I cannot understand why anyone who owns a BMW would even consider allowing a bunch of idiots at a franchise shop to service the braking system, but I guess that's just me-IMNSHO, performance and safety override saving a few dollars. Either find a good independent BMW tech or use the dealer. Do you really want to entrust your safety to a bunch of imbeciles who probably can't even spell "BMW"? To answer your other question, a dealer isn't needed to reset the brake lining light, but you will need a new pad wear sensor-something a good BMW shop should already have in stock.
I have to think the brochure must have a typo because it would not make any sense that the most expensive version of the e90 would not have that feature. I just checked the back of the Product Info book where they list all the features in each car and it's listed there too.
Or get a friend and do it yourself. Even if your not mechanically inclined, I think someone mentioned making their 10 yoa do their brake jobs.... :surprise:
Yes, the E46 3ers are pretty easy to work on; as for a ten year old doing the job, I'd think a child would do just as well or better than most franchises...
I owned a 2002 330I built in SA. I drove it 45K miles and gave it to my son last May when I purchased a German built 2006. The SA built 330I had it brakes, rotors and tires replaced and now has 55K miles with no problems. I can only hope the 2006 Fares as well.
There are also safety issue enhancements in the recent software upgrades. My dealer upgraded mine two months ago. a full upgrade took about 4.5 hours, so dont plan on waiting unless you have a good book to read.
I dont believe a BMW dealer will risk a date with the States Attorney General over a pretend oil change for $80.00. Secondly my dealer has one wall of glass in the customer service waiting lounge. You can drink free coffee latte, watch Plasma TV, read a book or play with your blackberry while watching your car being serviced.
My 2002 had a 36K Mile warenty. The brakes went at about 40K. The BMW dealer told me I had to put on new rotors with a brake pad change. I told them to turn down the rotors and just change the pads and wear indicator gizmos. They informed me they do not turn down rotors. There policy is when they replace pads they replace rotors or they wouldn't do the work. They said it was a safety issue. I checked with a Local Garage owned by former BMW Technicians and they wouldn't change Pads only. They informed me the BMW pads and Rotors are designed to fully wear at approxamatly the same time and if they replaced pads only the rotors would ware below tolerance while the second set of pads were still healthy. Thats what two different BMW dealers also told me. I spent $800.00 for new pads, rotors and ware sensors, Oil and filter change, and wheel balance. I did have them give me the old parts, they were worn pretty bad. I wont take old parts again, they were so heavy the town trash collectors wouldn't take them, They felt the rotors would damage the compactor on the truck. They left them in my driveway. I had to transport them to the local landfill myself. Thats my story.
My bet is that by turning the rotors and then slapping on new pads, you'd be able to get an easy 20,000 to 30,000 miles on that setup before you reached minimum (assuming that you had a few thousandths to play with after turning).
That having been said, when I do brakes on BMWs, I too buy new rotors. Why? To me at least I'd rather spend the ~$120 or so for a set of four new rotors than run around to a machine shop to get my rotors turned (that would mean jack the car up at all four corners, pull the old rotors, drive to the machine shop, wait around, drive home, and then finish the job). Buy a new set, slap them all on, and properly dispose of the remains, that's how I do it.
I'm thinking that the total time it takes to do the shopping for the parts (internet), the actual work and the trip to the recycling center isn't more than three to four hours on the outside (more like two and a half to three). Given that I can do a complete four wheel brake job (pads, rotors and sensors [if needed]) for about $250, I can easily justify getting my hands dirty. ;-)
I wonder how many BMW owners out there, specifically 06 3 series owners, are more than a bit irritated. Irriated at the fact that cars such as the Subaru Impreza STI and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution beat the BMW 3 series, and even the M3! in terms of 0-60 as well as other performance metrics for a fraction of the price?? I haven't even mentioned the G35 and IS350, which can rebute the arguments of refinement and luxurary. Let's face it folks, and yes.. YOU BMW Corporation, you're slipping. If your car costs more, fine!, at least justify it and but the competition to bed.
I'll be looking for a new car after my lease is over in about two years. I have my eye out for a new M3. This time, I'm gonna look around and not just go with the "getta BMW" instinct. You guys had better get your act together by then.
PS..Get your service and sales departments to be more POLITE and less jerky while you're at it. Maybe then, If I do decide to get another BMW, I might actually purchase the car from a dealer rather an on-line site like carsdirect or something.
With recent exceptions like the V10 M5, BMWs have never been the fastest car on the block. They just excel in providing the best driving experience. One thing I'm sure of after experience with several cars over the years: the most powerful and fastest car is often not the most enjoyable. For instance, my unreliable, pain in the rear VW GTi was much more satisfying and enjoyable to drive than my current, soon to be replaced, 2004 Acura TL. And the VW felt more stable and at home at 110+ speeds than does the 146 top end Acura. The numbers don't tell the whole story.
Everyone who's into these things has their own idea of what a BMW is. To me, it's a somewhat austere car with a distinctly different design philosophy that you can feel as soon as you get behind the wheel. It's a little quirky. It has a smooth, turbine like straight six (or perhaps a four) coupled with a transmission that feels like an extension of the driver. It's fundamentally not a luxury car (Jaguar, Lexus and Cadillac make very good ones), although it offers lots of expensive stuff to people who think they are buying one. My personal favorite: early '70s European spec BMW 3.0 CSi -- one of the most beautiful cars ever built.
The biggest danger for BMW is not in being no. 3 or 4 in the 0-60 league; it's in losing their direction as a manufacturer of drivers' cars and becoming entranced by expensive technology of doubtful benefit and unproven reliability. They may win a greater share of the market, but end up no longer building BMWs.
"Irriated at the fact that cars such as the Subaru Impreza STI and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution beat the BMW 3 series, and even the M3! in terms of 0-60 as"
The aforementioned cars are fast, but if one likes a bit of luxury and sophistication can you honestly say the STI and EVO provide that? They are no pretense cars without a modicum of luxury features. That is *NOT* the competition. I've never heard anybody seriously cross-shopping an 3L E90 with an EVO. Or an EVO with an M3. Maybe one insane person thinks the cars are equivalent in form and function.
