I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

lemko · November 2004

When I was in college back in the early-mid 1980s, there was a car dealer that had several of those beautiful Brougham coupes on the lot. The guy was really cool and would actually let me take one out for a spin once in a while. Good thing I didn't buy one upon graduating knowing something about that dreadful 4100 engine.

andys120 · November 2004

Is the Trabi the world's worst car? Maybe, it's certainly one of the crudest but it's easy to overlook the fact that it was first introduced in 1962. It had a rather advanced specification for a small European sedan.

West Germany's VW Beetle was the best selling subcompact in the world at that time. While it's build quality was high it offered potentially evil handling w it's swing axles and extreme rear engine placement.

By contrast, East Germany's Trabant offered benign handling with it's front-engine fwd set up, backed up by plastic bodywork and some had diesel power .

Sedans offering fwd were unusual in '62, limited to Mini variants, Citroens and Saabs.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

I'd have to divvy up the title of world's worst car among the Trabant, Chevrolet Vega and Maserati BiTurbo, all of which are actually somewhat interesting cars.

Oh, Nash Metropolitan is way up there, too.

andys120 · November 2004

Austin Marina? Triumph Mayflower? Hillman Minx? TR-7/8? all dismal, uninteresting, ugly and dishwater dull. There were plenty of others, by comparison a Metro (essentially a rebodied Austin), Vega and Trabi were cool.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Oh, yeah, the TR-7, that needed 3 headgaskets to stay running...thanks for the ...er...memories.

Hillmans were okay. Dull uninteresting cars but they ran. They were used as taxicabs in many former British colonies. So I'd let Hillman off the hook.

Austin Marina is a good candidate for worst-ness.

kyfdx · November 2004

No mention of the Yugo?

andys120 · November 2004

Isn't the Hindustan Ambassador based on an old Hillman? It's number one in India.

jrosasmc · November 2004

What made the Austin Marina so bad?

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

The Yugo was just a Fiat 128. Not a great car but not the worst. They ran well in Italy, but a truly BAD car won't even run in its own country.

I think the Austin Marina sort of epitomized in total the wretched state of the British auto industry at that time.

fintail · November 2004

I think the Trabi had severe durability issues no matter its sound design intentions.

I saw a gorgeous dark blue BMW Bavaria today in the pouring rain, period looking whitewalls and all. At least it looked gorgeous in the rain.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Kind of a toad of a car but some people like 'em.
Buy a 735i or 635i and a much happier man (or woman).

fintail · November 2004

I'd rather have a 2300/3.0 coupe or maybe an old baroque 502 sedan.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

3.0s are attractive cars, but the fuel-injected model is the one you want, not the carbs...no-no! They are still very reasonably priced, cheaper than a beat up American "collectible" in many cases.

fintail · November 2004

I'll believe that, I'm a fan of old FI systems. Just like in a 220S fintail vs a 220SE.

I like the old 6 series coupes too, but they are just a little modern for an old car for me.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Yes, I see your point about that. You like 'em square, obviously, so 50s or 60s 4-door BMWs appeal to you more.

merckx · November 2004

Thanks a lot for not including the Renault 5 among the Trabi and Vega!

fintail · November 2004

And period MB appeal to me more, of course. A 502 would be cool but I'd rather have an Adenauer.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

You'd better get rich. It's going to eat more than your 220SE.

fintail · November 2004

Most cars would. I haven't spend much on that fintail other than fluid changes in 3 years.

But the next old car will be a 300SE LWB fintail, unless something really cool and cheap comes my way first. Storage space is an issue for me, so I can't accumulate oldies.

kyfdx · November 2004

I had a '67 2000 coupe.. Not as attractive as the 2800's or 3.0's, but much cheaper.. It had a '69 engine with dual Webers...

