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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • kappy44kappy44 Member Posts: 20
    Since I'm the one who started this and I will test vehicle again this weekend there is a problem. For those of you that don't think yours will overheat.....I'll bet I can do it:
    1. Do not exceed 15-20 mph...hover around 2000 rpm.
    2. Put a load on the vehicle by either towing or driving in soft sand or going over speed bumps where you accelerate and brake for at least one mile.
    3. Put the a/c on, temp at coolest, and inside setting (recirculate setting).
    4. Leave tranny in drive.

    Regarding temp analysis, I reported same a couple of months ago. Redline on the temp gauge is 242 degrees and tranny temp was 210 when problem was confirmed by dealer tech who was onboard with me.

    Yes, we need to post the contacts above dealers we can find with phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc. Chrysler is not responsive enough and ultimately we need to find a mechanism to get someone in the media to report that this is an unsolved problem....that will get action....I'll report back on my follow-up test this weekend.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Hi winter2,
    I received confirmation from the cooling expert of the experiment I'm working for:
    -the two unmatched fans will reduce the efficiency of the system.
    Let's wait and see...
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Just found the following link where they say Never use both a pusher and puller electric fan on the same radiator. It's quoted in the electrical fan paragraph...
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/coolingsys.asp
  • actarusactarus Member Posts: 20
    I tested my jeep with the new thermostat....no improvement.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Member Posts: 107
    "Many aftermarket fans are rated by horsepower, and do not be surprised if in many cases you cannot find the fan that meets your power requirements. The only trick I can offer is to cover as much surface area of the radiator as possible, which may very likely mean multiple fans, and use a "puller" fan if it is your primary fan and a "pusher" if using it only as an auxiliary. Never use both a pusher and puller electric fan on the same radiator."

    This paragraph appears to be contradtory. It seems to me that series fans will increase air flow and so the net efficiency of the cooling system. As long as the fans are blowing in the same direction, you should get more flow. Won't the "system resistance" of the radiator remain the same? There are many examples in the HVAC world where multiple fans are used. Fans may windmill, but do not cavitate. There is no Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH) needed to my knowledge.

    I haven't had this problem, but I wonder if there isn't a restriction in the radiator or any cooler mounted to share the air flow. Are there dampers in the air flow that could be restricting flow? I guess I should pop the hood and give this thing a look. I don't want to be stranded due to an overheating engine. Please give us the solution when it's found.
  • jimi7jimi7 Member Posts: 17
    "Many aftermarket fans are rated by horsepower, and do not be surprised if in many cases you cannot find the fan that meets your power requirements. The only trick I can offer is to cover as much surface area of the radiator as possible, which may very likely mean multiple fans, and use a "puller" fan if it is your primary fan and a "pusher" if using it only as an auxiliary. Never use both a pusher and puller electric fan on the same radiator."

    I don't think the statements are contradictory. For example, on the Cherokee, there is a main mechanical fan and an auxillary electric fan next to mechanical. I'm guessing you don't flow more air with a push and pull on either side of the radiator and typcially pushers move less air than pullers so a pusher could restrict airflow.

  • w6373w6373 Member Posts: 6
    After many hours of discussion with my service manager and the Chrysler district manager, Chrysler has agreed to buy back my Jeep. The district manager, said Chrysler knows they have a cooling problem, but right now they don't know how to fix it. He said they are working on the problem, but currently there is no fix in sight. I hate to give back my Jeep, but with the tempurature in the 105 to 110 range the Jeep cannot be driven.
  • datamandataman Member Posts: 12
    Where is the dealership that you had this discussion. I would like to know for reference purposes. It may help others having the issue to streamline communication with DC.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Member Posts: 107
    I don't think the statements are contradictory. For example, on the Cherokee, there is a main mechanical fan and an auxillary electric fan next to mechanical. I'm guessing you don't flow more air with a push and pull on either side of the radiator and typcially pushers move less air than pullers so a pusher could restrict airflow.