PS..Get your service and sales departments to be more POLITE and less jerky while you're at it. Maybe then, If I do decide to get another BMW, I might actually purchase the car from a dealer rather an on-line site like carsdirect or something.
You can't lump your local dealership in with all the rest. They all act independently..... That one might be a bunch of jerks, but you'll find many BMW owners here that are absolutely satisified with their local service departments.
This time, I'm gonna look around and not just go with the "getta BMW" instinct.
Speaking as someone who actually did look around before buying a 3-series, I found it to be the best compromise of the cars I drove, including the TSX, G35, and Legacy GT.
I am very fond of Subaru, and I probably would have bought a Legacy GT Limited instead if it offered stability control. It's very different from the 3-series, but I found it to be quite fun to drive, and I would have absolutely no fundamental worries about owning it after the warranty expired, which is something I can't say about any BMW.
That said, I am still very happy with the 3-series. German cars have a certain feel to them that other manufacturers have been unable to replicate. I'm not saying that true driving enjoyment can only come from a German car--quite the contrary--who wouldn't love a Ford GT or a Nissan Skyline? But, BMW offers a great overall package of performance, safety, and comfort.
Also, I have experienced appalling sales and service departments at plenty of car dealerships--this problem is not confined to BMW. Long story short, franchise laws here in the US make it nigh impossible for a manufacturer to do anything about bad dealerships. Some, like VW, just don't care. BMW and others make some effort, but ultimately their hands are tied.
Only way it will go there is on a tow truck. Not just based on my own sales experience, but nearly everyone I've talked to who has had their BMW or VW serviced there has a horror story to tell.
I have the snow tires switched at Motorsports of Lexington, an independent Euro (mostly BMW) mechanic.
If I'm here in Lexington when the first service is called for, I will probably go to Louisville or Cincinnati to have it and any other warranty concerns taken care of.
Service at the Volvo store seems to be better now that Swope owns it. What's their loaner car policy? I think I remember kyfdx saying that the place in Cincinnati will give you one regardless of where you bought the car.
I have a 2006 BMW 330i. I came out of a 2003 Infiniti G35. Acceleration of the 330i is very good, though not class leading. It does 0 to 60 in about 6 seconds flat. Would I like it to be even faster? Of course I would. But acceleration is just one of the considerations in choosing a sports sedan. The fastest car is not necessarily the best all-around choice. Drive them all and judge for yourself.
AFAIK, both the BMW Store AND Swope give their buyers a preference on loaners. One advantage Swope has over the BMW Store is that the Swope service department also offers a CCA discount. I've let them wrench on my ti and 528i with absolutely no complaints, and the people that I've referred to Swope for service have been very happy as well.
Thanks for the heads-up. I've got 12,000 on the clock and 7,000 remaining until the first oil service, so it will probably happen sometime in the mid to late summer...
I think if you make a service appointment at least a week in advance, you won't have any trouble getting a dealer to commit to a loaner car..
I know The BMW Store offers CCA discounts in the parts department, but I'm not sure about service (though that won't likely apply, since your car is new).
If div2 has a service advisor he can hook you up with, then I'd go with Swope.. I've never had any problems with The BMW Store service department, but I haven't made any close contacts, either.. I've generally received excellent service, though that view may be colored by all of my cars being under warranty..
Uh, whatever, Beevis. I drove the competition. Not a single 2006 sport sedan can compare to the e46 or e90. Not the IS, G35, TL, C, A4, Legacy, Mazdaspeed, CTS. As for the STi and Evo...those are RALLY cars that can play hardball with porsches!
Maybe when the rest of the world figures out how to build a competent, fast, secure, planted, RWD sport sedan BMW will have to worry. They had 7 years to one-up the e46 and nobody could do it. The e90 continues to the evolution.
Sad really. How can all those engineers continue to come up short with so much time to build a better mousetrap?
Thanks. I tried to make my e-mail public so that div2 could e-mail me the name of his service adviser, but I think the server choked when I tried to update my profile.
Dealership service departments will generally give you the same kind of attitude you show them.
I dealt with a service department in California. I had problems with my cluster controller unit on a SATURDAY, called the dealer on a Sunday, and they let me bring the car down, they kept it secured IN the garage, and fixed it the next morning (Monday). I was concerned about safety, and terrified of driving home at night for fear of a bigger failure down the road (literally). I was professional, polite, and knew they would treat me well.
I went down Monday to pick it up. Guy in line ahead of me was whining about how his POS car kept breaking down and blamed the mechanics for his problems. Their attitude towards him was much different from the attitude they gave me, which was none.
Go in with a negative attitude, you get a negative attitude.
It is very interesting to note, that the entire IS brochure is devoted to Germany, Nurburgring, ect..
However once behind the wheel its very obvious whos still chasing who. I do think its possible that they could have built the IS with a suspension that does not feel like a Buick, But alas in the end they are still building for the Lexus masses , not us BMW enthusiast.
I would hope, that when comparing performance, people would stick to numbers. 0-60 time is a number, so is lateral g and breaking distance. We may debate which of these numbers are the more important but at least, with regard to Performance, we should be talking about numbers.. NOT feel good BMW marketing slogans and emotional hype. BMW engineers know this..and that's why they KNOW they're slipping relative to the competition, on the numbers.
It might be useful to agree on the definition of a sedan. To me, it's simple..if it seats 4/5 people and has 4 wheels, it isn't an SUV or VAN/Mini-VAN or TRUCK..then it's probably a sedan. Merriam says: "2 a : a 2- or 4-door automobile seating 4 or more persons and usually having a permanent top". That makes all the fore mentioned cars above sedans...and therefore valid for comparison to the all-mighty BMW. Notice, that I'm a proud, albeit irritated, owner of a 06 BMW 330i with performance and premium package. That doesn't stop me from being objective.
I won't be the first to say from experience..that the BMW handling is beautiful. The numbers that can attempt to quantify this quality is lateral g and braking amust others. I believe BMW still enjoys a comfortable margin on these numbers over it's competitors, other than PRICE OF COURSE. That said, there is little else, that BMW can boast, regarding PERFORMANCE, over the STI or Evolution. LIke it or NOT..these ARE competitors from a performance point of view. I'm sure BMW watches with anguish over the numbers of these cars that are now flooding streets...KNOWING..a significant portion of these people would have bought a BMW if only..BMW performance numbers were better.
