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Comments
Black/Grey cloth
LOVE IT!
We are considering a 2003 4Runner, probably the base SR5 with leather. I have 2 questions I'm hoping the group can help with.
One, since we are nearing the end of the 2003 season, can anyone who's bought during this time in previous years comment on incentives given by Toyota and/or the dealer? I see a lot of companies are giving $1000 and up to $4000 I think from Ford. Will Toyota do something like this as we get closer to the 2004 models?
Also, TMV pricing seems to be under invoice by about $600. Is it really feasible to expect to get a truck for that much under invoice? I always thought its good to shoot for invoice, maybe a few hundred over, but I've never seen any site recommend shooting for below invoice. Is there something I am missing?
Thanks, Aaron
I just looked and Edmunds's TMV has not altered much, but Toyota is offering marketing assistance to dealers of $1000 on all 4Runners but the Limited. So I think you have the room to try for the extra 1k.
For an SR5 defiently DO NOT pay anything over invoice, if you do the dealer has won and around here we never let the dealer win. Toyota won't go as low as the domestic car makers. They don't need to. I believe they have a $1500 rebate right now.
Around here in Tampa, with 5-6 Toyota dealers within 30 minutes and with all of the trucks sitting on the lot, I'm hoping this will make them more eager to negotiate.
Aaron
As for the price, you should definitely shoot for below invoice. Go to kbb.com and check the invoice price with the options on the vechicle.
We are considering a 2003 4Runner, probably the base SR5 with leather. I have 2 questions I'm hoping the group can help with.
One, since we are nearing the end of the 2003 season, can anyone who's bought during this time in previous years comment on incentives given by Toyota and/or the dealer? I see a lot of companies are giving $1000 and up to $4000 I think from Ford. Will Toyota do something like this as we get closer to the 2004 models?
Also, TMV pricing seems to be under invoice by about $600. Is it really feasible to expect to get a truck for that much under invoice? I always thought its good to shoot for invoice, maybe a few hundred over, but I've never seen any site recommend shooting for below invoice. Is there something I am missing?
Thanks, Aaron
Dealers can make money even if they sell below invoice, thanks to manufacturer to dealer incentives, holdback, etc. So yeah, buying below invoice is entirely possible.
Browse around in here to see actual prices paid by other Town Hall members.
Steve, Host
The SR5 does not have a leather option...at least no Toyota dealer has one. You can get an aftermarket leather if you would like. Otherwise, you would need to buy the Limited model.
My experience was that $500 under invoice to invoice seems to be common on the ones with appearance packages. With cladding, you can get out the door for $2000 under invoice.
I personally paid $28,266 for an SR5 4x4 V8 with appearance package, roof rack, running boards, leather steering wheel, double-decker cargo system, and floor mats. They threw in flaps and it had pinstriping on it (who knows why...it was free anyways.) That was a great deal considering how picky we were.
I found the best method is to drive one...figure out exactly what you want, and then email a bunch of dealers stating:
1) What you exactly are looking for
2) You will buy if they find it and you can agree on a price
The dealer found 8 cars that matched, and I stated the price I would pay. He accepted my offer and I went to pick it up!
Good luck!
The cladding thing - I've heard this mentioned. Is this the ones with the black plastic over the wheelwells? Those are going much cheaper? Is it that now Toyota offers colored fender flares and the black ones are not selling? Do I have that right?
Thanks, Aaron
I personally liked it with the matching trim much more and was willing to pay a bit more to get what I liked. Some people do hardcore offroading and like the cladding because it resists scratching and such. That's up to you to decide.
With the 2004's coming out, you can pick up a 2003 now or wait until the 2004's come out. If you're not too picky, wait until the '04s hit the lots and pick up an '03 even cheaper.
Many dealers will try to play hardball on the 4Runners with the appearance package. Don't let them beat you. Just walk. Someone will sell for a good price.
I'll go for the V8 Sport with X-REAS.
Now, I'm trying to decide between an 03-04 4Runner and I'm sure your help guys will be helpful again.
Is it true that 04 will offer third row seats?
Could we expect a higher invoice price?
When is it suppossed to be in the dealeships?
