To answer your question about coking, it is not the bearings that get coked, but it is the oil where the bearings live that gets coked. Oil be it synthetic or not has a temperature where it starts coming apart. The best example I can give you is when you put some cooking oil in a frying pan and apply too much heat to it. It turns black, and adheres to the frying pan like cement. That is coking. In your mind's eye, think of the same thing happening to needle bearings in a turbocharger.
When you cool down a turbocharger, the oil is pulling heat away from the bearings, shaft, etc. at idle faster than the exhaust can heat the turbocharger fan, shaft, etc.
It is very possible that the turbochargers on these vehicles you mention are also water-cooled. That might do away with the need to cool down.
Your friend with the Mercedes is fortunate. I spoke with a service person at a local Subaru dealer and he stated that cool down is not a mandatory item. He did state that cool down is better for the turbo in the long run, be it a Subaru, Audi, or a Jeep CRD. The CRD times seem long, but VM Motori has been building diesels since 1947 and they have a better understanding of what is better for a turbocharger than you or I do or ever will.
I suggest you call and ask not only your dealer, but some independent shops. See what they say. I am sure many of them will confirm what the guy at the Subaru dealer said.
I was curious to do my own inspection and the findings were horrific. If you click on the slideshow and please let me know if any of you have had these findings. Thank you. Once you enter the slideshow you can click PAUSE and then click on LARGE VIEW you can get a better look.
Picture 1: Pool of dried oil underneath the hose/fitting. Picture 2: A result from wiping my finger underneath the hose/fitting. Picture 3: " " Picture 4: The hose to the left of the fuel filter has oily soot around the tip of the hose and around the hose clamp. Picture 5: " " Picture 6: Another pool of dried oil Picture 7: " "
"If I ever wreck my truck..." We don't get the vehicles you have in Europe. We haven't started to pay $5.00 per gallon yet. Big is perceived as better here, tougher etc.
Can I assume you bought your CRD for the same reasons that we bought ours.
A Dodge Cummins 2500 is what I thought I wanted (and maybe I do). But why drive a big pickup all the time who's bed can only hold so much and then you need a trailer anyway. The near future models may bring some techological gains. A future purchase could give us what we want more of, now that we have driven a CRD.
The CRD is built like you posted-look underneath, check out the weight for its' size and its' ability to pass an obstacle. Real 4wd. Real power. Several posters have talked about their boats, trailers, etc.
I'm thinking of that next purchase and I am asking DC to get their act together. The CRD is what it is and we all know how great that can feel. I have no idea what I would replace the CRD with. McPhearson strut SUV's - no. Lexus/Toyota Land Cruisers-no. The CRD does what I need and gives that warm feeling inside until I read that one of us has a glitch. Then the glitch goes away and the warm feeling is back.
Thank you for helping this side of the big pond. I will continue to enjoy your posts from the Alps? and pictures like the one you posted.
I don't cool mine down unless I have been driving on the interstate or with a load. If I am on a road trip I usually don't shut the engine off until the end of day. Around town I am not spooling up the turbo enough to worry about it.
I drive an 80's era mercedes turbo. I am looking to get my wife a fuel efficient SUV or large sedan. A diesel maybe the liberty. I've read almost all the posts since people actually took delivery of US models. Now turbo cooldown. For most of use commuters who fight traffic waiting in traffic and being careful not to accelerate over the RPMs that the turbo kicks in(about 2000 on the Liberty and 2500 on m mercedes) the 5-10 minutes between the highway and our destination are more than adequate. I don't know if I would do this except at a truck stop but leave your diesel running while you fuel. Unlike a gas powered car this is not particularly dangerous since diesel fuel is much less explosive. The main reason to cool down the engines is to preserve the oil. Turbo chargers are a simple turbine and rarely fail. Especially the ones of european lineage.
I appreciate all the good posts. Hopefully I will get a good choice for my next car.
I know that with my tdi with an egt probe, much smaller turbo and engine than a crd,temps pre turbo can get up over 1200 degrees around town in short order. You dont necessarily need to spool that bad boy up in order to subject it to extreme temps. Its just a measure of saftey to let a turbo cool down. Subarus have a water jacket on their turbos and coolant and oil continue to circulate after shutown,by design. Which is great and negates the need for much cooldown. Synthetic oil minimizes the need to some degree, but what is a few seconds to wait before shutting down? If you look up the biggest reason for turbo failures it is because of coking due to hot shutdows. Its a simple turbine, but it sure is expensive if it breaks. You get used to it after a while. Its cheap insurance
Hi. I am new to this discussion board and have read most of the posts going back to Jan 05. It seems like there are a lot of people posting here that know A LOT more than me. We bought ours on 8/6/5 and I only have 300 miles on it now. I feel like the guy that had posted earlier that said he hasn't had any problems but is worried after reading this message board. I find myself constantly checking my temperature gauge. A lot of my questions have been answered, but I still have a couple if someone could take a minute to help me.
My drive to work is about 3 minutes to get to the freeway around 50 mph and then I am on the freeway for 14 miles traveling 65 to 75 mph. When I get off the freeway it is about 3 miles from there at 35 mph. After this type of drive, how long should I leave it idle? My temperature gauge has never went over the halfway mark. But am I to understand that the gauge is not exactly the way to tell that the turbo has cooled? I have read the part in the manual with the "Turbocharger 'Cool Down' Chart" and am still confused as to how you know when the turbocharger temperature is cool.
Also, how much is a normal oil change for the diesel? My dealership is offering for $400 a prepaid plan that has 12 oil changes and with every other change they rotate the tires. They also give 2 sets of wiper blades, as far as I know with no expiration date. That comes out to about $33 for an oil change. Is that a good deal? Is it better warranty-wise to have this type of stuff done at the dealer?
