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Comments
From what I have read, Navistar engines won't necessarily die, but it's the application that causes the problem. When Nav ships the 7.3 (known as the T444E) to medium duty truck manufacturers, they use a completely different cooling system (special water pump, different fan/belt system, etc.) to reduce the possibility of cavitation in the first place. The engine that is sent to Ford for the E-vans and F-pickups is surrounded by Ford components, not Navistar components, and this seems to be the root of the problem.
Cummins tends to win the "longevity" battle because their B5.9 doesn't use cylinder sleeves, so if the Cummins does suffer from cavitation, something went horribly wrong to cause it.
Regardless, both the Ford/Powerstroke and Dodge/Cummins will do whatever you ask them to, and any engine will only last as long as maintenance and use/abuse will allow.
My F350 SC SRW 4x4 V10 Lariat arrived today in Burnt Amber. Loaded to the gills - all that is missing is the class IV hitch ( I want a Class IV) and block heaters. Best news is that I ordered it on November 14, 1998. Less than 8 weeks and I drove it home.
To answer some questions with first hand knowledge:
The front seats are all leather. The back seats have cloth trim, but the rest is leather.
Kelly's prices match the dealers exactly. I priced 8 different trucks on the lot and evaluated 4 bids for building before selecting. The ONLY difference I found was the dealer price on an ordered truck for the tank of gas and the 65-85$ for the FDAF assessment. (Note: Kelly has a price for two tone in the options sections, not where the paint codes are shown.) Other than that the Kelly pricing was exact to the dollar.
There are NO tow hooks on the back.
The cab steps are wider and more sturdy than the ones on the expeditions, but not as sturdy as a NERF bar. I have now stood on both. The NERF bar is a little more slick when your shoe has ice on it.
I don't know of any option for another power outlet except you can get a splitter from Radio Shack for around $10 I think.
The spare tire is a crank down. New for me, my 92 had the old swing down leg breaker. The lock is a cable lock like a bicycle one for $15.
Four wheel antilock brakes are a $500 or were for me. 2 wheel abs is standard.
That's all I have answers for. Thanks for all the info over the past several months.
MAYDAYTOY
To the ones of you that have called; how did the people respond to your calls? Were they nice or sounded like you were bothering them?
I have actually ordered the same truck at 3 different dealers. The first one on August 7 and the other 2 at the end of August after finding out that my first dealer changed my order from priority 10 to 40. The dealer said that the truck I ordered was not buildable is why they changed it. B.S. The 3rd dealer ordered it priority 10 and has kept it there. I now have a partial vin number. I was told today that as the truck gets built the more vin numbers are added. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that? He said that it should be built in a couple more weeks.
The first 2 dealers say that the truck is still clean and unscheduled.
None of the 3 dealers required a deposit as they all said pretty much the same thing. If I decide that I did not want it after it came in that they could make more off someone else than me and would not have any problem selling it. I am paying invoice at all 3 dealers. I do plan to cancel the other 2 as soon as one of them gets here and I see that it is just like I ordered it. That way I do have a back up if it isn't.
Has any one else ordered the same truck from more than one dealer?
One other reason that I ordered from 3 dealers is that all 3 dealers told me that if they did not have an allocation the week that all parts were available that it would not be built. The next week they could have an allocation and the parts be on hold again.
I understand what your saying. My point was what good is the maintenance including the proper and timely administration of the FW15 or 16 cooling additive if according to Markbuck, the engine will fail regardless. That caught my attention in a big way. I just wanted to know what Markbuck bases his information on. From experience, educated guess, wild conjecture, what?
I would think the entire diesel community would be aware of this and would have a massive country wide alert urging people like us not to purchase the PS diesel if it will not last.
When we discussed this topic back in the spring professor Rich and a few others, really educated me about the cavitation issue. If I thought for one minute that I potentially could not put 200,000 miles on that engine with no fear of tiny holes forming in the cylinder walls, I would have opted for the V 10 hands down.