I just came to this country and as you guys can imagine, I don't have credit history yet, so, they'll try to kill me with an awful APR. That's why I'll try to counteract those vipers with a nice downpayment, let's say 60% of the invoice price. Do you think I have a chance to get a decent APR in these conditions?
If you have subscribed to this discussion, the move should not interfere with your subscriptions.
Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience! Any questions can be emailed to me or Tidester.
Thanks!
Steve, Host
I'm taking a look tonight after work at the new 4Runner.
V6,
4x2,
JBL Synthesis 6 cd, 10 speaker, remote wireless,
side and curtain airbags,
spoiler,
daytime running lights,
extra mile option B4.
MSRP: 36,952.00
"Invoice": 33,792.50
Price paid: 32,400.00 + TTL
The dealer also threw in three years of free oil changes. I'm pretty satisfied with the deal. Good sales experience mostly because I avoided the "goons" on the sales floor. I'm convinced the dealer still made money on the deal, but at least it's coming mostly from Toyota rather than me.
My other concern is that both window stickers list four options absent on the pricing Web site: P4, WD, M5, and FE. I jotted them down (without descriptions, unfortunately) thinking I could look at them here, but they are not listed. I know that one is a sunroof deflector and another is EXPENSIVE carpet mats. (I prefer rubber.)
Ideas or comments about the others?
Running boards
Moon Roof
Double decker cargo self
daytime running lights
floor mats
rear cargo mat
rear spoiler
2003 Toyota 4runner 4X4 4DR SR5 SPORT V8
Delivered Internet Price: $31,283
Delivered Value Price: $31,622
Factory Invoice: $31,083 MSRP: $34,480
Sport Appearance Package - YU :
C7 Convenience Package
CM Double Deck Cargo System
DJ JBL Am/Fm/Cass/CD W/8 Speakers
DK Owners Portfolio
FE 50 State Emission Requirement
KG Black Running Boards
RF Rear Spoiler
SP Sport Plus Package
SR PWR Tilt/Slide Moonroof
TR Transportation Charge
WH Wireless Headphones
WL Wheel Locks
As for the price to offer for a demo, I considered one or two demos and did some research and talked to the GM of one dealership. From these 2-3 sources it seemed to be reasonable to deduct about 50 cents/mile for this vehicle. That's one opinion to factor into the mix.
Edmunds TMV=$32,847
Their invoice=$33,204, including a realm of holdbacks, advertising fees, etc.
Edmunds invoice=$32,092 but does not include $259.80 "port options."
I offered $32,600. The manager has countered with $200 less than their invoice ($3752 less than sticker).
Before all this, I tried the Edmunds e-mail price request, selecting four of the five dealerships listed. I had an immediate response that one of the four was not participating. Another responded with an invitation to visit the dealership (including a map). One responded "talk to you later" (two days ago). I have yet to hear from the fourth.
So, for other newbies here, the price request does not seem to work. The information that you carry with you, however, does seem to have an impact. It was obvious today that the salesmen and managers knew that I had done some homework.
I have not decided what to do, but I feel I have some leverage. There are many cars and dealerships!
Hope this helps somebody.
Anyone know what TDA is? Just the dealer trying to pull a fast one?
I walked.
The dealer showed me his invoice. It had a TDA of $345. He explained that this was (are you ready?) the Texas Dealers' Association fee. You were near Boston. Go figure! Are they paying the Texas Dealers' Association?
My advice is, keep walking. I have tried 5 times over the years to purchase a Toyota from this same dealership, and I have yet to buy one, although my family has bought two from other places "on the rebound." I guess enough people fall for the tactics to keep them in business.
The invoice I have has a TDA charge on it for $706.
The charge is legit.
I too have had a recent surprise when attempting to "deal" with a local Toyota Dealership.
After doing a significant amount of homework online (Well know Consumer Magazine, Edmunds and Kbb reports), I approached several dealerships in the Houston area for quotes, hoping to land something in the vicinity of "Invoice". Imagine my surprise when I found that the three reports above had an "Invoice" price some $1600 less than what Toyota Dealers consider their "Invoice". What I got from Toyota Dealers in the Houston area is the following "Invoice" adders:
1.) Dealer Holdback - $585 (expected)
2.) Port Install Holdback - $85 (varies with Port Install adders, but I insisted on Leather only for SR5)
3.) Advertising Fund + TDA + Dealer Reserve - $985
I haven't been exposed to such ancillary adders in the past, and did not know how negotiable they were.