I would hope, that when comparing performance, people would stick to numbers.
I would hope when deciding which car to buy that people pick the one they enjoy, not the one that R&T got to do a 0-60 run in 4.2. If performance were the only metric for making a car-buying decisions then the Evo and Sti would be the most logical choice going - especially given bang for the buck.
BMW engineers know this..and that's why they KNOW they're slipping relative to the competition, on the numbers.
Using your all-powerful numbers take a gander at the e90's handling, lateral gs and slalom vis-a-vis it's competitions: entry level luxury sendans. Only the G35 realistically comes close.
obliterates a comparably equippedThat said, there is little else, that BMW can boast, regarding PERFORMANCE,
V. it's real competition, the handling makes the car.
Against your boyracer cars: over the STI or Evolution.
Well that's just an outright silly comparison. to compare fast AWD economy cars with zero luxury features to sport sedan is outrageously goofy. Why not say the 330i can't hold a candle in a straightline to the Neon RT? It's true. The RT will clobber a 330i in straightlines. Golly, the Neon's a better car then? Mustang GT easily scarfs a 330i in straightlines too.
LIke it or NOT..these ARE competitors from a performance point of view.
Uh, no they aren't. People who tend toward luxuxry and performance never seriously consider tinker toy cars with big turbos and zero engineering finesse.
I'm sure BMW watches with anguish over the numbers of these cars that are now flooding streets...KNOWING..a significant portion of these people would have bought a BMW if only..BMW performance numbers were better.
Please, maybe you like Orange County cars with the big wings and the exhaust but the target market for BMW is not and has never been the crowd who thinks the Fast and the Furious is a how-to for car ownership.
BMW's sales keep going up. Infiniti came out...the 3 continued to sell. Lexus' faster IS...already lagging in sales. Audi's a non-entity. MB would kill for BMW's small sedan sales. There's no proof of your statement - the rise of the import tuner economy car hasn't impacted BMW. It wouldn't. They're not in the same marketspace. This is like saying the succes of Adam Sandler's moron comedies is hurting Ang Lee's period films at the box office. A and B are unrelated. Different markets.
The STI appeals to a certain type of person - a person who values all-out performance over subdued freeway sound, great gas mileage on long freeway drives, a comfortable freeway cruising attitude, automatic features, RWD, wider/lower stances, free maintenance.
I've driven the STI. It's super fun. I would never own one. I don't like thrashy engines. I want a quiet ride on the freeway. I want 30+ mpg on drives to Vegas at 100 mph. I want power memory seats so when my girlfriend takes me car I don't have to spend 10 minutes adjusting everything back to normal. I want comfort access. I want RWD - AWD bores me. In the end it's all about my wants...numbers (price and performance) be damned.
"That said, there is little else, that BMW can boast, regarding PERFORMANCE, over the STI or Evolution"
Seems to me there is some car in the BMW lineup, oh yeah, the M5 that has a V10. The V8 M3 will be coming out and I'm sure it will be a winner as well. The 335i in whatever flavor will be coming out as well.
That said, if the benchmark is the EVO, at 0 to 60 in about 4.x seconds, exactly what vehicle in this segment does compete directly with the EVO? The EVO dusts 'em all and can wipe the smile off most Porsche owners.
I would hope, that when comparing performance, people would stick to numbers. 0-60 time is a number, so is lateral g and breaking distance.
In that case, why not just buy a late '90s SVT Cobra and pour about $10k into the engine, suspension and brakes? The result would put your hallowed EVO and STi on the trailer, so that would make it the best car-right? And one more thing; based on what I've seen of EVOs at HPDEs, "breaking distance" is not a typo...
Switched out the winter package, only then realized how smooth, quite and well handling the car is. Put about 7K on the winter wheels, very rough. With the originals (base model) it's running like silk - beautiful.
Changed oil at 5K at local dealership, for about $110. Will go in for the $15K free maintenance in a few months.
The notchiness of the stick seems to have gone away (or I got used to it).
Found out that I could dial my phone with voice recognition just last week. I didn't even know I had the option. Sweet.
No problems, not even minor to report, knock on wood! Sweet engine noise, love to rev once in a while. Used to get 25-26 mpg in 50-50 mixed driving. Should improve with original wheels and warmer weather.
"I want a quiet ride on the freeway. I want 30+ mpg on drives to Vegas at 100 mph. I want power memory seats so when my girlfriend takes me car I don't have to spend 10 minutes adjusting everything back to normal. I want comfort access. I want RWD - AWD bores me. In the end it's all about my wants...numbers (price and performance) be damned."
May I suggest to you a Volvo. I hope BMW Never sees things your way. If BMW ceases to be about Performance minded engineering, it will cease to exist because Mercedes Benz already has the Luxuary minded engineering space.
Look, bottom line, in 2 years.. I'll be looking for another car and so will millions of others..BMW better be up to par on the NUMBERS (lateral gs, hp, 0-60, torque, braking distance..) while maintaining a moderate level of coolness and luxary. The day BMW turns it's eyes off of the NUMBERS will be the end of BMW and I don't think this will happen. They're just slipping at the moment.
I never said that performance is everything, but that's like saying money isn't everything. Obviously it's not, but it's definately up there.
LIke it or NOT..these ARE competitors from a performance point of view. I'm sure BMW watches with anguish over the numbers of these cars that are now flooding streets...KNOWING..a significant portion of these people would have bought a BMW if only..BMW performance numbers were better.
Since your 330i is an 06 you must have compared it to these other autos and still decided to choose the 330i.
I don’t think anybody here will have an automatic re-order of the 3 series when time comes to purchase another automobile everybody will look at the competition and decide at that point what the best is and at this point YOU choose the 3 series; in 2 years the 335 may win you over or not.
BTW I would never buy a Subie the way they look now even if their performance was double what it is today can’t look at that thing like some sort of forest dwelling rodent yuk.
May I suggest to you a Volvo. I hope BMW Never sees things your way.
ROFL. Yeah, everybody here knows I'm a sedate driver. What I described is my 03 330i performance package! A car that is in many ways superior to my 06 e90 330i sport package.
If BMW ceases to be about Performance minded engineering, it will cease to exist because Mercedes Benz already has the Luxuary minded engineering space.
