2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

tcn2k · May 2007

That is total BS JingleJill! All my cars are bmw and this last one, I did the math like dougsilver and lease my 335i instead of purchasing like I normally do. I think people are beginning to realize the benfits of leasing since they get a chance to purchase it afterward. Even if folks just want to lease, I wouldn't call them non "TRUE BMW" fans either. The payment on these vehicles aren't cheap like an audi or an accord etc.

circlew · May 2007

Agreed. I could have paid cash for my 330xi but decided to lease. I will consider the 335 next in 2008. I will lease again waiting for the 340 in 2011.

Regards,
OW

kyfdx · May 2007

Well... I couldn't have paid cash for my BMW.. But, considering that I leased a $50K car for less than the typical lease payment of a $35K Acura TL, I'll learn to live with the shame..

Where I come from, saving money is considered a good character trait..

jenno2 · May 2007

I am not arguing who is the true BMW owner. I just drive too many miles to have a lease make sense. Therefore, I was wondering about the actual purchase price vs. lease costs on this forum. Thanks. I wish I could lease, it makes alot more sense if you keep the car a short time.

kyfdx · May 2007

If you read the leasing posts, you'll see that almost everyone lists their selling price vs. the MSRP...

You can use that info for buying the same vehicle..

regards,
kyfdx

circlew · May 2007

Also, leasing doesn't make you less of an enthusiast. The money you saved just makes you a financially advanced one that likes to drive as opposed to merely getting from one place to another!

dougsilver · May 2007

Is there a basic primer regarding the terms that are thrown around like "money factor", etc. In the one or two times I talked to brokers about leasing, my impression was that you did NOT negotiate price--the sticker price was the price. Am I wrong?

Also, I am usually in the position where I have a decent amount to put down to keep the monthly payments low. With leasing, my impression is that you want to put down as little as possible so the monthly payments end up more than I would end up with by purchase. I put on only about 5000 miles a year on my car (more or less) so from that point of view, leasing could be an option. But I also understand that you cannot do much to the car to "personalize" or
tune--is that not the case?

Finally, as I mentioned, I tend to keep cars 5+ years which apparently argues against leasing for me.

JingleJill · May 2007

Calm down... More power to everyone who can actually afford to purchase a BMW. I just know, down here (South Texas) that most people cannot afford to actually purchase one, which is why they lease them. That is from numerous BMW sales people who flat out tell me this. Their goal is to get people into BMWs no matter what it takes. So down here a lease is "affordable" for people and they just want to say they drive a BMW. All the cars are ordered the same way; automatic, premium package, and that's about it... Don't get in a tiff again, I know, that is how some people want their cars. That is just how they sell them down here... I agree though, no matter if you purchase or lease, you should look at the selling price. If you are not careful, they'll do their best to screw you over on the lease terms. Again, know some BMW finance people; that is where they make their money...

circlew · May 2007

I'm calm JJ, no offense taken!

I agree and appreciate your feedback and I know some purchase as a status symbol. For me, the status is nice but the driving experience really is the key.

As you noted, you need to do your due diligence financially when you go to market! This board is invaluable and there are many here that are very knowledgable to help anyone get the best deal leasing or buying.

Regards,
OW

kyfdx · May 2007

First.. the selling price of leased cars is definitely negotiable.. and, the price of the car is one of the main variables in the monthly payment.

Also, you are correct... put down as little as possible on a lease..

You are paying for a certain amount of use on a lease... a time period, but also a certain number of miles.. If this doesn't match up to your use, whether you drive a lot more.. or a lot less, then leasing may not be for you.

Here is a link to the leasing articles on Edmunds.

regards,
kyfdx

losangelino · May 2007

Has anyone received any good deals on the new 335i coupes through dealers in and around LA? Almost every dealer I talked to was unwilling to budge from MSRP. I understand the high demand for the coupe and the short supply but there have to be deals out there.

