Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Subaru XT Turbo Forester
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
When they designed the fly-by-wire they had to allow for system latency, electrical and mechanical and feed all that good stuff back to whichever microcontroller they're using to "close the loop" on the throttle system.
In any control system some amount of overshoot and undershoot is normal depending upon how heavily damped the system is. The trick is to get it out without making the accelerator feel sluggish (heavily damped) or hunt like crazy for an idle point (too little damping).
I would think this is a sensor / transducer issue. I'd like to think Subaru spent a lot of time tuning this aspect of the system since its so high profile. Which means they should be able to tell the dealer (who probably won't have a clue) what to fix.
Larry
Ed
I do enjoy how the turbo noise is much more prominent in the XT than the stock WRX (I never heard any of this until upgrading my exhaust pipes), yet still not obtrusive. :-)
I haven't noticed any weird throttle issues on our XT yet.. well I did at one point the other day, but chalked it up to the AT -- stomped on the gas in 4th, it thought about it for a moment then downshifted rapidfire to 3rd, then 2nd (I was really just looking for 3rd, guess I stomped too hard), I lifted throttle slightly cuz that was too much, and it immediately upshifted back to 3rd. I guess this thing loves to upshift, not so much loves to downshift, though it will downshift hardcore when it finally decides to. AT == :-P
On the upside, the rapid downshift 4->3->2 was extremely smooth, other than the rpms shooting way up, there was no harshness transmitted through the drivetrain at all!
also my 1st gear seems to do ok but when it shifts to 2nd a whole new dimension in power comes when accelerating moderately.
waaaaaa, i wanna MT. this car is too fun to drive with a AT. especially when your in manhattan and you need to hit that opening in traffic just right and need that power now.
It didn't begin with mine until maybe 1500 miles - probably about the same time I began using somewhat more than light, breakin-routine throttle. It's most pronounced when upshifting using "normal" throttle (somewhere around half throttle), upshifting at 2500-3500 RPMs. It's not noticeable with either light or very heavy throttle.
Yeah totally... I just wish it wasn't so enthusiastic about shifting OUT of 2nd so easily... and I *don't* want to 'shift' it myself either, that just irritates me. They ought to have a 'sport' mode for the tranny, much less prone to upshifts, more downshifts.
Sheesh, you AT types are getting waaay too spoiled ;-)
-Frank P.
Ken
-juice
No way.. my WRX is manual! Gimme MT anytime! But as long as I have to have an AT (*cough*wife's car), I don't want to have to shift it manually! :-)
-Frank P.
It would definitely take a major adjustment on the customer's behalf. Audi and Nissan offer them nowadays, the Justy used to.
-juice
Also, does anyone know how to change the bulb for the fog light?
thanks
To release the front headlights, you need to squeeze both sides of the rubber plug holding them. There should be markings on the plug.
If the fogs are similar to the 98s, you change them by removing the glass housing from the outside.
Ken
Distance covered was about 240 miles, got 22mpg. May not sound that great but the only time it saw the underside of 85 was stopping at toll booths.
I've got no issues with a car moving at that speed getting 22 mpg. Now, if I could only drive with a lighter foot around town and get above 18.....
Larry
Mark
Waiting for the 04 HL to hit lots is buying me some (subtle) maneuvering time ;-)...
FWIW, my future plans for XT if I were King Of Subaru
(1st 3 per SWMBO; 4th per me):
1) Enhanced cabin sound proofing (highway - high speed rough road).
2) Less harsh highway ride (high speed rough road) sans sacrificing cornering/handling.
3) Less 'tinny' sounding doors (fill 'em with foam!).
4) Sport shift (ala Tiptronic) 5speed AT.
Remember me in your Prayers to Pleides,
srp
Are '04 Highlanders not on lots yet?
