Top of the line models are not normally in a rental fleet because of insurance costs and vulnerability of theft or vandalism. Unless you go to rent exotic cars, then that's different; and so is the cost to rent them ;-)
> He said it was grossly underpowered and handled poorly.
Any details on why it handles so poorly? I didn't want to register, but my guess is it's the tall, skinny, cheap (bad combination) tires, since the suspension design is top notch.
The underpowered part I can understand. 20 lbs/hp is a bad power to weight ratio, especially when peak power is way up there at 6400 rpm. They would have been better off using a detuned version of the 3.5, which probably costs less to produce anyway (2 cams instead of 4). They probably used the 2.7 for EPA ratings.
I'm 29 and it sounds extremely high to me also. I'm having trouble getting online quotes (most sites do not have the 300C listed) and this is the only quote I have so far. I was hoping some of the owners could come forward and let me know if it's an appropriate rate (for the 300C) or Gieco is out of thier minds.
You may want to call them instead of using their website. I called mine(Progressive)and even speaking person to person I had to correct the woman a few times as to what car it was I was requesting a quote on.
"That was a 300Z sir?"
"No, a 300C"
"Yes, a 300Z"
"No...a 300 - C, as in C is for cookie, Si senor, Oh say can you see...."
ALL insurance companies are out of their minds and so are the state departments that regulate them! KEEP SHOPPING!!! You'll find something "reasonable". Try this site-
Isn't it sad? WHY they EVER call these people "customer service reps" is BEYOND me! I think they need to give IQ tests before hiring for a job where someone has to deal with the public on important issues!
tibbune - Actually I did call them and that's the only way I have gotten a quote so far. Sorry I can't tell from your post but did progressive quote the 300C for you? If so how much?
You asked if there were Any details on why the La TImes tester said the 300 Base handles so poorly.
He blamed it on the tires: He said "the sidewall deflection gave the car a squirmy feeling, a tail-wagging hysteresis (the mechanical difference between cause, i.e., steering input, and effect, sidewall loading and unloading). On a straight bit of road, I tugged the wheel left and right and the 300 sashayed like Veronica Lake through a hotel lobby".
In his opinion, it was "unsafe at highway speed". I wonder what Ralph Nader would say?
fastdriver - thanks for the link - Got one at $1350 and another at $676. I've forgot all about what a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] getting new car insurance is.
A midwestern newspaper is hoping to interview owners and shoppers of new Chrysler 300 models. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, April 30, 2004 with your daytime phone number and a line about the vehicle.
I logged into the LA Times and read the review. Frankly, this may be one of the worst auto reviews I've read. If memory serves the only difference between the Touring/Limited and the base 300 is the 2.7. Tires, suspension are the same. The Touring/Limited add the 3.5, alloy wheels, and ESP/ABS... Hardly enough to change the handling dynamics....
from what i understand, the base and limited have a softer suspension....the touring and C are firmer. i recently drove a touring model and it seemed just fine to me...
Amex Assurance Co. Wi. Have been with them for years. If you have anything on your driving record or any accidents They won't touch you. I am 34 single with a clean record.. 300c HEMI 100k 300k one thousand ded. $326.00 every 6 months. Full coverage!!!! 1-800-535-2001
Yup, the sure have changed from time to time. Remember when the original VW GTI was considered relatively quick? IIRC, it did 0-60 around 9-10 seconds or so. My 4200 lb 4runner would leave it in the dust...
Has anyone else noticed that on the 300C with the light leather the carpet is also light, but on the 300 Limited with the light leather, the carpet is dark? The light carpet really scares me with 2 boys, ages 9 & 6. If I go ahead and place my order, it will be the dark blue 300C with the darker leather rather than the light leather.
Is different everywhere! For everyone! The car itself doesn't have that much of an impact anymore. Now days 90% of insurance company's base it on your credit. You have good credit you get better rates.
As I understand there are no differences in the suspension tuning of the base, Touring and Limited....but there are in the 300C.. I could be wrong... In addition the tire size doesn't change until you go to the C for 18"..
. . .the size, width and profile seem to be more for comfort than performance 60 series? A 55 or 50 with at least 10mm more width and Z rated on 18" rims would probably "transform" the handling.
The on line tire guys do not, YET, have any plus Zero sizing information and there are no 55 series tires -- and, as I recall, no 50 series tires that would maintain the proper rpms. 225 x 60 x 18" "ought to" translate into ABOUT 245 x 55 x 18" -- which in a UHPorMAX performance summer only tire, should improve the handling without seriously degrading the ride or road noise.
