Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems

isellhondas · August 2004

Based on the tone and content of your post, I believe you.

Sounds like the replacement transmissions weren't up to snuff or something.

Hopefully, Honda will treat you in a manner that will retain you as a customer. Believe me, this is VERY out of the ordinary.

Sorry to hear of your problems.

fis · August 2004

All the top folks at the dealer are very sympathetic, but they defer (as I would expect) to Honda USA. Honda USA is a labrynth of gatekeepers designed to make sure you don't talk to anybody with real authority before you've gone through their standard investigative procedures (followed by their standard mediation procedures). These are the people who said they wouldn't pay to transport the Odyssey back to us, but would pay for our rental car, "even though we don't have to" (makes you feel warm and fuzzy, doesn't it?). I'm not sure we'll get anywhere with them unless it comes from an attorney.

msibille · August 2004

So far, no major problems. Svc dept managed to crack the plastic engine cover. Of course, the just reinstalled it without saying a word. I'm sure the argument is that they believe it's just aesthetic. My position, it's MY aesthetic pc o' plastic, and if somebody's gonna decide it's no big deal, that should be me. (My same position when they R/R the 3rd brk light in dealing w/ a bad rear spoiler, broke the little cover over the screw, and glued it back w/ silicone sealant. If I hadn't had to go into it to change a burned out 3rd brake light bulb, I never would've known. Only after I fought w/ removing the cover for a while did I figure out what had happened.)

Anyway, they said the pics of the gear looked good, so they installed the cooling kit. Nothing different observable in anyway to us, other than seeing the kit on top of the tranny, and the broken engine cover. (The replacement for which is now on order...)

msibille · August 2004

I'm sorry, but I missed what model year your Ody is. Of course, I've had the '99, the 00, and the 02. Each with a different tranmission. The first two had to be replaced, then thru a series of botches, the whole vehicle replaced. The current one 2002, just had the recall work. I don't believe that Honda ever really found the problem with the 99 and 00, I'm hoping that the cooling of the 2nd gear set is the only issue with the 02. So, I'm wondering which model you've had all the trouble with.

fis · August 2004

It was the 1999. So tell msibille me how you got your whole vehicle replaced.

msibille · August 2004

OOOHHH, very long story that I've posted several times over the years. In all fairness, the dealership was very accommodating. In the case of the 1999, they had not put everything back in place. A lot of minor things, but some of the more serious- electrical harness wasn't attached to the standoff that keeps it off the accessory drive (V) belt, in fact, it was between the bracket and the belt, and the belt was beginning to fray and the plastic connector was being sawn by the belt, the pwr strg reservoir was not reattached, just hanging from the hoses, the aux ($$$$) trans cooler I had the dealer install when I bought the vehicle - it wasn't connected to the new transmission. I saw the vehicle when I came home -had lifted the hood to check fluid levels etc as I am not really the trusting type, found all these things and, after screaming a bit, began to take photos. Since it was Friday evening, I had the pics developed and called the svc mgr on Monday a.m. to ask for an appt. Gave him my calm position on the issue as he went thru the pics. He was shocked by them. I told him I wanted a new vehicle, he said he couldn't make that decision, but would speak with those who could, and someone would call me back. I left less than confident of a quick resolution, but by 2pm that afternoon, we had agreed on a deal. I paid the one or two hundred dollars difference btwn the sticker of a 2000 and the old sticker of the 1999, and I paid 15c/mile for 10000 of the 11000 miles we had on the vehicle. I thought that was very reasonable. (At 15c/mile, the car would have to fetch well over $6000 after 100k miles.) The other 2 instances were similar. They could've made it more difficult, so that I'd have to go thru the lemon law, but they didn't. Yes, w/ the photos, I may have won (after all, it was the 3rd time they worked on the tranny and there is a 3strike rule in our lemon law), but it would've taken quite some time, and I probably would've been charged a bit more for the mileage used. They handled it very well. Given that, I can say they've always treated me well (We stuck w/ the Ody because my wife loves driving/using it, and I couldn't afford to go to something else when they offered this kind of fix.), but everytime the mechanics touch it, something goes wrong. I'd been trying to keep them from doing anything but an occasional oilchange when Icouldn't get to it - but then came this tranny thing. They've got some new management in svc, I'm hoping that'll help.

cooldad24 · August 2004

.............[speechless].......

stickguy · August 2004

Wonder if they have made any substansive improvements for the new '05, or (more likely) it will just be a carryover from the '04? Being interested in an '05 later this year, inquiring minds want to know.

