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2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Regarding malaisey Birds, I will somewhat ashamedly admit that I don't mind the 77-79 style, it has a certain angular downsized late disco era panache.
Another problem is storage - we are lucky as we own a garage round the corner from our house but it is in a block of about a dozen, and a few nights ago someone broke in to a few neighbours garages. They didn't touch ours luckily but I am going to improve the security by fitting a proper bar lock gadget that stops the door being forced open - it involves cementing an anchorage into the concrete though so I've got my local builder coming to do that tomorrow morning and until then our Alfa is parked across the garage to secure it (and the one next to it where a 1952 Fiat 500c resides as that guy is away for a few days). He's lucky as no-one touched his garage either but he told me he has engine troubles so no doubt he will be off the road for a while anyway. It's always a problem with a garage remote from the house - I don't think people will break in to get the car - its just as likely they are looking for tools or all the crap people put in storage - one of the garages was used for storing furniture as someone who owns it is mid-divorce and she told me she lost some non-car stuff apparently.
Anyway when out and about this weekend I saw a couple of old cars - an Austin Allegro - in the original period ochre brown colour which is not very pretty, but still it looked in better shape than most cars from 1975.
Also saw a sixties VW camper, a Morris Minor which looked really ratty and a Ford Capri III which is quite tidy but has some damage on the rear.
Some time last week I saw a Humber Sceptre - the early version with the oval back lights - I've seen the car before but only when driving along so I've never had a close look at it.
Will see less old cars now for the next few months as winter approaches - once we salt the roads it becomes a problem but in London that isn't frequent so it is really just that the weather isn't always the best to enjoy a car with lousy heating and ventilation.
One thing I never understood about Ford...and I'm including T-Birds up through '71 or so, then '80 and later, was...they seemed to offer a lot of cars with buckets and console, but often paired a console with a column shift.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390683486216
I know you like 122s, more so than P1800s so I thought I'd send this one along. I recently got to drive a '68 122 and found that it was more fun to toss around than the '70 144 I drove last year.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
313K on it? Pretty nice for that miles. And while I know this might be the best example in the country, bids over 36K already? yowza.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm not sure how the '80-82 T-bird stacked up for interior room, though. I can't remember ever being in one, or a similar-vintage Cougar XR-7. The EPA lists them at only 93 cubic feet of passenger volume and an 18 cubic foot trunk, in comparison to 92/15 for the '83, so apparently the earlier Fox-based ones were still pretty small inside. In comparison, something like a Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, etc, was around 97/16, and the 1980-83 Dodge Mirada/Chrysler Cordoba were rated at 100/17.
I wish the EPA showed the interior volumes on earlier cars, but their online records only go back to 1978. Didn't the EPA start testing cars in 1975 though?
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
Back to the '86 Monte Carlo--I'm all for 'piano black' trim on the dash, like the '81 Malibu Classic had, but what they used on the '86 was a flatter black that didn't look nearly as nice I don't think. I hated how in '85 the glovebox knob and lock went from chrome-finish to black, also. I will say I did like the '87 and '88 CL interior--it was a loose-pillow look in velour (of course).
Decent driver condition, has spinner style hubcaps with 80s style raised letter tires:
Speaking of Toros, today I saw the white XS that I see a few times a year in my area.
Well, the Pancho is just a big car. That era toro was a monstrosity of a tank. I had no problem driving a 26'box Frieghtliner ryder truck in traffic, and it would terrify me trying to maneuver that Olds. Just way too much hood I guess.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My fintail is parked in a spot like the Pontiac, apparently with a stuck parking brake.
Stickguy mentioned the hood on the Toronado--the Bonnevilles of the early '60's actually seemed to have short-hood/long-deck styling, which seems a tad weird to me now. I love the interiors though, and think the '65-68 Bonnevilles are gorgeous in and out. Not a fan of the big Bonneville 'flying saucer' emblem which is on the front fenders of the car in the pic...glad they dropped that for '66.
I guess the biggest losers in that '78 downsizing were the "aeroback" Century and Cutlass Salon sedans and coupes. Those things were very poor sellers. Thankfully GM saw fit to revise the rooflines of the sedans for 1980, which revived sales. Century Cutlass Salon coupe sales were so non-existent though, that they simply let those die off after 1980.
