I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Not problematic per se, obsolete is what I said. Obsolete and 25 years old and in a car you can buy cheap to begin with (that is, poorly maintained you can be sure). Personally , I wouldn't touch one that wasn't cherry and running well. I mean let's say you need new injectors and air flow meter (common issues on this car). That's $500 in parts alone on a $2,500 car. Then you have the diff mount that likes to break and replacing rear struts can be a bear on that car. Well... all used cars have their issues is my point.

The 260Z was problematic from the get-go. That's a car you'll need to re-engineer to make it right.
I hear putting on the earlier 240Z carbs works well, but you'll slam into emissions problems in California if you do that.

andys120 · September 2004

1970ish Pontiac Ventura hatchback that had been debaged and painted a nice glossy black, except for trick wheels it looked otherwise stock.

It looked nicer than I remember those looking.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

what's "debaged" mean? Old KFC debris?

kyfdx · September 2004

Debadged...

I'm sorry I missed the maintenance chat the other day.. How did that go?

andys120 · September 2004

Geez, you can't get a typo past this group! I meant "debadged" wise guys.

I saw a nice Audi S8, does that count as obscure?
This was the performance version of the often over-looked prior generation A8, quite a nice car.

kyfdx · September 2004

Hey!! Me, too... Earlier this week.. I forgot. REALLY nice.. stealth fighter..

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

The "Fix-It" chat was really fun. Lots of people showed up and the questions were pretty interesting. Best exchange was when someone asked if it was good advice they received to "put brake fluid on your CV joint boots to preserve them".

fintail · September 2004

bahahah

I saw a c.1969 Ford Cortina today, in a dark blue and it looked very mint. I wanted to get a pic, but I was going too fast. Maybe I'll see it around.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Ah, that was a MkII. The MkIs are more interesting cars I think.

fintail · September 2004

Yeah me too. This one was really nice looking though, obviously renovated in some way. I wonder if they rust and get electronic gremlins like any other old Brit car

andre1969 · September 2004

but yesterday I saw a brand new 300. This one was "special", though. I didn't get close enough to see the trim level, but I could think of a few that would apply. Like, maybe "300 St. Regis", "300 5th Avenue Edition", "300 CMX", or something equally pimpy. Why? Because this one had a carriage roof! I know these things are out there, but this was the first time I saw one in person. All I can say is MUY HIDEOSO!! It was cool vanilla with a dark blue top...looked like the same kind of fabric you might see on a Sebring convertible roof.

I knew it was bound to happen, but WHY?!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Dealers can't pass up the temptation to offer it as a special package and make a tidy profit on it.
Chrysler design department is apparently going nuts over this and trying to stop it, but legally I rather doubt they have any grounds to do so. But then I haven't read a factory/dealer contract lately so maybe there is a way.

fintail · September 2004

Lack of taste isn't illegal, unfortunately. If it was, Hummer wouldn't be around, and SUVs would have obesity laws. Junky sheet metal spoilers on tinny old econocars with no legit performance mods would also warrant a hefty fine.

Ebay time:

German Corvair of sorts

Perhaps the best one left? "Best" is used loosely

It's pretty, but seems really expensive

I've always liked the style of these, but geez, it can't be that hard to get a proper rear bumper

A once proud marque that vanished off the face of the Earth at the snap of a finger

This is really nice, more suited for ENGLAND, but the price is hilarious.

Nice looking car, but an example of the wrong way to present pics

These are neat looking, this is nicer than most

You'll be the only one

I somehow get a feeling there is tons wrong with this car

Never seen a Citroen this modern in NA

Affordable Andre-mobile

This is neat, but is it that hard to wheel the car outside and get some semi-decent pics?

Not really obscure, but it's identical in model and color combination to my 126. This one has some really healthy bidding, as it looks exceptional. Mine is almost as nice, and it has more than 3x the mileage.

kyfdx · September 2004

'70 Chevelle SS.. obviously restored.. yellow paint with dual black stripes and a black vinyl roof.. very nice.

Late '70s Regal.. with a new lemon-lime metallic paint job and a white vinyl landau roof.. riding on 24" wheels and low profile tires.. or maybe riding above it.. Looks like it had a lift kit, just to get it to clear the wheels.. Rode about as high as a stock full-size pickup truck. Very strange, but someone put a lot of work into it.. Looked very unstable when it passed me at 80 MPH. Like it still needed the suspension sorted out.