I am sure I will have more questions. I absolutely love driving my Jeep, I went from a Honda Accord to the Jeep and it is a blast. I am hoping and praying I don't have problems with it. I checked the door and it was made 5/05, does that make a difference?
Sorry if I sound like a girl too much, but I am new to the diesel thing.
Driving 35 mph at the end of your drive to work is sufichient cool down time for the turbo. If the dealer is going to use senthetic oil witch is regured by Jeep (6.2 us qts) that would be a heck of a deel. The bulit date, mine is 1-05 and I have 2900 milles on it, NO problems yet.
The service people today found there was an error code. Apparently the "PCM", I guess that's the computer, was some how sensing a fuel leak. The mechanic said in the program is an automatic shutdown for safety reasons if there is a fuel leak. There is no leak. The conclusion is the PCM is bad, because everything else about the vehicle checks out. This does make sense. Oh, the problem occurred with or without the cruise control. When this is replaced we are going to test drive this thing and see if this trail rating badge means something, failure will mean no more diesels for me.
The dealer is very cooperative in wanting to keep me happy, and has offered to take the CRD back and let me have a different Liberty that is not a CRD, but I will have to settle for a one that lists 5-6 thousand dollars less. Talk about depreciation, the vehicle is worth 25 percent less than when I drove it out less than three months ago. Upon closer analysis, this is actually a much better deal than if I negotiated an exchange through the Lemon Law. This has been a real education. Hopefully this time they fix it and the CRD runs as advertised.
Can I assume you bought your CRD for the same reasons that we bought ours. Yes, I bought the Liberty CRD for pleasure and the possibility to drive safely along all kinds of roads and trails one can see on a detailed road map whenever I wish. A future purchase could give us what we want more of, now that we have driven a CRD. I think we are a bit 'spoiled' to expect something better. I have the feeling of being in a dead end street for choosing an equivalent truck. This one handles like a toy everywhere and can park in a tiny spot left by a VW Golf. Very few civilised trucks have their wheels so far apart considering the overall length. I've not yet seen posts from people going in the bush or places where you need to crawl, creep and pray nobody is coming in front of you. This is really when you feel the power of the diesel engine, when you can't turn back and your 4 tires are just at the limit of ripping. BFG T/As then become the natural choice...
"Unlike a gas powered car this is not particularly dangerous since diesel fuel is much less explosive."
I also sometimes fuel up (rarely and illegally) with the engine running at truck stops so the turbo can continue to cool. But you should be aware that diesel can be much more explosive than gasoline in the tank.
True, diesel is much less volatile than gasoline. Outside of the tank diesel is difficult to light with a match while gasoline which is very volatile flames easily. It turns out that inside of a partially full tank diesel fumes can mix with air in about the right proportion to create an explosive mixture. Gasoline on the other hand is so volatile inside of a tank that the mixture is generally too rich to be explosive (not like in the movies).
I believed what you said about the safety of diesel and gasoline to be correct most of my adult life. I only recently found out that diesel can be very explosive in a tank that is partially full. So, when I fuel up with the engine running I first touch metal on the pump handle assembly with one hand and touch the alloy wheel with the other to discharge static electricity.
1. I have 5,980 miles on mine and had one little problem with an exhaust bracket that was fixed the first week I owned the thing. No problems since. No overheating. No brake drag. (Knock on wood). The posts here are very valuable and in depth but are not statistically representative of all CRDs.
2. Turbo cool down. I follow the book. My commute is almost identical to yours. Out of habit I idle for 15-30 seconds. After intensive highway driving I let it go a couple of minutes, usually in the driveway at the house.
3. The temperature gauge is the coolant temp and not the turbo temp.
4. I got my oil changed with Mobil One 0-50 weight synthetic (specified in the owners manual) and the oil change was $75. I get all work done on vehicles still under warranty at the dealership which is true for CRD and also my VW GTI. Question the dealership on making sure they don't want to switch you to a different cheaper oil. (They offered me a non synthetic API Certified Oil that was rated for Diesel but I opted to keep with the expensive synthetic oil--mostly to protect the turbo since sythetic oil is much more resisitant to breakdown at high temperatures) Just check what you are buying with that plan and make sure they will actually do 12 oil changes and not shirk back to what is specified in the manual...6,200 mile intervals for rough service.
5. You don't sound like a girl too much, most people are new to this diesel thing because we don't have many.
Boy, it is hard not to fall in love with the bone-crushing torque the Liberty CRD has once the turbo kicks in. Our situation is similar to yours, as far as having several miles between home and (real) need to work the turbo. Logic says this is an advantageous situation. Trust the logic. I do.
The oil change deal sounds great. Just remember that your dealer is a business and likely has business-like motives to offer it. Trust, but verify; is a good philosophy on this.
I'd also add that we need more "girls" and fewer chicken-littles in this forum. Your post is what I hope it has more of: People asking for, and providing, useful advice.
Unfortunate persons who are having actual problems with their CRDs need to be calling Daimler-Chrysler weekly, daily, twice-daily, or hourly- if that's what it takes- to get the needed service bulletins generated for our dealerships to do warranty work off of. This is true ESPECIALLY if their problem is difficult to be replicated reliably upon demand, or delivery, to a dealership. Otherwise, the dealership service treadmills will prevail. 1-800-925-5337 (-JEEP). Dealerships can do very nice work, but they are not the best diagnosicians.