It was a fun little car for less than half what a six cylinder would have cost me... It was amazing how good the handling and steering feel was for a car of that age... I owned it from '85-'90.

regards,
kyfdx

jrosasmc · November 2004

How are the 3.0Si sedans ('70s vintage) as BMWs in general? Are they collectible items now? I hear they're fun cars, when they work properly of course.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Troublesome and expensive. "Fun" is a relative term. More fun than driving a bread truck, less fun than a Ferrari. "Collectible" is also relative, as some people collect beer cans, so...

kyfdx · November 2004

They have zero collectibility.... like most sedans.. Really, even a nice one is about a $2K car..

If I was looking for a driver, I'd concentrate on late '70s, early '80s 528i... Those are pretty nice, and still super cheap, though maybe not as attractive as a Bavaria. And plenty of power.. A friend of mine had an '81, back in the mid-80s... One of my favorite cars.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · November 2004

what he said... lol

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

528i has a modicum of collectibility (that is, if you advertise one for a strong price, someone will actually call). Also 635i has some desirability, and are good cars. 528e, 735i are doomed, no chance of survival, 325s are common, 320i not very valuable either. Of course the 2002s will continue to be saved as long as they aren't too far gone. 1602 coupe is also worth saving but you rarely see them.

jrosasmc · November 2004

Shifty- You noted once that late '80s 735i's are probably the best sedans BMW turned out. To me the best Bimmers are probably the 1989-95 5-Series generation.

kyfdx · November 2004

Lots of problems the first two years of that model run.. '89 and '90... After that, pretty nice, but avoid the '95 530i.. That model had a small V-8 that had big problems... I saw two of those for sale last week in my local paper..

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Well "best" and "collectible" don't have any real relationship.

lemko · November 2004

...a beautiful 1987 Buick Grand National. This example was just about flawless. The black was deep, rich, and shiny. The interior looked brand new. The only things I could spot is a little paint chipped off the deck lid lock and some spots on the black chrome in the wheel slots.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Funny how tastes differ. I think that car is extremely unattractive....all chopped up, awkward, boxy. It's not accident they look good in black, it hides a lot.

But then, I like Fiat Topolinos.

andre1969 · November 2004

I think the Regal, Cutlass Supreme, and Grand Prix were just about the perfect evolution of the wedge look. The Monte was just a bit more curvy, and the front-end had a reverse-slant to it. But IMO, the lines and proportioning are perfect. The hood, passenger cabin, and decklid are just the right length.

The only thing I DON'T like about the Grand National carries over to all Regals and '78-81 Centurys. I just don't like the instrument display. Most of 'em just had a strip speedo with numbers that were too big, and a fuel gauge. The tach was a tiny thing, stuck on as an afterthought. At least Chevy, Pontiac, and Olds designed the dash display to accept full gauges properly!

Now a few similar cars, I DON'T like. For example, the '80-82 T-bird and Cougar XR-7 coupes. Now THOSE are a bit more awkward in proportioning. I think a lot of it comes because they're based on sedans, not coupes, which would have a more rakish windshield. And the '83 T-bird, while modern and aerodynamic, just looks too much like an upside-down bathtub. For '87-88 they put a bit more wedge into it, reducing the bathtub look. Although the Cougar started to become a caricature of itself by that time.

I also thought the '80-83 Cordoba/Mirada were beautiful cars. Sleek and low-slung which was a result of a low body coupled with a long overall length. Unfortunately, the end result was a car the size of a Caprice, but with the interior room of a Monte Carlo. Stylish, but not too space-efficient!

stickguy · November 2004

a friend in HS mom had a (iirc) '79 Gran Prix, whatever the "sporty" model was. Medium blue, no landau top, with mags of some kind (I think aftermarket). That was a nice car, and seemed powerful to me. Of course, my family had just switched from a '69 Volvo 144 to a '79 Omni at that time, so not really much to compare to. It did drive nice though. I do remember it had a small V8.