Ed
srp
Won't be picking it up until tomorrow; not sure how I'm supposed to be able to sleep tonight...
srp, I hear ya - my husband is less than excited about the impending XT purchase as well (but mostly because he thinks that my MY00 Outback Sport would still serve me well for the next 10 years or so); I had a lot of convincing to do! However, I think he has come to realize that he would have to check me into a mental institution if he were to put his foot down and veto the Forester ;-)
Here's the deal -- we've got an Explorer that is due to come off it's lease next spring. The wife is looking for a slightly smaller SUV or AWD vehicle. I got her to read the C/D article on the Forester XT, so it's something she is considering. Also on the short list is the Saturn VUE (and before passing comment, I'll tell you that my daily driver is an '03 L300). For the 2004 model year, Saturn will be dropping in the 3.5L V6 from the Honda Odyssey and Pilot -- 250 HP and EPA mileage figures of 19 city, 25 highway.
So, what I'm looking for are reasons for (and against) the XT. Here's what I've come up with:
For --
fun-to-drive
price (maybe -- VUE is $27K the way we want it, probably similar for XT - we'd want the premium pkg for the leather)
Against --
premium fuel reqd (VUE will run on 87)
not as good visibility ("high-up-ed-ness" is what the wife calls it)
Haven't done any comparisons of space, insurance, ownership costs, but I've got lots of time.
Looking for feedback....
A possible "against"--and this is very subjective--I've never been crazy about the seats in the Subies I've driven (including my own), although i don't have any experience with the '04 XT.
Call me crazy, but I kinda like the way the Vue Red Line looks-at least from pics. I'm just not sure they can execute it. We pretty much know Subaru can.
I spend 2 hrs/day in the XT, probably a little more than that on weekends. So roughly 365*2 = 730 hrs/year. That's probably not that far off factoring in off days but adding in vacation trips, etc. Possibly that's even being conservative.
So $1300/730hrs = $1.78 per hour. I suspect that if I factored in the overall cost of regular fuel, insurance, excise tax, car payment, maintenance, etc. I'd probably get nauseous. Actually Edmunds already does that on one of their web pages (calculate per mile cost, not get nauseous).
So I'll look at it like all the base cost magically disappears and I'm just paying a $1.78 premium for enjoying every hour I drive my XT. I think its a bargain :<)
I've owned practical cars for 30 years. Now its time for some fun.
Larry
K
Plus, the wife just let it slip tonight how she thinks she'll be driving "our" new vehicle after a while and she'll be able to palm her Camry off on me as my daily drive! Not a chance! I let her pick her own car out last year and she insisted on the 4 cyl. Camry against my recommendations for the v-6. Now it's MY turn baby! I think she's just starting to realize how much leverage she just lost in "our" consideration of a new vehicle.
I appreciate your input.
Don
as long as all 4 tires are same size the AWD is not affected, your speedo may be off a few % points but thats not a big deal.I run 195/65-15s instead of stock 205/55-16 in winter on my Legacy and the size differences are larger than your case though my winter tires are smaller than stock.
to calculate tire size/speedo differences
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
unless your tire size is ridiculously different if you are running same wheel size (so bearing loads are similar) there should be no warranty problem
1) We have test driven a few Subarus over the years .. an Outback and a WRX. Don't specifically remember the seat comfort, though I will say that it is on the spouses list of important things. She is driving a '99 New Beetle currently, and complains about the firm seats quite frequently.
2) Visibility can be defined in a number of ways -- this I agree with. However, prior to the Explorer, we had an Expedition on lease, and when my 5'2" wife got behind the wheel, she was not to be trifled with. "Get outta my way, I'm in the biggest d*mn vehicle on the road". With the NB, she can point and squirt through traffic like a hot knife through butter. But, as pointed out in my original post, the high visibility is what she likes.
We have not driven either vehicle yet ... with the Explorer lease not coming due until next May, I'm under orders not to visit any dealerships until Feb or March at the earliest. There are certainly some aspects of the XT she likes -- it's ability to get out of its own way being one of them -- and others she doesn't -- not sure that she'll be happy with black as the only available color of leather -- but we'll give each vehicle a fair shake and take it from there.
I'll continue to watch this list (and the VUE list, for that matter) to see what others have to say.