I'm convinced at this point that you're trolling.
Look, bottom line, in 2 years.. I'll be looking for another car and so will millions of others..BMW better be up to par on the NUMBERS
Save for 0-60, it bests all the competition right now. One engine tweak and it's got everybody in this segment.
(lateral gs, hp, 0-60, torque, braking distance..) while maintaining a moderate level of coolness and luxary.
From which dealer did you purchase your 330i? Is it an automatic? Off-the-lot or order?
The day BMW turns it's eyes off of the NUMBERS will be the end of BMW and I don't think this will happen. They're just slipping at the moment.
Sales say otherwise. Universal praise for the e90's chassis and driving feel refute your statements too. Drive an IS350, G35 and C class and then get into a 330i. If you can't tell the marked difference among those cars (the STI and EVO are economy cars), you're not driving the cars hard enough or you simply can't drive.
I never said that performance is everything, but that's like saying money isn't everything. Obviously it's not, but it's definately up there.
No, you keep pretending speed is everything. Funny thing happened on the way to the IS350 being crowned the top sport sedan even with its 300 HP engine - the car can't carry its speed through corners. This is where the 330i is alive. Track your car and you might see its true potential. My guess is you're just getting on the 8 or 805 and punching it. If performance to you = speed you did buy the wrong brand. There's so much more to BMW. Either you know how to get it out of the car or you'd be happier in something ungaingly (G35), numb (IS350) or Orange County (STI).
One thing to keep in mind is how German companies/people view their ideal car, since we are talking about German cars, after all. Yes, US is one of the biggest market for many of the car makers, but half of the M cars are still sold in Europe and it is a global brand. From My short experience living in Germany (3 yrs.), I found Germans to be absolutely fanatical about cars in general, taking care of it, enthusiasm, performance, etc. The "number" you keep referring to is only one part of the equation for most Europeans (Italians take to the road as if they were on sprint races, though). There are some that do care about the "numbers" the way you seem to, but most are more interested in handling, NVH (especially on unlimited sections of Autobahn) and refinement AND sportiness.
I have run into exactly 1 driver (with AMG c30 wagon, no less, which has a diesel engine!) that wanted to race off the light in 3 years over there. However, many of them do love cruising at 100+ and being able to brake and handle without compromise. In its day, my 95 Integra GSR was one of the hot-hatches, but driving on the autobahn at 100+ and rev at 5000+ will drive you nuts! (I rarely drove it that way as I could not even talk on the phone) Even 1.9 TDi VW van or 1.5L Opel Astra was quieter and more stable at same speeds and still accelerate at highway speeds just as well. That pretty much seemed how cars were designed and engineered over there.
ROFL. Yeah, everybody here knows I'm a sedate driver. What I described is my 03 330i performance package! A car that is in many ways superior to my 06 e90 330i sport package.
Perhaps, this is what the original poster (jmaroun) is talking about: BMW is getting softer.
To me, the e90 330i w/sport is about a COMPROMISE between luxuries and sport. And I like it that way. However, I don't think it will do well (compared to the competitors) if I was to focus on just one of those attributes.
Where have I ever said that speed is everything? Infact, not once have I mentioned the word speed in all of my posts. Top speed is BS to me. This the United States..we have no autoban unfortunately. I did mention 0-60 time as it is indeed an important performance metric. 60mph is NOT very fast..what is important his how fast a car can propell itself to that speed. I'm perfectly aware that this number referrs to straight line acceleration from rest on a flat road. For 0-60 time, BMW sufferes. This is a fact. I'm not Mechanical Engineer, but I'd bet the main reason for BMW's poor 0-60 times, relatively speaking, is most likely due to it's relatively weak lo-end torque, but that would be a guess and I welcome anyone elses more qualified explanation. I believe that the older BMW's used to have a more masculine low-end torque character.
Of course, 0-60 isn't everything in a car. THAT is why other performance numbers should be considered..such as lateral g force, braking distance, ... I never, not once, mentioned which of the numerous performance metrics I thought were more important than otheres, but merely pointed out that it's important to quote NUMBERS..NOT feel good BMW slogans or emotional hype.
Lateral g force and braking distance numbers are probably the only numbers BMW can claim to have the higher standard on, other than their HIGH PRICES of course.
If traffic is moving slowly, I can upshift to the next higher gear before I have reached 2,000 rpm in the lower one, without lugging the engine, in a 325i.
Whose 0-60 numbers are you using for comparison purposes?
I'm trying to think... When in 3-Series history was it the quickest car from zero to sixty in its class? Unless you bring the M3 into the picture, then I'm thinking never. If I'm wrong, then I'll bet it was for only a few months until some competitor or other managed to squeeze a little extra juice out of their car.
By the way, when I say "competitor" I don't mean boy racer buzz bombs like the STi and the Evos of the World.
The fact is that while BMWs have always had better than average acceleration (at least over here in the U.S.A.*), the truth of the matter is that they've never been known for their class leading ability to scoot.
Objective I am, and in my not so humble opinion, BMW doesn't need to have class leading acceleration to remain competitive. They do however need to be in the thick of things acceleration wise AND maintain their class leading overall balance.
Best Regards, Shipo
* Funny story: Back when I was working for MB-USA in Stuttgart, I had a rental BMW 318i (as a consultant I couldn't drive a company car**). Not only did I get flat dusted by a Chrysler Caravan on the AutoBahn early one morning (by an easy 30 mph), I was also summarily dismissed on several occasions by much more pedestrian seeming vehicles when accelerating away from traffic lights. :-/
** I did however manage to snag some left seat time in a (then) new W210 E420 with a 5-Speed Manual transmission. Damn, clunky stick and all, they should have brought that car over here.
I'm trying to think... When in 3-Series history was it the quickest car from zero to sixty in its class?
BMWs have never been about the best "numbers". Rather, it's the fact that BMW combines great performance and comfort in one package. The truth is, BMWs weren't really known for being all that quick until the E36 M3 came along in 1994. From 1992-1995 I ran a chipped and desmogged E24 M6, which made around 310 hp at the crank. I can't tell you how many Corvette, Mustang GT, Trans Am, and Z28 owners thought my 6er was just another slow BMW-until I blew their doors off. Ditto for the twin turbo Nissan Z-cars and Toyota Supras. In fact, the only Stoplight Grand Prix invitation I declined was from the driver of a 1994 911 Turbo; I knew I couldn't vanquish that panzer..
mentioned the word speed in all of my posts. Top speed is %$ to me. This the United States..we have no autoban unfortunately.