Or, will buyers be foreced into aftermarket wheels and tires and possibly forced to 19" wheels to maintain proper geometry?
My point, even the 300C seems "under - tired". . .
fuzzywuzzy - So after all these years of keeping a good driving record only affected 10% of my insurance rates? Why is it that no one is talking about getting your credit score up to reduce your rates? Does your agent ask for your permission to run your credit? If not they are breaking the law. Would a 761 get you preffered rates?
The insurance companies check the credit score, but it does not show up as a credit inquiry, which might lower the score. The whole credit scoring system is baloney - the top scores often go to those with relatively low incomes and lots of loaded up credit cards.
The car does matter, apparently more than your age. My wife was told that the rate on our Mercedes-Benz C230 is high because of the car, despite our ages (41 and 46).
> My point, even the 300C seems "under - tired". . .
I agree. 245/55-18 seems like a much more reasonable size (and it would fit on the factory rims), but even then that's not wide for a car this size. BF Goodrich makes the g-Force T/A KDWS in this size, and they don't cost that much. I would check the clearance before I upgraded though.
The base/Touring/Limited is a much harder problem to solve. 215/65-17 is something that belongs on a minivan! There are currently no good alternatives that I know of. The best I could find is the Goodyear Eagle LS (which is not that great of a tire) in 235/60-17. Again, I would check clearances.
The problem is that with a diameter of 28" (base/Touring/Limited) to 28.6" (300C), these tires are really up in the light truck category, so it's hard to find high-performance rubber.
It's probably time for me to suggest that the insurance conversation be taken to a more appropriate discussion -- try the Keyword Search on the left side of the page.
size tire is the 255/55-17. It is within .1% on speedo error. But it is pretty wide and may not fit. But there are a couple of good choices available including the Goodrich Scorcher summer tire and a Kumho Ecsta model. Both around $100 each from Tire Rack. There is also a Michelin which is designed for small trucks..
> [ANother comparable] size tire is the 255/55-17. It is within .1% on speedo error. But it is pretty wide and may not fit.
Yeah, you would probably have to go to 8" rims with a different offset to get those to fit. It might tear the suspension up too. Still, 255's -- that's a 10" patch of rubber on the road. :-)
the reviewer over at usatoday said the base and limited had a softer suspension...and that touring and C were firmer...that's what i was basing my info on.
Ordered my 300c on April 6 & arrived @ dealer today. Yes, I special ordered it, has my name on sticker "Made Especially for...". After reading many post that people ordered in Jan. Wondering why I got mine in only 3 weeks? Pick it up tomorrow, looking forward to it.
Magnesium Pearl/Dark Slate/Medium Slate Leather.
Regarding car insurance. I also have "Geico". When I read someone paying $1,200 + for 6 months. I for sure was ready to not buy this car. I called "Geico" today to be sure & only $85.00 increase per 6 months. I guess being 46 is finally paying off, as I will only pay $820.00 per year for this 300C. 200 deductible.
Got home from work and on my TiVo there was a Chrysler 300 showcase.
It had a quick 30 second introductory video with 2 Silver 300Cs - one obviously with the ESP off as it was oversteering throughout the entire video with the second right behind it.
Also, there was a three minute video talking about the 300's ABS/ATCS/ESP systems and how they work in poor conditions. And one of the cars they had in the video was in Lava Red - I liked the color - it is very close to black and depending on the light either looks dark maroon (almost brown) or a deep red (similar to the Wilson Golf Driver).
In addition, there is also the opportunity to order the Road & Track 64-page supplemental on the 300 (already have two so I didn't order).
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the first number in tire size is not tread width, but rather section width. This is where the 'bulge' is in the sidewall. They are related, obviously, however different tires having the same section width can have a vastly different tread width.
Come on SRT version...I want a borderline harsh suspension, if necessary, to get .85 G or more on a skidpad. Plus, at 5.3 sec 0-60, I wonder how much tweaking would be necessary to get it into the coveted 4 second area....
after a visit to a dealer in Alexandria, VA; came home with a loaded "C". Just went in and bought it without any pre-order, etc. Jade Pearl with the light gray/dark green interior. Carpets are very light gray so will add other front and rear mats. Has Nav, Sound II, Sirius, UConnect, Adjustable Pedals, Side Airbags, etc. MSRP $38728.
I am very very impressed with the build quality of this car; best yet in my now 63 new cars that I have purchased since 1950, including 2 Benz's. I had been very unhappy with Chrysler's build quality on my previous 3 but this on is very well screwed together.
