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If you are comparing a sedan to a sedan, then if the dealer gives you the same deal as the advertised car, the price is totally dependent on the MSRP. So, if the MSRP is 1% less, then the lease price should be 1% less, plus taxes. If you looked at a coupe, then the residuals are less and the payments are higher.
Also, if you asked to put down less money than in the advertised lease example, then the payment would go up.. But, if it is all apples to apples comparison, then the payment should be the same or less if the MSRP is less. The dealer may be adding fees or other after market markups (floor mats?) that aren't in the advertised deal. Regional advertising fees (MACO) could also raise the deal a little.
But, since your car should be a couple hundred less than the advertised example, I wouldn't think your deal should be over $320 with tax included. That does include about $3200 upfront, though..
regards,
kyfdx
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I made this deal over the phone on Saturday and need to go in the dealership (don mackey BMW)tomorrow to see details and sign for?. down was 3700 "which is higher than normal due to paying to have shipped from california"; according to the salesman. Have not signed anything yet.
Great choice with the Sport package and manual transmission, by the way.
regards,
kyfdx
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What is everyone else's experience in purchasing a new M3 lately? He claims he won't take anything off if I order a new one from Germany rather than choose the one on his lot.
Thanks,
-Jon
Good luck! Sounds like a nice car.
I am interested in leasing or purchasing a 2004 325i. I just got a quote from BMW dealer at Escondido, CA (suburb of San Diego). I would like to hear the reactions from all of you:
2004 BMW 325i
Steel Blue metalic
Gray leather interior
Auto transmission
Moonroof
Heated front seats
MSRP: $33,545
Invoice: $30,795
The dealer asked for additional $300 for advertising fee and $500 over the invoice, thus
Final price: $31,595
If lease for 36 months, 10k/year
Money factor: 0.00165
Residual value: 64%
$1816 down
$368 plus tax each month
What do you all think?
The advertising fee (MACO) is on the dealer's invoice, so if working up from invoice you have to include that. The $500 over invoice is a very good deal, but be aware that the dealer is marking up your money factor. The base money factor is .00125... If he used that money factor, your payment would be $21/mo. less.
What does your $1816 up front include? I'm assuming $368 first payment, $400 security deposit, $525 acquisition fee. That adds up to about $500 less than your upfront. They might be marking up your acquisition fee or adding document fees (no justification for these).
The monthly payment is right on the money with the parameters you gave, but looks like about $1000 padding between higher money factor and upfront fees... Still.. a very fair deal, but not really a $500 over invoice deal. Is this for an ordered car or one on the lot?
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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The car we desire in that particular specification is currently not existing. The dealer says it can be ordered now and will be delivered at around 6/10/04. Does that mean that we have to pay extra, such as acquisition fee?
Thanks again for your help.
If you make the deal this month, the lease program is locked in until the end of June. They must have a car allocated that they can still change the options on.
I think you have a pretty good deal. Once you see the breakout of the fees, you could ask them to remove any document fees (these are just padding), or if acquisition fee is over $525, ask them to reduce it to the base rate... Otherwise, you could ask them to drop the money factor to the base rate (.00125).
Since your deal is just for $500 over invoice, they may not be willing to do any of those things. It is still a very fair deal, especially since you are ordering it just the way you want, and not paying for any extra options you don't need.
You might ask them what happens if your car doesn't show up on time? Specifically, if it shows up after July 1st. The lease terms probably won't get any better on this car than they are right now. Don't let the deal get away over $500.
regards,
kyfdx
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You don't say how many miles, or if the car is automatic, or what color it is, but in general, you should be looking at under $30K for an '03 CPO 325xi. In general terms, the CPO should be at least $7K less than the MSRP of a comparable new one. If it is less of a difference than that, then I think the new one would be the better buy.
The CPO makes a lot of sense if you drive a lot. If it is one year old or less, and has less than 15K miles, you could drive it for five full years under warranty at 18K miles per year.
regards,
kyfdx
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2004 325i
Sport/Premium
Xeon
HK
Floor mats
Steptronic
Titanium with black leather
MSRP: $37,870
36 month 15k/yr lease
Paid first month payment of $451 down. 35 more at $451 plus $350 disposal at end of lease. I think money factor was .0014 which is more than some have quoted but out of pocket seemed good so went for it. No sales tax as they had tax credit. Tags and license included. No money up front but the $451 first payment.
Do you think I did ok? This was in Texas.
MSRP is $52,740. We settled at $50,000 even. The catch is the financing. Because I don't need the car until September, I'll work the financing when I get close to delivery. I had to decide now because of incentives on my current lease (Saab). Once I drove the SMG, it was no contest though.
Let me know your thoughts on the price and any advice on negotiating the lease.
My deal was approx $1,500 above ED invoice. To me, this was a fair price since the dealer secured the ED date that I wanted.
I locked-in the March lease terms by submitting (on-line) the BMWFS application on 3/31. The lease terms are: 36mo/45K, 58% residual, 0.0014MF, zero cap cost reduction, $551/mo plus sales tax.
Could I do better in price and/or APR? I dont' want to lose a good deal, but also want to make sure this is one. The MSRP on a 04 of with the same features is 36,400.