Or maybe now is just not a good time to buy. Perhaps prices will start to drop toward the end of the summer, into fall and thanksgiving? :confuse:

tcn2k · May 2007

Have you tried Nick Alexander Bmw?

carnutfan · May 2007

your deal looks ok, but i can't tell how much over invoice you're paying. also, put down 7 msd's. you get them back at lease end and you'll lower your payment substantially.

adethier · May 2007

I went to check out the new 3 series convertible... what a bummer! My initial bummer is that it only comes with run flat tires and no spare. Seeing that we take tons of trip far form the city, this will not do. (i've had bad experiences my my girlfriend's car). Also, no trunk space, but that was somewhat expected.
Finally, I have the old convertible and this new version has no back seats! Perhaps it was built for a different market. For a tall guy like me (I'm 6"3) means it's now a 3-seater. Other than that, i was impressed by how quickly the top retracted and of course the car looks good... but those damn RFTs will keep me away from the purchase. (No need to comment back that i can switch the rims and get a donut in the trunk - i checked and the trunk is not big enough)

pepperjack · May 2007

A BMW dealer, located 150 miles from my house, is delivering my 328i to my home on Monday for an extra $150. Is that unusual? I like it. The final deal we agreed to, and for which they faxed me a copy of the lease w/ the BMW's VIN, is:

328i; 3 yr; 36,000 miles; options: sprt pkg, nice flr mats

MSRP: 34,775
Adj Cap Cost: 34,000
MF: 0.00091
Sec Dep: $3600
Res: 63%

The MSRP is the only part of the deal I am not completely satisfied with. It does not take into account the floor mats, with MSRP of $120. This is because the dealer is, "Throwing them in for free." Basically, by leaving them off, the residual value is lowered and I will pay $80 more over the term of my lease. I am torn how to react to this. On the one hand, I suppose I could just keep the mats at the end of the lease, and either sell them on e-bay or use them in my next BMW. On the other hand, I could get back about $75 at the end of my lease by purchasing the BMW at the lower residual value. Any thoughts on that?

In any event, I am very pleased. On or about 26 April 2007, I made offers to 6 dealers, giving them 12 weeks to get the BMW I wanted. The one I chose to work with is delivering my BMW to my front door on Monday - less than 3 weeks from the date of my first offer - and beat the nearest offer by $770.00 (and that takes into account the $150 delivery and $80 floor mat issues).

I will post an update after Monday. In the meantime, please let me reiterate my appreciation to all those who have helped me with this process.

-PJ

lokki · May 2007

Just a warning that not all BMW salesmen are above using the 'classic' car salesman tricks.

I've owned 3 3-series over the last few years, all purchased from BMW of Dallas. When I had my car in for service the other day, I decided to stop to flirt with my salesperson - nice guy and, obviously, a good salesman.

I discovered he'd retired by seeing a new person at his desk. Ok; I decided to talk to him - "not serious, but if you have something interesting let me know. My car has 56K so it's time to start thinking about a replacement. "

He suggests a CPO car he has as a lease return...same year as mine - identically equipped - and even the same color. The difference - this identical car has 10,900 miles on it vs my 56K.

Very interesting - the car has a sticker price in the window that is pretty reasonable.

I call the salesman the next day to say I'm interested. We agree to meet the following day to appraise my car and dicker to a deal. Edmunds matches what the window sticker asks for the CPO car and gives a number for mine in "Good" condition about 9K less than the 'new' car. Given my payoff I can see a very quick and easy deal being made. A 48 month loan and away we go. Since my credit is very good, there are no worries there.

Then the story gets sad.

1. When I arrive at the lot, I see the dealership has approximately a dozen newly arrived cars. I see my choice marked as "Hold" with my salesman's name -AND a tag in the windshield dropping the price 2K and touting the wonderful deal this makes the car. Excellent! Guess the manager said that that car has to go to make room for the new stock.

Then my salesman tells me that
a. "My car" has been sold to someone else. Odd that he'd sell it for $2k less when he knows I'm coming to buy it for 2K more, but OK......

b. He has, of course, other more expensive cars. However, when we look, the lowest milage car he has available has 19K miles on it. Hmmm, not so good.

c. I ask him to appraise my car anyhow, since I'm here.

d. While he's gone I'm left to sit. His desk has someone at it, so I'm placed at a different desk. OK. Bored, I pick up what I think is a BMW brochure. Nope, it's the CPO paperwork for the car that's sold; car fax, inspection, certificate and all the paperwork is unassigned. This car isn't sold

When he returns, he delivers the bad news... my car is worth $2K less than Edmunds says. OK this happens, and if his "sold" car is down $2K and my trade is down 2K, it's a wash from the deal I was willing to do anyhow.

So, I tell him I hope that the deal with the person who has bought 'my car' doesn't go through.... as that's the only car I'm interested in. I don't yell, I don't make accusations - I don't care as long as the final deal is reasonable. I give no indication that I'm aware he's lied - there's no advantage to doing so, is there?