Got a big kick out of driving back home to Ashburn during the evening rush hour from DC, etc.; quite a few other drivers did a double take and hovered around, checking it out. If that is any indication of prospective sales, Chrysler should have a winner. Car drove and rode well, engine is very strong, and the suspension and tires are taut, firm, and QUIET.
I'll be happy to answer any questions; either here or via e-mail; have pretty well gone through the manual.
So far as I can tell at this point, the exhaust system is NOT stainless steel as was on the LH series, but it is a true dual system.
"So far as I can tell at this point, the exhaust system is NOT stainless steel as was on the LH series, but it is a true dual system."
While looking over (actually under, lying on my back) a 300C in the parking lot of my local CarMax / Chrysler dealer it appeared to me that there is a very (!) large single muffler located roughly under the back seat area, and then the system splits into dual rear mufflers and tips.
Did I miss something?
- Ray Wondering what this hemi would sound like through MagnaFlows . . .
If they got the exhaust components from whomever did the OEM exhaust on the 300M, then it will wear like iron. I got my car new in July 98 and when I went to duals about 18 months ago, the OEM system was still rock hard and showing no corrosion at all. The shop re-used a small length of it, I think just behind the cat, and still no problem. Having had an OEM muffler fail before at 19K miles I was really pleased with the quality of what was OEM on the 300M. On the other hand, the new after market muffler put on to handle the duals [a Camaro type] and new pipes are already showing some rust at the joint where they meet but I got a warranty until October on them so I'll just wait for some leakage to start and get em replaced. May go for stainless tho.
I have ordered the same colour as you with most of your equipment except Nav and Sirrus. The question I have is, have you looked at putting a bra on this car or possibly the 3M shield and if so have you priced it out? It may not be available as yet, but I have a nose bra on my 01M and have still got lots of rock chips, but most were done before I got the bra. Is the Jade a striking colour? I have seen 3 different colours in my market, but not the Jade and all I have to go on is the brochure that sometimes is not quite the same.
some parts are indeed shared with mercedes. i understand the seat frames and steering column are shared with e class merc. suspension is based on the e class but no parts are interchangeable between the two. the LX cars are wider and longer than the e class. also, the five speed automatic in the C model is a mercedes designed, but chrysler built unit...
How does the darker interior look in your new 300C? I have been looking but have not found one on the lots with the darker leather. I'll bet it looks nice. The darker carpet is more practical too.
> i understand the seat frames and steering column are shared with e class merc.
I love the MB cruise control stalk, but I have trouble with the power seat adjuster. The recliner button is placed directly over the rear part of the seat adjuster button, so it's easy to raise the rear part of the seat, but very difficult to lower it, since there's no way to get at the top of the button. Has anyone figured out how to do this? Maybe I'm doing something wrong...
> suspension is based on the e class but no parts are interchangeable between the two.
I crawled under the car to have a peek. :-) Front is short-long arm, with seperate lateral and diagonal links on the bottom. Everything appears to be cast iron in front.
The rear has large stamped-steel lower lateral arms that carry the springs (inboard) and shocks (outboard), and cast aluminum diagonal links. There are also dual cast aluminum upper lateral links, and what looks to be some sort of compression link in the upper-rear. I think this last one is for toe control during heavy braking.
OT: The puddle lamps in the front doors are cool too!
In the R&T mailer, of which I received one, dunno why other than I'm on the C&D mailing list and a registered owner of an LH, but anyway, on the specs page, the 5.7 is listed as having a redline of 9,000 RPM. I didn't know Honda helped out with this one!
;-)
You'd think, on a big, pretty, special deal like this, they'd have had a team of proof-readers. I'd like to volunteer, if I get to drive, of course....
When I came out of the store last night there was a brand new 300 (base) parked next to my 300M. It is interesting that you do notice quite a bit that the base 300 is missing a lot of details that make the 300C look better. Of course it is not like the dfference between the Concorde and the 300M. But the chrome, the tail pipes and all the other little things do add a lot to the C. And of course the interior looks a lot nicer in the C. But even more amazing was sitting in my 300M and looking over to the new 300. How much lower I was sitting, how the window line of the new one is so much higher and how in general it appeared to be a much bigger and bolder, massive car. Well only a few weeks more until I will get mine. Wonder if it will be more like 3 or more like 8 weeks.
Thanks carcom2 for posting your findings on the 300 HAVING a stainless exhaust. There are probably many posters and lurkers that find this info helpful.