And a ratty looking Peugeot 505.

kyfdx · September 2004

That Sunbeam Tiger is a little pricy, but I bet he has more than that into it.. At least it made reserve..

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

V-16 MARMON: Neat old car but with a 40 year old paint job and 4-doors, the last bid of $39K is awfully close to market value. If his reserve is too much higher than this, he's going to be buying that car a birthday cake every year until he's in his grave. It's not a car that's going to get more valuable over time, at least not appreciably. Yes, a show car can bring $80K but guess how much it takes to get there?

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59 DESOTO: Well, here's your tip-off, this statement:

"This is a FRAME OFF REFURB. Car is 98% original."

That makes no sense whatsoever. My motto is "loose with words, loose with the truth".

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'52 RILEY -- I wonder how long it will take Riley owners to realize that nobody in America much cares how "rare" Rileys are, because the rarity has to do with the fact than nobody in America every wanted one. This car, with its needs (owner says, optimistically--->"Body: looks good, but this is a project car on the body because it needs some work only, only, only, with the body,")

....is bid to $5K which is just about all it's really worth. That is market correct at the moment, perhaps even generous-- any further bid is money lost forever I fear.

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1938 Wolseley -- well, neat old car and possibly worth the opening bid---NAH, I take that back---but regardless, the seller blew it. Another "it's rare but we don't care" type of car, a rather stodgey middle class British car built for utilitarian purposes. A British Buick at best. They love to crack their blocks, too, and I'd be amazed if this one isn't suffering that. I think what I'd do with this car is buy it cheap, take the engine out and put it in an MG SA, WA or VA Tickford bodied roadster (they used the identical engine) that needed a powerplant (most do), and then ROD the Wollseley and make a real car out of it....tastefully of course. Otherwise it's rather doomed, as soon as it deteriorates further, since restoraton costs will easily exceed value. But that's just me! I don't see how one could commit sacrilege on something that nobody wants anyway.

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1965 Peugeot 404 Cabriolet --Egad, yet another Puegeot nut who thinks he's sitting on a gold mine. An opening bid of $9K and it isn't ENUF for reserve??!!! ARE YOU NUTS MAN??? Given the mods, this opening bid is more than fair retail. I thought the comparisons to Ferrari and Lancia were pretty funny, too. God help us.
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lemko · September 2004

That is pretty gross, but the 300's roofline probably pulls it off better than others. Last night I saw a previous generation Chevrolet Malibu with a carriage roof. Not only was it ugly, but bizarre. It had lettering embroidered on the C pillar "Caliente." Now, what does an early '60s Mercury Comet variant have to do with Chevrolet?

This coming Sunday, September 26th, is the Valley Forge Region Cadillac-LaSalle Club Fall Meet in Lahaska, PA. It's a rather small show, (nowhere remotely near the size of Macungie or Carlisle) but some very interesting Cadillac and LaSalle automobiles are always there. One year we met with the Professional Car Society with their limos, hearses, and ambulances. The best times to get there are between 10 AM and 2 PM. It breaks-up around three. I should be there with my 1989 Cadillac Brougham, (weather permitting of course).

fintail · September 2004

I was puttin around ebay.de and found a couple of oddballs. There's a lot of weird stuff there simply in that it is all non-NA market. So many Wartburgs, NSUs, and Goggos. But here's a couple others:

Can't be many left this nice...esp. with a vinyl roof

Buy 3 neat Lancias at once

fintail · September 2004

Wow...

andys120 · September 2004

Olds 4-4-2 convertible, ca. '64-'65. This was dark green with a badly faded tan top and slighly lumpy body work. IOW in need of some TLC.

Porsche 914-4, the original VoPo in orangish red (or was it reddish-orange), an early model with stamped steel wheels ('70-'71?).
This one had good gloss to the paint and looked good-to-go.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Best 914s are the 2.0 liter models. Very fun car for not a lot of money. The 914, 944 and 928 are bargains right now but you have to shop carefully! You can score mint examples under $6,000 on each of those.

Anyone read the new Hemmings publication on Classic Cars (replaces Special Interest Auto)?