Also, I want to know why an 03 is already on the lot with 19k miles on it. I will ask, but is there anything I should be wary of? Do they have to be honest about where it came from?
Thanks-this board is priceless!!
Every used car and dealer is different, so it is hard to say if you can do better than that price. I personally think it is about $1K high. If I could get the new one for $34,5K, I would rather have that, than the used one at $30.5K. The APR looks fair for an'03, but check with your credit union if you have one, or the bank where you have your checking account. Most will give new car rates on an '03.
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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lwv: That $451/month sounds like a good deal on a $37K+ car.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
You will have a hard time ordering, and getting the car by 6/30/04. You have to take delivery by then to lock in the current lease deals. That would make the savings of not getting the premium package negligible. At most you are saving perhaps $13-$18 per month, and could possibly cost yourself much more than that, if lease deals aren't as good later.
If you can live with the steptronic, you should be able to find plenty of inventory equipped the way you want right now. You may be able to bargain hard enough on a lot car, to make up for the cost of any extra options you don't really need.
Your option list looks good.. I wouldn't let the HK be a deal breaker. I have it, and its better than not having it, but I wouldn't say its worth $700. I wouldn't have it without Xenon and Sport, though.
regards,
kyfdx
EDIT: Leather?? You might have a harder time finding a car equipped that way, if you don't want it. Most with premium and sport packages will have it.
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Thanks for helping all of us.
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Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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I just bought a 325xi (metallic paint, auto, premium and heated seats) for $34130. BTW, did the invoice price of the 325xi increase from $29850 ?? BTW, the price also includes floor mats which i would think should not even be discussed for 30k+ car.
Also, the sales person was asking me if i want to turn daylights on ? Does that burn the headbulbs faster? Any adavntage one way
or another ?
Any last minute freebies or things to get before i sign my
hard earned money away?
To me, the trade-off is between the mileage of the 2002 being significantly greater than the 2003 versus having the convenience of the wagon and the safety of AWD. So should I be concerned about buying the more "used" car. I plan to drive either car for roughly 8,000 miles/year for at least 5-7 years.
2) 28K miles vs. 7K miles: Care of the vehicle is much more important, the more miles there are. I have rarely seen a car with under 10K miles that had condition issues. The older car could have been owned by an uncaring owner for 2.5 years.. This is definitely in favor of the '03.
3) Wagon vs. Sedan: I happen to like wagons, but most think you are giving something up in appearance. Unless you really have to haul a lot of stuff around, or take long driving vacations with 3 or more people, I don't see it as a necessity from a utility point of view. If you like wagons better, though, score one for the '02.
4) All-wheel-drive vs. rear-wheel-drive: All wheel drive will give you better traction in the winter. But, BMW's system is far from state of the art. If you were choosing between an A4 with fronttrack or quattro it would be a no-brainer, but there are compromises with the 3-series. The negatives: increased weight, poorer handling, lower gas mileage, higher maintenance costs, higher ride height (appearance). I don't know where you live, but assuming its not Minnesota or upper Wisconsin, I give the nod to the sedan. A set of 16" winter tires on the sedan will give it better winter handling than the wagon with all-season tires and 80% of the traction. For those that have to have all-wheel-drive, a 3-series is a great car, but if you are still making that decision, I vote against it.
5) If the cars are optioned similarly, then the '03 looks like the better buy.
Okay, what color blue? LOL
regards,
kyfdx
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Thank you for the excellent, point-by-point analysis.
As for the warranties, the wagon is CPO and has 3 1/2 years of warranty left. The sedan was used by the dealer as a loaner car for service customers--it has never been titled.
As for the need for a station wagon and AWD, we have an SUV (Lexus LX470) which serves any station wagon roles and yet another car that I can drive in the winter (Volvo 850) in St. Louis. The BMW purchase would be primarily for commuting purposes (average 120 miles/week) and errands, rare short car trip by myself, etc.
Thank you very much. Your comments are extremely helpful. I will pass on the wagon and may wait instead for a low mileage coupe, which is what I would really prefer.
SageRad
regards,
kyfdx
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Thank you for your insights and analysis.
prem pkg, heated seats for 31k flat?
in nj area
thanks
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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I got the same thing as yours but in a 325xi and paid 34K
Why is that?
2) BMW doesn't have holdback.
3) I find I have the most success, if I know the dealer's cost on the car, but never mention it. I compute the cost, make that my first offer, then move up to what I think is fair, if needed. I never bring up invoice. Asking for a certain number over invoice just invites the dealer to start the shell game.
regards,
kyfdx
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regards,
kyfdx
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The deal was for $1,785 under MSRP (Premium, Sport, Xeon, Leather, Auto), but the MF was .0016 instead of .0014 (Sec Dep. waived). Translated into an extra $14/mo (x 36 mos). Asked for them to meet me at .0015 - but dealer would not move, "we need to make some money on the deal" response. Just seemed like I could do better since $1,500 off MSRP appears to be the "worst" someone should accept and NOBODY was on the lot looking at cars (on a Sat. afternoon no less). I should note that the car was not on the lot (would trade another dealer or order), but was perfectly equipped (incl. color). What do you think??