Yeah, I confirmed something my wife and I have suspected for many years, that being, the Intrepid's seating position is much lower than average. I sit lower in Sheba (the '95 3.5 ES's name) than does a driver in a new Mini Cooper. This wasn't a side-by-side, but rather, I was behind one and was shocked his head was obviously higher than mine.
I'm actually glad the new C has a higher seating position, as it's been harder and harder for both of us to get out of the Intrepid since a really bad motorcycle accident three years ago.
The lower trim levels don't have chrome mirrors/door handles, the tail lights seem different, and the headlights are definitely different. This is just from looking at pictures, I'm sure there are many more if you get to see them next to each other.
Kelly hoping an SRT version has the 6.1L motor and is an AMG-terrorizer on the cheap
Comments
Any details on why it handles so poorly? I didn't want to register, but my guess is it's the tall, skinny, cheap (bad combination) tires, since the suspension design is top notch.
The underpowered part I can understand. 20 lbs/hp is a bad power to weight ratio, especially when peak power is way up there at 6400 rpm. They would have been better off using a detuned version of the 3.5, which probably costs less to produce anyway (2 cams instead of 4). They probably used the 2.7 for EPA ratings.
"That was a 300Z sir?"
"No, a 300C"
"Yes, a 300Z"
"No...a 300 - C, as in C is for cookie, Si senor, Oh say can you see...."
"Oh, OK,the one by Nissan, here's your quote!"
"...Gieco is out of thier minds."
ALL insurance companies are out of their minds and so are the state departments that regulate them! KEEP SHOPPING!!! You'll find something "reasonable". Try this site-
http://insweb.com/
fastdriver
Isn't it sad? WHY they EVER call these people "customer service reps" is BEYOND me! I think they need to give IQ tests before hiring for a job where someone has to deal with the public on important issues!
fastdriver
He blamed it on the tires: He said "the sidewall deflection gave the car a squirmy feeling, a tail-wagging hysteresis (the mechanical difference between cause, i.e., steering input, and effect, sidewall loading and unloading). On a straight bit of road, I tugged the wheel left and right and the 300 sashayed like Veronica Lake through a hotel lobby".
In his opinion, it was "unsafe at highway speed". I wonder what Ralph Nader would say?
Good for you! All is takes is PATIENCE and PERSISTENCE! I got those qualities from my FORMER car ownership! ;-))
fastdriver
from what i understand, the base and limited have a softer suspension....the touring and C are firmer. i recently drove a touring model and it seemed just fine to me...
I gave up waiting for the silver 300C I ordered January 13th to be scheduled for production, and bought a black one out of the dealer's inventory.
stephen
Is different everywhere! For everyone! The car itself doesn't have that much of an impact anymore. Now days 90% of insurance company's base it on your credit. You have good credit you get better rates.
The on line tire guys do not, YET, have any plus Zero sizing information and there are no 55 series tires -- and, as I recall, no 50 series tires that would maintain the proper rpms. 225 x 60 x 18" "ought to" translate into ABOUT 245 x 55 x 18" -- which in a UHPorMAX performance summer only tire, should improve the handling without seriously degrading the ride or road noise.
Or, will buyers be foreced into aftermarket wheels and tires and possibly forced to 19" wheels to maintain proper geometry?
My point, even the 300C seems "under - tired". . .
The car does matter, apparently more than your age. My wife was told that the rate on our Mercedes-Benz C230 is high because of the car, despite our ages (41 and 46).
I agree. 245/55-18 seems like a much more reasonable size (and it would fit on the factory rims), but even then that's not wide for a car this size. BF Goodrich makes the g-Force T/A KDWS in this size, and they don't cost that much. I would check the clearance before I upgraded though.
The base/Touring/Limited is a much harder problem to solve. 215/65-17 is something that belongs on a minivan! There are currently no good alternatives that I know of. The best I could find is the Goodyear Eagle LS (which is not that great of a tire) in 235/60-17. Again, I would check clearances.
The problem is that with a diameter of 28" (base/Touring/Limited) to 28.6" (300C), these tires are really up in the light truck category, so it's hard to find high-performance rubber.
Now, back to the 300 ...
Yeah, you would probably have to go to 8" rims with a different offset to get those to fit. It might tear the suspension up too. Still, 255's -- that's a 10" patch of rubber on the road. :-)
the reviewer over at usatoday said the base and limited had a softer suspension...and that touring and C were firmer...that's what i was basing my info on.