You know very well when I'm mocking your speed comments I'm talking about this silly obsession with 0-60 and 1/4 miles and the like. And you know, I live in San Diego...I've never found it very hard to locate long open stretches where you can bring a car into the 120s, 130s, etc - like I-15 to Vegas or I-5 to Sac/SF.
I did mention 0-60 time as it is indeed an important performance metric.
I think it's important to be sub 7 seconds, no doubt. But after that, well, you're really not going to see a big difference between 6 and 5.4 seconds. Especially as one missed shift in a manual drags it past 6 anyway.
For 0-60 time, BMW sufferes. This is a fact.
How does it suffer? 0-60 in a 330 and even 325i is ~6 seconds. That's right in line with everyone but Lexus' IS350.
I believe that the older BMW's used to have a more masculine low-end torque character.
Uh, no. My 330i Perf Pack has different gearing, headers, ecu, etc from a 330i SP and it'll romp to 60 a good 3 tenths faster than an e46 330i or even e90 330i.
Of course, 0-60 isn't everything in a car. THAT is why other performance numbers should be considered..such as lateral g force, braking distance,
And BMW matches and most often beats all the competition in those areas.
Lateral g force and braking distance numbers are probably the only numbers BMW can claim to have the higher standard on, other than their HIGH PRICES of course.
High prices? My 06 330i e90 (leather, sport, comfort access, pdc) was $35,700 (I pick it up April 6 in Munich). A comparable IS350 ~39-40k - plus a good 2k in maintenance over 3 years and it's less fun to drive. G35 would be about 33k but maintenance and a G35 isn't as refined, it's large and has twitchy handling tendencies.
Keep it objective.
It's not an objective decision. There's nothing objective about car buying...especially in the luxury market. The cars are about feel and desire...not need. Comparing a Civic to a Mazda3 even comes down to subjective things.
Numbers mean ZIP when it comes to passion and fun. The past few days I've been doing some work at a company in East County. A few times a day I was whipping down remote, curvy, hilly roads with posted corners that read 35. I far exceeded that number (by at least double in most cases). I can't quantify how much driving out there in my e46 is worth to me. Pretty much priceless. That's why I opted for the car. The sticker, the 0-60, the badge...it meant nothing. The way that car feels when pressed on a track or even just on simple on-ramps: nothing under 50k can compare to it, imho.
I'll let you know how my e90 subjectively feels on the autobahn next week. I'm pretty sure it won't be a disappointment.
Looks like this model in coupe form is going to happen. Would be nice to get this engine in the new hardtop convertible as well. Never satisfied I guess. The ALMOST Ultimate Driving Machine!
"I initially heard that it would be a 3.0L with twin turbos (sequential), but now on edmunds it states it will be a 3.5L TT with 306hp. "
All due respect to Edmunds, BMW has announced (Geneva) the twin turbo 3.0L 6 - though they have not publicly announced what cars it will be in. They have not announced a 3.5L 6.
Comments
This is confusing.
DL
The SA built 330I had it brakes, rotors and tires replaced and now has 55K miles with no problems.
I can only hope the 2006 Fares as well.
Thats my experience.
Secondly my dealer has one wall of glass in the customer service waiting lounge. You can drink free coffee latte, watch Plasma TV, read a book or play with your blackberry while watching your car being serviced.
I checked with a Local Garage owned by former BMW Technicians and they wouldn't change Pads only. They informed me the BMW pads and Rotors are designed to fully wear at approxamatly the same time and if they replaced pads only the rotors would ware below tolerance while the second set of pads were still healthy. Thats what two different BMW dealers also told me.
I spent $800.00 for new pads, rotors and ware sensors, Oil and filter change, and wheel balance. I did have them give me the old parts, they were worn pretty bad. I wont take old parts again, they were so heavy the town trash collectors wouldn't take them, They felt the rotors would damage the compactor on the truck. They left them in my driveway. I had to transport them to the local landfill myself.
Thats my story.
That having been said, when I do brakes on BMWs, I too buy new rotors. Why? To me at least I'd rather spend the ~$120 or so for a set of four new rotors than run around to a machine shop to get my rotors turned (that would mean jack the car up at all four corners, pull the old rotors, drive to the machine shop, wait around, drive home, and then finish the job). Buy a new set, slap them all on, and properly dispose of the remains, that's how I do it.
I'm thinking that the total time it takes to do the shopping for the parts (internet), the actual work and the trip to the recycling center isn't more than three to four hours on the outside (more like two and a half to three). Given that I can do a complete four wheel brake job (pads, rotors and sensors [if needed]) for about $250, I can easily justify getting my hands dirty. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
I'll be looking for a new car after my lease is over in about two years. I have my eye out for a new M3. This time, I'm gonna look around and not just go with the "getta BMW" instinct. You guys had better get your act together by then.
PS..Get your service and sales departments to be more POLITE and less jerky while you're at it. Maybe then, If I do decide to get another BMW, I might actually purchase the car from a dealer rather an on-line site like carsdirect or something.
Joseph
in San Diego
Everyone who's into these things has their own idea of what a BMW is. To me, it's a somewhat austere car with a distinctly different design philosophy that you can feel as soon as you get behind the wheel. It's a little quirky. It has a smooth, turbine like straight six (or perhaps a four) coupled with a transmission that feels like an extension of the driver. It's fundamentally not a luxury car (Jaguar, Lexus and Cadillac make very good ones), although it offers lots of expensive stuff to people who think they are buying one. My personal favorite: early '70s European spec BMW 3.0 CSi -- one of the most beautiful cars ever built.
The biggest danger for BMW is not in being no. 3 or 4 in the 0-60 league; it's in losing their direction as a manufacturer of drivers' cars and becoming entranced by expensive technology of doubtful benefit and unproven reliability. They may win a greater share of the market, but end up no longer building BMWs.