Not to start a flame war, but with an attitude like that, I wonder why so many people don't like SUV drivers? Or maybe I do....
Larry
Jack - chills me to the bone is more like it.... I guess more than usual because I had a run in (almost) with a petite woman in an Excursion last week. Its still very fresh in my mind.
Thanks
Larry
She actually accuses me of driving too aggressively. It's probably because I grew up and learned to drive in and around LA.
Also, did anybody focus on point #1? She drives a New Beetle to and from work each day; our Explorer is driven, occasionally, by our teenaged son.
She drives a road that has seen in the neighborhood of 6 fatalities in the past 18 months (2 of them being a mother and daughter who were hit head-on in their Suburban by a drunk in a Dodge Ram pickup; another child survived). I pray for her safety every day, both summer and winter. We live in a semi-rural area where many folks drive Yukons/Suburbans/Expeditions/large pickup trucks.
We happen to like SUV's. My wife claims she wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan. We started out with the Expedition because, at the time, we were buying $500 worth of groceries at Sam's Club every other week for my wife's job (director of a child care center). When she switched jobs and the lease on the Expo was up, we downsized to the Explorer -- slightly smaller, slightly better mileage, but still has the 3rd row of seats. The Explorer lease comes due next spring, so we're seriously considering another, smaller SUV. Our kids are 17 and 15 and rarely go with us anywhere anymore. Hence our interest in the XT and VUE.
I didn't mean to portray my wife as a semi-demonic, overly aggressive driver. I'm not hear to start a flame war; just to get solid information about a car we happen to be interested in. Sorry y'all took it that way.
The answer is "YES." The square bar rack available as an option for Foresters accommodates Thule accessories. It attaches quickly with the flip of a lever at each pedestal and includes locks and keys. This rack is manufactured by MontBlanc. They also make the Subaru brand cargo boxes. It seems to be a better rack for much less money than buying an after-market Thule. I now have three Thule bar sets sitting in my garage from various cars so I know. The rack does sit a few inches higher on the bars compared to the factory rack. It is also less aerodynamic, so noisier, especially with kayak attachments. However, if you already have a bunch of Thule accesories it is the best value.
It does go on and off in just about two minutes so its easy to pop on only when needed. The Forester XT - PP is extremely quiet without the rack, even with that huge Galaxy Roof (moon-roof, hardly!)
Just so we're all on the same page, I live in a very congested urban area, and I've seen a good many people who do use their SUV's as weapons of intimidation.
Seen it done to others, had it done to me. Deliberately, with malice aforethought as they say. So...... I'll admit that I'm sensitive about the whole SUV driver as demon thing.
I've even ticked off some of my friends when I've been a passenger in their SUV's by asking them when they turned into such jerks, they were nice people until they got behind the wheel. I'm happy to say most of them are still my friends.
I seriously digressed here and I apologize for taking up the bandwidth. Something about almost becoming a hood ornament stays with me for a few days.
Also, it sounds like none of this applies to your wife's driving, which can only be a good thing.
Larry
Like I pointed out, I'm the aggressive driver in the relationship, though I drive the Explorer about as much as she does.
I have the same problem -- here in Denver, there are lots of SUV's and dually/extended-cab/quad-cab pickup trucks driven as commuter vehicles. And I've seen the same behavior you have. And I'm just as frustrated by it.
I was trying to be <ahem> humerous, and my attempt failed miserably. I've been posting on Edmunds for many years and don't actively seek out confrontation or start flame wars. I'm a huge car nut and have found these boards a great place to find and share information about cars I'm interested in.
OK, enough of this; back to our regularly scheduled discussion of the XT...
I cant wait for winter to read the posts of new XT owners when the snow hits. Subaru AWD and good usable ground clearance combined with excellent handling make the Forester and the Outback the best cars for winter. Period. With the XT's power, you can also avoid the nincompoops who are out there on bald tires and even less tread between their ears. The Forester has the best safety ratings of any car that is even remotely comparable. but no car or SUV will save you when the tractor-trailer smashes into you. The best safety is the ability to avoid a collision.
