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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    2004 Malibu - first visit - reflash - drives like a luxury car.
    2005 CRD - another reflash-forty five minutes worth.
    Getting a new intercooler hose tomorrow.
    Thanks to posters here and elsewhere for the heads up. Winter2, sorry you didn't catch yours in time.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Sorry, Nasagal, my ridiculous response to your post was related to your ridiculous statement: “so when does the thing come flying apart through the floor board?” You will hear quit a racket well before that happens.

    Okay, vibration 101:

    Where do you feel the vibration? If you feel the vibration in the steering wheel the vibration is in the front end. If the vibration is felt in the seats and or the floor it is likely in the rear.

    When you say the vibration goes away when you slow down the question is how slow? Drive shaft vibration is a much higher frequency vibration than tire and wheel vibration since the drive shaft turns 3.73 times as fast as the axles. You would still feel the vibration of a drive shaft all the way down to 30 or 40 miles per hour, maybe even slower. I understood you to say the vibration went away immediately when you went to neutral. Apparently that is not so.

    The only thing in a transmission that is big enough to shake a vehicle without making a lot of noise is the torque converter and that rotates pretty much at engine speed when you rev in neutral. Is there any noise with the vibration? The weight at the front of the rear driveshaft is heavy enough to vibrate a vehicle but it would have to be loose enough to rattle or knock.

    Loose wheel lug nuts can cause a vibration that tends to turn into a crunch, clunk and grind as you slow down. This is not likely but easy to check.

    Damaged or defective axle shaft bearings can be worse under power but tend to make noise that you can hear where it’s coming from.

    A loose pinion gear nut can cause run out on the drive shaft that is worse under power but the dealer would have found that when changing the driveshaft if indeed that is what was done.

    The fact that you drove another one and it did the same led me to think it was 4 cylinder diesel growl but that absolutely goes away when you switch off overdrive.

    Hopefully it is something simple. Vibrations can be really annoying.
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    I paid about that $25.2k for Limited w/"G" package and tow pack.
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    I put in one of them pt#33-2233. I got a 28.5 mpg on the trip home with it (down Kings Mountain on I-85). (maybe 0.5 mpg improvement, maybe not)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I'm using the same filter (33-2233). I would call it a 'maybe' filter because beyond it's high price over here I cannot see a repeatable difference. I have the tendency to get less mileage with it :confuse:
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    Winter2, I think I've got this too. (2006, about 2100 miles)
    I cranked her yesterday in my garage yesterday morning and she smoked up the whole place. I drove it to work and back. Seems like a blast of smoke after it has sit for a while.
    She's going in this morning. Any specific advice for the shop?
    Caribou1 are you still on?
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    What does the smoke smell like?
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    brown :)
    like a big hit of fuel went through the engine. (or like a shot of oil went through?) Like on my old diesel Cadi when I'd hold the throttle down to make it smoke on purpose.
    not steam, not coolant.
    I'll go back in the garage with an open nose :)
    thanks!
  • whitgallmanwhitgallman Member Posts: 121
    no significant smoke this AM. Will continue to monitor.
    THANKS!! Viva L'France (or is that Le'France?)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    You may have had a missfire in one of the cylinders. When this is the case it leaves no trace and when the catalyser will be warm enough it will finish the combustion of your leftovers ;)
    By the way, that ship will be cut into small pieces somewhere in asia. Let's hope they make good use of the metal. I came to Europe on that ship :shades:
  • lightnin3lightnin3 Member Posts: 153
    Hi Jorjen,
    About the Wrangler HP.'s ...
    I would make a deal with the dealer to trade the rims and tires for 16 inch chrome sport rims,which are just as nice and more practical.
    I would suggest changing to 235 70 16 Michelins LTX M/S,or a good all terrain tire like B.F.goodrich all terrain T/A KO ,
    instead of those tires.Although they perform well they are an odd size and you would have to pay a premium of $50 to $100 more comparably to a 16 inch tire that is more common and more variety of brands at that size to choose from.
    The actual diameter of the tire isn't larger so you wouldn't benefit with mileage,going to that size.

    Unless you like larger rims.If you ever had to replace those rims ,they too ,are rare and are very expensive.
    Speak Soon..
    Lightnin3...
  • unclebubbaunclebubba Member Posts: 80
    Monday January 23rd, my tech Alvin (notice we are on a first name basis, this is probably not good!) at the dealer, replaced my 2nd EGR with a 3rd re-designed/engineered EGR. Alvin had me come into the service bay (that was a first! Especially with all the no customers beyond this point signs!) and showed me exactly where the EGR was located and gave me the old EGR to inspect.
    After installing the "new improved EGR" he took it for the obligatory test drive. When he returned, I asked how it went, he responded "not so good"! :sick:
    Yesterday Alvin, reportedly spent much time on line and the phone with STAR. The outcome was that a part, the diesel counter part of a throttle body on a gasser, was ordered. Bad news is, it was ordered from the international parts center in God only knows where. I still have faith that Daimler Chrysler will get it right. On a lighter note, prior to sending the CRD to service, I went from home to a work assignment 188 miles away and got there on a quarter of a tank. The fuel economy has not suffered for the EGR problems and the thing still works well with a K&N filter! Go figure! :surprise:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    That kind of smoke is not good. A little bit of smoke at start up is normal. I get a tiny puff of smoke with the first start of the day and my CRD has always done that. My old Isuzu diesel from the early 80's did the same.

