveiling of that statue." ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,367
    Today's oddities - clean International Scout, 67-69 Camaro, blue Ferrari 360, another E28 diesel (this one smoking pretty nicely and driven too aggressively by a young [non-permissible content removed] looking type you'd expect to see in a daddy-purchased M3),and I saw that mint looking Datsun 810 wagon again that I have seen a few times lately. Little old lady driver...and fresh damage on the drivers side fender, like she hit a pillar or a garage.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,226
    edited September 2010
    I must confess I hadn't heard of Mr Rizzo, but then...
    Central London is loaded with statues to worthies of bygone ages, and although many of them are at least famous here, there are a larger number who were probably not well known by the time they finished paying for the statue...Even in Trafalgar Square, apart from Admiral Nelson, who most would know, there are other mostly Victorian generals etc on statues dotted around, and when there was a competition some years ago to fill a spare plinth (empty since the 1860's when the square was rebuilt) the local press ran an article on how nobody knew the identities of these other guys at all - apart from one who seems to have a lot of pubs named after him (Lord Napier).
    This applies in particular to politicians, as usually they fall out of fashion.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably best they fell into obscurity, or their blunders might be better known as history was further clarified. Lord Nelson is, of course, unimpeachable.
This discussion has been closed.