At least now some folks might cut Chrysler a little slack. Fixing these tranny issues isn't as simple as it sounds. Almost like some designs have basic limitations (smaller tolerence for abuse?), and continual tweaks can only go so far. Almost better to just start from scratch.

I bet driving carefully and keeping the fluid changed will greatly increase your odds of having a good tranny. The towing package (for the cooler) sounds like a good bet too.

Knock on wood, but this makes me appreciate our '99 Quest more tha usual. THe tranny is solid, and while it make have some other flaws, the trannys seem totally bullet proof (sometimes low tech has advantages).

robevts · August 2004

So far, Consumer Reports does not ding the Ody for transmission reliability. I hope I will be able to come to this forum several years from now, with 100k on the vehicle, to mention no problems with my 2003. I guess I would feel better if I saw more posts here from people who have high miles with no transmission issues. Where are you?? Of course, it is likely a higher percentage of posts are from people who are having probs with there vehicles, eager to have a forum to share and vent their frustration.

msibille · August 2004

You know, that's something that I've been curious about as well. Although my responses to the CR survey alone wouldn't statistically change the rating, Each of the vehicles that I've had, have either had a tranny replacement or, in the case of the current '02, the recall fix. Even the 2000 model that we had for only 9 days before it was wrecked, after it was repaired, and we had traded it on the new one, we returned to the dealer (for diagnostics of the new van's tranny) and saw one on the rack. The svc guy said, "Yeah, that's the one you just traded in, getting a replacement transmission."

So, the first 3 all had trannys replaced, and the 4th has had this recall. Again, at least three major design changes over the course of those 3 model years (1999 thru 2002). So, those with the 2002 and on, perhaps this is the only remaining problem. I hope so.

FWIW, we have 52k miles on this 2002. We hadn't gotten past 10 to 20k on the others.

msibille · August 2004

Yeah.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2004

I think this phenomenon is called something like The Theory of Large Numbers, which, as I understand it, goes like this: If one person out of a hundred in a bar is wearing a large pointy hat, a person entering the bar will notice that immediately. If one person out of a hundred is doing that in a football stadium, hardly anybody notices when entering the stadium. So in the big picture, it's hard to pick this up as a glaring defect for the whole group produced.

badgerfan · August 2004

What surprises me is that after the transmission problems you had on your older Odys, you still went and bought another one. I certainly would not have that kind of brand loyalty.

Basing your purchasing decisions on the experiences of others such as using CR and JD Power polls is one thing, but if you have trouble with the vehicle and it is in your driveway, that hits a lot closer to home.

user777 · August 2004

good point. i suppose it may have to do with the overall value represented by the entire vehicle, and also one's experience, i.e. how one was treated by corporate and the dealership. how is it that older ODYs still have such high value under the circumstances?

fis · August 2004

Thanks for sharing your story again. Thank goodness you checked things out, took photos, etc.!

As for the lemon law, I hate to have to go that route, but so far we have not gotten any empathy from Honda USA. We are hoping to get a fair settlement offer, but are absolutely prepared to fight if necessary. The lemon law here states that I may demand a refund instead of a replacement car, and that they may only deduct value lost until the date that they were first notified of the defect (i.e., 51,000 miles ago).

I point this out for all of you with recurring transmission problems that are browsing this forum. Know your rights.

