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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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Comments

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited September 2010
    A big old Chevy could get sideways at speed if you braked hard and then let traction and road conditions finish the job. Flipping a big, old, Chevy convertible over though, nice touch Louie!
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Shifty, man... you should write a book about your lifetime involvement with things automotive. Seriously! I know that you must have considered it. It would be a great read for car-nuts like us... maybe even a movie !!!

    Geez, who could they get to play Shiftright ??? :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    The '57 Ford body twist stories and doors opening, came right out of Iaccoca's book.

    He related a story that when he went for a ride with a Ford "road man" that he knew, who was driving a new '57 Ford four-door hardtop, that the guy had the rear doors tied together with rope across the inside of the car, and the guy told him it was because if he hit a bump they'd fly open.

    Based purely on looks, I'd take a '57 Ford over a '57 Chevy any day of the week. And we were a Chevy family and had a '56 when I was a kid!

    The Technical Editor of the Studebaker Drivers' Club for over 30 years, who owns other makes of old cars besides Studes, I think summed it up accurately when he said he believes the Chevys of that era were built more solidly and better mechanically than Fords, ensuring that many Chevys of that era ended up being in the used-car pool for a longer time than Fords and thus were cheap for young guys to buy and "rod up".

    I do know that our '56 Chevy was very badly rusted by '64 when we got rid of it...particularly over the headlights. But the styling integrity of the '55 and '56 is excellent IMO.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Well that's a case I think of "cars on paper" vs. cars in reality. On paper, you are absolutely right, the '57 Plymouth and '57 Chevy did match up pretty well. In reality, it wasn't that close, probably because Chevys could be so easily modified--you could also slip Corvette engines into them without much fuss.

    I was merely talking about overall size, and how the '57 Plymouth was viewed as such a big, monstrous car, when it really wasn't that much bigger than a '57 Chevy. My Mom's first car was a 1957 Plymouth. She doesn't remember what series, body style, or engine, only that it was gray, and that one time a window shattered when someone closed a door too hard. And she didn't like it, because it was "too big". What did she replace it with? A 1966 Catalina convertible! A car that was probably around 8-9 inches LONGER than the Plymouth...but, the Plymouth was a "big" car!

    Admittedly, they did improve handling a lot in those years. A '57 Mopar is a good handler...for the era, but a '66 Pontiac is going to handle better

    A few years ago, my Mom was visiting, and I was getting something out of the garage. Well, she doesn't really keep track of what cars I own, but she noticed my '76 LeMans. I said yeah, it's not that different from the '75 you had when I was a kid. She just looked it it, perplexed, and said "Really?! I used to drive a car that was that BIG?!" I told her hell, she used to drive something bigger, and pointed to my '67 Catalina. I let her sit in it, and she just felt intimidated by its size. Yet, as a teenager, she had no trouble at all zipping about in a similar-sized car.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't remember if I read this in Iacocca's first book, but the 1957 Ford four-door hardtop prototype was so flimsy they had to tie the two rear doors together via the inside door handles to keep them from popping open on the test track. I also read the 1960 Ford had a problem with a very narrow trunk opening and a shallow trunk due to its imitation 1959 Chevrolet rear styling.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2010
    What's even weirder is the fact the 1957 Plymouth is really shorter than the 1956 Plymouth which looks kind of stubby next to it.

    Heck, it doesn't get any bigger than the 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille I used to drive. That car dwarfed the Brougham.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It's possible that, seeing how flimsy the prototype was, that the body was strengthend some in the production models. Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, the '57 and '58 Fords certainly weren't paragons of structural rigidity. It would be interesting to know whether the Fords were flimsier than the '57-'59 Mopar 4-door hardtops, since they were also flimsy.

    Yeah, those horizontal fins really compromised the trunk opening of the '60 Fords, but was the opening narrower than, say, the '59 and '60 large Chevy's, or the '61 Plymouth?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    t's possible that, seeing how flimsy the prototype was, that the body was strengthend some in the production models. Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, the '57 and '58 Fords certainly weren't paragons of structural rigidity.

    Ford was aware enough of the problems with the '57 models that they did beef up the '58's, and in some oddball ways. For instance, the fake hood scoop, and the creases in the roof, were done to help make the car more rigid. I think the '58 also had a higher trunk lip, which would have helped with rigidity as well.

    By 1959, I think the Ford was pretty solid. Unless it's just that heavy, blocky styling that gives it the illusion of being solid?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2010
    I wondered the same thing about the '59s. They looked more solid than the two preceding years' models, but I suppose we'll never know how much was perception vs. reality. The '59s looked more solid than the '60s to me too, but, again, who knows whether they really were. We know that, many times, looks can be deceiving.