But hearing that I'm not interested in any other car, he looks panicky and tells me that "the other guy is getting his own financing, and it looks a little shaky". Right.....

So suddenly, just out of the blue, he asks for my car loan information on my current car. I give him (foolishly, boys and girls) a payment slip with the loan details on it. He leaves.

When he returns, he has a offer sheet - I glance at the numbers and walk out. Same year and model as my car, but only 10K miles? The lowest thing in the lot was 10,900, and it was the 'sold car'.

He's taken my current payment information and set the proposed deal to reach the exact same payment number. Oddly enough, this loan is for 60 Months :confuse: when my numbers had shown an easy payoff in 48. :confuse:

Then I look to see what he's done. HE'S RAISED THE PRICE OF THE CAR ABOVE THE INITIAL PRICE BY $5,000. Sigh :sick: in order to make the payment come out to my current payment, something had to give, and it was the price of the car! And remember, it's UP $7K from the price the dealer is now putting in the window.

So let's review here:

Car "sold"
Car not "sold"
A "your payments will stay the same" deal stretched to 60 months.
A $5K to $7K JUMP from window sticker.
An offer for a car that doesn't exist, judging from 10K versus 10.9K statement on the offer.
We won't even mention the low-ball on the trade-in,
as that can be subjective...

I couldn't walk out fast enough. I didn't expect to be treated to these used car tactics at a BMW dealership.

Guess my 4th one will come from a different dealer.

I sure miss my old salesman at BMW of Dallas.

kyfdx · May 2007

BMWFS won't let them residualize the floor mats.. Feel free to keep them, if that makes you happy..

Your deal looks pretty good... $150 to save a 5 hour round trip seems like a fair deal to me..

kyfdx · May 2007

I don't mind the sales 'tactics' to extract more money... It's the flat out lying that I can't stand...

lokki · May 2007

Exactly. I wasn't upset by a little polite social fiction. Even the "sold" ; "not sold" was disappointing but wouldn't have stopped the sale.

I could deal with that.

However, does this guy really think that BMW customers are so naive that he can get away with increasing the term of the loan and pitching the "your payments will stay the same" when he has to RAISE the price of the car to do it??????

You can see (I hope) why I still feel like my intelligence has been insulted.

Oh - and the guy is still using his "Auto-Nation" email id..... guess that's the way you do business there...

donnabgood1 · May 2007

IMO it would be worth it to go over this salesman's head and complain to the GSM (gen sales mgr) how you wanted to do business with them for a 4th time, and were happy with the set selling price of the car, and that this salesman resorted to used car sales tactics that left you feeling like you needed a shower afterwards..tell the gsm you have been a loyal customer of their service department also, and give him an opportunity to make the deal right for you..they spends thousands every month advertising their dealership and your bad word of mouth is not only losing you as a customer but, it is also costing them much more than the ad'l profit your salesman was trying to extract from you..in all fairness the gsm probably does not even know how poor of a job this salesman is doing, and what he is costing the dealership, and perhaps, just maybe they will do their best to earn your business again. It is worth a try anyway..why should you be inconvenienced just because they made a bad hire with this salesman?

Good luck.
Regards,
Donna

dougsilver · May 2007

Well if you believe in car salemen with integrity then step right up to buy this bridge I have :shades:

pepperjack · May 2007

Just got back from my first drive - they were able to drop it off today. This is my first bmw, and so far: I can see getting use to this real easy. For anyone purchasing a BMW in Louisiana, I recommend Walker BMW.

dhanley · May 2007

Hey doug.

Many BMW owners buy, of course. If they do, they have a lot less to discuss on these forums... The buying process is much simpler and has fewer variables. Pretty much the only effect is getting the lowerst price possible. Loan rates are easier to figure out. So you have a bit of selection problem.

I think that general equitable apprasial of the lease vs buy calculation is that leasing in the long run is slightly more espensive than buying. Sometimes, buying is cheaper, but i don't think this is generally the case.

On the other hand, leasing can be simpler because of a number of factors. You have a known (low) payment, don't cut into your savings and capital, and won't incur costs for repair outside of the warranty period. You also are insulated from trade-in shock of you want out of the car after a known period of time.

I think that you have to look at these benefits and decide if it's worth it.

Let's suppose you have a new $40K BMW and you negotiate down to 37.5K for it.

