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Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?



  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm a FORD fan, really. I just divested myself of a damn good Honda Civic a few months ago. There are Foreign cars I like a lot, though I tend to own more Domestics admittedly, because they often are more attractive to me. But, you'll note I don't have a Taurus, though I confess to have owned some early ones.

    I am a Mazda fan also - I liked the 929 a lot, the 626 for certain features. The Miata is hot, the RX-8 is beautiful. The Millenia is nice, but a tad smallish inside. I would like to see Mazda get some serious backing from Daddy, and make a real impact.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    chat with my non-car-fan friends, I find that to them, all Japanese cars are Hondas or Toyotas, with a smaller recognition that there is a "third brand" - Nissan! :-P

    Seriously, we will pass a Pro5 on the street, and I will say "See, that's a Mazda", and they will give me a blank stare? "What is a Mazda?"

    It didn't help that the sedans had no distinctive styling features in the 90s to differentiate them from the pack of small and midsizers.

    Of course, the one significantly distinctive car they do make, the Miata, is widely recognized, even by my clueless friends! Unfortunately, they are not aware it is a Mazda...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    That is so true, Nippon....non-car-guys (people) can't tell a Park Avenue from a Colony Park can they. To them, it's blue. LOL
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    People actually talk about Toyota's? I don't think people in my agre group(I'm 24 now) actually talk about Toyota's unless maybe its the Celica. The RAv 4 I don't mind talking about. The rest of their line-up doesn't strike my interest to much.

    About Mazda's sedans I think the 93-97 626 did differentiate from the pack. The 98 626 was nice looking but it didn't really differentaiate itself from the pack. Remember the Ford tranny destroyed early to mid 90's 626's sales. The Millenia was distinctive looking but its a Mazda and not an Acura or a Lexus.

    RV banker:

    About the Tarus its not a bad car but I just don't find anything flashy about it. It lacks pizzaz in the styling department. The Altima, Passat, and 6 have pizzaz to them. Of course I liked the pre-2001 Honda Accords so I guess I am one that shouldn't talk about "pizzaz".
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    What Ford tranny did the 626 have in it?
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    That happened in the 94 model year. Ford put their tranny into the 626 4 cyl models and that tranny was a nightmare for 626 owners. Consumer reports does not reccomened a 94 626 in their best bets for used cars. The 5 speed manual tranny and 6 cyl auto trannys in 626's were reliable. I think(if I'm correct, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong) but Mazda did re-work the Ford Tranny for the 96 model year to reduce tranny failure's in the 4 cyl auto 626's. Consumer Reports lists 626's from model years 1996-2002 from average reliability to above average reliability even with the Ford Tranny. The reliability rating also includes the 5 speed manuals and 6 cyl auto tranny's as well. I'm not sure where Consumer Reports rated the 95 626's reliability at. I do believe the 95 626 with the Ford Tranny was problematic as well. The Ford Trany was also in the 94-97 Mazda MX-6 coupe. 93 626 and 93 MX-6 did not use a Ford Tranny despite being new bodystyles for the 93 model year. Lastly, Thats why I made that remark before: "Ford's reliability is not that bad but putting Ford Parts in Mazda cars is a totally different subject." To sum up the post Ford Tranny in the 94-95 626 and 94-95 MX-6 were very problematic.