Pretty well done (a companion to Hemmings Muscle Machines, also well done). I did spot a bunch of historical errors though and some confusing language--they need to tighten up the editing, definitely.

Best part is that they do road tests and give you an idea of what it's like to drive some of these older cars---mostly American stuff. Also a good article on how to evaluate a car for possible restoration, with lots of photos. Some of the cars they featured though for possible restoration I thought were a bit reckless to take on. But I guess if you have time and need a hobby and can devote 5 years of your life to a project, it's probably cheaper than going to a shrink.

My favorite line was from a guy who runs the AMC Pacers Owners' Club. Obviously a real good sport when he said: "It's better to be ridiculed than not talked about at all".

wimsey1 · September 2004

'64 Impala convert, nice, white top, red

AMC Alliance-4 sale $800, about $900 over market?

kyfdx · September 2004

I think you hit the Alliance on the nose.. You'd have to pay someone $100 to take it away..

jrosasmc · September 2004

Oh yeah: Shifty (and all others here), if you get a chance, pick up the October issue of "Hemmings Muscle Machines." In it is an article about a '70 Plymouth 'Cuda 440-6 Pack with no options- that car was my neighbor's. I was there when he restored it and I was also there when he sold it for $51k three months ago. I think you will find the article very interesting.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

I did read that. Interesting that he sold it. When I read the article it sounded like he wasn't happy with the way the car drove. He did a nice job, though.

jrosasmc · September 2004

Oh yeah...Tim (my neighbor) told me that the 'Cuda had a lot of slop in the steering- that is, it needs a lot of small corrections at highway speeds just to keep it in a straight line. Did all American cars have that poor steering characteristic during that time period?

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

I think it depends a lot on the tires you are using and how you drive the car.

alfox · September 2004

aren't exactly like that. I used to own Buicks, '65 through '91, and with the old bias ply tires they held a straight line pretty well. In fact, they didn't like to turn much at all - they just liked to roll straight, no matter what I wanted them to do.

When radials came out in about '72 I put a set of BFG's on my '65 Buick Special wagon, and it was all over the road. Seems that the tires could transmit driver instructions much more accutely than the old bias jobs, and the car would try to do whatever you told it, but was unable. I was working at BFG and we got lots of "comments" about how much steering input was required with radials.

It took several years for the auto manufacturers to start tuning the suspension and steering gear for radials. My '91 was fine with radials; GM had tuned it back to the old track-straight-ahead handling.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

If you put radials on an old car you can't grip the wheel too tight like you would a 2004 car. You need to let the wheel sort of jiggle around in your hands.

andre1969 · September 2004

that I got to experience with both radials and bias-ply tires was my '69 Dart GT. It had bias-plys when I bought it...for some reason "FR78-14" is sticking in my mind? When I put some 205/70/R-14's on it, it made a world of difference in handling. One thing I remembered in particular about the old bias plys is when you came to a bridge or overpass on the interstate (you know, the ones where they have the signs that say "open joints on bridge" and show an icon of a guy flying off a motorcycle), if I caught one of those joints, that car wanted to go all over the road! Didn't seem to matter with the radials.

I'm sure my '67 Catalina had bias-ply on it when it was new, but when I bought it it had 215/75/R-14's. I don't know how it handled with bias ply, but it seems fine with radials...probably because I got used to it. Sometimes I hear a ticking noise from the rear tire, and my mechanic, years ago, told me that was because I had radials on it. Dunno if there's any truth to that or not, but he said it was making some kind of vibration that made the hubcap flex! And going along with that theory, my front right wheel has a tendency of losing hubcaps! It got to the point that I drive around with it off, and just put it on when I take it to car shows!

andys120 · September 2004

into putting Dunlop radials on his '68 Firebird 326 (whitewalls yet!). They really didn't make a lot of difference in the way the car drove but they did get twice the miles which was good cuz they cost half-again what bias-plies did.

I did notice a difference when I transitioned my TR-4A to Dunlop SPs (red stripes!). The steering was even sharper and the tires lasted 30000 miles.

andys120 · September 2004

so I thought I'd post this one here and forlornly hope that Alfa comes back to the USA and gives us the most beautiful Alfa Spider yet...

http://www.fast-zi-nation.de/

(click on link below small pic of Alfa @ top of page)

That one spins my flywheel, how about yours?