Let's say you buy it with $6k down and your loan is at 7%. Your payments will be $571/mo. Over the two warranty-free 2 trailing years you could expect maintenence/repair on the car to run, say, $1500. That pushes your effective payment to $591/mo.

For a 36 month lease there's $900 up-front costs ( maco, inception, etc). The money factor is .00167. There's 6% sales tax, and the lease payment ( 0 down ) is $567/mo. There's also the disposition fee ($375). So it's effectively $577/mo. If your car has been damaged at all ( dings, etc ) your end-of-lease fees could push your effective payment over $600/mo. It's worse if you have to replace tires just over wear near the end of the lease.

So the main difference is you had to put 6K down. In the purchase scenario, you have a car. In the lease scenario, if you squirreled that potential downpayment away, you have $9000 after a 7% return. According to kbb, a 2001 330i around here in "good" shape ( not excellent ) goes for $13,810 private-party.

But the numbers could go either way, depending. I think people like the idea of leasing, because they like the idea of being able to simply afford an eternally new BMW in the driveway, and they sometimes let this color their arguments on the topic. But i'm open to leasing my next car if the numbers work out well for me, i move out of illinois, etc.

donnabgood1 · May 2007

I am having such a difficult time deciding which term is better. You can't tell by the monthly payment alone which makes mores sense. It's only a savings of 14 dollars a month to choose 36. My first leased 2005 BMW 325i was a 2 year lease and it just zoomed by. I have leased cars since 92, and always by year 2 I was ready for a new car.. not so with the BMW. I really hated having to be the market again so soon -- but then things worked out beautifully because I am now in an 07 loaded for roughly 10 dollars more a month..here is the kicker, and another reason why I can't decide to go 36 or 24. the pros for the 36 month lease are I have a great money factor, who knows if that can be repeated in the future. the pros of the 24 month term is I will be in a new car sooner, and just as I thought the bmw could not get any better in 05, the improvements are quite a bit. leather instead of leatherette, bmw assist, 4 years,park assist, and real time traffic info w/ navigation,230 hp as opposed to 184, apple usb hook up and comfort access. new features my 05 did not have..will I be saying the same in 09..I know Dodge is coming out with satelitte tv for their cars, like jet blue moniters..just when you think they have thought of it all, something new and improved comes along. Plus I will proably try and sell my car privately at the end of lease..and selling it may be easier with 2 years of remaining warranty left, lower mileage, and not competing with all the 3 years leases that BMW has returned and that they CPO and sub vent the program in some way, like lower interest rates, 2 payments free etc..plus just generally less competation in selling a 2 year old car vs. a 3 year old car. I had a GREAT experience selling my 05,(keep in mind the end of 05 was dealer cash, so I had a discount from MSRP of about 4820) (the new 07 has a discount of only 2650 from MSRP) I sold for 2k less than I paid for it in 05..of course that is amazing, and who's to say if history will repeat itself 2 years from now.. that whole thing is like trying to catch lightening in a bottle..but I am just wondering when you choose the term of your lease what influences your decision? Thanks for reading this far, and any input you would offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Donna

kyfdx · May 2007

If you run into a really good lease deal on a car that you want... I'd say you are better off with the 36 month term.

Also... you are amortizing your upfront costs over 36 months vs. 24 months.. If you add up the total cost of the lease and divide by the term, it will tilt more in favor of 36 months..

Plus, with a BMW, you'll still be under the warranty and maintenance plan for the whole term.. And, you'll have an extra year until you have to start thinking about the whole thing again.

regards,
kyfdx

hugo5 · May 2007

msrp was quoted at $35920 for a 328 i with gray metalic paint, automatic with power seats.
Dealer offered $399/month with $625 bank fee, $1255.36 tax (8.25 in New York, so I don't see where she got that), but tax is normally required upfront here, and $67.50 DMV (also wrong, I think. will probably be double for just rolling over old plates), so $2346.83 due at signing..She said, that this was the best deal she could give me.
I am looking for a 36 month lease with 10 000 miles. (Don't need more, drove my last BMW 6000 miles a Year.)
What do you come up with?
Hugo

donnabgood1 · May 2007

thanks KYFDX. I really respect your opinion and knowledge alot..and you could proably tell I was leaning towards a 24 month lease when I wrote my post..but after your advice I realize 36 may be the way to go, and who knows in year two if so desired I can always try to sell my car privately. Believe it or not I work as an F&I Manager for an American manufactuer, and work so close to home and long hours, that I only put on about 3-4k miles a year..people love low mileage cars, and I take really care of my cars so they are an easy sell for me..