All this being said, I would buy another Honda, but not a 1999-2004 Odyssey.

msibille · August 2004

It's spousal loyalty, not brand loyalty. ;-)

She so loved the Honda layout (others now have competitive and/or better, but at the time, the Ody was her fav by far) that she didn't want to change. And, as I noted, had I just decided to trade-in the Honda on a Sienna, I'd have lost a pile o' cash. So, on one hand, get a new Ody and hope for better luck, OTOH, spend a bunch o' cash to tick off the spouse. For those of you who have REMAINED married for any period of time, I don't have to tell you that the cash was the smaller influence...

badgerfan · August 2004

I understand 100%. My wife has driven two Caravans(first one 12 years and the second one is at 7 years and counting). She won't drive anything but a minivan, and the long wheel base versions (ODY, Sienna, Grand Caravan and Nissan are too big for her tastes and MPV is too small. We have had no transmission problems, but have spent more than our fair share on AC repairs over the years. But engines and transmissions have been trouble free. As long as the problems have been limited to AC, she has been happy because in that 19 year period, was only stranded once with a mechanical issue, which turned out to be very minor. You do not want your wife to be stranded, that is my number one goal!

texasmom · August 2004

if the 2005 Ody will have a new tranny or just a tweaked tranny. Does anybody know? I'd sure like to know as I'm in a decision-making mode. Thanks!

fis · August 2004

I'm pretty sure it's a complete redesign this time.

imidazol97 · August 2004

Does anyone have anything in print that says it will be a different tranny? Just modifying the old minimal design won't do it. They've surely done that many times in the past -- and it hasn't worked.

The tranny needs to be reengineered for the car. Otherwise customers are going to be on the hook after the warranty wears off.

stoopid1 · August 2004

LOL, msibille!! You're a smart man. Sounds like you know the old saying, when Mama 'aint happy 'aint nobody happy!! Glad to hear "so far so good" with the updated tranny. Here's hoping its a permanent fix!! Sorry to hear about your service department mishaps. Its kinda like taking your kids for a "well visit". If they were well to begin with after they go through the germ infested doctor's office they'll soon be sick!! Same sometimes with a car, isn't it. Get something fixed and something else is then messed up. Anyhow, best of luck and again many thanks for your input on my questions.

Stoopid1

msibille · August 2004

Actually, if you review my posts, you'll see that we had 3 different models from 1999 thru 2002. Each had a TOTALLY different transmission. Not just tweaks on the inside, the cases were noticeably different. So a new design doesn't necessarily mean better. In fact, I (normally) avoid first year models of a new vehicle. New generally runs the risk of generating new problems. A whole industrial quality philosophy, Management of Change, deals with that concern. So, if the problem(s) have all been found, accurately identified, and an effective fix found, you're actually better off than if you have a whole-new design. So don't get too negative about the idea of the current tranny being continued with modifications vs. a new design.

So why ever design something new? Because we would still be pulling carts with oxen. Talk about high maintenance!

flgirlfive · August 2004

Have there been a lot of 2004 transmission problems or is it too early to tell?

fis · August 2004

There's already been one transmission recall on the 2004s.

flgirlfive · August 2004

Would the extended warranty that you can purchase cover this after the 3yr/36k original warranty?

We are down to the Odyssey and the Sienna. I was really leaning towards the Odyssey with all the great deals you can get right now. Although the Sienna is several thousands of dollars more, I am starting to think the Sienna might be worth it if you don't have to replace the transmission numerous times over your ownership period? (We plan to keep this van for 7-10 years.)

isellhondas · August 2004

Only the very early 2004's were recalled. the later ones had the fix done at the factory. Even without the modification, there is little chance you would ever have a problem.

fis · August 2004

Despite having had all these transmission problems, I agree with those who are saying this is unlikely to happen to you.

I figure I owe you all an update. I now spoken with many people at American Honda and at 2 Honda dealerships, from Sales, Service, Mediation, and Customer Relations. Nobody has seen anything close to the troubles my car has had, and they have been eager to make good.