    You may have a bad glow plug that is not helping light off the fuel when cold and once the engine warms up the smoke disappears. Caribou's response is also appropriate. A bad injector would cause a miss, but you did not mention that in your post.

    Never had that problem with either of my diesels. :confuse:
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    CRD does not use a throttle body but does use a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. The EGR issue is fuel related.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The fuel economy has not suffered for the EGR problems and the thing still works well with a K&N filter! Go figure!

    I would worry that DCC would blame the problem on the K&N filter and try to void the warranty. I was not thrilled with the K&N I had installed on my Suburban. Never again for me.
  • unclebubbaunclebubba Member Posts: 80
    I have used the renewable fabric fitlers (K&N is what I use) exclusively for the past 1999 on all of my vehicles and I am convinced of their value. DCC has not had an issue with the use of the renewable fabric oiled filters historically, or currently, to my limited knowledge.

    I have seen significant gain in power on my FIPK equipped '02'Liberty with V-6 and no drops (or gains!) in mpg. But once installed, all you do is clean it, re-oil it and go! It's a personal thing and all of our reality is 99% how we percieve of things. :)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I had in mind an cold start when you forget you have glow plugs. It happened to me recently, so 'Please don't disturb the driver' ladies.......
  • unclebubbaunclebubba Member Posts: 80
    Winter,
    I understand that the CRD does not use a throttle body, however, the service writer used this terminology to give me an idea of the kind of function of the part. Most folks, myself included, know what a throtle body is and a general idea where it's located on a car. She was trying to keep it simple for my very simple mind. Also, I concur with the fuel quality (more like lack of quality) and the EGR problems. The re-designed/engineered EGR will hopefully resolve some of the problems. :) Cheers!!
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Granted a K&N filter does wonders on gasoline engines.
    The CRD breathes differently and local 'diesel automobile tuning' discussions have more cons than pros. I make a rotation between the K&N, the original and the Mann filter every month.
    I've been playing with this K&N for a year now, I know I have one but can never tell if it's in the plastic pouch or under the hood... :(
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    A re-design may allow the EGR to live in the rotten environment caused by the high sulfur content of domestic diesel. Also, the low cetane of domestic #2 yields more junk that can negatively impact on that component as well as others downstream.

    When ULSD is finally in place, I feel that EGR problems will be a thing of the past. I hope that the refiners improve/increase the cetane of #2. That would be helpful too.
  • unclebubbaunclebubba Member Posts: 80
    Well for me, the change over can't happen too soon!! I look forward to a day when diesel passenger cars are more common and affordable. I was really surprised to read that the govt. considers diesel an "alternative fuel"? If this country would put more into developing alternative re-newable resource fuels, we would be so much better off. Remember in the late 70's and early 80's when "gasahol" was more common? It's still readily available in the upper plains states and the Dakota's and it produced no problem in my Honda GL 1500 when I rode to a family re-union out there. Oh well, let me stop rambling. Cheers!! :D
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Oil Filter Testing on a Duramax
    Draw your own conclusion.

    What I have personnally seen with aftermarket oiled filters used on TDI is that the amount of silicon present in engine oil was higher with an oiled filter than without.
    No increase in power, this was verified on dyno. Vehicle was stock, no performance modifications
    No increase in mpg when using panel style K&N on my TDI. This same finding has been repeated with other TDI owners using panel and cone type filters.
    I did not experience a MAF failure. Others have blamed MAF failures on oiled filters. I have seen no definitive proof to confirm or refute the relationship between MAF failures and aftermarket filters.

    What I do know is that I am unwilling to add contaminants to my oil with the result being no increase in power, no increase in mpg, only to save a small amount of money over the life of my vehicle by re-using the filter.