    If they are on the same side, they are in parallel and not in series. In series, the air flowing out of one fan will flow into the inlet of the other. I agree if you have two fans on the same side of the radiator and one blows while the other sucks that they will work against one another.

    I also have to admit I was wrong about the general use of fans in series. Per the following link, you generally add fans in parallel for more flow. Fans in series will give you a higher pressure drop. Although common sense tells me that if I have a higher pressure drop across the same radiator that I will get more flow. If I have X pressure against the radiator at 20 miles per hour and 2X the pressure at 30 miles per hour, I will get more air flow. As you raise the pressure on the system curve, you should get more flow.

    http://www.greenheck.com/technical/tech_detail.php?display=files/Product_guide/multfansyst- ems

    I find this buy back thing a lot more disturbing than not having the affinity laws for fans clearly in my head. I don't want a heating problem to show up on my Jeep on crossing a pass someday. Hopefully, these are just a few isolated incidents.

    Do the automobile manufacturer's ever lower themselves to actually responding to concerns and questions directly on forums? It sure would be good if they did. I'd like to see this even if they had a disclaimer that this isn't an official relaease or some such legal nonsense first.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Do the automobile manufacturer's ever lower themselves to actually responding to concerns and questions directly on forums?

    There is at least one Dodge rep reading Edmunds and occasionally participating. Whether the rep decides to join in here is up to the rep (and the manufacturer's legal department ;) ).

    (We also have a BMW rep and used to have an official Subaru rep with her own discussion; probably some others registered that I don't know about, and probably lots of manufacturer people - usually customer service reps or marketing types - lurking and reading).

    Steve, Host
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The multiple-fan systems your link refers to can have good performance since they are synchronised by the 60 cycle ac current. This is not the case with the Liberty. The mechanical fan has a variable speed (flow) and the electric fan could possibly act as a mask reducing the actual surface of the radiator. There are a few posts in the UK for retrofitting vintage cars and also Hot-Rod web sites in the US where this topic has been discussed.
  • vtdogvtdog Member Posts: 163
    Does anyone know how to disable the very annoying 15mph autolock system.
    I tried the one one the web from another forum for pt cruisers, but it didnt work.
    I do not have the overhead console, if that helps
  • datamandataman Member Posts: 12
    Today I took a drive from Phoenix toward Flagstaff. It was the first time that my CRD dealt with any type of climbing on the roadway. A couple steep climbs were 1 to 3 miles in length. The temperature guage went to about 3 hash marks from the red line (not towing). Once I leveled out the temperature dropped. Had I been towing something, which I typically do, it would have overheated. It seems to me that I may have a vehicle that will overheat.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Thank you 4kster and winter2. Caribou1 has been asking for useful data to help solve the overheating problem. Nobody mentioned exhaust gas pyrometers like the big boys use. Is this an issue? What mpg's are the overheaters getting? Is the turbo spooling too fast? Our CRD has not experienced overheating. One post awhile back stated the engine cover made a great office decoration. Your posts answered that question and more. It doesn't seem to be a DC engineering problem as much, by your posts, as an execution problem. DC was the first, I believe, to buy the cheapest parts from whomever and wherever. Then there is the assembly line, where the goal is to kick it out to the dealers. Since this does not appear to be some universal problem, should we share build dates to see any possible link? Our door sticker has a Mfg date of 1-05.
  • willysjeepwillysjeep Member Posts: 107
    The multiple-fan systems your link refers to can have good performance since they are synchronised by the 60 cycle ac current. This is not the case with the Liberty. The mechanical fan has a variable speed (flow) and the electric fan could possibly act as a mask reducing the actual surface of the radiator. There are a few posts in the UK for retrofitting vintage cars and also Hot-Rod web sites in the US where this topic has been discussed.

    That makes sense, "normal" 60 cycle, 50 cycle or 400 cycle fans with same number of poles would spin at the same rate. Thanks.

    It doesn't seem to be a DC engineering problem as much, by your posts, as an execution problem. DC was the first, I believe, to buy the cheapest parts from whomever and wherever.