My favorite downsized personal luxury coupe from that dark era is the 1980 Cordoba/Mirada. I thought those had very nice lines overall, and I actually prefer them, slightly, to the 1979 Cordoba/Magnum. Chrysler's cars were the least-downsized, though. The 1979's were on a 115" wb and around 215" long, while the 1980-83 were on a 112.7" wb and around 209-210" long.
In comparison, I think the T-bird went from around 114" wb and 215" length to around 108.4" wb and 202" long. I believe the Monte Carlo/Grand Prix went from a 116" wb and around 215" long, to 108.1" and around 200-202. The Cutlass Supreme and Regal had been on a slightly shorter 112" wb and I think were around 208" long, and the downsizing put them to the same size as the Monte/Grand Prix.
I often wondered if a BMW 6 cylinder motor would fit in one of those.
I think there actually was an episode or two where they referred to the car as a Buick.
My friend with the 83 and 85 Monte Carlos would say his 83 was a car that Peggy Hill would drive.
Heck Stick, you just gotta go back to the day. A couple of martini's and a cigar - no problem!
Believe it or not, that '64 Bonneville and early 70's Toronado are very close in size. The Bonneville is on a 123" wheelbase, and 220" long. The Toro is on a 122" wb, and around 220-221" long.
The Toronado is mostly hood though, so that might make it a bit more intimidating than the Bonneville to drive. But it would probably handle better, thanks to a more modern suspension, quicker steering, smaller steering wheel, disc brakes, larger radial tires, etc.
I know Hank drove a Ranger. I remember one time they showed him crossing into Arkansas, where the sign said "Home of President Bill Clinton". They then showed Hank hitting the power door lock button on the inner door panel of the Ranger! LOL
I think I watched too much TV
In '80 when GM grafted quad headlights on those front ends that previously had duals I didn't think any of them came off very well, but again preferred the Regal.
For '81 and up I liked the Cutlass best, with the Regal a close second.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I had forgotten that the Regal went to quads for '80 as well as the Cutlass and Monte. Had to google some pics to refresh my memory. And yeah, I agree, it's about the most tasteful of the bunch. Actually, I think it's a slight improvement over 1978-79. As for the Cutlass, I don't mind either way. I think the Monte is a step down, but I think part of the problem is that eggcrate grille they went to the same year.
Did Peggy ever get a new car, or did she keep that Buick til the end?
I also remember Hank's father, or was it Peggy's, who drove an '86-90 style Eldorado?
I could still like an '87 or '88 LS, with the checkerboard aluminum wheels, two-tone light and dark maroon, with dark maroon CL interior.
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It was a two-tone gray over silver, with a burgundy cloth (mouse-fur?) interior. I seem to remember the trim on the dash was black plastic. It had the 150 hp 305-4bbl and a nice stereo with a 5-band equalizer, but wasn't all that ritzy, otherwise. Crank windows, manual locks and seat, hubcaps. Still, it was a pretty nice car. I think Mom paid around $14,000 for it. She also got it toward the end of the model year in 1986. Part of her reason for getting it was that I had my learner's permit, license would be coming soon, and she was going to give me her 1980 Malibu coupe.
Initially, Mom wanted a Pontiac Grand Am or something similar, and my stepdad was pushing for something small-ish and FWD. But Granddad talked her into the Monte Carlo, saying that it would be more reliable, and it would be easier for him to work on. I'm glad Mom listened to her Dad! Otherwise, 12 years later, I might have been getting a beat-up 4-cyl Grand Am handed down to me, presuming it was still running. And it would have been that car I got t-boned in, rather than the bigger, heavier Monte.
I remember when I bought my '81 Monte Carlo, I looked at the Grand Prix brochure and was surprised that 'poverty caps' were standard on the Grand Prix. The Monte gave you full wheelcovers and an electric clock standard. I'm thinking the clock was optional on the Grand Prix too. But, the dash was way better on the Grand Prix I think.
I remember looking at my first '78 Grand Prix stuck out back of the Pontiac-Olds dealer in Clarion, PA, where I went to college. I was pretty shocked at it too. They really took the '78's farther than they took the full-sizes in '77 I think.
I had reconsidered taking that car back up to greater Cleveland for good at the end of that summer, since my '81 was stolen there and never recovered, and my '82 was broken into but not stolen.
I went back and said I wanted my deposit back. In the meantime, they had sold the actual car I put a deposit on and had gotten the same car from a dealer in Alabama. I told them it wasn't like I was sticking them with a Citation; they'd sell it shortly. I also said that wasn't the car I put the deposit on. I got the deposit back and three months later ordered a Celebrity Eurosport (about $4K cheaper) at a dealer across town--Timmers Chevrolet in Norcross, GA.
