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Here's what worked for me...
I started here at edmunds looking at comparions, reviews, etc. Went online to request quotes from the internet sales dept. This works great if you're on the go w/o much time. it keeps you out of the dreaded cubicle and keeps you more in control. I had each email me some starter numbers.
Each reply was structured a bit differently. It's always a combo of loan rates and sale price. Make sure you're given the car price, all dealer fees, dealer installed items, tag and registration = true out the door costs. If they keep telling you to come in for a better idea say no and move on to a new dealer.
Line up the best financing you can find for yourself and make the dealer beat it if they want your loan. This takes the price vs. loan variable out of play and gets you focused on an even tighter OTD.
I bought from Gwinnett Place Honda near Atlanta. 08 exl with navi - 29,600 otd. I bluffed a bit on the rate I brought with me and got 4.9 % for 60 mos with no money down. I managed to get the incentives and a good portion of the promo rate too.
By using the internet and not getting caught up wasting time at dealers I saw salespeople at two dealers in a one day span and came home happy. I brought my infant son with me as a prop to keep the upsales folks at bay in the ole' finance managers office.
1) According to what I've read, those in my area invoice for $33,030 (including destination fee), dealer's holdback is $1,091, and the dealer can expect to see an additional rebate from Honda for $3,500 if they sell this month. If I understand correctly means that the price, excluding any non-bogus fees and taxes, at which the dealer makes no revenue at all is $28,439.
1a) Am I right on my assumptions and conclusion?
2) Leaving out the outliers, most dealers are coming in within about $100 of each other, about 400-500 over that "break even price" before fees and taxes. On top of that, most dealers are asking for title and fees between $250 and $300.
2a) Are those fees real or do they include profit for the dealer?
2b) How low can I reasonably expect to go? It sounds like the dealers want to get the 08s off their lots, but they obviously have to eat. Is it worth pushing it or am I getting close to their rock bottom already?
Thanks!
I didn't check your invoice numbers, but I assume you double checked them from a couple of sources online?
Edmunds shows Honda hold back at 3% of MSRP but I have been told several times by other sources that it is actually 2% of MSRP now. If true, the the model you are looking at only has $727 in hold back and not the number you state.
As to what fees or legit or not, you have to figure that out for yourself. Get a break down of what they are adding to the Pilot and destination. All dealers in your area should be charging the same to title, tax, tags or tag transfer, etc - the difference may be the amount of their doc/prep fees.
So just take each deal and look at the price for the Pilot/dest/dealer fees and if you are into the hold back that is a nice deal no matter what the dealer fee is. If when you include the dealer add on fee you are over invoice less incentive then you have more bargaining to do .
Dennis
Thanks for all the great info that you provide. Are these BOCH Honda prices for real? They seem so much lower then everywhere else in the NorthEast. Do you know of any hidden fees they charge? If they are for real, I would make the trip to Mass from NY. I have a buddy who wants an Accord and we can make it a road trip. Thanks again
Dennis
From an e-mail today:
HONDA PILOT VP SPORT UTILITY
BEST MID-SIZED SUV
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
MSRP: $28,190
DEALER INVOICE COST: $25,590
HOLMES INTERNET PRICE: $23,590
60 MOS AT 3.9% APR: $433/MO
Good through March 24, the e-mail says.
Again, no connection to me nor have I ever purchased from them but I thought I would pass it along. I don't know if they add a doc fee or other stuff like that.
Note that this seems to leave $500 on the table as profit on the VP (not counting hold back) - since there should be a $2,500 incentive on the Pilot and their price is just $2k under invoice. Perhaps the 3.9% financing would more than make up the difference? Or you could ask them for a $500 lower price .
Dennis
I e-mailed several dealers and told them that I was ready to buy, and was shooting for the best OTD price. Several really came through, and if I'm doing the math right, I'm into holdout, even if you assume the "documentation fee" is pure profit.