here's one more question..I custom ordered my car at the end of March, ,locked in a good rate of .76 after max security dep..and to use a car term I was a total laydown (meaning I said yes to everything when I ordered the car) prem. package, xenon adaptive, cold weather, navigation, park assist, comfort access, apple usb, and logic 7..the only things I said no to was adaptive cruise and steering. I didn't get the sport package either because I thought it would be diffcult for my mom who is in her 80's to get in and out of the car.. she is the orginial BMW lover in the family so I have to accomdatee her needs, without her I enthusuiasm for the BMW cars , I don''t what I'd be driving..

The other thing I said no to was Sirrus sat. radio, now I wish I hadn't..and now that my car is en route from Munich, I can add the feature, but it would not be residualized, though I am sure I can add to it the capitalized cost.. what do you think a fair cost would be including installation. I am guessing 595 plus tax, does that seem about right? Do you think it will sound and look as good even though it was not done at the factory, or did I really miss the boat on this? It was just one of those things where I was saying yes to everything, that I felt I had to say no to something..now I fear if I don't get it, my ownership experience will always be reminded by the one thing I did say no to...

Thanks again for all your help..really I would say this lease aqquistion has been one of the best. I would not have known about max security deps had it not been for you, and miminizing drive offs as much as possible. A million thanks.

Donna

kyfdx · May 2007

No idea on the Sirius... but, you are right.. whatever the cost, it'll be all on you.. I doubt the dealer can residualize it..

Good luck!
kyfdx

kyfdx · May 2007

Here is what I think we have..

$35920 MSRP
$34490 Selling price
MF .0014
64% Residual
3yr/30K lease

Payment = $399.95/mo.

Due at signing = 1st payment ($400), acq.fee ($625), tax ($1255), DMV ($68) = $2340 approx.

A couple of notes

1) Selling price of $1430 off MSRP... not too bad for a base car. Around $1360 over invoice, by my calculations..

2) Tax is charged on the total payments + acq.fee.. and, upfront (alternatively, added into the cap cost). I get $1140.. but, close enough.

3) Base money factor and acquisition fee, which is good.

There really isn't much more room to trim here.. At $1360 over invoice, you might be able to shave $300-$400 off, but that would be stretching it.. (you might not..)

The current lease program is decent, and this is a fair deal... I always like to roll taxes and acquisition fee into the lease payment, but it looks like you are trying to hit that $400/mo. payment. It looks like your dealer is being straight with you.

regards,
kyfdx

hugo5 · May 2007

thanks for that! I didn't know about the aquisition fee. this is not added to the msrp when I calculate the residual, right? so, what she called a bank fee is called the aquisition fee, right? how can I find out how much it should be? Is there a calculation, or could I call BMW financial, to see if it's correct? Is there a way of getting out of it?

hugo5 · May 2007

I did another calculation, using edmunds for the MSRP and invoice price, and figured a sales price somewhere in the middle. This is not an offer, just wishful thinking and I wanted to see if I am getting it right now. Would you mind checking it?

BMW 328i with heated seats/metallic (0.0014 MF - 64% residual) value
$32,470 (sales price) - $34,150 (edmunds MSRP)- $31,470(edmunds invoice price)
$21856(residual)
$10614(depriciation) - 294.83 month + 76.05MF = 370.88/month total

$927.22 (tax on depr. and aquisition fee @8.25)
+370.88 (first month)
+625.00 (bank/aquistion fee)
=1923.10 (out of pocket)
+ DMV

Now this is something I could afford..

kyfdx · May 2007

Acquisition fee is the bank fee.. $625 is base.. dealer can mark it up to $825, if they wish..

You can't get around it... it goes to BMWFS.

I think New York taxes the total payments, not just the depreciation... that's why your calculation differs from the dealer. If I'm wrong and you are right, then make sure your dealer calculates it correctly.