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

I'd have to see it in real life. In 2D it looks uncomfortably like 7/8th of a Prowler.

andyman73 · September 2004

I wonder if power steering made a difference in the way the older vehicles drove. You always had to be making small corrections in my dad's 78 Dodge Van w/o ps.

Saw a nice shiny red Ferrari 328 GTS, yesterday afternoon, sounded like mechanical heaven.

fintail · September 2004

What's with the price on this? Must be fake bids, seems a bit steep for a lowline fintail in unspectacular condition with some rust and nothing remarkable but that rare sunroof

merckx · September 2004

Although I've admired these nutty little French minis since I was a child,I don't believe I've ever seen one until yesterday. It was just bombin' down our surburban expressway here in va. beach,passing everyone like nobody's business...

jaserb · September 2004

on that Alfa. Or maybe I'm wrong and they really will produce a convertible with no frame on the top of the windshield.

Don't get me wrong - I think a convertible Brera would be very nice. But Alfa has always had different styling on their coupes and convertibles, so who knows if it will happen or not. Even if it does happen I've become pretty much resigned to the probability that Alfa won't be coming back here.

-Jason

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Couple reasons I think---the bids are probably European, and when you see the American dollar equivalent of a Euro bid, you are seeing how much stronger the Euro is than the dollar. They get 20% discounts on everything. So they are really spending 80% of that figure.

Secondly, it's a "hometown" car and they enjoy all the privileges of "old timer" status that we really can't relate to over here with a car like that.

Thirdly, most old cars in Germany have rusted away by now, so anything even remotely intact and original and street legal at this age is pretty rare.

lemko · September 2004

...a red Porsche 944 in really great condition. I remember some game show from the early '70s that gave away Porsche 914s as prizes. Anybody remember this show?

andys120 · September 2004

Agreed that a Spider windshield with no top frame
is unlikely but perhaps it will have a very thin piece at the top like the E-Type or 356 Speedster.

There already is current precedent for Coupe and Spider sharing the same styling, the current Europe-only versions of the Alfa GTV...

http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/gallery/alfa/gtv- .htm

The old Italian tradition of separate bodywork on Berlinettas and Spiders has gone by the boards as evidenced by current Maserati, Ferrari and Alfa models, probably because of crash worthiness rules.

jaserb · September 2004

on the current Alfa coupe and convertible models sharing the same styling. I guess they slipped my mind because they never made it here, and because I don't particularly like them. Overwrought styling and wrong wheel drive.

-Jason

andys120 · September 2004

unfortunately most if not all of the current Alfa lineup is fwd.

fintail · September 2004

Damn...if I could get a deal on shipping, I could sell fintails back to Germany and maybe make a small sum at it.

I can't think of many vehicles I'd want to crash less than a Renault 4

andyman73 · September 2004

I wouldn't mind it one bit, to drive one of those Puegot 306s or the little Citroens you see being thrashed on Speedvision(channel) coverage of the FIA WRC rally races. Providing they come with the turbo motors and such.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

Renault 4s were pretty good cars, I'm told by my French friends. Have to be better than 5s, and I don't think they made a 3.

I suppose you could ship fintails to Germany, but with shipping costs, insurance and the taxes they have to pay, it can't be all that lucrative.

Maybe if you sent 25 at a time or something.

ateixeira · September 2004

The Alfa 164 is handsome. They even make a wagon version.

-juice

Mr_Shiftright · September 2004

I'd like to see Alfa come back but not if they're just being set up for another failure. The cars will be dualled with Pontiacs or something and there's trouble right away. And what about marketing budget? Will they really spend $40-50 million a year to push the car? I kinda doubt it.

What I'd do is bring them in slowly, field test them, make them "hard to get", and develop a hunger for them and a good reputation.

ateixeira · September 2004

For a second there I thought you were talking about the Lotus Elise.

)

-juice

stickguy · September 2004

Sell them at SAAB dealers. At least they are used to quirky customers and not selling very many cars.

Alfas at a Pontiac dealer just gives me the willies.

kyfdx · September 2004

That is a good idea... I would think that would be the perfect place for them... I'd go test drive one....

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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