    I wonder if this is not a generic design problem. The parts from the subsuppliers should have met whatever Daimler Jeep specified. Quality control records from the subsupplier should have indicated whether the parts had problems.

    I haven't seen it, but I haven't pulled a heavy load up a grade. Could they have just sized the overall cooling system too small? Has there been anyone who has consistantly pulled a load over a grade without overheating? Do radiators have performance that needs to be derated at higher elevations? Lots of funny things happen when air density changes. I know of some other products that need this derating. Since this is the first year they've sold these things in North America, maybe they didn't allow enough design margin. I know they've sold them in Europe for a few years. I wonder if the radiator / cooling is the same.

    Easy for me to ask dumb questions, that's why it would be good if a guy from the company addressed this forum directly. It would be a simple courtesy to those who purchased their product.

    My door sticker says the same as Tired Old Dave's / 1-05.
  • ryoungetryounget Member Posts: 9
    I got my CRD about 3 weeks ago. I traded in a 7.3 Excursion. I was a little apprehensive about towing my boat with the Jeep. Boat, motor, and trailer are just under 5000lb. You could hardly tell the difference when towing with the Excursion.
    After getting a new hitch to allow for the height difference I hooked up the Liberty and started off. I could definitely hear the turbo whine with this load but I was pleasantly surprised by the acceleration. It really is not much different than with the Excursion. I know without a doubt that I am towing a heavy load but it has been very well mannered for such a short wheelbase. The boat/trailer combo is about twice the length of the Jeep.
    The first trip I went 45mi. each way with hills and got about 16mpg at 60-65 mph outside temp 99F. Yes, the a/c was on high. X used to get about 12mpg.
    The temp gauge goes from half to 3/4 and back again a lot. It seems to depend on hills and the temp comes down very quickly (about 10 seconds). It has never gone above 3/4.
    I also made a round trip w/o boat 147 miles each way, filled up before and after and used 9.5 gallons @ 60mph. I am real pleased with the performance and mileage.
  • jkievit240jkievit240 Member Posts: 6
    The local jeep dealer says CRDs can't be sold in California. Can a used
    CRD be registered in Cal? I also understand if I bought a new CRD in another
    state, I can eventually register it in Cal, but I have to wait a certain amount
    of time beforee bringing it in. Does anyone know How I can do this legally?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "California law considers any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer when acquired by a California resident or business to be a new vehicle. This holds true whether or not the vehicle has been registered in another state. If you acquire a new vehicle from another state, you may not subsequently drive it to accumulate over 7,500 miles to circumvent the law. DMV cannot accept an application to register the vehicle, and you cannot register or operate the vehicle in California."

    California DMV

    Steve, Host
  • jkievit240jkievit240 Member Posts: 6
    So the only way to own a CRD in Calif is to find a used
    one from out of state with more than 7500 mi?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Apparently. There's probably some talk about it over in the Diesels in the News discussion too.

    Steve, Host
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Thanks for your parts supplier response and engineering specifications. I remember a car talk? newpaper column referencing ford thermostats. A guy with a ford has a flat tire - change the thermostat. A guy with a ford asks for directions - change the thermostat. Our other vehicle is a 2004 Malibu with the transaxle that got the undersized chain cog. It's supposed to be only a resonating noise issue. The vehicle has been problem free (two oil changes and an air filter)and at least one poster in that discussion isn't having the transaxle cog changed either. Again, thanks for the Mfg date.
  • actarusactarus Member Posts: 20
    also mine 1-05.....
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Hey! That's great...What is your build date? It's on the drivers door. Thanks!