Here's the ettiquette question. I'd probably prefer to deal with the dealership where we took our test drive, because the sales guy was very helpful and not pushy, and because he came through with a fair price. (He's at about 29,000 OTD including all fees but not including tax).
1) A couple dealers are $100-$150 under him. Do I owe them anything for coming up with such a good price? If I email them and say I decided to go with my test drive dealer, am I being a jerk?
2) I could go back to the guy I want to buy from and ask him to match, but that feels cheap when I am getting a good price. Am I a sucker for leaving money on the table, or would I be a jerk for going after it? (Techinically, I guess I could also e-mail all three leading dealers with a final price $100 under the lowest offer, and buy from whoever bites first, but that seems even cheaper to me).
Thanks again - Cheshire
A few years back we could have saved $200-300 by travelling 2 hours more (4 round trip) to a cheaper dealer. My wife and I decided it was really not worth the time, trouble, and gas so we paid a little more and purchased closer to home.
Sales people do deals, test drives, talk to folks, exchange e-mails all day long. They cast a wide net many, many times to land a single sale. So they should be used to rejection . A more aggressive person would play the dealers against each other to try to drive the price lower - and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are not comfortable with that, and you are sure your deals are into hold back for the vehicle / dest / dealer fee then do what ever feels right to you. Be sure that no matter which dealer you choose that once you are there ready to sign the paperwork that nothing has been added or changed - if so just walk out and go to the next dealer on your list.
Dennis
The dealer still can make profit even you go $100 below their best price. Take a easy, it's just business, you deserved what you pay for, it's their job to provide you their service and their time, and you make choices based on both the price and their services.
I live in Aurora , IL. I am in the process of buying a Pilot Ex-L. The best price received by me is OTD28770. Is this a good price ?
My target price is OTD 28200. Am I being unrealistic. ?
I am providing the break-up to arrive at this price:
Base price 26070
Doc 150
License Plates 143
CVR Fee 25
Tax @ 6.75
Let me know wahr best to expect.
Thanks for your help.
Satish
$26,351 - Pilot
$726 - Dealer Fees ($399 Doc Fee, $299 vts fee, $28 title fee)
+ Tax
I will be trying to get the Pilot for $25,500 - $26,000 and do not see a problem getting that price because of the first offer being $26,351. The question I have is the $726 for dealer fees. That seems way to high, I was expecting the fees to be under $400. Could someone who has purchased a new Pilot tell me if the $299 vts fee is real? And do we all pay $399 Doc fees? Thanks for the help!
Your price may be a bit unrealistic as there is not that much profit left in the deal at your price.
Dennis
The promo price $23,988 is for a 2 WD EX-L, and for AWD it's over $30K.
I have a better quote from my local dealer, $27,800 (and he is willing to do better than this, I just have to prepare myself to spend that much money) for a Honda Pilot 2008 AWD EX-L with Navigation.
FWIW, I would keep going. Don't worry about upsetting a couple of car salesman. Yes, there's the karma thing, but they do it to people all the time. Most dealers will beat your best quote by $200. That means a quick question to your dealer asking them to beat your next best price would be worth something like $350. How long does it take you to bring home $350? If you can spend an hour or two on the phone, wouldn't that be worth it to you?
Re: the karma thing. You can ask nicely. And if they refuse just say, OK well thanks for your help. I'd prefer to buy from you but I need to take the lowest possible price. That doesn't make you rude or anything. And if you're worried about it, just be super nice to everyone.
And if/when they start talking about needing to make a buck of whatever, ignore them. The car dealer business is complex enough that you and I, who only buy a car every few years, have no idea of the details of their business. Nor do we need to.
Just go for the lowest price. That's a win for you. Moving the car is a win for them.
Good luck & have fun!
Reid
Good luck & have fun!
Thanks for your advice. I am looking at 4WD.
I have not got a offer of $26220. The best I have got is 26920 ( Pilot + Doc ).