225mm divided by 25.4 = 8.86" X 60% = 5.31"
5.31" X 2 = 10.62" + 18" wheel = 28.62" tall tire.
245/55R-18:
245mm divided by 25.4 = 9.65" X 55% = 5.31"
5.31" X 2 = 10.62 + 18" wheel = 28.62" tall tire.
They are the same height.
Not too bad.
Yes, I special ordered it, has my name on sticker "Made Especially for...".
After reading many post that people ordered in Jan.
Wondering why I got mine in only 3 weeks?
Pick it up tomorrow, looking forward to it.
Magnesium Pearl/Dark Slate/Medium Slate Leather.
Regarding car insurance. I also have "Geico".
When I read someone paying $1,200 + for 6 months.
I for sure was ready to not buy this car.
I called "Geico" today to be sure & only $85.00 increase per 6 months.
I guess being 46 is finally paying off, as I will
only pay $820.00 per year for this 300C. 200 deductible.
Good luck to all buying this great car!
It had a quick 30 second introductory video with 2 Silver 300Cs - one obviously with the ESP off as it was oversteering throughout the entire video with the second right behind it.
Also, there was a three minute video talking about the 300's ABS/ATCS/ESP systems and how they work in poor conditions. And one of the cars they had in the video was in Lava Red - I liked the color - it is very close to black and depending on the light either looks dark maroon (almost brown) or a deep red (similar to the Wilson Golf Driver).
In addition, there is also the opportunity to order the Road & Track 64-page supplemental on the 300 (already have two so I didn't order).
TT
Come on SRT version...I want a borderline harsh suspension, if necessary, to get .85 G or more on a skidpad. Plus, at 5.3 sec 0-60, I wonder how much tweaking would be necessary to get it into the coveted 4 second area....
I am very very impressed with the build quality of this car; best yet in my now 63 new cars that I have purchased since 1950, including 2 Benz's. I had been very unhappy with Chrysler's build quality on my previous 3 but this on is very well screwed together.
Got a big kick out of driving back home to Ashburn during the evening rush hour from DC, etc.; quite a few other drivers did a double take and hovered around, checking it out. If that is any indication of prospective sales, Chrysler should have a winner. Car drove and rode well, engine is very strong, and the suspension and tires are taut, firm, and QUIET.
I'll be happy to answer any questions; either here or via e-mail; have pretty well gone through the manual.
So far as I can tell at this point, the exhaust system is NOT stainless steel as was on the LH series, but it is a true dual system.
Looking forward to driving this one.
While looking over (actually under, lying on my back) a 300C in the parking lot of my local CarMax / Chrysler dealer it appeared to me that there is a very (!) large single muffler located roughly under the back seat area, and then the system splits into dual rear mufflers and tips.
Did I miss something?
- Ray
Wondering what this hemi would sound like through MagnaFlows . . .
How big is the gap between the hood and the grill?
some parts are indeed shared with mercedes. i understand the seat frames and steering column are shared with e class merc. suspension is based on the e class but no parts are interchangeable between the two. the LX cars are wider and longer than the e class. also, the five speed automatic in the C model is a mercedes designed, but chrysler built unit...
I love the MB cruise control stalk, but I have trouble with the power seat adjuster. The recliner button is placed directly over the rear part of the seat adjuster button, so it's easy to raise the rear part of the seat, but very difficult to lower it, since there's no way to get at the top of the button. Has anyone figured out how to do this? Maybe I'm doing something wrong...
> suspension is based on the e class but no parts are interchangeable between the two.
I crawled under the car to have a peek. :-) Front is short-long arm, with seperate lateral and diagonal links on the bottom. Everything appears to be cast iron in front.
The rear has large stamped-steel lower lateral arms that carry the springs (inboard) and shocks (outboard), and cast aluminum diagonal links. There are also dual cast aluminum upper lateral links, and what looks to be some sort of compression link in the upper-rear. I think this last one is for toe control during heavy braking.
OT: The puddle lamps in the front doors are cool too!
;-)
You'd think, on a big, pretty, special deal like this, they'd have had a team of proof-readers. I'd like to volunteer, if I get to drive, of course....
Kelly
I'm actually glad the new C has a higher seating position, as it's been harder and harder for both of us to get out of the Intrepid since a really bad motorcycle accident three years ago.
The lower trim levels don't have chrome mirrors/door handles, the tail lights seem different, and the headlights are definitely different. This is just from looking at pictures, I'm sure there are many more if you get to see them next to each other.
Kelly
hoping an SRT version has the 6.1L motor and is an AMG-terrorizer on the cheap