    People would have probably been affraid to drive the cars of this period if they had known how flimsy they were, and how much safer they could have been, even with the technology of the time.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    Heck, it doesn't get any bigger than the 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille I used to drive. That car dwarfed the Brougham.

    Just for the heck of it I looked it up and your 75 was 231 inches long. I was suprised that my 79 Continental was actually 233. No wonder everything I drive now seems small.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    dang. that is 3 feet longer than my barge of an odyssey "mini" van!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    edited September 2010
    Yep... I needed a barge at the time as I was traveling from South Jersey to the King of Prussia area via the Surekill Expressway. That car got hit a few times in the back and no one would have ever known.

    Very similar to mine, except mine had the turbine wheels (and dull paint)

    image

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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    What do you think of this one? It's in your neck of the woods, I believe:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1950630894.html

    Just curious - since R-18s are typical 80s-styled cars what is the parts availability like for one?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    That one in the pic is a great color, and I like those Turbine wheels you were talking about. You sure didn't see too many "Town Coupe" models (that's cou-pay!)

    I always thought that iteration looked like a battering ram though...slab sides, blunt in front, blunt in back!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Just for the heck of it I looked it up and your 75 was 231 inches long. I was suprised that my 79 Continental was actually 233. No wonder everything I drive now seems small.

    No kidding, a current Suburban is only like 220" long.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Parts for a Renault 18? What parts?

    Looks like about a $750 car to me. You know, the kind you buy, and drive, and when something breaks, you abandon it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I'm not positive, but I think around 1974-76, once the big bumpers were in full effect, that the Electra and Ninety-Eight might have been marginally longer than the DeVille, as well. Maybe something like 231.5 or 232 inches?

    I'm also surprised that Chrysler eventually got the New Yorker stretched to 231" by 1978, considering it was on a relatively short 124" wheelbase.

    The biggest car I ever had was a 1969 Pontiac Bonneville. 225" long, and riding a 125" wheelbase.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    edited September 2010
    I'd love to go down to the local Autozone/Napa etc and try to get an alternator/brake pads/oil filter etc for that thing. Project car hell.

    That being said, I kinda like it, but only because almost none remain on the road. Price is high as it looks fairly worn...I'd be more in line with what Shifty says.

    Today I saw something similar, Peugeot 505 wagon, the final run of cars with flush lights, probably 1988-89.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    and I like those Turbine wheels you were talking about

    IMO those cars looked best with the turbines. The 80s TCs, CVs, and Grand Marqs as well. Ford used the turbine wheel for a long time (late 70s through 91).

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    considering it was on a relatively short 124" wheelbase.

    Yes and its all in the trunk, the rear overhang on those is huge.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    reminds me of my worst nightmare, back in the old bomber days (while in school). Instead of the tractor simple 6 scyl stick domestic iron, I get enticed by a european road machine. And when on a paupers budget, not a good thing.

    the car was an Opel Manta. actually pretty straightforward and simple. No AC, PS, stick. should be easy care.

    but, the idiot I was, I got a 1975 model. As in, the last year. and the only year it was FI. Oops.

    needed a water pump. up to 74, cheap and easy to find (maybe $25, in ~1982). But the '75 was unique, and about $70 instead (but at least available).

    THen it developed a nasty flooding problem on a cold start. replaced a lot of fouled plugs on that baby, and this is while I was in upstate armpit NY at school. In the winter. And in 1982, no one knew what the heck to do with it.

    so, found 1 place that claimed to handle FI and imports. Decided it needed a new computer. Forget the price, but I had to call a mail order place that specialzed in Opels (or at least handled them). Like a moss motors, if not them.

    turns out, there was 1 unit. In the entire USA, only 1. And I think it cost more than the car. Ended up paying a couple $100 for a "rebuild", which as best as I can recall, consisted of taking my money and nothing else.

    after some more new plugs, I got it home (NYC area), and took it to the Buick (and Opel!) dealer. Turned out to only need a cold start sensor of some kind. Ran fine after that, but I dumped it before I went back to school.

    Pretty sure that one came in between the gremlin and the Hornet hatchback. After the hornet, for senior year, I got a '75 Corolla (R-5 model? T-5? something 5, but it had a 5 speed). Ah, reliable luxury, and 32 MPG after a carb rebuild (kit was ~$14, and $40 labor!)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    actually, that had a quirk too. It was a stick shift car (or course), but apparantly it was originally a column shift, converted to floor shift.

    but, somehow the linkage was still there, so when you shifted a sleeve on the column (where a column sift would normally be) rotated.

    interested, except when the whole linkage jammed and it had to get towed to get untangled!

    I assume ti was for that conversion reason, since I could never figure out any other reason it would happen (the sleeve moving). But I suppose it could have been something else.

    but, at least it ran, and parts were cheap.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Pretty sure that one came in between the gremlin and the Hornet hatchback. After the hornet, for senior year, I got a '75 Corolla (R-5 model? T-5? something 5, but it had a 5 speed).