    Mine is 3-05
  • spetespete Member Posts: 73
    The past few days it has been 90+ degrees here in Wisconsin - and my CRD does not like the heat! After driving easily for 5-10 miles my heat guage takes off - nearly reaching the red area on the guage - and the transmission gpes into a "no shift" mode - take my foot off the throttle and it feels just like I have my foot on the brake! Really weird - When I stop to let the engine cool down, it only take about a minute to get it back to normal temp. But then it starts all over again - 10 miles then overheats- the tach stays at 2500+ rpm until I let it cool down again. Is this the computer telling the tyanny not to shift because the operating temp is too high? I am calling the dealer in the morning and see if they can look at it right away. I was hoping to pull my trailer next weekend but the way this thing is operating I can't even drive it with no load! Any omne else experincing overheating problems?
  • anomiousanomious Member Posts: 170
    Hi! Lots of guys are...read #1138... What's your build date? It's on the driver's door.
  • gonedieselgonediesel Member Posts: 7
    I have a CRD that is overheating also. I am towing a camper that weighs less than 2000lbs. Unfortunately I am in the middle of an 8 week vacation and have been overheating every friggen day. Overheating symptoms are similar to the other posts. I am considering arbitration or a buy back of some sort. This is not a problem that can be overlooked or ignored. I have been to several dealerships and each say, "overheating, what overheating?" They are clueless or are told to act clueless. With all the posts here I can't believe the dealerships have never heard of an overheating issue.

    Has anyone had any damage to the engine due to the overheating?

    Another problem I am having is the rear brakes dragging. I noticed from the tire monitoring system that the rear tire pressure in the morning would be the same as the front. Then after a while of driving the rear pressure would climb up. On my trip I had to drop the pressure 5lbs because they would rise so much. At first I thought the tire pressure was to low due to the weight of the camper. It only has a tongue weight of about 100lbs. Then I happen to touch the wheel and about got a 3rd degree burn. Both rear wheels were way too hot to touch. I tried the front and they were warm. After about 3000 miles I have started to notice the rear brakes making squeeking or grinding noise. The noise has progressively gotten worse.

    I am really getting sick of this vehicle. I am noticing a citrus smell every time I get near the thing. :lemon:
  • patentguypatentguy Member Posts: 45
    Build Date = 5-05

    No problems to report. No overheating. My temp. gauge has never got past the 1/2 way mark, even when towing a 2,000 lb. trailer.
  • datamandataman Member Posts: 12
    Build date on mine is 3-05
  • bcnailbcnail Member Posts: 10
    I also live in Wisconsin and have not experienced any problem with overheating. My problem has been a slow leak in the driver side front tire. The dealer couldn't find the leak, but it persists. I drove from Milwaukee to northern Wisconsin on Friday in hot 90+ degree weather at about 70 mph. The temp guage stayed just under the midline.
  • bcnailbcnail Member Posts: 10
    I have a problem with the CRD I've never had with any other car. When I use the windshield washer + wipers to clean the windows, which get covered with bug guts, the only thing that gets removed is the dirt. The guts remained splattered ont he windows. I have to get out my bottle of windex and manually clean the windows. Are there better wipers availabe for the CRD?
  • actarusactarus Member Posts: 20
    Yesterday I was on the highway (speed 120 km/h) there was a little but long climb and my liberty got hot...very hot...I had to slowdown and wait.....

    They are totally clueless...

    I'm so sick of this vehicle that i give them a month to resolve the problem then i'll sell my car.

    Bye
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Could you ask the dealer to remove the additional electric fan and drive without it?
    This at least could help understanding the radiator issue. If it doesn't work buy the 2003 second hand. It's great and needs only one fan!
  • actarusactarus Member Posts: 20
    I've just sold one 2 months ago for the model year 2005!!!!
    No comment......
  • spetespete Member Posts: 73
    Build date on my CRD say February of 05. I purchased the first one that the local dealer got in. Makes me wonder if I should have waited a while to get one. Trouble is, I had already waited a long time for Chrysler to get these coming in to dealers and I needed a vehicle! - After thinking about how mine acts - it is almost like the convertor locking up - it pulls REAL hard - the tach just keeps climbing - and when I take my foot out of the throttle it is like the breaks are being pushed - Oh - and I am also experiencing the rear breaks "hanging" up. When I first back it out of the garage in the morning, they "clink and clank" like something is all out of place in the rear - someone else had mentioned that in a posting - looks like mine may be at the dealer for a while. I did print all of these postings out and am going to give them to the service manager - it helps to show them that I am not the only one haing the problems. Funny, but I still like the vehicle!
  • anthonykanthonyk Member Posts: 17
    Build date is 1-05. So for no overheating. Towed 1200lbs over Alaska range at 70F with the gauge not moving from the middle position. The only small issue is back right door electric lock is inop. :)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Besides the overheating issue, have you noticed a big difference with the extra torque? Do you get better than 10 Liters / 100 Km in mixed driving? When I saw the 2005 at the dealership I noticed the electric fan but wasn't curious enough to open the hood. The new front grille and inside decor discouraged me from test driving it.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    You are welcome. Have been busy and my four day mini-vacation never materialized. Sick cat.