Direct phone line to Daimler-Chrysler Customer Service, IF no recall has been issued for a problem, is 1-800-992-1997; press through the automated menu 2, then 1, then 5.
A prepaid oil change and tire rotation plan for $400 sounds tempting. Find out the details. Make sure they use the correct oil for the CRD. Get it in writing. If the dealer does not use synthetic oil that the CRD requires, then they will void the warranty for you. Something does not sound right at $33/oil change. Consider that Mobil 1 0W-40 is about $4.50/quart (on sale) and you need seven of them per oil change, that is $31.50 for the oil alone. Add about $2.50 for the gasket, and about $7.00 for the oil filter (NAPA). That comes to $41.00 by my reckoning. Something seems fishy here. :confuse:
Has anyone seen a remote starter for the diesel? My dealer is looking but noting is out for the diesel yet. With the colder weather coming, this would be a nice option. Also I wonder if it could be configured on a timer to let the turbo-motor cool down after the key has been removed. Just a thought.
I wish to respond to the viscosity spread concern.
Some synthetic oils have a natural/built in viscosity range by design that does not require the addition of additives to enhance the viscosity range. Other synthetic require the addition of additives to enhance the viscosity range. It is the addition of these additives that disturbs me. They are generally not synthetic and thus cannot tolerate the pounding and heat that the synthetic base stock can. These additive will break down and will sludge up the engine. I know of at least two oils that do not use these viscosity enhancing additives, Red Line and Amsoil. Both have 5W-40 oils that meet or exceed the specs that DC calls for in the CRD.
As to a 50 weight oil, that is generally reserved for air-cooled engines such as in Porsche. The possible bad side effect of using a 50 weight oil is blowing a seal.
Wig, if your considering a trade or lemon law, you need to do some reading or talk to a lemon law or consumer lawyer. Do not negotiate or even discuss anything as such with the dealer until you have talked to lawyer. your wasting your time and could loose a bunch of your hard earned $$$$.
I, for one, do not believe there are any “chicken-littles” on this forum and usernames do not always imply or guarantee the sex of the individuals asking the questions. Their questions get answered regardless.
Our CRD has been out of service for 23 days and counting. At first the dealer denied an error code because it is not a Liberty diesel code. Thanks to this forum I knew to have pictures of the dash to show to the service manager. Chrysler has since denied the existence of the code, but the dealership was able to say sorry but we have pictures.
Our first "actual" problem was occasional surging between 50 and 60 MPH at 2k miles. That problem was resolved with a computer “reflash”.
After that we thought our CRD was indestructible since it acted perfect. However, at 9k miles the engine coolant began overheating, the brakes were dragging and the previously mentioned phantom code could be retrieved in the odometer display. I may not be Chicken Little but for me the sky is "actually" falling.
Turn the ignition key from the off position to the on position 4 times leaving it on the 4th time. The odometer will display "done" if there is no fault code(s). Otherwise, it will display the fault code(s) momentarily followed by the word "done".
For whom the bell tolls. It was sad when you first reported problems. There aren't that many CRD's out there and maybe DC was premature. My dealership had one, we bought it. He got three more, and still has them, if anybody wants one. Are people afraid DC pulled a GM in this SUV attempt for diesels. I wasn't worried because I remember ("remember" that's a dangerous thing for me) DC stepping up to the plate with the 4.0L piston problems. Did GM satisfy customers with 5.3 piston issues-I don't know.
I thought the heating was the fan clutch. I thought the brake drag was, as caribou1 reported, the check valve in the booster. (My service manager stated that the check valve issue would not be a new problem to DC)
Since the heat issue was resolved, I had the dealership install the 3 part skid plates while the CRD was in the shop to order parts to turn my CRD from 2wd back to 4wd. 4wd used 3 times. A post led me back to jeep.com where it is recommended we drive in 4wd full time to reduce wear. Am I wrong to be using 2wd as the default?
I need help now. The third skid plate was not for the transmission pan/oil filter but was the engine plate that we get standard with the CRD and was returned to DC. I thought I read somewhere about a place that is/would fabricate the skid plate to protect the trans pan and oil filter. Any help?
While in the shop I got the PCM update. Now I know why you may not have understood my first post long ago. My CRD would hesitate then throw you back in the seat like a big boy dodge cummins. Civilized now.
"I also sometimes fuel up (rarely and illegally)..." Is it illegal under federal or specific state law to fuel a diesel with the motor running? I always idle during fill ups.
Diesels and explosion. When a relative-in-law saw our CRD he passed along this story of his experience as a tanker driver fueling up underground gas tanks at a gas station. It was very calm(an inversion?), his tanker truck's diesel was idling. Gas fumes were hanging and got sucked up into the diesels' intake and produced a runaway, rods thrown everywhere.
I've had 2 diesels. A GMC 6.5td. The pump got fried from water in the fuel. Other than that it was a good truck. My F250 7.3 TD has 92k and only broke down once. Still got me home on a 200 mile trip in limp mode and was promptly repaired for free the next day by the dealer. From my experience with diesels BAD FUEL causes most problems! The Jeep CRD is a market test vehicle. This is the first year of production in the US. I'm sure there are issues. But I can tighten a hose clamp.
My wife has a Land Rover but wants a newer fuel efficient SUV. We don't have 50K for a Tourig. Is the Jeep CRD junk? Or just a typical Jeep product?
> I need help now. The third skid plate was not for the transmission pan/oil filter > but was the engine plate that we get standard with the CRD and was returned > to DC. I thought I read somewhere about a place that is/would fabricate the > skid plate to protect the trans pan and oil filter. Any help?