    SR-5? I think that was the "sporty" model designation for the Corolla back in the 80's. Which hatchback style was it? There were two available .. one with a long roof, one with a short roof.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    but, somehow the linkage was still there, so when you shifted a sleeve on the column (where a column sift would normally be) rotated.

    Our '73 Nova with factory 3-speed floor shift did this too. I only remember seeing the sleeve on the column move when Dad put it in reverse.
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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    Back in 1970, our next door neighbor had one of those. Of course it was a 1970 model. He and his wife went on a trip for a few weeks and he gave me the keys to start it once a week.
    Our family had much more average vehicles, so sitting in that big Conny and getting to start it was a big thrill to a 14 year old. It even had a plaque on the dashboard, 'Built for xxx yyy'! Of course all I did was start it, never moved it.
    A couple of years later my dad had a used car license and we always had a car or two in the driveway that was going to flip. When I could find the keys, I would take some of them out for an unauthorized test drive.
    One time he brought home a Dodge Demon. Same as a Plymouth Duster with a 340 in it.
    When i found the keys to that I could not wait to take it for a spin.
    As soon as I got it off my street onto a faster road, it started vibrating like crazy, so I brought it straight back home.
    Turns out he had loosened some lug nuts on one of the wheels.
    After that, I didn't take that car or any others out without permission.
    Who knew what other tricks he had up his sleeve? :blush:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One good Dad trick was to put the coil wire into one of the spark plug towers on the distributor cap, and then put the spark plug wire into the coil tower. So if you tried to start the car, one spark plug would fire, giving you the sense that....maybe...the car would start....but of course it wouldn't. The most diabolical aspect of this trick of course was that when you lifted the hood, it would take a very sharp eye indeed to spot the switched wires.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    why the heck would the steering column sleeve rotate when you put it in reverse? I always did think it was odd tht someone would A) convert a hornet, and B) somehow keep it routed through the column!

    I think the Corolla was an E-5 model. It was not an SR5, I would have remembered that , always wanting one!

    this was a standard 2 door hardtop, pretty base car, but the big news was the 5 speed instead of 4 speed stick. And it actually had AC, but it didn't actually work, and I never bothered to try and fix it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited September 2010
    why the heck would the steering column sleeve rotate when you put it in reverse?

    That sounds like a GM steering column/transmission interlock device at work. Whenever the steering wheel lock was first used (1969?) the only way the ignition key could be turned all the way off to lock the steering wheel was if an automatic trans was in PARK or a manual trans was in REVERSE.

    I'm guessing that started in '69 because that's the way my brother's '69 Impala worked but I don't remember my dad's '68 Impala dealer-rental having that feature. Long time ago, tho.

    Anyway, I thought the "column shift" and "floor shift" factory built cars back then used different steering columns. So maybe the Nova was a column shifter converted to floor shift at some point?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    So maybe the Nova was a column shifter converted to floor shift at some point?

    Nope, we bought it new. The floor shifter was a $26.00 option.

    The ignition interlock started with the '69 model year.
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  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    This isn't really obscure but I figured I would put it up here for you to see:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110582707114&viewi- tem=

    One word to describe that Volvo: Astounding. I thought the vast majority of these cars were (and are) so well-used up by now. The new owner should really just drive it.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,336
    someone paid over 16K for a 4 door 240? was there a case of beer involved?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    That's just CRAZY. I could understand $3 or 4k, but good grief... it has an orange, plastic dashboard!

    1990 was also in the era of the motorized, automatic seatbelts. Was Volvo afflicted with those?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The father of an ex-girlfriend of mine had two of those Volvo 240s: a 1986 model and a 1989 model. He was always raving about what great cars they were.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Insane money, approaching what it cost new. It's nice, but lunacy.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Actually, Volvo never saw fit to build their cars with motorized automatic seat belts, thank God. In 1990 all their model lines were outfitted with driver's-side airbags.

    In 1987, they became one of the first manufacturers to offer driver's airbags in cars destined for the U.S. - the feature was standard in all 760s and 780s, and was optional on the 740 Turbo. Remember, in '87 none of the American or Japanese manufacturers even had airbags so this was a breakthrough from a manufacturer known for building extremely safe vehicles. 4-wheel disc brakes were also standard on all Volvos - again, not seen on your average Chevy Chevette or Ford Escort.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Lemko, just curious - if you ever rode in either of those Volvo 240s, what did you think of them in comparison to your Buicks or Cadillacs?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,860
    Were the 240's the ones whose headlights looked like airport landing lights? :)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >In 1987, they became one of the first manufacturers to offer driver's airbags

    Hmmmm. GM offered air bags in the 1975 era. Isn't that long before 1987? Volvo wasn't the first. ;)