The aforementioned cars are fast, but if one likes a bit of luxury and sophistication can you honestly say the STI and EVO provide that? They are no pretense cars without a modicum of luxury features. That is *NOT* the competition. I've never heard anybody seriously cross-shopping an 3L E90 with an EVO. Or an EVO with an M3. Maybe one insane person thinks the cars are equivalent in form and function.
You can't lump your local dealership in with all the rest. They all act independently..... That one might be a bunch of jerks, but you'll find many BMW owners here that are absolutely satisified with their local service departments.
Speaking as someone who actually did look around before buying a 3-series, I found it to be the best compromise of the cars I drove, including the TSX, G35, and Legacy GT.
I am very fond of Subaru, and I probably would have bought a Legacy GT Limited instead if it offered stability control. It's very different from the 3-series, but I found it to be quite fun to drive, and I would have absolutely no fundamental worries about owning it after the warranty expired, which is something I can't say about any BMW.
That said, I am still very happy with the 3-series. German cars have a certain feel to them that other manufacturers have been unable to replicate. I'm not saying that true driving enjoyment can only come from a German car--quite the contrary--who wouldn't love a Ford GT or a Nissan Skyline? But, BMW offers a great overall package of performance, safety, and comfort.
Also, I have experienced appalling sales and service departments at plenty of car dealerships--this problem is not confined to BMW. Long story short, franchise laws here in the US make it nigh impossible for a manufacturer to do anything about bad dealerships. Some, like VW, just don't care. BMW and others make some effort, but ultimately their hands are tied.
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I have the snow tires switched at Motorsports of Lexington, an independent Euro (mostly BMW) mechanic.
If I'm here in Lexington when the first service is called for, I will probably go to Louisville or Cincinnati to have it and any other warranty concerns taken care of.
Acceleration of the 330i is very good, though not class leading. It does 0 to 60 in about 6 seconds flat. Would I like it to be even faster? Of course I would. But acceleration is just one of the considerations in choosing a sports sedan. The fastest car is not necessarily the best all-around choice. Drive them all and judge for yourself.
I am one of those satisfied owners! Generalizations do not benefit anybody...
I know The BMW Store offers CCA discounts in the parts department, but I'm not sure about service (though that won't likely apply, since your car is new).
If div2 has a service advisor he can hook you up with, then I'd go with Swope.. I've never had any problems with The BMW Store service department, but I haven't made any close contacts, either.. I've generally received excellent service, though that view may be colored by all of my cars being under warranty..
regards,
kyfdx
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Maybe when the rest of the world figures out how to build a competent, fast, secure, planted, RWD sport sedan BMW will have to worry. They had 7 years to one-up the e46 and nobody could do it. The e90 continues to the evolution.
Sad really. How can all those engineers continue to come up short with so much time to build a better mousetrap?
I'm getting my summer shoes put on tomorrow.
I dealt with a service department in California. I had problems with my cluster controller unit on a SATURDAY, called the dealer on a Sunday, and they let me bring the car down, they kept it secured IN the garage, and fixed it the next morning (Monday). I was concerned about safety, and terrified of driving home at night for fear of a bigger failure down the road (literally). I was professional, polite, and knew they would treat me well.
I went down Monday to pick it up. Guy in line ahead of me was whining about how his POS car kept breaking down and blamed the mechanics for his problems. Their attitude towards him was much different from the attitude they gave me, which was none.
Go in with a negative attitude, you get a negative attitude.
-Paul
However once behind the wheel its very obvious whos still chasing who. I do think its possible that they could have built the IS with a suspension that does not feel like a Buick, But alas in the end they are still building for the Lexus masses , not us BMW enthusiast.
DL
would stick to numbers. 0-60 time is a number, so is lateral g and breaking distance. We may
debate which of these numbers are the more important but at least, with regard to Performance, we should be talking about numbers.. NOT feel good BMW marketing slogans and emotional hype. BMW engineers know this..and that's why they KNOW they're slipping relative to the competition, on the numbers.
It might be useful to agree on the definition of a sedan. To me, it's simple..if it seats 4/5 people and has 4 wheels, it isn't an SUV or VAN/Mini-VAN or TRUCK..then it's probably a sedan. Merriam says: "2 a : a 2- or 4-door automobile seating 4 or more persons and usually having a permanent top". That makes all the fore mentioned cars above sedans...and therefore valid for comparison to the all-mighty BMW. Notice, that I'm a proud, albeit irritated, owner of a 06 BMW 330i with performance and premium package. That doesn't stop me from being objective.
I won't be the first to say from experience..that the BMW handling is beautiful. The numbers that can attempt to quantify this quality is lateral g and braking amust others. I believe BMW still enjoys a comfortable margin on these numbers over it's competitors, other than PRICE OF COURSE. That said, there is little else, that BMW can boast, regarding PERFORMANCE, over the STI or Evolution. LIke it or NOT..these ARE competitors from a performance point of view. I'm sure BMW watches with anguish over the numbers of these cars that are now flooding streets...KNOWING..a significant portion of these people would have bought a BMW if only..BMW performance numbers were better.
I appreciate your respectful comments.
Joseph
San Diego
would stick to numbers.
I would hope when deciding which car to buy that people pick the one they enjoy, not the one that R&T got to do a 0-60 run in 4.2. If performance were the only metric for making a car-buying decisions then the Evo and Sti would be the most logical choice going - especially given bang for the buck.
BMW engineers know this..and that's why they KNOW they're slipping relative to the competition, on the numbers.
Using your all-powerful numbers take a gander at the e90's handling, lateral gs and slalom vis-a-vis it's competitions: entry level luxury sendans. Only the G35 realistically comes close.
obliterates a comparably equippedThat said, there is little else, that BMW can boast, regarding PERFORMANCE,
V. it's real competition, the handling makes the car.
Against your boyracer cars: over the STI or Evolution.
Well that's just an outright silly comparison. to compare fast AWD economy cars with zero luxury features to sport sedan is outrageously goofy. Why not say the 330i can't hold a candle in a straightline to the Neon RT? It's true. The RT will clobber a 330i in straightlines. Golly, the Neon's a better car then? Mustang GT easily scarfs a 330i in straightlines too.
LIke it or NOT..these ARE competitors from a performance point of view.