Ha! This happened with my first attempt to buy the skid-plate package, too. The one marked "transmission" was the same front plate that already came on the vehicle. The local dealer was able to obtain the correct part number and re-order for me, and I now have the plate that covers the oil pan and filter and extends back to the transfer case (though I will say that its coverage of the oil filter could be a lot better).
Anyway, I'll look around here for the receipt. If I find it, I'll post the corrected part number.
I'm a bit confused. - What cured your overheating problem? Was it just the PCM sending wrong information to the temperature gauge? - Was there an additional problem with the brakes or again the PCM calling for help from the ABS system? A few french posts mention the PCM going 'wild' on the newer trucks but their diagnostic seems fuzzy to me. They say nothing about brakes, loose hose clamps and the trucks come from the same assembly line. Perhaps the PCM gets sea-sick coming over here :sick:
I would not say that this Jeep is junk nor would I say it is a typical Jeep product. I believe some of the issues, especially the PCM problems are teething pains. The overheating issues, brake problems are caused by batches of bad parts. Some of the issues are related to sloppy assembly and/or the dealer doing a rotten job of checking the vehicle before handing it over to the customer. At my dealer, the pre-delivery inspection takes three to four hours and there is a two or three page checklist the technician has to go through before the vehicle is delivered or put up for sale. I have a copy of of the one that came with my CRD.
I have had my CRD back to the dealer once to have the PCM re-flashed with updated software. Since then everything has been just fine. I have a vibration from the exhaust system in the back which I will take care of myself this weekend. I have been looking at the posts that have pictures associated with them. I have started looking at the position of clamps and looking at items that abut each other. I have turned a few clamps already and will adjust more this weekend. Items that abut each other will be re-positioned if possible or have padding of some sort put between them if feasible. I will also check every clamp that is adjustable to make sure it is snug. I check clamps monthly as part of my PM.
As to bad fuel being the biggest culprit in diesel engine failure or poor performance, I agree wholeheartedly. Do not buy on price. I have posted this previously and will repeat what I have said. Talk to people who own diesel powered pickups or big rigs. Ask them where they get their fuel locally. If they consistently name one place go there. If you have a very busy truckstop nearby, purchase your fuel there.
Hi Dave , just a note that even though this engine is new to us ,here in North America ,it isn't really new ,it has been in production in europe for 10 years,we just got the latest version. They have been putting them in the Cherrokee,GrCherrokee's,and now the Liberties for quite awhile now over seas. And it is quite possible you 'll be seeing a Chrysler minivan R/T ,and the new Caliber,with this option as well.I am hearing alot of rumours lately.Which I think it is about time. Especially because of Fuel prices being as high as they are,I think this will keep us competitive.
Actually, you are partially correct. The 2.8L in the Liberty is a variant of 2.5L they use in europe. VM Motori either bored and/or stroked the 2.5L to make the 2.8L. In europe, the minivans mostly get the 2.5L and they are just starting to offer the 2.8L in the minivans.
As I understand it, there is a possibility that the domestic Grand Cherokee will be getting a six cylinder diesel. It is a V-6. I have read that engine has 3.0L in displacement, 200 HP and 360 ft-lbs of torque. With numbers like that, why buy a hemi?
I noticed on my crd, the intercooler hose, passenger side rubbed a hole in the insulation of the hood. Anyone else noticing this? The dealers answer to addressing it was to put a tie wrap on it to keep it from rubbing. Bandaid fix but i guess it will work. Im quite sure that it would have eventually rubbed a hole in the ic pipe causing it to rupture and probably scare the heck out of my wife, as this is her daily driver.
I took my liberty in for its first change at 1900. Mobil 1, 0-40 was used. I put about 100 miles on the change, checked the oil and its black already. The filter does look like its been changed and there is a little oil around the plug. Is Mobil 1 dark not light brown when new or does the oil change color that fast. Who got the lube job, me or my jeep?
Thank you for your help. Some of us look and/or post elsewhere but I'm trying to stay here and comply with posting requirements.
I've bugged parts departments since February when we bought ours. Your part sounds like an extra long front skid plate.
I want the trans pan/oil filter protected. But I would gladly get the number and pay a restocking fee if it doesn't give the protection I believe we need.
Awhile back, my wife's uncle wanted to go his small mesa, way west of FT. Worth, TX. It was cut by a Caterpiller for a gas line to the well on top. The journey up was getting rocky as well as rutted from washouts. Backing down the path was not a trail rated but a most embarrassing experience.
I didn't have the heat problem. There was talk about air flow and skid plates. I didn't want to deter cooling of the aluminum cast oil pan and the hanging down oil filter. Maybe that's why DC doesn't mimic the long gasser skidplate from the third member back to the cross brace for the CRD.
My brake problem was a known liberty problem. The back pads were not wearing in and then around 2k miles a very loud grinding noise would show up on first backup. It also did it after stopped at a rodeo for a couple of hours to see my wife's nephews ride the broncs. It was so loud people looked from all over and even bothered horses tied up to trailers behind big trucks with their diesels running.
Maybe we should share VIN's as well as build dates. We bought ours on Valentine's Day and the CRD had been on the showroom floor for over a week. Three prior test drives, GM, SM, and one lady potential customer.
This is the first new jeep we had ever driven. I drove a jeep in nam somtimes as well as 3/4 and 2 1/2 trucks. I didn't know the CRD was supposed to drive as nice as it does now. Milleage is up. I got 24mpg driving mixed highway, stop and go, and idling. Before the reflash, if I didn't restrain my tired old foot to keep it off the pedal the engine would rev like crazy, shoot out of the hole smoking the tires.
Thank you and yes I've been going there and reading too.