    The Ford Tranny in the 626 was the same one used in the Ford Contour I think.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yeah, that makes sense then.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I wasn't talking so much about what people talk about, just what so-called "laypeople" know about cars, which aint that much. However, they do know of Toyota and can spot one, same for Honda, but are pretty clueless on other Japanese brands. Funny that Honda has more recognition despite being a much smaller company than Nissan. This is, of course, my own personal experience ONLY. No nationwide survey here! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Honda doesn't make that many models, so their sales are concentrated into recognizable product, mainly accord & civic. Also, helps them to focus their energies into quality for each model, which GM is too damn big to do.
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    Nissan is bigger than Honda? You have to explain that one to me. When I was in High School I used to talk about Honda all the time. When the new Accord came out in 1997-1998 I couldn't stop talking about it. Anyways I know Nissan is the second most profitable automaker next to Porcshe but they are bigger than Honda? I don't know about that. Nissan from what I understand as far back as the early 90's used to outsell Honda than Nissan had a string of styling duds which allowed Honda to pass Nissan in sales. What year did Honda pass Nissan in sales anyway? To me Honda is bigger than Nissan because Honda never went bankrupt and Honda is the more established brand of the 2. Its not a diss against Nissan at all. Carl Ghosn has done a good job over at Nissan and and Nissan/Infinti has the most disctinctive styled vehicles of any automaker today. Its just I would pick a Mazda 6 over a Nissan Altima or a Mazda 3 over a Nissan Sentra. The 02-03 Nissan Sentra SE-R's are pretty nice looking but I don't know how to drive a stick and the interior theme in the Sentra as Motor Trend pointed out once looks kinda dated. The interior looks nicer than a Civic but not nicer than a Protege ot the new 3. I might have picked up a 99 Nissan Altima had I not needed a car urgently 4-5 years ago. Thats when I discovered Mazda when I needed a car urgently.
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    I don't think you have to worry about quality issue's with GM anymore. They don't make them like they used to(1980's quality style) which is a good thing. The 92 Grand Am my family had was the worst car ever though. That and the old Plymouth Duster. Those 2 cars were bad. We also had a 1988 Pontiac Grand Prix(first year model) and had the engine shut on a and off at times(still a good car though.) Also had a 1987 or 1988 Buick Stylark for 3 years. No quality issue's there. Have also had a 99 Grand Prix and 02 Grand Prix: no issues there. If you want to talk to somebody abou GM and quality I'm your man too talk too. My family has also had Chevy Corsica and other domestics. I think the tiniest car I ever sat in was the late 80's/early 90's Toyota Corolla. That thing was tiny. It wasn't a bad car it just felt like you were sitting in a sub-compact car.
  • The dates as given are pretty accurate. The '94, being the first year we got this tranny - it first appeared in Europe in the '93 Ford Mondeo, which eventually mutated into the Contour/Mystique twins - was troublesome as only a 1.0 product can be. Most of the glaring design defects were fixed over the next two or three years, though it took a while for the failure rate to come down.

    The transmission in question is Ford's CD4E, which in Mazda applications is designated LA4A-EL. The only vehicles currently using it, to my knowledge, are the Escape/Tribute siblings, and it had to be substantially reworked to handle 4WD; it's not doing too badly.

    In the CR 2004 Buying Guide, which just came out, the '95 and '96 trans have dropped to below average, though it's still only the half-black dot, as opposed to the solid black dot earned by the '94 every year.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    is a full-line manufacturer, Honda isn't. Not to mention Nissan is a WAY bigger seller in the home market than Honda is. Honda is actually not such a big company, a fact that makes me fear for its independent existence every once in a while.

    I mean, look at Mazda. Small, and got swallowed up. There are only two independent Japanese manufacturers left today: Toyota and Honda. And even Mazda competes in more segments of the market than Honda does, albeit in some cases with rebadged Fords (Tribute, B-series truck).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I fully expect Toyota to buy either GM or Ford at some point.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "I fully expect Toyota to buy either GM or Ford at some point."

    Dang, that would be strange. Toyota in control of Mazda, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ford, Mercury, Volvo, Lincoln, and Land Rover. I wonder if they'd keep all of the brands? Platform sharing?

    How about Lincoln Town Car based on the LS430? What about a FWD Camry based 4 door entry level Aston Martin? A small Lincoln based on the Corolla? The possibilities are endless!!
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    that Ford owning 34% of Mazda means nothing to me unless its a rebadged Ford. Ford has owned part of Mazda since the 70's.

    I think GM is straightening itself out and it knows what it customers want now. I mean I was reading in an article today about GM's new Design Chief. I mean in the early to mid 90's GM was doing exterior designs by different comitee's. You can't do that. GM made alot error's in product decions in the 80's/early 90's. I think having Bob Lutz in there will improve things. Beyond his tenure at GM I'm not so sure what the future of GM will be. Lutz has alot of authority whenever he's at different automotive companies. I'm not the biigest GM Fan but what they are doing with Cadillac currently I have to some faith in GM.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    methinks you are overly optimistic about GM. I see they are possibly straigtening out one division, CAdillac. The rest continue to be managed from the office of monotony & mediocre.
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    is to fix Buick the way they did Cadillac which isn't impossible but I admit it will be a pretty hard task. The new design cheif for GM said he will work on fixing Buick's exterior design's. He said even the younger stylists who work at GM's styling studio's say: "I'm going to be buying a Buick". Let me put it this away: when I see Buick's exterior styling getting better in person I'll actually believe Buick is on the road to recovery.
  • yeah and the same people 2 years ago said Cadillac won't be able to turn around with new designs, yep looked like all you anti-GM fanatics were right, everyone hates theCTS and really hates the CTS-V what a piece, the Escalade was a bomb like everyone thought, the SRX well what a hunk of junk, and the XLR what bad reviews it has gotten.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    speculation in this week's AutoWeek that Ford may need to sell Volvo and Land Rover soon just to stay in the game...but of course, the hypothetical Toyota purchase of Ford would still put it in control of Aston martin and are right, that would be a strange mix.