The manufacturer was confident enough to issue a 100,000 warranty I hope the engineering and workmanship is there. As consumers we should not have to include our Super Duty in our prayers each day, HAHA Seriously we should not have to live with this fear hanging over our heads assuming Markbuck is correct. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Mroffshore
I agree completely with that. One can only hope the new light-duty diesel that Ford has requested from Navistar for the light duty trucks will either be a design that can avoid cylinder sleeves, or will use components that are less susceptible to cavitation, so that this won't be a worry. The whole 7.3 cavitation thing seems almost embarrassing, considering the $3-4K option price. For that kind of premium, that should be the most maintenance-free engine you could buy. I have yet to do anything but factory-specified maintenance on my Cummins, and it just fires every day and runs til I shut it off. Yes, there are Powerstrokes that do also, but as you say, one of us has this potential disaster in the back of our mind.
I'd suggest one of two tactics. Either find a small dealership with no backlog of orders (what I did) or go with a larger one (such as Prestige Ford here in Dallas, the largest seller of FSeries trucks on the planet) that has a huge allotment. I made it clear that time was my number 1 concern, with price being important but secondary.
Oh, by the way if you find that your heater/defrost blower switch that move the air through the different locations doesn't work, check under the glove box and plug it back in. Mine quit working when my buddy caught his boot on it.
I hear the same little clunk when I shift also. It seems to be fairly common and I personally do not feel that it is too distracting or detrimental. So far I've used my SOF 7 times with out any problems.
Mroffshore
ESOF clunk is normal.
To #107 crcrain thank you for info on leather, two tone paint, tow hooks, extra power outlet, cabsteps, spare tire lock, and ABS
To #121 sd99 thank you for info on leather in Lariat, two tone paint, tow hooks, cabsteps, standard spare tire lock on Lariat pkg
To #105 droz you live in Wisconsin - so do I. Where did you purchase your truck ?
To anyone - what is the best snow plow match for SD F250/F350 with 4X4, auto transmission, V10, supercab,ESOF and LWB ? Is the 3.73 gear adequate for this task for someone seeking the best balance - some towing, some plowing, and reasonable gas considerations ?
I purchased in Milwaukee from Northpoint Ford but wouldn't recommend it. It was quick enough (I got it way back in April) but the service was unpleasant. Where do you live?
Qusstions remaining - anyone buy aftermarket headrests for rear seat in supercab ?
Is their a site that shows the cab steps in the Lariat package on either F250 or F350 or can you get a good feel by looking at a Ford Expedition ?
Do you need or are you wise to get the PTO (power take off) option if you want to snowplow ?
thanks
Tom 18
Ok, here it is. My success story (so far). As
most of you know, I've been paining away for about
6-8 months about a truck. An F150, an F250LD, and
F250SD, etc. I finally settled on an F150 for that I needed it to do. Totally tricked out. 4x4 S/C, etc. As I mentioned in an earlier post.
So what makes this post different? Well, I placed my order with the dealer on 12/29. He said he give to order to the order person on the 30th.
After that wait and see... So, I stopped in to the dealer last Friday, the 8th. I ALREADY had a VIN#. Talk about AMAZED! =:) WOOHOO!!! I don't know if I just caught the cutoff or what.
Now I've got a VIN (and no build date on his print out) so it's off to call Gwen at the factory to see what she can tell me! I never thought it would happen so fast, but it did! $100 over invoice and I couldn't be happier with Gary Boyd at Currie Ford (see earlier post for numbers). He will be happy to do waht he can for you! Be sure to mention my name, if you get a chance. He'll help you as best he can (he already helped Jim get a nice F350 off the lot for a great steal!).
Cheers, and I'll keep everyone up to date on the progress.
Ryan
Ryan
Bottom Line...you can tow with a shortbed..just get the right hitch, that's all!! Good Luck, JB
The good thing is that it's nice to know that they finally have a "system" for providing scheduling information to us long-suffering, long-waiting SD customers. I called the number that Airwolf posted and they were also very nice to me. However....