    Any how, I see that Chrysler is willing to buy back a CRD with an overheating issue. I would think they would offer the person a new one that has been tested to make sure it does not overheat.

    Your comments about buying from the cheapest supplier is not relevant. All of the manufacturers do it. Your comment about execution is a bit problematic. You comment that the problem happens with some but not others. The build date on mine is May, 2005. My CRD does not overheat no matter what I do to it.

    Your comment about the turbo does bring up a memory, however. Turbos have waste gates. If the waste gate does not open up properly or is stuck, then what? Overheat! I had a 1985 Dodge Daytona turbo and I played with the waste gate setting increasing it to 7.5 pounds of boost no matter what instead of 7.5 pounds of boost for about 15 seconds. Besides blowing the transmission, the temperature gauge needle ran at a higher position. If I played hard, then the engine temp would rise toward the red zone in a matter of moments, only dropping down if I stopped playing.

    I have no idea how the waste gate is controlled on the CRD. On my old Dodge it was controlled by a spring and vacuum.

    The overheating occurs under some kind of load situation, towing, playing in sand dunes, whatever. Look at the waste gate as the engine is possibly being overboosted under these situations. Too much air + too much fuel = too much heat.

    Hope this helps.
  • actarusactarus Member Posts: 20
    Yes, there is a big difference. The engine is more elastic and give a better response at low revs. Fuel consumption is more or less the same.
  • crdlibertyownrcrdlibertyownr Member Posts: 1
    I bought my wife her 05 CRD 2 1/2 months ago and it has been in the dealership twice now for the same thing you mentioned--the clanking noise when backing out of the garage in the morning. The dealership finally replaced the brake system in the rear and so far it seems to have fixed the problem. I love the engine, but have had the damn thing in the Shop several times. The computer was defective and it took several weeks to get a new one in. Once replaced, it caused my codes to be tripped. It all seems to be fixed now--knock wood. Not very impressed with the quality of workmanship at their assembly plant. I drove it off the lot and discovered it needed a front end allignment. Had the ECM problem I mentioned, as well as the popping noise when backing up. I too researched the CRD and all my 4x4 magazines raved about them, which now makes me question the authors and whether they are truly unbiased. Hope your CRD's problems have been addressed.
  • kappy44kappy44 Member Posts: 20
    It ain't gonna happen in Alaska @ 70 degrees w/o a/c going full blast and low tow load.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Thanks winter2. Hope you get a shot at a another vacation. I don't have the heating issue either. Thanks for the waste gate info. Research of diesel chipping seems to bring up that equation. I had wanted a Dodge w/Cummins for years and followed edmunds and other discussions as well as talking to owners. I haven't taken time to go through the shop manual to see how the CRD handles the waste gate need. You may be able to tell me what it is that I hear after I garage the CRD. (I open the hood sometimes on these 95-100 degree days) then idle for 2-3 minutes for the turbo cool down. A few seconds after shutdown, I hear I think a hissing and then what sounds like a metal flap falling shut. In the past, I talked to a mature woman while she was cooling down her Dodge Cummins dually tell me, sure some people don't cool their turbos but she won't be buying a new turbo at 80k or 90k miles.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    crdlibertyownr, could you expand the ECM issue. What problem(s) led to the ECM to be replaced instead of reflashed? I also had a rear brake issue. It was mentioned in post #874. It came as no surprise because of posts on the liberty problems forum. Mine was a grinding metal to metal (I think, after ~2,000 miles). We always use the emergency brake when we park. On some vehicles, I think this is the only way to keep the shoes adjusted and unfrozen. I believe this was a common GM problem and perhaps one of the reasons for a return to rear drums on the new trucks. I did notice that the rear rotors were not wearing-in before the (emergency brake linings?) grinding started. Maybe I had two problems. Also, I think caribou1 mentioned at one of his services that the rear brakes (e-brake) cable was adjusted. My e-brake only holds on the last 1-2 clicks. the dealer said this is normal.
  • n3qikn3qik Member Posts: 6
    The turbo on the US 05 is a variable vane turbo, not the wastegate type. The vane is controlled by the BCM thru a solinold to a vacume piston. If the vane should stick and a over boost does accure. The BCM will defuel the engine and go into limp mode with the CEL on. I have done this on my jeep as I bypass the vacume solinold. I only got 1 mile before it went into limp mode. My boost gauge only goes up to 30 psi and that was pegged. Oops!!
  • jsymskijsymski Member Posts: 18
    I'm at the point of having to return my CRD to Jeep also due to the overheating. I have two certified letters to Chrysler waiting a response on what they are going to do to resolve the problem. Where is the dealership you are working with, or even better, what is the name of the district Manager you are working with?
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    I agree with cooling down the turbo. My Dodge Cummins has 207000+ with no turbo problems.
    I am not sure what the hissing is, mine does that too, but the metal flap I think is the "throttle valve" actually falling open. It is there to choke off the engine when you shut it off so the engine doesn't vibrate so much on shut down.
  • datamandataman Member Posts: 12
    My dealership service manager called me today and said that DC had contacted him about the overheating problem. He said that DC is very aware of the problem and has an engineering team working on it. He then proposed something to try.

