Chevy Silverado - III

13567…24

Comments

  • teaboy022teaboy022 Member Posts: 59
    Trust me a 4.8 will pull a bass boat just fine... But if you think the 5.3 is necessary... Go with it... i personally wouldnt pay the 800 for the 15 extra ponies but if you got the cash to throw then go ahead... yes i realize when your buying a 20k+ truck $800 dollars more is not alot... but if you think about it... Would you throw $800 around and think nothing of it... I guess i may be a little more conservative with the cash that im spending... especially if i know that i dont really need it.... hey i would have loved to order Z71 package but on florida roads do i need it ... hell no... but it looks good and would be nice to have huh....
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    For long term reliability....these small ones are not going to cut it. I'm not a fan of engines getting smaller all the time with more HP to boot.

    A good rule of thumb (for me) has always been 350 or larger..now that means 6.0..which means 3/4..and I realize that isn't an option for many people. But go with the 5.3. it will add at least $400 to resale 10 years from now...while giving much more reliability over the years.

    can't afford?....that's OK too....why do you think they offer so many different engines?

    My 2 cents worth.

    Good Luck

    - Tim
  • reeferreefer Member Posts: 37
    $800.00 will buy you a nice Leer fiberglass cap to stick on top of your truck.
  • cr3cr3 Member Posts: 42
    i saw a 99 silverado\sierrer and knew i had to have one. but after searching lots after lots icouldnt find one for under 24000. out of the buget!! however after learning how using all the expert information from you the people,edmunds,and all other rellated info the dream came true. do you believe you can drive a 2000 exendo base with all the standerd features for about 18000 & change i did !!!! yahoo..
  • cr3cr3 Member Posts: 42
    so then i added a v8,air,auto,end other small options.oops! spent a liitle more.but the fact of the matter is i got what i wanted and thats what its really about
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Mgdvhman is right. Get the most powerful engine you can. The engine is the heart of any vehicle. You can't have too much power, only not enough. The invoice price on the 5.3 is only $688 extra. The mpg is about the same. And if you're towing or in an urban error, or like modern automatics like me, you're getting the auto. anyway. If you like the stick, good luck finding them, or even trying to get 1 built. Automatics may be an option, but that's only to keep the "base price" low; they're on every truck I've seen in the last 6 months.
    Note: The 1500 4x4 5.3L w/3.73 is rated to tow 7500lb, the 4.8L w/3.73 only 6500 lb.
  • goodbidgoodbid Member Posts: 8
    go for the 4.l0, 3/4 extended cab, 4x4 with that mighty powerful 6.0 LT long bed like i did. Ain't no hill to long or grade to steep for me and my 6.0 truck and 5th wheel. love it.
  • reeferreefer Member Posts: 37
    Just want to pass along this tip since this seems to be an active topic. If any of you notice a low speed squeaking under your new GM truck, check the two grounding straps (one each side) under the cab by each rear body mount. The frame end of the strap is loose and rubs the attaching bolt and mount causing an annoying squeak. I secured the bolt with a couple of washers, and the squeak is gone. The dealer had no clue about this defect.
  • 62gmc62gmc Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone know why the 5.3L engine is not available with a 5-speed?

    Also, How does the 4x4 perform off road?
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Well I have the 5.3L, but I don't think I was being particularly smart for getting it, or not. I simply wanted it along with power windows, LS trim, something comfortable but not extravagant.

    But the point about the 5.3L lasting longer is probably going to be a myth, since as Markbuck pointed out earlier, the piston speed in ft/min is less since it is de-stroked compared to the 5.3L.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Beer for everyone!!..(Or Coke if you don't drink)

    Turns out my 2000 3/4 LT SB was delivered last night and will be ready to take by 5:00 tonight!

    Whoooohoooooo!!..(As Homer would say)

    I'll drop pics as soon as I can.

    www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/TimsTruck.wav

    (This takes a while...but I had to do it)

    - The Ever so Happy and Friendly Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/Comin.wav

    (God Damn I love Rock and Roll!)

    Gonna trash those speakers by dark!