Uh, no they aren't. People who tend toward luxuxry and performance never seriously consider tinker toy cars with big turbos and zero engineering finesse.
I'm sure BMW watches with anguish over the numbers of these cars that are now flooding streets...KNOWING..a significant portion of these people would have bought a BMW if only..BMW performance numbers were better.
Please, maybe you like Orange County cars with the big wings and the exhaust but the target market for BMW is not and has never been the crowd who thinks the Fast and the Furious is a how-to for car ownership.
BMW's sales keep going up. Infiniti came out...the 3 continued to sell. Lexus' faster IS...already lagging in sales. Audi's a non-entity. MB would kill for BMW's small sedan sales. There's no proof of your statement - the rise of the import tuner economy car hasn't impacted BMW. It wouldn't. They're not in the same marketspace. This is like saying the succes of Adam Sandler's moron comedies is hurting Ang Lee's period films at the box office. A and B are unrelated. Different markets.
The STI appeals to a certain type of person - a person who values all-out performance over subdued freeway sound, great gas mileage on long freeway drives, a comfortable freeway cruising attitude, automatic features, RWD, wider/lower stances, free maintenance.
I've driven the STI. It's super fun. I would never own one. I don't like thrashy engines. I want a quiet ride on the freeway. I want 30+ mpg on drives to Vegas at 100 mph. I want power memory seats so when my girlfriend takes me car I don't have to spend 10 minutes adjusting everything back to normal. I want comfort access. I want RWD - AWD bores me. In the end it's all about my wants...numbers (price and performance) be damned.
Seems to me there is some car in the BMW lineup, oh yeah, the M5 that has a V10. The V8 M3 will be coming out and I'm sure it will be a winner as well. The 335i in whatever flavor will be coming out as well.
That said, if the benchmark is the EVO, at 0 to 60 in about 4.x seconds, exactly what vehicle in this segment does compete directly with the EVO? The EVO dusts 'em all and can wipe the smile off most Porsche owners.
would stick to numbers. 0-60 time is a number, so is lateral g and breaking distance.
In that case, why not just buy a late '90s SVT Cobra and pour about $10k into the engine, suspension and brakes? The result would put your hallowed EVO and STi on the trailer, so that would make it the best car-right? And one more thing; based on what I've seen of EVOs at HPDEs, "breaking distance" is not a typo...
Changed oil at 5K at local dealership, for about $110. Will go in for the $15K free maintenance in a few months.
The notchiness of the stick seems to have gone away (or I got used to it).
Found out that I could dial my phone with voice recognition just last week. I didn't even know I had the option. Sweet.
No problems, not even minor to report, knock on wood! Sweet engine noise, love to rev once in a while. Used to get 25-26 mpg in 50-50 mixed driving. Should improve with original wheels and warmer weather.
May I suggest to you a Volvo. I hope BMW Never sees things your way. If BMW ceases to be about Performance minded engineering, it will cease to exist because Mercedes Benz already has the Luxuary minded engineering space.
Look, bottom line, in 2 years.. I'll be looking for another car and so will millions of others..BMW better be up to par on the NUMBERS (lateral gs, hp, 0-60, torque, braking distance..) while maintaining a moderate level of coolness and luxary. The day BMW turns it's eyes off of the NUMBERS will be the end of BMW and I don't think this will happen. They're just slipping at the moment.
I never said that performance is everything, but that's like saying money isn't everything. Obviously it's not, but it's definately up there.
Joseph
San Diego
Since your 330i is an 06 you must have compared it to these other autos and still decided to choose the 330i.
I don’t think anybody here will have an automatic re-order of the 3 series when time comes to purchase another automobile everybody will look at the competition and decide at that point what the best is and at this point YOU choose the 3 series; in 2 years the 335 may win you over or not.
BTW I would never buy a Subie the way they look now even if their performance was double what it is today can’t look at that thing like some sort of forest dwelling rodent yuk.
ROFL. Yeah, everybody here knows I'm a sedate driver. What I described is my 03 330i performance package! A car that is in many ways superior to my 06 e90 330i sport package.
If BMW ceases to be about Performance minded engineering, it will cease to exist because Mercedes Benz already has the Luxuary minded engineering space.
I'm convinced at this point that you're trolling.
Look, bottom line, in 2 years.. I'll be looking for another car and so will millions of others..BMW better be up to par on the NUMBERS
Save for 0-60, it bests all the competition right now. One engine tweak and it's got everybody in this segment.
(lateral gs, hp, 0-60, torque, braking distance..) while maintaining a moderate level of coolness and luxary.
From which dealer did you purchase your 330i? Is it an automatic? Off-the-lot or order?
The day BMW turns it's eyes off of the NUMBERS will be the end of BMW and I don't think this will happen. They're just slipping at the moment.
Sales say otherwise. Universal praise for the e90's chassis and driving feel refute your statements too. Drive an IS350, G35 and C class and then get into a 330i. If you can't tell the marked difference among those cars (the STI and EVO are economy cars), you're not driving the cars hard enough or you simply can't drive.
I never said that performance is everything, but that's like saying money isn't everything. Obviously it's not, but it's definately up there.
No, you keep pretending speed is everything. Funny thing happened on the way to the IS350 being crowned the top sport sedan even with its 300 HP engine - the car can't carry its speed through corners. This is where the 330i is alive. Track your car and you might see its true potential. My guess is you're just getting on the 8 or 805 and punching it. If performance to you = speed you did buy the wrong brand. There's so much more to BMW. Either you know how to get it out of the car or you'd be happier in something ungaingly (G35), numb (IS350) or Orange County (STI).
Methinks he'd be happiest in a big-block Chevette; it's got the numbers...
I have run into exactly 1 driver (with AMG c30 wagon, no less, which has a diesel engine!) that wanted to race off the light in 3 years over there. However, many of them do love cruising at 100+ and being able to brake and handle without compromise. In its day, my 95 Integra GSR was one of the hot-hatches, but driving on the autobahn at 100+ and rev at 5000+ will drive you nuts! (I rarely drove it that way as I could not even talk on the phone) Even 1.9 TDi VW van or 1.5L Opel Astra was quieter and more stable at same speeds and still accelerate at highway speeds just as well. That pretty much seemed how cars were designed and engineered over there.