    I will be using a WIX filter.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    latest thing on the market is nanofiber looks good used in iraq for dust storms made by donaldson
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Are you looking for a drop in replacement donaldson filter or a cold air set-up?
    Lub. Spec. (an amsoil dlr who's working on the modified oil drain for "oldnavy" is willing to help on this) a local amsoil dlr also is eager for the donaldson business.
    Did not get my new intercooler hose-wrong hose ordered. With the airbox setup, there is a fix needed to pull mine closer to the front and keep the hard fresh air inlet tube from scrubbing a ring shaped hole into the intercooler hose.
    winter2 talked about a new wider clamp, my original clamps are made by Mercedes Benz and are considered good.
    I did notice that my turbo bearing oil return line is starting to weep at the block. Is this another result of my using 0w40 mobil 1.
  • biobobbiobob Member Posts: 11
    Here is an interesting announcement from the National Biodiesel Board: DaimlerChrysler approves B20 for 2007 Dodge Ram Pickups & continues support of B5 for the Jeep Liberty CRD. Here is a link to the press release: http://biodiesel.grassroots.com/Chrysler_B20_2007DodgeRam/?lk=5045940-5045940-0-- 20013-YWpmeYwZjiC6LMD576oV6T5NTdXuvn5J
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I will have to look at the turbo oil return line on my CRD. I got rid of Mobil 0W-40 several thousand miles ago and am using Amsoil 5W-40.

    I will look at the new intercooler that was installed and see if they re-routed it.

    The article about the air filter tests raised an eyebrow at this end. I am going to re-consider my purchase of a K&N air filter for the CRD. I am going to speak with my local Amsoil person and see what is available for the CRD air filter wise. I know that there are oil filters from Donaldson that are available for the CRD.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    sorry but the nanofifber filter is not available from amsoil yet am waiting to.i am running amsoil 5-40 and ran the first change ten thousand miles did not use a drop looked pretty dark i have ran amsoil for twenty fives years at ten thousand mile intervals no problems in gas engines not diesel this is my first diesel automobile
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I've seen a cross-sectioned demo of the "Desert Storm" filter developed for the newer Ford Power Stroke diesel. It's huge and it's looks pretty awesome. It holds so much filtered material that there is no specified change interval. An airflow sensor alerts the driver when it's time to change the filter.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I'm using the WIX air filter, Moparbad. The seal is a little thicker than the stock so it fits a little tighter and certainly will not leak. It's readily available, reasonably good quality and not too expensive.
  • crd4me2crd4me2 Member Posts: 26
    I'm getting closer to becoming a new Libby owner! After 16 weeks of waiting for mine to start down the line, the dealer called today to say it's finally entered 'build' status. And now I have a VIN! So it seems the lines putting out CRD's now and hopefully all of us waiting will get ours in the next couple weeks. Wish the plant had web cams so I could watch it in progress.
    I'm planning on getting new 245/75 r16 TA/KO tires that very day, but I'll let jorjen and all know what type comes on it. Dealer said he'd recal the speedo no charge for my patience in waiting. Trying to think of what else I could negiotate from dealer - too far to go for free oil changes.

    Thanks Lightnin3 for the info on expediting shipment. I may try that too, as I have no ship date estimate yet. I had emailed DC about the build hold up Mon., but no response yet - except the news from the dealer. Knowing it's finally in build, I can wait another couple weeks I guess.

    I look forward to participating more on the forum with news of how mine breaks in. I appreciate all the readings and info this forum has to offer!
  • scogginsjescogginsje Member Posts: 13
    Bought an 06 CRD yesterday.
    Will be towing it behind a motor coach. Does the mileage continue to add up on the odometer when towing 4 down?
    I have been receiving conflicting info on this one.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • scogginsjescogginsje Member Posts: 13
    What is the collective take on extended warranties for the CRD. Local dealer offered a 7/70000 for around $2100.

    Regards,
    Jim
  • vtdogvtdog Member Posts: 163
    I can't tell you what to do about the ext'd warranty. I have had no problems, except EGR in 16k miles and I expect that the diesel will be more rugged over the long term than many here believe and continue to whine about.

    As for the warranty cost: you MUST negotiate the price. When I bought my CRD last March, they offered the warranty to me at about $ 1,500 and said they NEVER deal on that price and that they were doing me a "favor" by not charging the diesel premium. When I told them I was not interested in that price, and got up to walk out, they all of a sudden changed their mind and offered the warranty at 1/3 off. At the end of the deal, I got the extended warranty for free and got them to give me free oil changes for life (2 per year). So, if you feel you need the warranty, get it, but do not pay $ 2,100. That is an outrageous price. You could go to various private insurers and do much better, I'm sure.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    At my lunch break yesterday, I got underneath my CRD to look at the turbo return line. At the place it plugs into the block there was a little bit of oil seepage at the connection point. On the bottom of the cold side of the turbo near the return line outlet, was a drop of oil too. I am not sure if these are remnants of the problem I had recently. The service writer did state that there was "oil all over the place". The return line itself was clean with not film on it.