    - Tim
  • rhinncrhinnc Member Posts: 66
    Just finished talking to the service advisor where I bought my Z71 4x4. Seems after 521 miles I have developed a oil leak. At first glance it seems to be around the rear main. Leaking enough to leave a sizeable spot on the garage floor. I just topside, around the valve cover gaskets and they appear to be dry. I was going to wait another week or two to take it in to have a low speed squeak/creaking sound checked out. Sounds like it is coming from under the cab or rear springs. I will check out the "grounding" or support straps as referred to in an earlier post.

    Overall I really do like my truck, my lease on my 97 F150 4x4 Lariat was up and I thought I'd try something new. Other than the above items I have been very satisfied.
  • tp4unctp4unc Member Posts: 437
    Congratulations! I chose another truck but I'm with you in spirit. Glad you survived the wait. If that thing can make it to North Carolina(HaHa) look me up and we'll try to sneak up on a few deer. No Rompala bucks here, though. Enjoy.
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    F220

    the old 350s were 335 ftlbs and 255 hp.

    definition of hp not quite right. hp is simply the torque times the rpm. the more hp you have, that means you have a more torque at whatever rpms...
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Couldn't wait until tonight. Went to the dealer and wanted to drive it. he said it has not been prepared or washed...but go ahead! Had 4 miles on it..now it has 14. Rode like a dream. no shimmys/shakes/or rattles. Don't think it had the tailgate dent either? around the handle. Got the check in hand right now and heading to the dealer. Don't think I'll be around tonight....so I'll drop pics in the morning. I didn't notice any cut outs in the bumper for air intake as Dave40 said? I did notice the rear view mirror showed Outside temp and Direction.....didn't 99's just have the Compass? radio looks the same...but I guess it's different inside.

    Yak later

    Ready for a spin Cindy?..hehehehee

    - Tim
  • vince5vince5 Member Posts: 5
    Tim - congratulations! I'm sure it will be worth the wait. I'm at the begining of the process, waiting for an order number.

    I want to add a cassette player to my LS and am hoping the std. radio/CD unit has an input. I see a button labeled "CD AUX" which I thought would be used to select an auxillary source but I tried pushing it when the radio was on and nothing happened. Does anyone know what the button is for?
  • somales1somales1 Member Posts: 22
    I've been driving an 89 Toyota 4by 22R for 10 years, Good truck but no balls. I will order my new 2000 silverado LS 4*4 extended cab for a spring delivery. I ask this question before and got some feedback thank you, but I need a little more. My question again, is the 4800 enough engine for a daily comuter, some lite hauling, some lite towing 2000lb. 35 cubic inches, $800 22.8 bucks an inch. I would not even blink if the extra cash got me the 6000 but the 4800 and 5300 seem to be so close to the same engine. come on folks say it ain't so. 0 to 60 the 4800 is 2tenths behind the 5300. I drive twin 800hp. 12 cylinders each 149 cubes per.for a living. all I want to no is if you drove both witch did you pick and why. p.s. gotta love that BOWTIE.......Thanks
  • RichinKsRichinKs Member Posts: 412
    I don't think most of us can answer that because there aren't many 4.8's on the lots to test. All I see are 5.3's and recently some 6.0's. But I will say the 5.3 with 4.1 can move. Alot faster than my 97 5.7. Its quicker than the 6000 with 3.73. But I hope the 6.0 will show its stuff towing my 8500 5th wheel with the 4.10 rear. Oh when can I order my forth door. September will never arrive. ....... Rich
  • reeferreefer Member Posts: 37
    I have a 99 Sierra 4x4 standard cab, long bed with the 4.8 and auto. It has lots of pick-up (at least when the air conditioning is not on.) I live in North Central PA. Lots of hills. I tow a bass boat and a 2600lb (dry weight) camper with no problems(not at the same time.) Otherwise, I use it to commute to work. I haven't checked the gas mileage yet but the tank doesn't seem to empty too fast. I have seen lots of 4.8's on the lots around here. HTH
  • reeferreefer Member Posts: 37
    The August issue of "Truck Trend" magazine ran an article on page 64 called "Chevy Silverado LT 4800." The last paragraph states: "If your towing payload demands are not strenuous, then the Vortec 4800 is an economical choice for the new Silverado. Since many pickups are being purchased for personal use and commuting with very few heavy work assignments, the Vortec 4800 is an excellent choice for this customer."
  • f220swiftf220swift Member Posts: 103
    The 350 pre vortech era. I thought were 200 hp and 300 torque.
  • nocartersnocarters Member Posts: 8
    About to order 2000 Chevy Silverado. Want the big
    tires which require either suspension pkg Z85 or
    ZX3(HD and Ride Control). Which should I get and
    how do they affect the ride(2WD)?. Thanks
  • rwagonerrwagoner Member Posts: 338
    The LT only comes with the 4800 as base engine for 2000? The '99 had the 5300.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    In selecting an engine ask these questions:
    Do I know how long I'm going to keep the vehicle?
    Do I know what I'll haul or tow doing that time?
    Will I consider upgrading or getting a bigger "towee"?
    Do I think a larger engine will be more marketable when I sell it? Will people ignore my 4.8L and want a 5.3L as I'm questioning now?
    Just like that Clint Eastwood classic "For a Few Dollars More" I got the 5.3L. You can't have too much power, only not enough!
  • RichinKsRichinKs Member Posts: 412
    You bring up a good point. When I got my 97 Z71 I got the 3.42 rearend as I only planned to pull a small utility trailer and fill the bed with light weight but large "stuff". About a year later my wife and I bought a fifth wheel trailer. I never anticipated getting a fifth wheel. The 3.42 was a bad choice. I had that on my full size 94 Blazer and it performed ok, but my current truck is a dog unless you get on it. And I don't think it help s mileage over the 3.73 either. I tow in third gear only to keep the rpm up. If I had the 3.73 and the 6600 pound option I think It would tow much better as it bounces to much even with overload helpers. ..... Rich
  • cdeancdean Member Posts: 1,110
    f220swift