Apparently not too negotiable per my experience.
It's an ad fee, and ad fees are mostly legit. Isn't TDA listed on the invoice?
As always, concentrate on your out-the-door price and let the dealer worry about how your money gets allocated.
Lalo2, I don't know why some option packs don't show up here. Toyota offers both factory and dealer installed options and it's too hard to keep track of the dealer installed stuff I guess.
Steve, Host
I didn't see the actual invoice from the dealer, so don't know if TDA was actually listed on it.
The breakdown the dealer communicated to me for "Invoice" included (in addition to the holdbacks) the following adders above the online services "Invoice" pricing:
TDA - $250
Advertising Fund - $405
Finance Reserve - $293
Not sure I understand why Toyota has an Advertising Fund allocation of $405, if TDA is also an advertising fee.
TDA is Toyota Dealer's Assoc. or similar, and is a charge from the assoc. to each dealer in a region for pooled advertising. Like it or not, this is what funds all those annoying TV ads and some newspaper ads, and the dealers can't opt out. It's generally viewed as legit, but it does cover an ordinary cost of doing business, and so one could argue that it doesn't belong (partially or in total) in calculations of invoice price.
The dealer shouldn't be charging YOU holdback. That's just money that the dealer gets back from the factory on a periodic basis. It's part of the dealer's profit, and should be SUBTRACTED from invoice to help arrive at the true dealer cost.
The same goes for financial reserve, as far as I can tell.
In the end, Steve_Host has it right, in my opinion. Focus on out-the-door price and let dealers compete to get you the best price. Lengthy debate about what the REAL dealer cost is can be a waste of time. If you must deal on the basis of invoice price, I'd say that you should start with the Edmunds listed invoice price of the base vehicle and options (which include port-installed options), and then add in TDA. After that it's up to you if you want to pay for other dealer-installed stuff like paint protection, etc.
Whenever I tell them that I know what the base MF and residual are, they tell me that they are just going by what came up on their leaselink computer. Is this just an excuse to pad their profit? How can I get a dealership to use the base MF and residual when calculating a lease for me?
Thanks for the input.
I'm pleased, or more correctly the wife is, and the car looks great.
I have contacted Joe Myers Toyota (290), Fred Haas Toyota Country (249), Fred Haas Toyota World (I45N) and Gullo Toyota (Conroe).
IMO out of the lot of them, Joe Myers Toyota has been the most informative and open during discussions, followed by Fred Haas Toyota Country.
Let me know how your experience goes.
Thanks for the reply. I have been in contact with Haas (I-45N) and Gullo in Conroe. Gullo Salesman was by far the most knowledgeable. I have not discussed price, as I want to order. Reason being is to avoid all the Gulf States added stuff. Sun Roof, spoiler, mop and glo ETC.... I plan to contact Sterling McCall and several others via internet department.
After searching several dealers in the Evansville-Owensboro-Louisville area this was by far the best deal.
MSRP was about $32,500 and I paid $28,700. Good buying experience.
MODEL: 2003 4Runner V8 LTD fully loaded with NAVIGATION
PRICE PAID: $39,576
EXPERIENCE: The whole haggling process took less than 20 minutes. I was armed with info from Edmunds.com and some competitors lowest prices that I obtained via email. Parkway Toyota was able to match that price with no problem. It was a nice experience overall.
Time Purchased: Aug, 2003
Interest rates are in the neighborhood of 5.5% (depending on your insurance rating). I was told by the dealer if your credit score is 730 or higher, you would qualify for the lowest rating, which I believe is about 4.99%. Depending on the life of the loan, this difference is significant.
Steve, Host
As I said, I walked into the dealer with a 3.84% rate from Etrade, and they beat it with a 3.7% rate. It's not 0%, but every little bit helps.
________
2003 4Runner LTD, White/Stone loaded
Happy Shopping...I love my 4RUNNER! I've had it less than a week and I have 350 miles on it.