    I did wipe everything down as best I could and will watch these two areas to see if the oil seepage returns.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I made local searches about oil leaks on turbos. Just consider millions of turbos have been manufactured and running nicely over the past 20 years.
    People never reported oil leaks on turbo bearings before and we were all using ~15W40 grade oil if not SAE-HD40!
    Several people tend to say nowdays that using 0W-40 and 5W-40 oils make turbo bearings swet. I believe this is possible when the engine is not yet warm enough because the oil pressure is there all the time. :blush:
    If this is the case, I'm turning back 180 degrees :shades:
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    winter2, you were so right about the new design hose and clamps. Now have ~1/8" clearance w/o engine running between hoses.

    The Mechanic, with my greatest respect, (& thanks to all at Grubbs Jeep in Bedford, TX - Gerry, Corey, and the "Tech") did seemed amazed at the amount of oil in the intercooler system and even the puddle at the turbo.

    The oil leak at the block was seen and a fix is on hold for now. There appears to be a smooth hole drilled into the block with a rubber washer the only engineering to keep the oil in the block-kinda like the rubber washer protecting chrysler and mb transmissions at the trans dip stick entry-that fix is the grey silicon sealant we use on the diff cover. I said jb weld it like I did with my ford 351w dip stick tube hole.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Was anybody contacted by an "attorney" about crd dissatisfied owners geting redress not by lemon laws but by basic business law of merchantability(?) where a product from a merchant isn't a merchantability product and the fix is putting everybody back to the point of sale?
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I am aware that synthetic oils can find ways past seals that regular mineral oils cannot. I find it hard to believe that there is any seepage or sweating. This is not my first turbo and I used synthetic 10W-30. Never leaked, seeped or sweat any oil. I never lost a turbo either, even though this is my second one.

    I think that what I found was the result of the spillage of oil from the ruptured intercooler hose. This is left over oil that was not cleaned off. I will still keep an eye on things for a week or two just to make sure.

    My concern is with the wide viscosity range of the oil we need to use. Mobil adds viscosity index improves in a significant amount that are subject to break down over the long term. The breakdown products start coating things with a varnish that can be troublesome over the long run. I use Amsoil because their oil has little or none of this substance and the TBN is higher too.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I have not seen anything like that at all. Looks like some lawyer is "ambulance chasing".
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Considering how much oil was found in both of our cases makes me wonder if the 0W-40 or 5W-40 is too light. I am now thinking about using a synthetic 15W-40 when I change oil in early May.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Is your new intercooler hose keeping more oil inside of it than the old design? Yes, all intercooler hoses make some mess. Sure looks good - the way it should've been.

    The weepage was starting to leave a trail down the side of the block. Keep watching, rubber and plastic are temporary, water was getting into dc and mb transmissions with that rubber washer, we'll probably get the same treatment-some more liquid plastic vs a threaded connector.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Teflon tape or something like it is a great seal for threaded connections.

    The side of the block is a little oily, probably from the rupture. I may try to clean it this weekend.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    Now you tell me - just bought 5w40 and the asst store manager suggested royal purple - I'm sure you can provide some help with amsoil vs royal purple.
    I think a statement was made and later seconded that the moving vanes inside the turbo need oil vapors from the intercooler for their lubrication-true? We need some but not a liquid flow.
  • tired_old_davetired_old_dave Member Posts: 710
    It's not threaded. It should've been.
    Teflon tape is another story. Is going away. It degrades over time. My last plumbing repair for the non sweat ftgs was old fashioned pipe dope.
    It has been fun this morning-like we have our own site.
    Dad was a machinist and I guess I'm second generation with a european family tree. I say that based on one of your early posts.
    Take care - have to punch the clock.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    From what I have heard, Royal Purple is decent stuff. I will try to find some information on both.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I tried to spot oil under the engine and there is nothing. If my intercooler hose gets very oily I just wipe it clean. After all, my oil level was only down by ~1/2 a quart after 25,000 Km. The itchy bit is that I don't know if this happened recently due to cold winter weather or was a steady leak. The waste oil came out fluid like water when I changed it. It took me only 20 seconds to refill 2 old oil bottles before disposal.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    You can get the dealer to write you a 3 year interest free, 5 year 100,000 mile $ 0 ded. for $1540. The big thing why they don't want to tell you because the dealer does not get his money until the loan is paid in full! The dealer will do it IF he wants your business. I have done this three times in the last year! Good luck.

    Farout
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The oil is very thin, viscosity wise, almost like water. Scary to me too.

    The consumption of ~1/2 quart was probably normal usage.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpmoa.html

    http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/afl.aspx

    http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx

    Here are the two links to each of the oils in question. I did not see 5W-40 listed fro Royal Purple.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Someone recently said there was a fuel heater in the CRD. I called two authorities and THE CRD DOES NOT HAVE A FUEL HEATER. I am new to the world of diesels so the best way I know to find stuff out is to call the either Customer information line or the biggest dealer which sells the most CRD's , which is across from the Toledo Plant. Hope this helps.

    Farout
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