    My 350 is the pre-vortec ('94). It is 210 hp and 330 ftlb.

    The Vortecs went to 255hp and 335 ftlb. (in '95, the last pre-Vortec, they derated the hp to 200)
  • vince7vince7 Member Posts: 4
    hello everyone,

    i have a 99 reg. cab 5.3l with 4.10 axle and trailering pkg.on my back bumper it says 500lb tongueload,and 5000 lb trailer load. what is this telling me? i would like to figure out how much wt i can carry on my trailer.the wt of the truck i believe is 6400. thanks a ton
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I'm looking at a printout of a very good article on towing. It was in www.popsci.com/automotive/suv/towing_smart.html.
    That should answer most of your general questions.
    I believe the 6400 lb you are referring to is the Gross Vehicle Weight, which is not the weight of your truck, but the maximum that the truck and everyone and everything in it should stay under. Your truck probably weighs about 4500lb. if 4wd, and depending on options.
    Also your truck is rated for 5000lb towing if it isn't equipped with the Z-71 or Z-85 heavyduty suspensions. Check the Chevy site and they have all the specifications for every configuration spelled out in one of the menus.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    An insider guy I know told me GM is going to put a Power Rear Sliding Window in trucks starting January. Now we are talking. LT's don't even come with a slider at all.....some geek in a suit thinks that an upscale truck should have a rear window defroster. I have never had the rear window fog up that I can recall. After it's warmed up...the Exhaust/heat coming from between the cab and box keeps it warm anyway!

    I might have him get me one when he can. Anybody need a rear window with a defroster?

    - Tim
  • cgoddardcgoddard Member Posts: 4
    mgdvman did your 2000 have the new bilstein shocks?
    guys at work are getting noise from the back
    shocks. anyone one else have this problem.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    haven't got that farr yet

    I've been keeping an ear out for rattles and squeeks...none yet.

    156 Miles and no shake either...haven't really opened it up yet...but it seems to be OK.

    The tailgate dent thing is not there either..cool.