    He (service manager) said that the Dodge Neon had overheating problem. The mechanics at this dealership, who are heavily involved in racing, solved that problem for DC by suggesting a coolant additive. He called DC and asked them if he should try it on the CRD, they said go for it and assured me that there would be no warranty issues

    They (DC/Dealership) had me put in a bottle of BG Products Super Cool (which they provided) for diesel engines. It is supposed to enhance the cooling capabilities of the existing fluid. Apparently Ford had an overheating problem with the Cummins Diesel and BG solved it by reformulating the coolant. So, I put the additive in today. It will be tested later this week.
  • mdamickmdamick Member Posts: 277
    I have noticed that mine will go up to 3/4 on long grades with the A/C on.
    When I got to the top it cooled right off. I have had it cool off going up as well, it seems that the fan clutch can take its time kicking in.
    I ran up the same hill with the A/C off and it only went to just barely over 1/2.
    I have yet to tie my 4000# trailer and see how it acts.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Good Morning,

    What a weekend.

    Any way, in a later posting it turns out that there is no waste gate. I have never heard the hissing or the metal flap closing sound, but then never really listened for it. As for what the hissing could be, it could be related to the A/C equalizing, the pressurized air being released from the intake system, or the vacuum within the system being relieved. The flap falling shut, might be a heater/vent door closing as the vacuum in the system goes away. These are only guesses.

    As the later post explains, if there is an overboost, it is computer controlled and the engine goes into limp mode. For those with the overheat issue, I am curious if there is a defective bit of software or a defective sensor allowing this to happen. :)
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The wiper blades are not the issue. Try cleaning the windshield and then coating it with Rain-X or an equivalent product. This helps immensely. Also, I use Rain-X Bug Remover washer fluid. I have also used Prestone Bug Wash. Both are quite good and do a better job of removing bug guts than the 99 cent blue stuff. :D
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Have you had your dealer apply the TSB related to the trans acting/shifting badly. Get that done.

    As to the brakes, mine makes a tiny bit of noise in the AM when backing out but clear up in a few feet of driving. I wonder if the emergency brake is binding?
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