Perhaps, this is what the original poster (jmaroun) is talking about: BMW is getting softer.
To me, the e90 330i w/sport is about a COMPROMISE between luxuries and sport. And I like it that way. However, I don't think it will do well (compared to the competitors) if I was to focus on just one of those attributes.
not once have I mentioned the word speed in all of my posts. Top speed is BS to me. This the United States..we have no autoban unfortunately. I did mention 0-60 time as it is indeed an important performance metric. 60mph is NOT very fast..what is important his how fast a car can propell itself to that speed. I'm perfectly aware that this number referrs to straight line acceleration from rest on a flat road. For 0-60 time, BMW sufferes. This is a fact. I'm not Mechanical Engineer, but I'd bet the main reason for BMW's poor 0-60 times, relatively speaking, is most likely due to it's relatively weak lo-end torque, but that would be a guess and I welcome anyone elses more qualified explanation. I believe that the older BMW's used to have a more masculine low-end torque character.
Of course, 0-60 isn't everything in a car. THAT is why other performance numbers should be considered..such as lateral g force, braking distance, ... I never, not once, mentioned which of the numerous performance metrics I thought were more important than otheres, but merely pointed out that it's important to quote NUMBERS..NOT feel good BMW slogans or emotional hype.
Lateral g force and braking distance numbers are probably the only numbers BMW can claim to have the higher standard on, other than their HIGH PRICES of course.
Keep it objective.
Joseph
San Diego
Whose 0-60 numbers are you using for comparison purposes?
By the way, when I say "competitor" I don't mean boy racer buzz bombs like the STi and the Evos of the World.
The fact is that while BMWs have always had better than average acceleration (at least over here in the U.S.A.*), the truth of the matter is that they've never been known for their class leading ability to scoot.
Objective I am, and in my not so humble opinion, BMW doesn't need to have class leading acceleration to remain competitive. They do however need to be in the thick of things acceleration wise AND maintain their class leading overall balance.
Best Regards,
Shipo
* Funny story: Back when I was working for MB-USA in Stuttgart, I had a rental BMW 318i (as a consultant I couldn't drive a company car**). Not only did I get flat dusted by a Chrysler Caravan on the AutoBahn early one morning (by an easy 30 mph), I was also summarily dismissed on several occasions by much more pedestrian seeming vehicles when accelerating away from traffic lights. :-/
** I did however manage to snag some left seat time in a (then) new W210 E420 with a 5-Speed Manual transmission. Damn, clunky stick and all, they should have brought that car over here.
Fat chance of that ever happening.
BMWs have never been about the best "numbers". Rather, it's the fact that BMW combines great performance and comfort in one package. The truth is, BMWs weren't really known for being all that quick until the E36 M3 came along in 1994. From 1992-1995 I ran a chipped and desmogged E24 M6, which made around 310 hp at the crank. I can't tell you how many Corvette, Mustang GT, Trans Am, and Z28 owners thought my 6er was just another slow BMW-until I blew their doors off. Ditto for the twin turbo Nissan Z-cars and Toyota Supras. In fact, the only Stoplight Grand Prix invitation I declined was from the driver of a 1994 911 Turbo; I knew I couldn't vanquish that panzer..
You know very well when I'm mocking your speed comments I'm talking about this silly obsession with 0-60 and 1/4 miles and the like. And you know, I live in San Diego...I've never found it very hard to locate long open stretches where you can bring a car into the 120s, 130s, etc - like I-15 to Vegas or I-5 to Sac/SF.
I did mention 0-60 time as it is indeed an important performance metric.
I think it's important to be sub 7 seconds, no doubt. But after that, well, you're really not going to see a big difference between 6 and 5.4 seconds. Especially as one missed shift in a manual drags it past 6 anyway.
For 0-60 time, BMW sufferes. This is a fact.
How does it suffer? 0-60 in a 330 and even 325i is ~6 seconds. That's right in line with everyone but Lexus' IS350.
I believe that the older BMW's used to have a more masculine low-end torque character.
Uh, no. My 330i Perf Pack has different gearing, headers, ecu, etc from a 330i SP and it'll romp to 60 a good 3 tenths faster than an e46 330i or even e90 330i.
Of course, 0-60 isn't everything in a car. THAT is why other performance numbers should be considered..such as lateral g force, braking distance,
And BMW matches and most often beats all the competition in those areas.
Lateral g force and braking distance numbers are probably the only numbers BMW can claim to have the higher standard on, other than their HIGH PRICES of course.
High prices? My 06 330i e90 (leather, sport, comfort access, pdc) was $35,700 (I pick it up April 6 in Munich). A comparable IS350 ~39-40k - plus a good 2k in maintenance over 3 years and it's less fun to drive. G35 would be about 33k but maintenance and a G35 isn't as refined, it's large and has twitchy handling tendencies.
Keep it objective.
It's not an objective decision. There's nothing objective about car buying...especially in the luxury market. The cars are about feel and desire...not need. Comparing a Civic to a Mazda3 even comes down to subjective things.
Numbers mean ZIP when it comes to passion and fun. The past few days I've been doing some work at a company in East County. A few times a day I was whipping down remote, curvy, hilly roads with posted corners that read 35. I far exceeded that number (by at least double in most cases). I can't quantify how much driving out there in my e46 is worth to me. Pretty much priceless. That's why I opted for the car. The sticker, the 0-60, the badge...it meant nothing. The way that car feels when pressed on a track or even just on simple on-ramps: nothing under 50k can compare to it, imho.
I'll let you know how my e90 subjectively feels on the autobahn next week. I'm pretty sure it won't be a disappointment.
I initially heard that it would be a 3.0L with twin turbos (sequential), but now on edmunds it states it will be a 3.5L TT with 306hp.
Keeping the same hp/l output, the 3.0L should be making 300hp at 3.5L; the low end torque looks impressive though.
All due respect to Edmunds, BMW has announced (Geneva) the twin turbo 3.0L 6 - though they have not publicly announced what cars it will be in. They have not announced a 3.5L 6.
http://vodcast.bmw.com/stories/1430536/
So - my bet would be on a 3.0L TT with 300+ HP labeled as: 335ci (maybe a 335i 4-dr, I hope) for 2007.
- Ray
Watching & waiting . . .