This is the first offer I received ( and may be this is the best offer) . I am trying to find if i have room to negotiate & get a better price.OTD 28200 would be nice.
Satish
I agree with your thought process. Unfortunately i have not received a deal where my OTD comes to 28200 ( read base price : Pilot 4WD Ex-L + Doc= 26220). I was seeking Dennis advice for I have read some of his posts & he seems to know the price point much better than a guy like me.
I have not got a quote of 26220. I was trying to find from Dennis what is the price I should expect to get.
Let me know if you have received better prices than what I got
Dennis
$27,500 + State Tax+ $199 Doc Fee + Title, registration, plates and $7.50 for tire tax.
What do you think of this price?
Thanks
I am a little confused here. Why would anyone give such as offer as the first offer ?
Also I read two posts in this thread where they have said that they have got Ex-L 4wd for 26078 & 26182. Your explanation seems logical to me.At the same time $500 difference is making me think as if I am missing something.
Satish
08 Pilot SE 12k/36mo
700 out of pocket at signing
came out $404 monthly including everything.
Is it a good deal? Or I should keep shopping?
I am in northern new jersey
thanks for helping.
And with Honda of Joliet, I was really disappointed. You can read my earlier posts, but we were on our way to pick up our new Pilot -- and never made it because they "just realized" the EXL was really an EXL w/ RES. . .
anyway. . . so far, Community Honda in Orland Park seem to be really straightforward. . .
post more later
I think I'll be going with Community, even though they're a couple hundred more -- they're closer and seem to be most upfront--telling me the dealer-installed options. Does that make sense or should I just go with the lowest bidder?
I am SO ready to be done with this -- even strangers are tiring of my shopping!
Ej
Are those considered good prices? Both quotes appear to be slightly under the invoice - $3,500.
Thoughts? :confuse:
26200 was Invoice - 3500 dealer incentives - 900 hold back. So if the dealer is desparate and having lot of stock, they might go in to hold back too. So check with couple of dealers.
Price: 28,400.
Doc Fee: 150
Taxes: 2143
Title and Registration: 168
Total: 30,861
Financing: 2.9% for 36 months, 0 down.
Dealer: Honda Superstore of Lisle, Lisle, IL
Other low quotes were 28705 from Honda in Joliet (email quote), 28990 from Community Honda in Orland Park (Phone quote), 29168 from Continental Honda in Countryside (Visited the dealer and talked to the salesman).
Personally visited the shop and said I will do it now if they sold it for 28400. They agreed, no pressure and gave for 2.9 APR.
It is the lowest february quote I received from Honda store in Joliet (the sales manager refused to honor their own february price and increased it by 300).
This website helped in getting a deal I am happy with. Took the fear out of me in entering a car dealer shop. Thanks EDMUNDS. PM me for salesman name.
Suresh
Pulled the trigger today. Final OTD for 4WD Ex-L -28600 which works out to sale price of 26640. Got it from Continental Honda. I would recommend them if you are unable to get better deal anywhere else. I was assisted by a guy by name was Roberto Orozco. Nice guy - not pushy & not trying to sell what i did not want. No hassles. Pleasant experience. If you need more details let me know. Would be glad to help
Satish
Thanks for your advice. Wanted to let you know that I purchased the 4WD Ex-L for Sale price of 26640 - OTD 28600. You were spot on when you mentioned there was little wriggle room for negotiating a better price. Thanks for helping in arriving at the right price.
Satish
Overall a good experience. The Internet Manager/GM is fairly upfront. His Internet quote was within $200 of what they sold the car for, so not bad.
Price $23,050
Dest $635
Tax $700
Doc $398
OTD $24,965
What's the feedback on my deal?
I got a little bit of money in the final negotiation but there wanted to discount price and not adjust doc fee for some reason.