The bad thing is that there is no information posted on my order (11/2/98) yet. So I guess I will not be getting my vehicle any time in the forseeable future. They said to call back next week. And I could have made $1750 if I had only invested my $500 deposit in Amazon.com instead of laying it out in hopes of getting a pie-in-the-sky 4x4 V10 monster crew cab dream truck.
Oh well - you live and you learn. Maybe I'll just settle for a Toyota.
PS In reference to the posting on diesel life expectancy... we have been running PSD for years in heavy industrial service. Milage over 300,000 and you just can't kill them. Maybe we have been lucky, but change the oil and filter and run the hell out of them. that's what they are designed for.... Good Luck.
PPS Those of you getting no where talking to your salesman on Vin # etc. Go around him and talk to either the sales manager, general manager or owner of the company. You will be amazed with the improved service you get. Don't accept "no" for an answer.
PPPS After a few snow storms here in Connecticut I can tell you the 2WD CC PSD F250 is like a tank in the snow.
Ditto for me on the leather seats. It appears to me to be 95% leather.
Mroffshore
Oh ya, my buddy Mace finally let me drive his new SD F350 Crew Cab,4x4, V10, 3.73 to Phoenix and back.
A wonderful experience. Got 14.5 MPG going down to Phx at 75 to 80 over approx 150 miles according to the digital readout. Dropped to just below 14 on the way back.
I am missing my 1-ton ford crew cab. Don't miss the diesel....
Good luck!! JB
Goodluck and you all hang in there!!
I have another question for people who have received their trucks or people who have first hand knowledge of delivery times. I ordered a 350sd,cc,v10,4x4, on 9/14, produced on 12/9.
I still don't have a truck. Dealer can't seem to find it. Ford consumer help people, simply say it was produced and shipped and after that they lose control of it. It seems that 4 weeks is along time for shipment, does anyone know what shipment times are to be expected? It is supposed to be shipped to Denver. With deliverly to a dealer in Cheyenne. GO BRONCOS
After Ford ships the trucks by rail, they go into a large holding area (parking lot), where they wait to be delivered to dealers by car carrier. My truck was in town, in one of these lots for 15 days before the dealer finally got on someone to get it to the dealership. 4 weeks seems a little to long, but if you live where there was a lot of snow recently it could happen. My guess is your truck is in the area but waiting to be delivered to the dealership. Call your dealer to find out, and don't hang up until you get an answer. Good luck.
cowpokes: I sure hope your salesman/manager is doing everything possible to find your truck. You might ask them what steps they've taken, what they plan to do, etc. Possibly you could have them call the drop-off point with your VIN and see if the truck is there?
(loaded) on 08/18/98. Have called the dealer every friday since the 7th week and received no
info. No VIN, no build date---nothing. Not even
one phone call from the dealer to me period, until
today. The owner of the dealership called and
said he had "The Brute" sitting on his lot and
would start to service it for first thing friday.
I had become so frustrated with the wait I had
relolved to just drive my 90 F-150 Lariat for about seven more months and order a 2000 model.
I almost feel like I'm getting a year old truck.
What'd you guys think ? Am I suffering from
"Super Duty Delivery Sydrome". Need a shot in the
arm from somebody. Story continues tomorrow....
The brown fish man.
liner for the trouble. Well you guys know what
will happen tomorrow when I go look at her, I'm
sure she will fall in love with me and follow me
home...... Bet that thing will look good towing
that shinny bass boat around...
Thanks for the support.
The Brown Fish Man
I would like to put a plow on it but have heard that they are too long and the frame can not handle the quick disconnect plows. I don't want one if I have to move the front bumber out. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks Casper47
My F-250 SD also had a vibration in the floor. Typically when I turned the corner. It was the running boards. Each (on the SC) has 4 mounts. Just slide under there with your metric socket wrench and tighten up the mounting bolts. It's 5 minutes and no dealer hassle.
When I was tightening the bolts, my wife asked if I was going to do that every few months. My answer was that when I was done I was going to drag the welder out and tack the mounts to the rocker panels. Almost 8K miles later, no noise.
Rich