Otherwise, your numbers appear to be correct. If you can get the dealer to sell for that price. Your dealer does seem to be quoting reasonable deals, overall.

regards,
kyfdx

hugo5 · May 2007

so what you are saying is, I might have to pay taxes on all monthly payments, including the mf, so if I were to get the deal above, it would be 370.88 x 36= 13351.68 meaning $1101.51 tax (8.25), correct? This won't effect my monthly payments, unless I roll over and will bring my total out of pocket up tp $2097.39, which still is only $100 more than I wanted to spend.
Man, every time I think I got it, there is something else. I have been reading nothing but information about leasing cars. My wife thinks I am going crazy...I wake up in the morning, calculating leases ; )
Thanks for all your input. I am going to the dealer within the next week, and I wanna be totally prepared and able to check and do all calculations.

kyfdx · May 2007

Don't forget the 8.25% tax on the acquistion fee, also.. Another $50..

hugo5 · May 2007

Just talked to the dealer. The tax in Brooklyn is actually 8.37.....this is a different dealer then the one I quoted before. He is the guy I got my last BMW from, who says he will do everything to get me into another BMW..just not on my terms, haha.

For the same car, he says he would go down to 33 and change, $2300 down and $409 a month. He says he doesn't know how I get to what I quoted him, but also doesn't wanna look at it. He says he does it by BMW calculations and has no time to go over mine. I did the calculations again, this time based on $33 000 cap cost for a $34 645 msrp, and still came out way below him.
Am I doing something wrong? I don't get it:
It's based on a 328i in Saphire black metallic/automatic transm. with power seats, based on $33 000 cap cost.

$34,645 msrp ( $31,920 invoice price)
$33 000 sales price
$22 172.8 residual

$10827.2 depr.= 300.76 + 77.24(MF) = $378.00/month total payment

$1192.01 (8.375% tax on total monthly payments + $625 acquisition fee)

+$625.00 bank fee/acquisition
+$378 (first month)
=$2195.01 (total out of pocket, not including DMV)

dougsilver · May 2007

So it sounds like the BIG issue is whether or not you have money to put down (or maybe you have money but want to keep it in the bank or invested). I have always wanted to keep the payments as low as possible by putting down a fairly decent amount. I expect on my next purchase, I will be putting down $20,000 more-or-less. I understand the argument from those who say that I am an idiot for not investing the $20k somewhere else. But I guess the real key is that I keep cars 5 years or more and have rarely been in a situation where 2 years after buying a car I wanted to replace it (as you must do with a lease).

pepperjack · May 2007

Four new things have come up. The first three are quick. First, the clutch squeaked a tiny bit after my first couple drives. I looked online and that appears to be a not-infrequent problem. In any event, it appears to have corrected itself and made no noise today.

Second, the BMW was delivered with only a 1/4 tank of gas. Is that normal?

Third, apparently tire/wheel insurance is availbe. For my 36 mo lease of a 2007 328i w/ sports package, the insurance costs $519.00. The brochure I was given indicates the total costs resulting from a flat can be up to $775.00. Further, I have read on other forums specifically devoted to problems with the Bridgestone run-flats on BMWs that these costs are pretty accurate. I need help making this decision - I am tempted to get the insurance. Any thoughts?

Fourth, during the negotiating process, the dealer faxed me a copy of the lease on 27 April 2007. We made a few adjustments, and he faxed me another one that same day. All of the numbers on the lease were fine, except that the lease start date was listed on there as 27 April 2007, with my payments to be due on the 27th of each month thereafter. I told the dealer that the date would have to be adjusted to reflect the actual date of delivery. I thought he agreed.

In any event, when the BMW was delivered to me on 12 May 2007, the lease that came with it had a start date of 30 April 2007, with payments to be due on the 30th of each month thereafter. I told the delivery guy I needed to talk to the salesman, and so I called the dealership. No dealers were going to be available for 1/2 hour. The delivery guy was in a big hurry and could not wait. My salesman was on vacation - which I knew already - and so I called his mobile phone and left a message about the situation. The delivery guy represented to me that we could alter the contract, and so we changed all the 30ths to 12ths, both of us initialing each change.

This morning I received a call from my salesman - he told me that the alterations made on the lease made it void, and that we had agreed that the 30th of April was the day the lease would start b/c the lease rates changed in May and the only way to keep the deal I had was by submitting the lease to BMW Financial on the last day of April: and that BMW FS required us to use that exact lease - dates and all.

I informed him that the lease factors for May were the same as in April, so this really should not be a problem. To this, he replied he would need to check his books - that I may be right, and he did not really know.

So then he said that the 12 days really didn't affect me b/c, at the end of my lease, BMW would offer me incentives like an early buy-back, and offer to pay the last 2 months of my lease to encourage me to lease another BMW. I informed him that I looked forward to that, but that the last 2 months of my lease should begin 34 months after I actually received the BMW, as opposed to 34 months from 30 April 2007.