    I'll take a looksee at the shocks tomorrow.

    what color should they be?...I THINK my rears are black?
  • pathomppathomp Member Posts: 25
    I have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments. You have all given me a bunch of valuable information. After being away for a couple of weeks it took a while to catch up though.

    I ordered a Y2K 3/4 ton, 4.10 ext cab, SB 4WD in June and am waiting anxiously delivery. The word is it will be made next week and delivered by the end of the month. Now that the time is getting close I have a couple questions:

    Does anybody know where I can get the exact prices for the 2000 models? The deal I made was $200 over invoice, so I would like to know what I am going to have to pay. Edmund does not seem to have 2000 prices posted yet and Kelly Blue Book does not give prices for the 4x4s. Where else can I look?

    Second question: What is the recommended routine for engine break-in? I want to do this right as I plan to keep this baby for the long term.

    Thanks for any info you can give me.

    PT
  • cgoddardcgoddard Member Posts: 4
    mgdvman i don't know.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    carwizard.com had exact msrp and invoice when I used it for pricing a 99.

    Break in:

    Book says:

    Avoid hard stops for 200 miles
    Don't full throttle for 500
    vary the speed...don't go constant
    and keep it under 55
    and Don't tow during the break in

    It says it will last better in the long run if these are done.

    Now other people here have gone 65 and seems they were fine with that. A buddy who worked at a GMC dealer said you can go 75...just don't Rag on it.

    My father in law has a 1 Ton Duelly Ford Crew Cab Powerstroke Diesel (95) and he drove from Michigan to Fort wayne going 90 all the way...His if fine.

    Another buddy got a 2000 3/4 5.9 dodge Diesel and pulled a ski boat 300 miles at 75 the next day he got it.

    Me personally....am following the book..(so farr). I had to get off the highway before I killed someone..Myself!....I usually go about 80. I've had it up to 75 to test for the shimmy...but that was it so farr. Gonna have 500 By Monday. This is killing me!

    - good Luck

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Well...Here are some pics. They were taken real quick and turned out OK....I'll get better ones for next time dave40. Don't use these!

    Can't see too many changes...Dunno know if the radio has the new stuff or not?..looks the same. Did the hour meter on 99's turn on by pushing the reset with the engine off?

    Here is a basic pic of the beast.

    http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/2000lt1.jpg

    Front end seems same...Don't know what holes you were talking about dave40?...Book says nuttin' about HP...have to check under the hood. It's got the 2 artificial intakes in the center above the actual bumper...but 99's had those too.

    http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/2000lt2.jpg

    Went with Med.grey interior....If graphite was just a little bit lighter.......

    http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/2000lt3.jpg

    I love these wheels..Love the tread on the On/off road tires....but WHY 245's? Dealer said larger tires (even 265's) will throw off the computer and if it needs service and it's related to that...Warranty Void!....This can't be true?..oh well...not touching them for a while anyway. Why you would take off the flares ona black truck is beyond me...These are [non-permissible content removed]!

    http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/2000lt4.jpg

    Only difference i see inside is the mirror. Did the 99's have temp and compass that you switched between? This one shows both. The two buttons do the same thing - turn it off! Still a nice option.

    http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/2000lt5.jpg

    Going to be a great relationship!

    Who wants it in 2 years when i off it?

    Thanks for looking.
    I'll get better pics to any one who wants them. (weather turned to crap here)

    Thanks for all the personal E-mails too...Glad to help you all.

    - Tim

    ..Where did Cindy go?
  • pathomppathomp Member Posts: 25
    Tim: Thanks for the response. Carwizard seems to be showing 1999 prices, though. Any other ideas, or do I just have to wait?

    Your truck look great! Are there any options you did not get? I'm a little jealous.

    PT
  • rwagonerrwagoner Member Posts: 338
    Power rear window sliders are cool. I removed the defroster window on my LT to install one (OK, actually I didn't do it ... the truck place did). It's a "necessity" on an extended cab.

    Richard
  • bobs5bobs5 Member Posts: 557
    http://www.edmunds.com/newtrucks/2000/chevrolet/silverado1500/ls2wdregularcablb.html

    Edmunds has the 2000 pricing available.