The V-6 Monte replaced a '74 Impala coupe (can't remember if it was the hardtop or stationary-window) with a 400, so I imagine it was a bit of a culture shock. I don't remember the V-6 very well, but its V-8 replacement was white with a dark blue velour interior, and really nice.
I forget what she got after the second Monte was wrecked, but the last two cars she had were a burgundy 2001 Intrepid, that she didn't keep for long because it messed up her beehive hairdo, and then an '00-05 style Impala. She gave up driving a few years ago, and her daughter still has the Impala.
I drove it once, on a summer evening with the t-tops off. It has an aftermarket exhaust, and sounds pretty good, but the handling was really vague to me even compared to a MB sedan. I drove the 83 once, it was really odd for me, numb steering and brakes. I haven't driven a big old American car for a long time.
That reminds me of our family's experience. Dad was driving his '75 Hornet Sportabout and wanted a new wagon in the fall of '77 for some reason. I don't think he was ever in love with the AMC, and he had long been a GM man. Mid-70s he went astray for a few years, first buying our '74 Maverick LDO, then the Hornet.
I remember we went car shopping just before introduction day in the fall of '77. We drove a Dodge Aspen SE wagon, which was nice enough but I remember it feeling nose-heavy, and they were not thrilled with it for some reason. Then we went to the Ford dealer to look at the new Fairmont wagon, but they had none available yet. We found a '77 LTD II wagon there and that drove nice enough, but was a bit big, and I remember the driver's floor under the brake pedal area oilcanned when I pushed on it.
He then went to the Pontiac dealer, who didn't have their '78 inventory yet. But the sales manager showed him the brochures for the downsized '78s, and i had read the long-lead stories in the car magazines that were very positive. He bought, sight unseen, a '78 Grand Lemans wagon in white with a red vinyl interior. When it arrived it looked really nice, but I think it must have been a pilot car or something, since it had all kinds of things that didn't fit right or work right, and had terrible build quality. But it drove nicely and until the rear tailgate/hatch started to rattle like crazy, was smooth and quiet. I thought the wagons looked the best of those downsized intermediates, and the Pontiac had that unique dash and nice styling.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
When new, the Monte SS was stiffer, but in hindsight I don't like the cheesy graphics on those cars now--inside or out. Look online in 'oldcarbrochures.com' at a '70 or '71 Monte Carlo SS, and all it had was subtle "SS454" emblems at the bottom of the front fenders and a black panel between the taillights. Now that was classy IMHO.
I will say that when the '83 Monte Carlo SS came out, it was somewhat novel to have a H.O. V8 in a GM family car (so to speak). I think that's one reason they seemed so popular for awhile.
I remember when I was in school, there was a maybe 87 or so aero model with the checkerboard style wheels, that my friend really liked. There was also another similar late car in town with those wheels, and t-tops. Don't see any of those around anymore.
Cheesy graphics are really a 70s-80s thing that come back for some cars.
It was actually a nice car in many respects. Handling seemed decent, nice interior, adequate room, performance not bad considering it was a 120 hp 3.8 V-6 and, IIRC, just a 3-speed automatic. But, I still preferred my 1980 Malibu coupe, which just had more of a bigger-car feel.
That LTD was upgraded considerably from what a Fairmont would have been, so I imagine the Fairmont's compact roots must have really shown through!
I think your "small big car" versus "big small car" is a good analogy.
My 1982 Cutlass Supreme, the same essential car as a Monte, just had a 231 V-6 so yeah, I can vouch, these cars really need a V-8. And a ~5 liter V-8, not those 260/265/267's they were pushing for a few years.
My Mom's '86 with the 150 hp 305 and 4-speed automatic was a fairly well-balanced car. 0-60 seemed to come up in about 10 seconds. And fuel economy was usually around 15 local, maybe 22 or so on the highway. About what the Cutlass had been. Or my old 1980 Malibu, which had the Chevy 229 V-6...a bit more hp than the 231, but less torque.
I always thought it was interesting though that my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, a considerably larger, heavier car, got about the same economy with its 307 and 4-speed automatic. Around 15 local (got it down to around 14 once when I delivered pizzas with it), and lower 20's on the highway. It got better highway economy when it was newer, but it was getting old by the time it was handed down to me.
You don't have to picture it... here is the pic from the brochure that sold him:
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6