Next he said that, in any event, this would cause problems with his dealership's internal record-keeping - that b/c BMW FS offers certain incentives to dealers, that the $160 difference I was making an issue of (e.g., my monthly lease payment is approx. $420, and 12/31 of 420 is about 160) may actually cost the salesman $500 or $600.

The end result is that he is Fedexing me a lease, due to arrive tomorrow morning for my execution and return. I hope it says the 12th.

webjeff · May 2007

Hello,

I'm looking to purchase a 335i new. I'm on here wondering what if any I can negotiate with a dealer a price off of MSRP. I was told if I order that I can only get it for MSRP.

Is that correct? What type of discounts can I count on?

Thanks
Jeff.

donnabgood1 · May 2007

It sounds like your dealer proably earned a month end bonus for selling you the unit in April. I am unclear -- why did it take so long for them to deliver it to you then?

Your delivery person made a huge mistake by allowing you to cross out anything and initialing anything -- you just voided the contract and your BMW dealership does not have a cash able contract any more..it puts you in a power position, now it's a matter of how nice you want to be about the whole thing.

If it was me, because I know mistakes can be made I would ask them what they can do to make your experience better, that you're a reasonable person and you don't want anyone to lose out on bonuses, but the terms were unclear to you that they were dating the contract on the 30th..make them give you that road hazard insurance at cost.. I am guessing it has a cost of about 85-150 It is only a guess because of the RFT it may or may not be a little more or less in either direction)..call things even if they do.. it's a win-win for you both..as far as the 1/4 gas tank, you should have a full tank on delivery of a new car, but sounds like the car was driven to you with a full tank of gas and you got the remainder.. don't know if you were expecting a flat bed delivery for your 150 delivery surcharge but if you weren't, then I guess that is not as bad a faux pas on their part..

anyway I am all for salespeople making money but it should not cost you any more money than agreed upon and grief in the process..

just negoaite something that is fair to all concerned and I am sure you will be happy with your BMW..

Good luck.

Donna

PS: I betcha most likely what will happen is that your new contract that you receive via Fed Ex tomorrow will still be dated April 30th, and they will have adjusted and reduced the cap cost by the 160-200, It still would not hurt to be a good sport about the whole thing and have them throw in the road hazard insurance at cost. Believe me, they do not want the car back.. I can promise you quite a few people are in trouble back at the dealership and your good will about this would go a very long way..

pepperjack · May 2007

As best I can tell, the BMW was in Arkansas somewhere while we were negotiating in April, and did not arrive here in Louisiana until after 4 May 2007. They said they wanted to look it over once they got it - make sure everything was in order before delivering it to me.

Regarding your advice on negotiating the RFT insurance - I like that idea.

Regarding the gas, my BMW was delivered via flat bed. It had only 21 miles on it when I got it.

nizo53 · May 2007

What are each BMW security deposit? I heard 450 and 600. My dealer in FL said I can put up to 8 MSD @ 600 each. It will save me 42 a month off my payment. I also need to pay tax on the MSD upfront? What is it? Anyone know?

donnabgood1 · May 2007

well I just went back and re-read your orginial post PepperJack. The more I think about it, the more I don't like how magnamious your salesman was with your money saying it was only 160 dollars and you were risking him losing a 500 dollar bonus.. your money is just as important as his and he should be reminded of that..and the fact that he told you BMW usually picks up the last two payments is another thing to make me trust him less. As far as I know BMW does not offer a pull ahead program (the term for the finance company paying off a lease early with you re-lease a new car) I have only heard of that on 39 month terms not 36.. that's why they market 39 month leases, to save you the registration renewal fee and to p/u the last 3 months..you could bust him simply by asking him to put that in writing about BMW paying the last two payments on your car....

Your absolutely should have had a full tank of gas -- and I am surprised at all the mis-steps that happened with your delivery..again it is not worth it to let it sour your experience..getting a brand new BMW is one of the nicer achievements in life and these mistakes made by your dealership should not take away from that feeling. Nonetheless there is a way to be nice and still get something that will make you feel better about this whole deal..