Some of the design iterations of that body style were awkward, but this particular one just came together nicely.

andre1969 · November 2004

but I think the sporty Grand Prix in the late 70's was called the SJ? IIRC, it was pretty common for them to have those Pontiac "honeycomb" rims. I think the top engine in the Grand Prix by that time was a 301-4bbl that put out maybe 155 hp...decent for the timeframe. The 301 was also a very lightweight engine, weighing about 125 lb less than a Chevy 305, so that might've helped out acceleration a bit, too.

For the most part, as long as those cars stayed away from the wire wheels and landau roofs, I think they were pretty attractive. But even then, I think they carried the vinyl well. My '82 Cutlass had a landau roof. It was jadestone, matching the rest of the car, so it didn't stick out.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

They aren't ageing well is what I meant. The older they get the worse they look to me. Maybe they'll become like what my father said once "I'm so far out I'll soon be back in".

andre1969 · November 2004

but then I actually prefer sleek, angular cars to egg-shaped ones, and most of the new cars coming out today are anything BUT sleek, so maybe that's why I like 'em.

andre1969 · November 2004

I know you're not that into video games, but I think you'd get a kick out of the latest "Grand Theft Auto" release. It's chock full of GM cars!

Among the ones I've ID'ed (it's hard sometimes, because they twist a few details around)

'58 Chevy
'68 Impala 'vert
'63 Impala 'vert
'93 Caprice
'92 or so Roadmaster
'81-87 Regal, with 20" or so rims
'91 or so Cavalier coupe
'80's Monte Carlo but...get this...it's a 4-door!
late 80's GMC Sierra pickup
Chevy II wagon
'80's full-sized Blazer
'75-78 Eldorado
and probably a bunch I'm forgetting right now.

Your beloved 5th Ave is even featured prominently in it!

michaellno · November 2004

While in HS, my girlfriends dad drove a BMW 530i .. musta been a '79, '80 or '81. Stick shift, and he used it to tow a TQ sprint car (TQ stands for three quarter midget, basically a sprint car powered by a 750cc motorcycle engine).

I had a college buddy who drove an early 80's Grand Prix ... brown, can't remember if it had a vinyl top or not. Drove it from Phoenix to SoCal on break one year ... I seem to remember that it had a pretty nice ride on the interstate, but zero lateral support in the front seats.

While I was in college, I went through a phase where I thought I wanted an American luxo-cruiser (Regal, etc.). I remember looking at the new for '83 T-Bird and thinking what a radically styled car it was in comparison.

Alas, when I graduated from college and got my first job, I ended up buying a year old '85 Accord LX hatchback for $8600. I remember looking at both the Grand Am (new for '85) and Mustang (with a 4-cylinder!). My dad wanted me to buy a Toyota Corolla (the real boxy ones that they offered in '85), with an automatic!

Ah, nostalgia.

andre1969 · November 2004

but I remember getting excited about the new Grand Am and its siblings when they came out for '85. I was 14 though, so what did I know? ;-)

I do remember that my Mom was considering getting a Grand Am when she was in the market for a new car in '86. She ultimately settled for an end-of-the-year '86 Monte, though. I'm glad, because ultimately that car got handed down to me! I doubt it a Grand Am would've made it to 179K miles like that Monte did when she gave it to me. And even if it did, I'm sure I would've gotten a lot more messed up in it than I would have in the Monte when I got t-boned!

I liked that Monte too, because in that era you could still really personalize a car with individual options, instead of having to spring for complete packages. It was just a base sport coupe, not an SS or even an LS. Had the "mouse fur" cloth burgundy interior that actually held up quite well over the years. But while it was a stripper, it still had the 305 4-bbl, and a nice upscale gray-over-silver 2-tone. While Montes were pretty common, it was still pretty rare to encounter a clone of myself on the roads. A stark contrast by today, when sometimes I'll spot 4 or 5 other silver 2nd-gen Intrepids in a single day!

michaellno · November 2004

Hey, I was almost 22 when I came out of college. Dad knew the sales mgr of the local Toyota dealer, so he "helped" us with the deal on the Accord.