    "The 1974-76 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight (as well as the 74-76 Olds Delta 88, Olds Toronado, Buick LeSabre and Buick Electra Park Avenue) were among the first US production cars to offer an air bag option beginning in 1974. Very few cars were so equipped. The high cost ($700) plus public uncertainty about the yet-to-be proven safety systems that are now universal in today's automobiles saw quite handily to that."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    Sometimes when I had trouble sleeping, I would ask to borrow a friend's Volvo 240 for an hour. :P

    My two cents from experience:

    Pros:
    Great heaters, indestructible front end suspension, well-built chassis, reliable engines (not so much the turbos), very easy to work on, roomy and comfortable, excellent visibility, long-lived, perfect 1st car for a teenager.

    Cons:
    Interiors broke apart, leather substandard, paint substandard, exhaust systems fell off, clumsy and joyless to drive, anemic performance, clunky transmissions.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    There was also a rare airbag equipped Impala in 1973, strangely enough a surviving example Was used as Kramer's car in "Seinfeld"

    GM offered bags but dropped them, a few years later MB put them (along with ABS) into massive scale production, and the rest is history.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    GM offered air bags in the 1975 era.

    I think I remember seeing a 75 Eldorado on Ebay a while back with an airbag. They also had a very basic anti-lock braking system available for the rear wheels.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    Wow...a 37 year old airbag...that'd be like finding a World War II artillery shell...will it go off or won't it?

    There was a lot of resistance initially to air bags---from the school of wisdom that assured us that "it was safer to be thrown from the car in a crash--so you don't get trapped inside". :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Interesting point about the Impala.

    The Oldsmobile airbags weren't accepted well by the public. The safety pressures from the Gov'mt helped push that way in the next decade. The idea of an explosion in front of their face bothers buyers at the time.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Reminds me of the arguments against closed cars back in the teens...you'll get cut up by all of that glass in a crash :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    It's funny how some slowly develop tech and abandon it, and others refine it and run with it and make a name with it. IIRC Chrysler had some kind of primitive ABS system in the early 70s too. But everyone thinks of the Germans for airbags and ABS, as the production numbers were so much larger.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There was even a major argument, that most people believed, that 4-wheel brakes were dangerous and that the car would tip over front-wards. (!!)

    Actually, until safety glass was installed in cars, that argument about being cut to pieces did have some merit. Imagine a plate-glass windshield and two-wheel cable operated brakes!!
  • wevkwevk Member Posts: 179
    I knew a guy who would when someone parked their car in his numbered apartment parking space, would "pop" the hood and mix up the spark plug wires. Were talking 1960 cars before inside hood releases. They had a heck of a time figuring out the problem!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,414
    Safety glass didn't come around until the 20s, right?

    I think I remember that glass bit from an old Floyd Clymer book I had when I was a kid...the Model T book I think. Those books really got me into old cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes I think Henry Ford introduced safety glass IIRC.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    IIRC, didn't the Chevies with airbags actually use Oldsmobile dashboards? I think the Olds and Cadillac dashboards were designed with airbags in mind, but not the Chevy. Did Pontiac ever offer airbags? I've seen an old photo of a 1969 Catalina prototype with an airbag going off, but I'm certain it never made it to production.

    Also, I can't remember if the Buicks offered airbags. The redesigned 1975-76 dash looked like it was designed with airbags in mind.

    There was a 1974 Oldsmobile 98 4-door hardtop with an airbag that was used in "Smokey and the Bandit". It was dressed up as a Georgia State Police car, and towards the end of the movie, right after the Snowman crashed through the barricade with the two '67 Galaxies. A '77 LeMans ends up running into the wreckage, and then the Olds comes along and does sort of an angled t-bone on the LeMans.

    I'm sure they were hoping to get those airbags to go off, but all the impact did was smear the LeMans, while the 98 was hardly scratched. I read somewhere that years later, that 98 was wrecked in a crash test video, and the airbags shot off exactly as intended.

    About a year before Smokey and the Bandit, there was a Roger Corman movie called "Moving Violation" that was basically one big long car chase after another. As I recall, the plot involved a corrupt sheriff who was trying to blackmail the guy who played Grandpa Walton. The deputy wanted in on the take, but the Sheriff wouldn't share, so he killed the deputy. A hippie couple witnessed the murder, were spotted, and the sheriff tried to frame them.

    It was actually pretty good, in a 1970's low-budget chase movie sort of way. It also involved a scene where a 1974-ish Oldsmobile equipped with an airbag and dressed up as a police car hit a cinder block wall. This time, the deployment was successful.

    I'm impressed that those airbags were only a ~$300 option back in the 1970's. Often, a fancy radio or even an extra-cost paint color could cost that much! And, they were dual airbags...driver AND passenger.
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