I am a Finance manager at a car dealership and this would be my worst nightmare if I were your salesperson...I tend to go overboard for mistakes like this to make them right because I know buyer's remorse can kick in and if you are not feeling right about things and cancel the deal there goes hell to pay at work..his first mistake was not over righting you the paperwork with it was prepared, proably on the 29th or 30th..you both could have both corrected any misunderstandings then..and having a tow truck driver disclose the lease contract was an even bigger mistake... now they have no cash able contract and you have the car, racking up miles..and no enforceable financial responsbilty whatsoever... yikes for them. the second thing it does not take 7 days to look over a dealer trade -- your salesman got lazy, knew he had a sure sale, and did not get the dealer trade for you the same day..he earned a very nice commission and was out spending the money instead of thinking of follow through.

anyway this is all well and good..but the more I think about it, the more I think you would be within your rights to expect a reduced cap cost of 200 (and/or lowered aqq fee to 625) My best guess if that is the only thing they can do -- I really don't think they can re-date the contract -- that is one way to make up for the 160 plus another 40 for the balance of a fuel tank) and I think you should ask for road hazard tire insurance to be thrown in at no charge and then you can compromise with them if you like to share the cost...

anyway I wish you lots of luck and sorry you are going thru this..

Donna

donnabgood1 · May 2007

sec dep is to the next highest 50 increment point of your payment. so if you payemt is 501-549 you sec dep is 550 each. if your payment is 551-599 your sec dep is 600. hope that helps Nizo53.

jack1000 · May 2007

Hi: I think this is a pretty good deal but I'd like your opionions.

335i Sport/Auto/Metallic

36 months/10000 miles year

MSRP 43125

Sale Price: 41430

M.F .00175

Due at signing: 2854.90

This includes:

First Payment: 506.80

NJ Sales tax: 1329.64

Bank Fee: 625

Document Fee: 125

NJ 3 year registration: 268.50

payment is 506.80

If I do max multiple security deposits it goes down to $473.

hugo5 · May 2007

Hi Kyfdx,
How acurate is the invoice price listed on edmunds.com.
When I checked, the 328i with powerseats, metallic paint and automatic was listed as $33,130, two dealers that I dealt with insist that their invoice price is $34, 210 , over 1k more, which leaves no room for negotiations
I was also offered a 39 month lease now, which I don't know any of the calculations for again..would you know the residual and mf for that?

trusaleen1 · May 2007

I want to get some numbers for a 335i Coupe

Im looking for Black with Black Leatherette, 6-speed manual and Sport package. This is for 12,000 a year. Im open to either 24 or 36 months depending on the best deal

On Edmunds it states MSRP is $42,645 and Invoice is $39310

I have about $1000 equity in a trade and want to put down $1500 cash.

I would love to be at under $500 for the payment plus tax. Is this possible, what residual and money factor is a good deal and whats an accurate price. I live in CA tax rate is 8.25%.

Any help is greatly appreciated, plus can anyone recommend a good dealer in northern cali.

kyfdx · May 2007

The numbers on Edmunds are accurate.. The dealer may have other costs that are variable, like MACO, which is a regional fee for dealer advertising... Extras like that could add up to $400-$600, but nowhere close to the amount they are claiming.

I don't worry about the dealers' claim of invoice price. I do my research, and offer what seems to be on the lower end of achievable pricing.. The dealer's profit or loss on my deal is not my concern. I'm pretty sure they won't accept a deal that is not in their best interest, nor will I.

kyfdx · May 2007

335i coupe
3yr/36K lease
60% Residual
.00185 MF

$42645 MSRP
$39265 CAP cost to achieve $500/mo. payment

Due at signing: 1st pymt ($542), Security deposit ($550), acq.fee ($625), title/license ($350) $2077 total...

In addition to the $2077, you'll need enough of a CAP cost reduction (down payment) to make up the difference between the selling price and the proposed CAP cost of $39,265.

If you assume a $1000 discount from MSRP, you'd need another $2380 to get down to that number.. or $4357 total due at signing...

Get a bigger discount, then less needed upfront.. But, on a relatively low-optioned 335i coupe? Big discounts probably aren't there... With $2500 to work with, getting to $500/mo.+tax looks doubtful.

regards,
kyfdx

trusaleen1 · May 2007

Thanks Kyfdx, ok, so lets assume I put down $3000, what do you think my payment will be on my above equiped car. So from the above numbers that you showed me, im looking at $542 with everything with 4357 down?

kyfdx · May 2007

Assuming a $1000 discount from MSRP (naturally, I don't know what you can negotiate... just an assumption), then the same deal with $3000 upfront, instead of $4357 will result in a payment that is $40/mo. higher (+tax), or about $585/mo. + tax..

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