After a little back and forth negotiating, yesterday I picked up a new 2004 Odyssey EX-L with CD/Cassette (the one option my '99 Odyssey had that wasn't standard on this year's EX-L). For this, I paid the dealer about $7,700, and they will be picking up my old '99 Odyssey from where it sits 150 miles away. They are also reimbursing me for renting another minivan over the last 2 weeks.

The math behind this is that the dealer is accepting my old lemon as a trade-in for $11,000, and American Honda is paying the dealer about another $7,250 towards my new car.

As an alternative, I was offered about $15,000 cash, but they tried to make the trade in offer better as an incentive to keep me in the Honda family.

Given that I was past the statute of limitations on both my state's lemon law and the federal warranty laws, I thought this was pretty fair treatment. I considered using the money towards a Pilot instead of an Odyssey, but in the end even this end-of-model-life Odyssey is still a pretty compelling package.

hobieslug96 · August 2004

I got a 02 ody with 104,000 tranny went 2 mo. after the recall was done ( i still think that deverting oil to 2nd gear will drop oil press to the spots it was designed to feed)anyway this tranny was shot and ran perfect for 100,000 miles.
went to honda dealer at lakeland florida within 10 min. they road tested checked and got permission from honda to put in a new tranny free of charge [great dealership]
this tranny went in one day from perfect to clunking,jumping out of gear, reving in between shifts dropping from 4th gear to 1st{ this last one was very scary at 60 miles an hour

steinbrecher · August 2004

Have a 99 Ody with about 123K. Got a new tranny at 78K. If the new tranny goes bad what recourse if any do I have?

Also when are the 05's coming out? Are they going to have the same problems as the 04's or did Honda re-tool the tranny's with the 2nd gear fix?

Thx.

johnnyrf · August 2004

I had my 2nd '99 Ody tranny replaced at 80K miles. (1st one went at 40K miles). I now have 85K miles on the vehicle. I just noticed more tranny fluid on the floor of my garage! It's a small puddle, but what the #$&@*??? This ody transmission fiasco has been a pain for my family for a few years now. I won't even take it on long trips due to my paranoia of it breaking down. Can I invoke the lemon law for 3 transmission replacements (if I need 1 this time) in 5 years? If so, I am going to tell Honda to keep the van.

laundryguy · August 2004

It's been a cool summer in the upper midwest, but the 2004 I have hauling 3000 lbs boat and occasionally a 1000 lb utility trailer loaded to the gills is doing great. Unbelievable power pulling in very steep incline boat launches. Didn't scrape the hitch either. I've seen the Toyota version and it would be tough to keep the hitch off certain boat launch inclines where it transitions from level to the lake/river. Like it so much - thinking of parting with an SUV for a higher mileage car - or maybe another Ody in a year or two. Ody about 17-18 pulling the big boat at 55-65 mph - much better than the mid-size SUV's 13-15.

fis · August 2004

Johnnyrf,
Lemon laws vary by state. You may not fall under your state's law depending on what the notification requirements are for filing your claim (that's where I fell short in my state, despite having my first failure within 5,000 miles). However, that doesn't mean you can't get a settlement from Honda. See my postings over the last 3 weeks on this subject, including #653 regarding the settlement I finally reached with American Honda Motor Co.

danthevanman · August 2004

I'm not sure if this applies, but I owned a 2001 Odyssey that I just traded on a 2004 Ody. In 2002, I received an extended warranty notice from Honda advising me that they were extending the warranty on my Odyssey's transmission to 100,000 or 5 years, whichever came first. I didn't request it nor did I ever need it. When we traded it, it had 56,000 miles but never a problem, let alone a tranny problem. Just thought I'd mention it so maybe you could see if they did the same on your year of van.

bren3 · August 2004

Just took in my '03 Ody(33K)this week for the recall check and sure enough the 2nd had heat damage. Dealership is ordering a different tranny, but tells me it will be a reconditioned one. Does anyone know if this is the norm? I am very put out by this...I think the tranny should be brand new especially after reading about the poor soul who had 5 different transmissions. I have been told that these reconditioned trannys are made in a very 'sterile environment'. I guess this was supposed to make me feel better (it didn't). My other ?'s:

1) Where does Honda acquire the transmissions they are reconditioning?