Is this Provent really necessary? Will DC improve that little canister? Will DC give us that new egr?
My dealer will not let me Provent. They only go by DC's book. Maybe time to find a friendlier, closer, dealer. There are several but with rate times being cut even by DC, good mechanics are hard to find. I trust the ones I talked to at the dealer but I've noticed and sensed some strong emotions under their skin lately plus their eye contact and facial expressions.. Some pressure is up. I hope they don't leave. I use to have some fords and followed that mechanics information place on the internet that even helped expose the greenleaf? affair.
It's been mentioned here many times that's how I knew it was available. I believe it is: TSB 18-018-05
Our other vehicle is a '04 Mailbu LT that has been and is wonderful. MyGM web site says our VIN has a PCM reflash available also. I don't know why, it's running great but if it can do what this DC reflash did then I need to find a service advisor.
The color of the 0W-40 oil when new is similar to the color of new regular motor oil. Yes, it does get black quickly. It is the soot that the oil picks up that changes the color of the oil. Perfectly normal.
I don't know what the fade off idle is. If you have a few miles on yours without additives, have tightened all your clamps, and the air cleaner is okay, and have no mechanical issues, then I'm at a loss to help except to try a full bottle of redline.
Based on winter2's strong belief in red line catalyst, I withheld diesel kleen from some fillups and was going to try a full bottle of diesel catalyst again but the reflash happened. I went to the red line site and read that I believe some maintenance dose can be used after a clean up dose but full protection requires more than that.
I'm hoping that diesel kleen and redline can help clean the egr. Redline states high temperature cleaners but never states that is survives combustion to clean egr and/or the catalytic converter.
Frankly, I do not know what fade off idle happens to be.
I have only checked a few clamps and have found them to be snug. Most of the clamps I have messed with were to re-position them for either easier access/maintenance or to keep them from rubbing against a line or wire.
I ran my CRD without any additive for the first 700 miles after which I started using the RedLine product. Within fifty miles of starting the additive, the engine vibrated less, was quieter, and most notably starts faster. Also, the amount of smoke under load (acceleration) which was very little to begin with, has lessened even more. Also, the funky odor from the exhaust is less than before I started with the RedLine product. I can recall having this product recommended to me by a local MB dealer when I had my first diesel way back in the early 1980's. I did not try it then however.
Where do you get your fuel? What brand is it? What is the cetane rating? It should be marked on the pump. I generally use Shell because the cetane is 45. With a little Diesel Fuel Catalyst added, about six ounces per fill, it is really nice. Performance is quite brisk with no stuttering, unevenness during acceleration, in fact no problems whatsoever.
I am going to locate the EGR this weekend and make sure the wiring to it is in good order and tightly connected. If there any hoses going to it I will make sure they are in good shape too and make it a point to check the routing of these hoses..
The only jerking I can think of may come from the transmission. If you have had the TSB applied and it is still jerky, I suggest this. In the morning, after you start it, let the engine idle for about thirty seconds in park. This refills the torque converter which happens to drain into the body of the transmission while sitting overnight. Drive gently for the first mile or so. I have found this to be quite helpful. A light foot on the gas helps too. This is the same trans they stick in the full-size Dodge trucks. I have spoken to a few Dodge dealers and doing what I just suggested comes as a recommendation from their mechanics. It does work.
Appreciate the advice and I may be one of the few who really worked with a customer oriented dealer. They took the CRD back and I now have a Liberty Renagade that is of equal value and with alot more amenities than the Sport. Worked out a deal to where I spent about $600 extra. Most important is my wife likes it better, plus I trust it. Maybe I'll try again in a couple of years
I use Power Service. I have been getting 25-26 MPG and it starts and runs fine hot or cold. Never have been able to get it to smoke where I could tell from the drivers seat. The problem is only when the engine is not fully warmed up. It acts like a dead spot on the accelerator, like a carburetor engine with a defective accelerator pump. It is not a jerk like the transmission is acting up. You can here and feel the engine stop running for a split second. I think it is a software issue and will have to go back & have the dealer contact DC some more & come up with a fix.
Comments
When you cool down a turbocharger, the oil is pulling heat away from the bearings, shaft, etc. at idle faster than the exhaust can heat the turbocharger fan, shaft, etc.
Your friend with the Mercedes is fortunate. I spoke with a service person at a local Subaru dealer and he stated that cool down is not a mandatory item. He did state that cool down is better for the turbo in the long run, be it a Subaru, Audi, or a Jeep CRD. The CRD times seem long, but VM Motori has been building diesels since 1947 and they have a better understanding of what is better for a turbocharger than you or I do or ever will.
I suggest you call and ask not only your dealer, but some independent shops. See what they say. I am sure many of them will confirm what the guy at the Subaru dealer said.
Slideshow of interesting findings
Picture 1: Pool of dried oil underneath the hose/fitting.
Picture 2: A result from wiping my finger underneath the hose/fitting.
Picture 3: " "
Picture 4: The hose to the left of the fuel filter has oily soot around the tip of the hose and around the hose clamp.
Picture 5: " "
Picture 6: Another pool of dried oil
Picture 7: " "
We don't get the vehicles you have in Europe. We haven't started to pay $5.00 per gallon yet. Big is perceived as better here, tougher etc.
Can I assume you bought your CRD for the same reasons that we bought ours.
A Dodge Cummins 2500 is what I thought I wanted (and maybe I do). But why drive a big pickup all the time who's bed can only hold so much and then you need a trailer anyway. The near future models may bring some techological gains. A future purchase could give us what we want more of, now that we have driven a CRD.