    It seems to be MIXED in with the 1999 price list.

    Don't know why they did not make a seperate list for 2000.
  • planejaneplanejane Member Posts: 167
    Sorry, I was busy for a couple of day - it took me a little time to catch up and sort through all the posts to finds YOURS!!

    WOW, nice pictures too. Trying to find the words.... Awesome, magnificent, finally!!!!

    I almost gave in, Tim. I almost went to the dealer and picked something off the lot, would have been a 1/2 ton - no good choices though. I talked to one of the guys at the dealer, and said I didn't know what to do. He said, for the money I am forking out, better not just buy something that I am not satisfied with. He's right, I will wait - maybe another 10-12 weeks? I drove by the dealer by my house twice this week, just looking at their Silverados. They have a Black 2000 - 3/4 ton ExtCab LT on their lot, too fancy for me. But just wanted to look, it looks just like yours.

    Does yours sit up high? I was wondering, is a 3/4 ton any higher than a 1/2 ton? I hope mine when it comes, is a tall truck.

    I am taking a whole week off work when I get mine and all I will do is drive, drive, drive. How does your wife like it? Have you taken it anywhere? I am HAPPY for you.

    More pictures More!! Yes, I would love to go for a ride!! (hehehehehehe) I want to know everything! Tell me more.

    Oh, I bet that feeling of driving it right off the dealers driveway was out of this world! I can't wait. God, that is awesome. Chevy Silverados RULE! Even after all the arguing, there is no passion - like the passion a Chevy lover has for his vehicle.

    Cindy
  • djstepdjstep Member Posts: 26
    kbb.com has got 2000 pricing.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Pathomp,

    LT's come with almost all the goodies.
    I got:
    4:10's
    Towing Package
    Skid Plates
    On/Off Road tires
    Block heater..(It's only 30 bucks!..don't ask why i got it)
    Firm Ride
    Oil cooler

    Did not get:
    Locking diff.
    Aux. battery
    cell phone provisions
    camper wiring

    Let me check my invoice later...but I'm pretty sure all that changed was the base price for the 2000's.

    Cindy,

    Go for the Black 3/4...we can be twinkies!..heheh

    I know some 2WD 1/2's are pretty low...and most 4WD are high. My 3/4 is high (Not Dodge High)...but it's no biggee for me..I'm 6'3. Now my father in law who is about a foot shorter had a tough time getting in to drive it. I may put nerf bars on...but when I had those on my last truck..all i did was just step over them all the time. Maybe just leave it alone. It sits just right...could have 265's for that little extra tire it needs.

    Wife called me and asked If i was coming straight home...I said why?...she said I better come straight home with it before my friends got a ride. I had all intentions of that anyway. She loves it. Wants to know when she takes it to work. i said after 500 Miles! No way in hell she will take it easy going from the Mustang to this. (yes..our household has..a ford!) (Not for my personal car) trying to convince here to get a WS6.

    you want to know everything eh?....well...i got no money now!...Could ya float me some gas money!?..LOL!!

    it was great to pull it off the lot Obviously. But i wasn't as pumped as i thought?....I love it to death...but as you get older i guess the excitement isn't there as much? When they got it in and I first saw it it had 4 Miles. I drove it to 14 before I bought it. next day I picked it up..still had 14 on it . So that was cool. it's got like 160?? or so now. Going to drive a lot this weekend and get 500 on it. Gotta have my 80MPH back!

    Other people may not like the new Silverado's...but what do we care what they think?
    I'm driving the best Truck you can get ...right now.

    Hold out for yours I guess....Time will pass before you know it.

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    hey!

    Rwag - where did the switch go for your slider?

    I notice to the right of the climate control there is a void where I could put it. heated mirrors still work fine I'd imagine?

    - Tim
  • planejaneplanejane Member Posts: 167
    Sure, I loan you some gas money.
    But, look at what you have. Would you like to have a pocket full of green or a Silverado?
    I know, you'd rather have both.

    I know about the getting older part. I'm 34, I know it won't be that big of a deal either - when finally.....
    But, hey we old folks have to try to keep excited at least. I really do know what you mean, though. Now what else have you got to look forward to? Maybe you should get a boat. :-P (We could post boat topics - NOT!)