2) Will they take my tranny and recondition it?

3) What will the warranty be on the "new" transmission?

I would greatly appreciate any info on this. Thanks!

aspesisteve · August 2004

anyone know what a new tranny goes for on an Odyssey?

No problems to date on my '02 Oddy, but I'm thinking of purchasing the extended warranty come next year when the mfg. warranty expires.

or better yet; has Honda upped the warranty duration for my tranny on my '02 Oddy?

1llini · August 2004

I took my 2003 Ody in last week for the transmission recall inspection. I was told there was no sign of heat damage so the oil jet modification was done. The van has 43,000 miles on it.

isellhondas · August 2004

You can relax. A reconditioned transmission has had most of the internals replaced. Some items like the outside case never break or wear out.

The replacement parts are updated too to reduce the chances of problems in the future.

Your old transmission will get totally rebuilt and it should serve the new owner a long life.

just4fun2 · August 2004

Remember, you can always trust what the sales people tell you. Me, I would rather seek information from people that have to pay for and have driven this vehicle for a couple of years.

Honda should not even be having this conversation about transmissions in the first place. Some Honda owners have stated that they needed more than one transmission replaced. I think that is the important statement here.

bren3 · August 2004

I don't suppose isellhondas has an odyssey. just4fun is right...Honda should not be having this conversation about transmissions. Do you have any idea how many of these posts I read while trying to decide what to buy? I not only read Honda's, but also Ford and Toyota's. Maybe we should have gone w/Toyota since my husband works for a co. that produces parts for Camry. I know no vehicle is perfect, but come on. A reconditioned transmission? Of course I know why...it's more cost effective. But when I read more than a few posts about people that have had 3 and 4 'reconditioned' trannys put in, I personally cannot relax. My family's safety is at stake here. That is one reason we decided on the Ody. Besides, I like the way it handles not to mention the 'reliability' I thought I was paying quite a few dollars for. So, isellhondas, since you seem to be quite knowledgeable & proud of what you do, what kind of warranty is Honda graciously going to give us poor souls {who will never have 'piece of mind'} w/a reconditioned tranny. I noticed you did not address this question. I was initially told 12 months/12,000 miles. This surely CANNOT be right.

isellhondas · August 2004

Trying to answer a question and trying to put a nervous person at ease.

If you want to believe the sky is falling you may do so.

No transmission should ever fail. In the real world a small percentage always will however on all makes and models.

Worry all you want to but a remanufactured transmission is no different than a brand new one in terms of reliability.

I didn't answer the warranty question because I'm not sure. I don't work in service. They will have the answer to that question.

Mr_Shiftright · August 2004

"reconditioned" is an unfortunate use of words, as it has no legal definition or commonly agreed-upon meaning. It could mean "rebuilt" or it could mean "overhauled" or it could just mean "good as new but not new".

But it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

isellhondas · August 2004

I remember back in the Powerglide days it was pretty common for them to need an overhaul around the 60,000 mile mark. Back then nobody complained because it was expected.

They were only two speed transmissions and they would start slipping between first and second.

Most quality shops would install heavier duty clutches and more of them. Once this was done, they had a firmer shift and they would last much longer than the originals.

hansienna · August 2004

And transmissions failed about every 30,000 miles. For less lethargic starts, an owner could manually pull the selector to Low and then move it to Drive once it got going 30 MPH or so.
     After 3 or 4 years, GM changed Powerglide so it would automatically start in Low and shift into Drive.
     Odyssey transmission failure rate is very low even though we read of many here in the Town Hall. I know many Odyssey owners and NOT one has had any transmission problems.
     I hope CR does not distort the Odyssey transmission failure rate as they did the Chrysler minivan transmission problems.

isellhondas · August 2004

Well, actually they were two speed you just had to shift them like you said. Powerglide came out in 1950 but they didn't shift for themselves until 1953. These were quite rugged. In 1962 they went to the Aluminum Powerglides and those were the ones that wore out the clutches.