The CRD is built like you posted-look underneath, check out the weight for its' size and its' ability to pass an obstacle. Real 4wd. Real power. Several posters have talked about their boats, trailers, etc.
I'm thinking of that next purchase and I am asking DC to get their act together.
The CRD is what it is and we all know how great that can feel. I have no idea what I would replace the CRD with. McPhearson strut SUV's - no. Lexus/Toyota Land Cruisers-no. The CRD does what I need and gives that warm feeling inside until I read that one of us has a glitch. Then the glitch goes away and the warm feeling is back.
Thank you for helping this side of the big pond. I will continue to enjoy your posts from the Alps? and pictures like the one you posted.
If I am on a road trip I usually don't shut the engine off until the end of day.
Around town I am not spooling up the turbo enough to worry about it.
I appreciate all the good posts. Hopefully I will get a good choice for my next car.
My drive to work is about 3 minutes to get to the freeway around 50 mph and then I am on the freeway for 14 miles traveling 65 to 75 mph. When I get off the freeway it is about 3 miles from there at 35 mph. After this type of drive, how long should I leave it idle? My temperature gauge has never went over the halfway mark. But am I to understand that the gauge is not exactly the way to tell that the turbo has cooled? I have read the part in the manual with the "Turbocharger 'Cool Down' Chart" and am still confused as to how you know when the turbocharger temperature is cool.
Also, how much is a normal oil change for the diesel? My dealership is offering for $400 a prepaid plan that has 12 oil changes and with every other change they rotate the tires. They also give 2 sets of wiper blades, as far as I know with no expiration date. That comes out to about $33 for an oil change. Is that a good deal? Is it better warranty-wise to have this type of stuff done at the dealer?
I am sure I will have more questions. I absolutely love driving my Jeep, I went from a Honda Accord to the Jeep and it is a blast. I am hoping and praying I don't have problems with it. I checked the door and it was made 5/05, does that make a difference?
Sorry if I sound like a girl too much, but I am new to the diesel thing.
Thanks for any help!! :
The dealer is very cooperative in wanting to keep me happy, and has offered to take the CRD back and let me have a different Liberty that is not a CRD, but I will have to settle for a one that lists 5-6 thousand dollars less. Talk about depreciation, the vehicle is worth 25 percent less than when I drove it out less than three months ago. Upon closer analysis, this is actually a much better deal than if I negotiated an exchange through the Lemon Law. This has been a real education. Hopefully this time they fix it and the CRD runs as advertised.
Yes, I bought the Liberty CRD for pleasure and the possibility to drive safely along all kinds of roads and trails one can see on a detailed road map whenever I wish.
A future purchase could give us what we want more of, now that we have driven a CRD.
I think we are a bit 'spoiled' to expect something better. I have the feeling of being in a dead end street for choosing an equivalent truck. This one handles like a toy everywhere and can park in a tiny spot left by a VW Golf. Very few civilised trucks have their wheels so far apart considering the overall length.
I've not yet seen posts from people going in the bush or places where you need to crawl, creep and pray nobody is coming in front of you. This is really when you feel the power of the diesel engine, when you can't turn back and your 4 tires are just at the limit of ripping. BFG T/As then become the natural choice...
"Unlike a gas powered car this is not particularly dangerous since diesel fuel is much less explosive."
I also sometimes fuel up (rarely and illegally) with the engine running at truck stops so the turbo can continue to cool. But you should be aware that diesel can be much more explosive than gasoline in the tank.
True, diesel is much less volatile than gasoline. Outside of the tank diesel is difficult to light with a match while gasoline which is very volatile flames easily. It turns out that inside of a partially full tank diesel fumes can mix with air in about the right proportion to create an explosive mixture. Gasoline on the other hand is so volatile inside of a tank that the mixture is generally too rich to be explosive (not like in the movies).
I believed what you said about the safety of diesel and gasoline to be correct most of my adult life. I only recently found out that diesel can be very explosive in a tank that is partially full. So, when I fuel up with the engine running I first touch metal on the pump handle assembly with one hand and touch the alloy wheel with the other to discharge static electricity.
2. Turbo cool down. I follow the book. My commute is almost identical to yours. Out of habit I idle for 15-30 seconds. After intensive highway driving I let it go a couple of minutes, usually in the driveway at the house.
3. The temperature gauge is the coolant temp and not the turbo temp.
4. I got my oil changed with Mobil One 0-50 weight synthetic (specified in the owners manual) and the oil change was $75. I get all work done on vehicles still under warranty at the dealership which is true for CRD and also my VW GTI. Question the dealership on making sure they don't want to switch you to a different cheaper oil. (They offered me a non synthetic API Certified Oil that was rated for Diesel but I opted to keep with the expensive synthetic oil--mostly to protect the turbo since sythetic oil is much more resisitant to breakdown at high temperatures) Just check what you are buying with that plan and make sure they will actually do 12 oil changes and not shirk back to what is specified in the manual...6,200 mile intervals for rough service.
5. You don't sound like a girl too much, most people are new to this diesel thing because we don't have many.
The oil change deal sounds great. Just remember that your dealer is a business and likely has business-like motives to offer it. Trust, but verify; is a good philosophy on this.
I'd also add that we need more "girls" and fewer chicken-littles in this forum. Your post is what I hope it has more of: People asking for, and providing, useful advice.
Unfortunate persons who are having actual problems with their CRDs need to be calling Daimler-Chrysler weekly, daily, twice-daily, or hourly- if that's what it takes- to get the needed service bulletins generated for our dealerships to do warranty work off of. This is true ESPECIALLY if their problem is difficult to be replicated reliably upon demand, or delivery, to a dealership. Otherwise, the dealership service treadmills will prevail. 1-800-925-5337 (-JEEP). Dealerships can do very nice work, but they are not the best diagnosicians.