The jury is still out on seat comfort in the Forester. Some rave, some rant, some relax.
Larry, maybe I just need to raise my rates by $1.78/ hour to cover the XT!
Mark
The NB the wife currently drives acts as a snowplow often -- in fact, with the big storm we had last spring, she ripped off the belly pan going over some hard packed snow. Several hundred $$$ to fix (I had the Explorer that day).
"The best safety is the ability to avoid a collision." -- Amen to that. The wife grew up in Wyoming and is much better at winter driving than I ever will be, even though I've lived in Colorado for 10 years now.
michaell
Steve, Host
Sweet.
juice -- it seems as though you were right!
Ken
You also might want to consider replacing the under engine plastic shield with a metal one. I'm reasonably certain Primitive also makes one of those, and there's bound to be others. The official Forester clearance number is still 7.5 inches, I believe.
Also - be sure to factor in the day/night mirror. The new series mirror they're using is a Gentex and it works much better than ones I've seen before, including the ones in the 03's. Its so much better I'm thinking about pulling the one out of the wife's Outback and just buying her one of the Gentex's.
The boost gauge is an out and out frill, but its really cool.
The black leather seats really look much better after they've been dressed up with some Lexol - I don't understand why they send them out so "dry". The lumbar adjust is okay, but I really liked the Ford/Mercury set up with the inflatable air bladder better.
ken - 240 hp. 240 hp. 240 hp....eyes glazing over.... If that holds up it really buries any concerns I had left about mpg. As it sits now with just over 1000 miles its better than my Sable's was.
Larry
Don
Mark
maybe i will have to turn in the odyssey for one of those new '05 subies hehehehe.
Having picked-up my new Forester and driven it for a thousand miles, your comments on the 2004 lights were correct. They are good, big improvement over my 2000 Forester.
Low beams illuminate about twice the distance and fog lamps are very useful, providing a big boost in lumens. Now I agree with your assertion that it don't get much better this side of E-code.
My initial impressions on the 2004 were mistaken and I felt I owed to readers of this forum to set the record straight. Much better headlights than I expected on the 2004. Good headlights.
Beyond lighting I'm very impressed with the many improvements over the first generation Foresters. Impression has only deepened over the last month of driving. For the money, 2004 XS is good value. If I were a mountain man or regularly drove busy freeways I wouldn't hesitate to buy a XT with AT. May buy one anyway, come MY2005.
Jake
Compared to a Vue? The negatives apparently include wives that steal it from you, speeding tickets, and the fact that everything else seems slow after driving an XT. ;-)
But seriously, the Vue is decent, but when I test drove a V6 it had a bouncy ride. The Redline should tighten that up, I'd hope. The AWD feels like FWD, I think it's a reactive system like Honda's.
My other concerns would be reliability, and then resale. You pay MSRP, too, remember, but when you sell getting retail back for it is nearly impossible.
I'll assume the Redline will get better seats, the existing ones were awful. If they fix that and the suspension, it could be a contender.
You sure it'll burn regular? Pilot does, with 240hp, but MDX wants premium, with 260hp. The Vue splits the difference, so I wasn't sure what fuel would be required. 0-60 I bet even the automatic XT is quicker, the 5 speed much quicker.
Last but not least, I don't think the Vue Redline will come with a manual tranny. For a sporty offering, that's the kiss of death.
-juice
I'm not thinking of the RedLine edition, just a standard AWD V6. The RedLine comes with 18" wheels, which may result in too stiff of a ride. The V6 will still have 17" wheels as standard, vs. the 16" wheels on the XT.
Wife wants an automatic this time (she only drove sticks when I met her -- guess I've corrupted her!), so the auto-only VUE is OK.
I can get a GM supplier discount, so won't pay full MSRP. The prices seem similar. Equipped the way we want, the MSRP on the VUE is just over $27K, which is within a few hundred dollars of the XT with the Premuium Pkg with no options.
Looks like a head to head comparison will be in order next spring. May also consider the Chevy Equinox but not sure about a first model year vehicle --- did that with our Explorer and have regretted it.