It has to be remembered that forums like this attract the people with problems just like hospitals attract sick people. People like to share their tales of woe and this is a good place for that.

The vast majority of Odyssey owners will never have a problem at all.

I keep hearing that 2% of the cars are affected.

imidazol97 · August 2004

".I now have 90,000 miles on it and Honda refuses to extend my warranty beyond the 100,000 miles they extended it to originally.I have no choice but to unload it before I have to start shelling money out of my own pocket."

Isn't it nice of them thought to have extended the warranty on the transmission to 100k rather than fixing the things right so you'd have a transmission to go 200 250K?

That's the part I can't understand: people being happy the warranty got extended on replacements that are the same as original. Fix the problem. Put one of those in, then kiss me goodbye.

imidazol97 · August 2004

think onthe Odysseyes with all those problem trannies. Oddly many people will still think the Hondas hold their values just fine despite problems.

Hospitals: Does that mean since the people in the hospitals are complaining about their ills, that the people outside don't have the same diseases? Let's use HIV as an example here...
Or gallstones in people over 50.

I think the people here are representative of the real people out there. Some problems may be brighter here under the light, but others have small problems and don't complain. That's true for most car models. Get someone talking about their wonderful car, and they'll start telling about the little aggravations.

Whether 2% is meaningful would have depended on the fix or the bandaide used on the problem. 2% getting a different lube system???? I don't know....

bren3 · August 2004

I don't believe the sky is falling, but reading previous posts about multiple transmissions replaced in more than one van, I must say I have concerns about safety. Stating that a "reconditioned transmission is just as good as a new in terms of reliability" still does not ease my mind considering the fore mentioned posts. Just let me make clear that this is our 2nd Ody. The 1st was a '01, which I had practically no problems with (noisy window motors and paint bubble in rear bumper). I sold the van w/36K to my neighbor and they have probably put another 36K on it with no problems. I just did not expect to have this problem with my Honda, especially since they were in their 6th production yr. when '03's were made. How long does it take to work out the bugs? It is a HUGE disappointment and hassle, and this is my complaint. I love my Ody, and I want to rest assured I have one of the best vehicles on the road.

Get it?

dat · August 2004

Last week August 20th I was driving while on vacation and the check engine light came on. We went to a dealer and was told to turn the car on and off 6 times and the light should go out. We went to another dealer who said that we needed a new transmission. My Car is a 01 with 60,000 miles on the car. The transmission was replaced but we had to get a rental to continue on our vacation.

just4fun2 · August 2004

Your Honda van comes from the factory with all new parts, including the transmission. If the remanufactured transmission is as good as a new transmission (which failed), how could a person in this situation "relax"?

Since this is only a lack of lubrication to the 2nd gear and Honda can't tell which transmissioms will fail, give the "origional" owner a lifetime warranty on the transmission if the transmission failure is caused by the lack of lubrication to this part. Of the 2% transmission failures, what percentage is caused by this lack of lubrication to the 2nd gear?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2004

Personally I'd have more faith in the *factory* reconditioned one that the one that came with the car. That is more logical if you think about it, as the reconned one has been inspected internally with an eye toward reconciling the problem--also it isn't your old one that's been reconned, but another one.

If it were your own transmission rebuilt at a local shop, well, I might not be as assured.

As for a failure of the transmission at 100K, this to me is acceptable mileage for a transmission's life---not IDEAL, but within the range of probable failure on other makes of cars.

As you know, failure rates spread out on a continuum....some of the failures will be at one end, some in the middle (most,hopefully) and some on the other end. That's just statistical probability. A couple percent will fail at 100K, a couple percent at 300K, most I bet around 175K. You can't engineer a component to last a precise amount of time. Nothing made by humans or their robot slaves are that perfect.

So by definition, a couple percent of X automaker's customers are not going to be happy at 100K. Be it Rolls Royce or Ferrari or Honda or Lexus, this will happen. Some people just get the "short straw" unfortunately.

Honda Odyssey Transmission Problems

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