Funny, now the guy owns the local BMW franchise, and my dad still went to him for "help" on getting used cars, and would refer friends and family to him as well. My dad always thought he was getting such a good deal, when in reality his friend simply turned him over to a salesman (or perhaps mgr, don't really know) to be "taken care of".

When my dad bought their last car, he did it pretty much via the internet. Got an '03 Hyundai Sonata GLS with the V6. Car is now 18 months old and might have 5K on it.

ghulet · November 2004

I've heard that the 'original' 530i of '75-78 or '79 was prone to some kind of valve or head gasket failure. Can't remember exactly. Nice cars otherwise, though, I still see them once in a while. Still, if I wanted one, I'd probably just find a 528i ('79-81), and they're usually better equipped, at least if you like power windows and sunroofs. One of the down sides of these cars, to me, were the funky factory paint colors. Lots of bright greens, pukey golds and strange rust and orange hues. Of course, this can be changed easily enough.

jrosasmc · November 2004

The problem with the 530i's (and all U.S. BMWs in the late '70s) was the thermal reactors. They would just get too darn hot and cause combustion problems in the motor.

ghulet · November 2004

...I knew it was those pesky thermal reactors or the flux capacitor or somethin'.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

Same with most 75-77 foreign cars. Bad years for German cars in general. BEWARE.

fintail · November 2004

I know those are the 450SLs to run away from

jrosasmc · November 2004

So it would be safe to avoid even the late '70s VW Bugs, with all their great charms and such?

ghulet · November 2004

I can't imagine why anyone would want a 450 Mercedes of any variety; they're porcine, complex, get lousy fuel mileage without the benefit of at least being quick. And the sedans are plain ugly. No, thanks. For the money they command, I'd rather have a 380/500/560.

I just saw a later (83-85?) Olds Omega (X-body, cousin of Chevy Citation) sedan in really nice condition. Can't imagine why you'd want to keep one on the road.

Not so rare except for body style, saw a second-generation (I think '89 or '90 by the grille) VW Jetta two-door, red, with the nice teardrop alloys.

merckx · November 2004

I'm posting this as obscure,not new,but maybe I just don't get out enough.....

I saw the latest Rolls sedan this morning....I still think it looks pretty ugly,but at least not quite so bad as in video and pictures....'way too chromey and blocky...

ghulet · November 2004

I saw a fairly interesting Cordoba tonight. It was a later first-generation, with the flush taillights and square, stacked, quad headlights (so '78-79 maybe?). It was kind of a sport model of some sort (didn't see any special badging, though), with louvered rear side windows, t-tops and dual hood scoops, which might have been done aftermarket, but they looked pretty decent. White exterior, non-factory wheels, interior had light blue velour buckets and a floor shift. Looked a lot more like a Mirada or 300 than a Cordoba, but badges said otherwise. No Ricardo Montalban in sight, no Corinthian Leather.

fintail · November 2004

I don't want a 450, I've just been told the 75-76 models in particular are the bad ones. I like MB 6cyl cars myself, decent performance with better economy and much easier maintenance. 380s are also weak, IIRC.

I remember when the cars were new, a family friend has a Jetta diesel 2 door. Those must be much less common.

andre1969 · November 2004

could that Cordoba have been one of those 1979 "300" models? IIRC, they were all white, but I thought they had red interiors? And I've never seen a Cordoba with louvered quarter windows. I've seen Magnums and Charger S/E's with the louvered windows, but never a Cordoba. That doesn't mean it's not possible, though!

Or I wonder if it could've been a car that had parts from several different cars swapped together? I think the Cordoba and Magnum actually had different sheetmetal, but some things were probably interchangable. And sometimes, just to be annoying, people swap badges. Back in late July I looked at a 1980 Cordoba LS (the cheaper model with the crosshair grille) for sale. It had "CMX" badges on the side, which normally denoted the Mirada that had the carriage roof!

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

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