    Enjoy your new truck, I know you do. :) It is great that you have it now.

    I think Dodge is TOO high anyway. WOnder if it has more chance of tipping? I don't know.

    Twinkies.. that's funny. LOL made me laugh.

    Cindy
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    I like boats..but would never get around to using it enough to make it worth while. Around here boat season is only 5 months tops...so you have to pretty much live on water or have that your only past time....not for me.

    I'll take the greenbacks AND Silverado please!

    - Tim
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    HEY thats a really cool truck. Did u just get the 2500 because you liked it or for work? I like the 2500's better but i would only get one if i need to haul stuff alot of as a work truck. i hope you plan on buffing it alot. My dad has a black S-`10 its a pain to keep looking nice well maybe its because he works in a steel mill and it gets filthy daily. Take care of it i bet ur turning alot of heads i know id take a second looks its a very nice (RUGGED) truck
  • ryanbabryanbab Member Posts: 7,240
    Your spending all that money you might as well pay the extrea few hundred. Its my first vehicle of my own that im gonna buy so im going all out (NO LEATHER SEATS THOUGH). NO CAP FOR ME ILL STICK WITH A SPRAY IN BED LINER, FENDER FLARES (NOW AN OPTION) NERF BARS and MAYBE A GRILL GUARD to make it look rough and tough. Oh yea cant forget the bass tracker on the back hahaha. All i need now is my insurance to lower a bit and for it to be sept 2000 and id be driving it. Im waiting to buy mine Sept - oct 2000 then ill be 21. I could buy on now but insurnace would kick my butt 2200 Every 6 months not worth it now.
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    RyanBob,

    Thanks for the kind words....they don't come my way too often here. (wonder why?)

    I got the 3/4 for a few reasons.

    It rides better Empty and full.
    It has a 350 or larger as I have always had.
    It don't look dumb when you do go a long distance with a bed load of whatever.
    And there is a small chance I may have a trailer some day soon....but probably not?
    And it's what I wanted...so I got it!

    I drive it to work...and then drive another truck..but this one does not make me money..JUST COST ME!..LOL!!

    Last 5 cars have been Red/Black/Black/Red/Black...so i think a pattern is developing here. I have a Hurst/Olds with a sweet black paint job that wins every time at shows...so I know what Black requires. (and it ain't fun!) oh well....Looks sweet when clean.

    Enjoy

    - Tim
  • mgdvhmanmgdvhman Member Posts: 4,157
    Cindy,

    I didn't mean we are "Old Folks"....just people getting older....I'm 32.....Grandma!..hehehheee
    What color did you say you went with?...Blue?

    I know.....32 big deal.....
    What is the oldest person here in this Forum?..let's hear it!

    - Tim
    "The Older I get.....The better I was!"
  • jasonpeterclarjasonpeterclar Member Posts: 30
    I think I have the answer to the question posted earlier of why can't you get the 5-speed with the 5.3L V-8. You have to look at the transmission itself. It's called the New Venture 3500 built by the joint venture of (Daimler)Chrysler and GM. It's used by both companies in Wranglers, Cherokees, S-10's, Dakotas and 1/2 ton pick ups. It is usually behind an I-6 or V-6 of around 200hp. It also can be found behind the Chrysler 5.2L (i think) and the GM 4.8L but that's it. I think somewhere between the GM 4.8L and the 5.3L is the torque input limit of that transmission. (Say around 350 ft-lbs or so) So you can't find it behind a 5.3L GM or the 5.9L Dodge. The light duty 5 speed behind those engines in 3/4 applications is a version of the NV-4500. There is also a NV4500HD used for the diesels and the bigger gas plants for both Dodge and GM.
    Interesting note is that Ford (blasphemy!) is using a new New Venture 6-speed tranny behind it's 99 diesels. It's the NV5600. Can't believe Ford is using a quasi GM part in its products! (Kind of like the GM 4 spd autos in the mid 90's Ford-Jaguars)
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