    Toyota already runs another Japanese company - Daihatsu. I think it would do a good job with Mazda if it owned it. Similar to what Ford has already done with it, only no rebadged Toyotas sold as Mazdas! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,290
    In all reality, GM, Ford and Toyota are just too big to be buying each other. Plus, none of that would make any sense.

    If anything, I would think Honda is the most vulnerable to be bought by either GM or Ford. I doubt Honda would be of interest to Toyota because of the overlap in products and the fact that Honda doesn't have anything Toyota needs.

    Doubtful, but if Honda was bought out by GM or Ford, they could use Honda's car expertise and Honda could use GM's/Ford's truck expertise.

    Mazda is currently the shining star for Ford, currently. And that's because Ford is allowing them to "do their own thing".

    I never could understand Land Rover's place in the world given the high end SUVs currently offered by the likes of Lexus, Lincoln, Caddy and Infiniti....all of them offering better iterations of the SUV than Land Rover offers.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    just like Toyota Land Cruiser, made its rep in being one of the last REAL off-road trucks with the Disco and the Range Rover.

    Of course, both of these trucks have been super-luxed up, and in the case of the Range Rover, heavily modified to provide the fast sporty car-like ride that buyers of luxury SUVs now expect. The result is you might be in trouble taking either truck off the road nowadays, at least in stock form.

    Agree that no-one among GM, Ford, and Toyota is buying any of the others. Mazda has its brightest future in years. If Ford had to pick only one of the foreign divisions it could keep, I would think they would be smart to pick Mazda.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ford is leveraging at least 5 of their new cars off Mazda platforms in the next 4 years. The new Ford sedans will essentially be Mazda under the skin. Not a bad strategy for lots of reasons. I'm thinking Mazda has more to contribute to the success of Ford than most people give them credit for.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    better engineering!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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  • It really bums me out personally, I used to like Ford they were doing good coming out with good vehicles in the mid 90's, good trucks, taurus, contour, etc etc

    then they got that arab guy (was he libyan ?) running the company and everything went crashing down. Ford was doing good here so they thought they could waste money on extremely stupid purchases like land rover, aston martin, jaguar etc. So instead of spending money on Lincoln to make an awesome luxury division (what Cadillac is doing now) and mercury a different brand than Ford and continuing to improve the Ford models they blew all their money. Now instead of gaining market share they are loosing it rapidly and not updating products like the should. If Ford stayed on its course it would be closer to GM's market share and with GM's turnaround they could have togather fought off the japanese invasion that has occured in full force. Nope instead they blew their money on useless brands nobody cares about. Plus Ford was really making big improvements on the quality front, now they are one of the worst mfg.

    The one exception is Mazda, that turned out to be a good investment, thought it may not be different enough to not steal sales from Ford. They serve different markets really, but there is so good overlap. But they have captured the youth market good with Mazda with attractive products.

    It really is a shame what they did to Ford.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Posts: 1,007
    ... Mazda will soon take over Ford ... Mua Ha Ha hA!

    That bit of humor aside, I just wanted to point out that unless you meant the insinuation, noting the previous Ford heads country of origin would be considered a no no. But I won't be judegemental.

    I'll re-assert that I feel Ford is continually shooting itself in the foot with the whole ridiculous pressure on suppliers to drop prices on parts, and the bottom line, resulting in absolutely crappy quality pretty much across the line, and precipitating their own decline. I don't see them making any real attempt to rein in quality and take control. Sad, but true.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    since Mazda will now provide most of the engineering for the sedans for itself, Ford, and Volvo, it will probably end up being the best investment Ford ever made.

    And if you mean Jac Nasser, wasn't he Australian or something?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • he was from some other country but I'm fairly shure he had libyan

    anyway Ford's engineering in the mid 90's far surpassed Mazda if you asked me. The only car Ford had designed by mazda (is there more?) was the probe and that wasn't a very good car.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    The Probe was a Mazda? I thought the MX-6 was a Ford! At least, the V-6. And you're right, it wasn't very good.

    The Escort was basically a Protege, one of the reasons for it being one of the better cars Ford has produced in the last fifty years.

    The Ranger's perennial success is based on the foundation of its "launch years" in the 80s, when it was a rebadged Mazda.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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