I actually received an offer from Gwinett Honda in Atlanta for $22,657. This was below their President's Day sale quote which is listed here on this forum. I decide the drive from Raleigh to Atlanta was not worth $400.
Used Edmunds and followed the Motley Fool's car buying advise. I got all of the $3500 incentive, but was stopped short of getting into their hold back. I had several dealers decline to match the offer, which told me I was near the bottom. Inventory on 2WD EX is now very tight here. Seems only VP's and EX-L's are left in inventory. I was able to get the exact color combo I wanted, Nimbus Gray/Gray cloth.
Buying experience was good, but there is a smugness to dealing with Honda and their lack of wanting to negotiate. I guess when you have a great product, there is little need to haggle much.
One thing though, how did you get an OTD at 28600? Ours was 29035. Our taxes in Cook are 7.75%, so maybe that's how. . .
Oh and does anyone know the answer to this? The finance guy said you can no longer buy extended warranties from Honda, so if I pass on this chance, it's done. I didn't take it because I don't think it's true -- any one know for sure?
Thanks!!
And maybe I'll see you on the road Satish!
Jill
I actually got some quotes that were about $150 less than the one I took, but they didn't actually have the car in stock. I probably could have cut about $200 off the price if I had really worked it, though, but I thought it was a fair price and wanted to go with someone who could deliver my car to me immediately.
I think what you did was right. I only interacted with dealers on mail. This was the only dealer I visited. The difference is definitely due to tax. Tax in my region is 6.5%.
I have never opted for extended warranty in my earlier vehicles & I did not opt for one this time too. Dennis may be able to give appropriate advice on this one.
Once again Congrats!
Enjoy your ride
Dennis
Pictures here: http://www.ChevyNovaLN.com/Nimby2008/
Brian / ChevyNovaLN
thank you!!
I am in the same boat - I haver never purchased an extended warranty before b/c of Honda reliability, and have never needed it for anything major. however, i have had other small issues with the high-tech stuff- CD changer, ABS sensor, Airbag sensor, sunroof motor, Oxygen sensor etc. So, I am thinking about going in for the warranty this time. Since the online dealers (Sarcucci) are basically selling them at cost, I will likely get one, and if I am going to, it makes sense to get the longest one ($1195 for 120K). I figured, that way I know that my Pilot is guaranteed for at least that long (8yrs) without any other funds out of my pocket, including the Navi, cd changer, oxygen sensors, etc. Afterwards, I will keep it running another couple of years and then get the model 2 gens from now....
Good Luck!
One more purchase: 2008 Nimbus Grey 4WD EX-L w/RES for 30K OTD in Chicagoland (Grand Honda). Declined Extended Warranty per latest Consumer Reports issue. Great experience. Stock may be indeed low - Grand Honda was all out of NAVI and their Sunday ad today mentions 21 Pilots in stock. Thank you forum posters for the guidance provided. It greatly helped!
Normally you can pay a little more and wait to buy right before the basic warranty is up at 36/36k, but if this ban from Honda holds up you might be stuck going to your local dealer for HC at a rip off price.
Saccucci, Bernardi, and others sell it just over cost online - at least they do right now.
Your Pioot is a Honda so you probably will never need the coverage, but it is pro-rated refundable if you cancel it for any reason (totalled car, trade it in, etc). For $50 it can be transferred to a new owner should you decide to sell the car to someone else yourself.
Dennis
Thanks
If you are really going for the extended warranty make sure your read the fine print carefully. We all try to know what covered, but you should also know what's NOT covered so that you really know what you are paying for up front. May I suggest that you reach out to other Edumunds forum members who have purchase these extended warranties and get THEIR experience.
Fred
I am sure 2009 will have better features like availability for both navi/RES, blue tooth, milage reading based on exisitng gas left, fuel efficiency reading, power rear gate, etc but for the current rebate/discount on the existing model makes it a very "money for value" car. I don't like the look of the 2009 Pilot either.