ALL WITH ENGINE OVERHEATING ISSUES PLEASE CALL !
Some synthetic oils have a natural/built in viscosity range by design that does not require the addition of additives to enhance the viscosity range. Other synthetic require the addition of additives to enhance the viscosity range. It is the addition of these additives that disturbs me. They are generally not synthetic and thus cannot tolerate the pounding and heat that the synthetic base stock can. These additive will break down and will sludge up the engine. I know of at least two oils that do not use these viscosity enhancing additives, Red Line and Amsoil. Both have 5W-40 oils that meet or exceed the specs that DC calls for in the CRD.
As to a 50 weight oil, that is generally reserved for air-cooled engines such as in Porsche. The possible bad side effect of using a 50 weight oil is blowing a seal.
Our CRD has been out of service for 23 days and counting. At first the dealer denied an error code because it is not a Liberty diesel code. Thanks to this forum I knew to have pictures of the dash to show to the service manager. Chrysler has since denied the existence of the code, but the dealership was able to say sorry but we have pictures.
Our first "actual" problem was occasional surging between 50 and 60 MPH at 2k miles. That problem was resolved with a computer “reflash”.
After that we thought our CRD was indestructible since it acted perfect. However, at 9k miles the engine coolant began overheating, the brakes were dragging and the previously mentioned phantom code could be retrieved in the odometer display. I may not be Chicken Little but for me the sky is "actually" falling.
It was sad when you first reported problems. There aren't that many CRD's out there and maybe DC was premature. My dealership had one, we bought it. He got three more, and still has them, if anybody wants one. Are people afraid DC pulled a GM in this SUV attempt for diesels. I wasn't worried because I remember ("remember" that's a dangerous thing for me) DC stepping up to the plate with the 4.0L piston problems. Did GM satisfy customers with 5.3 piston issues-I don't know.
I thought the heating was the fan clutch. I thought the brake drag was, as caribou1 reported, the check valve in the booster. (My service manager stated that the check valve issue would not be a new problem to DC)
Since the heat issue was resolved, I had the dealership install the 3 part skid plates while the CRD was in the shop to order parts to turn my CRD from 2wd back to 4wd.
4wd used 3 times. A post led me back to jeep.com where it is recommended we drive in 4wd full time to reduce wear. Am I wrong to be using 2wd as the default?
I need help now. The third skid plate was not for the transmission pan/oil filter but was the engine plate that we get standard with the CRD and was returned to DC.
I thought I read somewhere about a place that is/would fabricate the skid plate to protect the trans pan and oil filter. Any help?
While in the shop I got the PCM update. Now I know why you may not have understood my first post long ago. My CRD would hesitate then throw you back in the seat like a big boy dodge cummins. Civilized now.
Thanks guys caribou1, 4kster, winter2, vtdog, anomius, n3qik
Is it illegal under federal or specific state law to fuel a diesel with the motor running? I always idle during fill ups.
Diesels and explosion. When a relative-in-law saw our CRD he passed along this story of his experience as a tanker driver fueling up underground gas tanks at a gas station. It was very calm(an inversion?), his tanker truck's diesel was idling. Gas fumes were hanging and got sucked up into the diesels' intake and produced a runaway, rods thrown everywhere.
My wife has a Land Rover but wants a newer fuel efficient SUV. We don't have 50K for a Tourig. Is the Jeep CRD junk? Or just a typical Jeep product?
They are made by VM Motori in Cento, Italy.
tidester, host
> but was the engine plate that we get standard with the CRD and was returned
> to DC. I thought I read somewhere about a place that is/would fabricate the
> skid plate to protect the trans pan and oil filter. Any help?
Ha! This happened with my first attempt to buy the skid-plate package, too. The one marked "transmission" was the same front plate that already came on the vehicle. The local dealer was able to obtain the correct part number and re-order for me, and I now have the plate that covers the oil pan and filter and extends back to the transfer case (though I will say that its coverage of the oil filter could be a lot better).
Anyway, I'll look around here for the receipt. If I find it, I'll post the corrected part number.
- What cured your overheating problem? Was it just the PCM sending wrong information to the temperature gauge?
- Was there an additional problem with the brakes or again the PCM calling for help from the ABS system?
A few french posts mention the PCM going 'wild' on the newer trucks but their diagnostic seems fuzzy to me. They say nothing about brakes, loose hose clamps and the trucks come from the same assembly line. Perhaps the PCM gets sea-sick coming over here :sick:
I have had my CRD back to the dealer once to have the PCM re-flashed with updated software. Since then everything has been just fine. I have a vibration from the exhaust system in the back which I will take care of myself this weekend. I have been looking at the posts that have pictures associated with them. I have started looking at the position of clamps and looking at items that abut each other. I have turned a few clamps already and will adjust more this weekend. Items that abut each other will be re-positioned if possible or have padding of some sort put between them if feasible. I will also check every clamp that is adjustable to make sure it is snug. I check clamps monthly as part of my PM.
As to bad fuel being the biggest culprit in diesel engine failure or poor performance, I agree wholeheartedly. Do not buy on price. I have posted this previously and will repeat what I have said. Talk to people who own diesel powered pickups or big rigs. Ask them where they get their fuel locally. If they consistently name one place go there. If you have a very busy truckstop nearby, purchase your fuel there.
just a note that even though this engine is new to us ,here in North America ,it isn't really new ,it has been in production in europe for 10 years,we just got the latest version.
They have been putting them in the Cherrokee,GrCherrokee's,and now the Liberties
for quite awhile now over seas.
And it is quite possible you 'll be seeing a Chrysler minivan R/T ,and the new Caliber,with this option as well.I am hearing alot of rumours lately.Which I think it is about time.
Especially because of Fuel prices being as high as they are,I think this will keep us competitive.
24 days and counting.
As I understand it, there is a possibility that the domestic Grand Cherokee will be getting a six cylinder diesel. It is a V-6. I have read that engine has 3.0L in displacement, 200 HP and 360 ft-lbs of torque. With numbers like that, why buy a hemi?
I've bugged parts departments since February when we bought ours.
Your part sounds like an extra long front skid plate.
I want the trans pan/oil filter protected. But I would gladly get the number and pay a restocking fee if it doesn't give the protection I believe we need.
Awhile back, my wife's uncle wanted to go his small mesa, way west of FT. Worth, TX. It was cut by a Caterpiller for a gas line to the well on top. The journey up was getting rocky as well as rutted from washouts. Backing down the path was not a trail rated but a most embarrassing experience.
I didn't want to deter cooling of the aluminum cast oil pan and the hanging down oil filter. Maybe that's why DC doesn't mimic the long gasser skidplate from the third member back to the cross brace for the CRD.
My brake problem was a known liberty problem. The back pads were not wearing in and then around 2k miles a very loud grinding noise would show up on first backup. It also did it after stopped at a rodeo for a couple of hours to see my wife's nephews ride the broncs. It was so loud people looked from all over and even bothered horses tied up to trailers behind big trucks with their diesels running.
Maybe we should share VIN's as well as build dates. We bought ours on Valentine's Day and the CRD had been on the showroom floor for over a week.
Three prior test drives, GM, SM, and one lady potential customer.
This is the first new jeep we had ever driven. I drove a jeep in nam somtimes as well as 3/4 and 2 1/2 trucks. I didn't know the CRD was supposed to drive as nice as it does now. Milleage is up. I got 24mpg driving mixed highway, stop and go, and idling. Before the reflash, if I didn't restrain my tired old foot to keep it off the pedal the engine would rev like crazy, shoot out of the hole smoking the tires.
Is this Provent really necessary? Will DC improve that little canister? Will DC give us that new egr?
My dealer will not let me Provent. They only go by DC's book. Maybe time to find a friendlier, closer, dealer. There are several but with rate times being cut even by DC, good mechanics are hard to find. I trust the ones I talked to at the dealer but I've noticed and sensed some strong emotions under their skin lately plus their eye contact and facial expressions.. Some pressure is up. I hope they don't leave. I use to have some fords and followed that mechanics information place on the internet that even helped expose the greenleaf? affair.
I would recommend putting in 4WD every once in a while to get the lubrication going.
I believe it is: TSB 18-018-05
Our other vehicle is a '04 Mailbu LT that has been and is wonderful. MyGM web site says our VIN has a PCM reflash available also. I don't know why, it's running great but if it can do what this DC reflash did then I need to find a service advisor.
mdamick, do you use a diesel additive?
I don't know what the fade off idle is. If you have a few miles on yours without additives, have tightened all your clamps, and the air cleaner is okay, and have no mechanical issues, then I'm at a loss to help except to try a full bottle of redline.
Based on winter2's strong belief in red line catalyst, I withheld diesel kleen from some fillups and was going to try a full bottle of diesel catalyst again but the reflash happened. I went to the red line site and read that I believe some maintenance dose can be used after a clean up dose but full protection requires more than that.
I'm hoping that diesel kleen and redline can help clean the egr. Redline states high temperature cleaners but never states that is survives combustion to clean egr and/or the catalytic converter.
I have only checked a few clamps and have found them to be snug. Most of the clamps I have messed with were to re-position them for either easier access/maintenance or to keep them from rubbing against a line or wire.
I ran my CRD without any additive for the first 700 miles after which I started using the RedLine product. Within fifty miles of starting the additive, the engine vibrated less, was quieter, and most notably starts faster. Also, the amount of smoke under load (acceleration) which was very little to begin with, has lessened even more. Also, the funky odor from the exhaust is less than before I started with the RedLine product. I can recall having this product recommended to me by a local MB dealer when I had my first diesel way back in the early 1980's. I did not try it then however.
Where do you get your fuel? What brand is it? What is the cetane rating? It should be marked on the pump. I generally use Shell because the cetane is 45. With a little Diesel Fuel Catalyst added, about six ounces per fill, it is really nice. Performance is quite brisk with no stuttering, unevenness during acceleration, in fact no problems whatsoever.
I am going to locate the EGR this weekend and make sure the wiring to it is in good order and tightly connected. If there any hoses going to it I will make sure they are in good shape too and make it a point to check the routing of these hoses..
The only jerking I can think of may come from the transmission. If you have had the TSB applied and it is still jerky, I suggest this. In the morning, after you start it, let the engine idle for about thirty seconds in park. This refills the torque converter which happens to drain into the body of the transmission while sitting overnight. Drive gently for the first mile or so. I have found this to be quite helpful. A light foot on the gas helps too. This is the same trans they stick in the full-size Dodge trucks. I have spoken to a few Dodge dealers and doing what I just suggested comes as a recommendation from their mechanics. It does work.
Hope I was able to help. Have a great weekend!
The problem is only when the engine is not fully warmed up. It acts like a dead spot on the accelerator, like a carburetor engine with a defective accelerator pump.
It is not a jerk like the transmission is acting up. You can here and feel the engine stop running for a split second. I think it is a software issue and will have to go back & have the dealer contact DC some more & come up with a fix.