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tom
tom
~alpha
Also, has anyone installed on an XT longer Yakima crossbars than the 48" crossbars recommended by Yakima?
Thanks in advance.
Mark
Mark
Mark
Don
I used to have 58" crossbars, which are good for carrying multiple boats and plywood. However, many people bonked their heads on the ends because they stuck out. So I ended up cutting the crossbars shorter, probably more like 50" or so.
CRaig
Don
Craig
Don: Craig beat me to it. There are two Latch anchors on the left and right rear seats. The anchors are hidden behind pop-off plastic covers. There are three tether anchors up on ceiling behind three hinged plastic covers.
Ken
Link to article:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0415.htm
I apologize in advance if this topic has been covered previously or elsewhere. I've been through different OB threads and probably read about 100 pages but didn't see anything that dealt specifically with this issue.
BTW, I currently drive a V6 Ford Explorer, which I bought because it had a third seat for carpooling. Well, my circumstances have changed so I decided to go back to driving a real car and have considered everything for around $30-35 K, including the Mercedes C230 Kompressor, Nissan Maxima, etc. So last Saturday, I spent the day visiting dealers and doing test drives. I really wasn't planning on a wagon because I thought I wanted something with a sportier image, but I once had had an Outback and really appreciated the handling and function of the car, so I test drove a '05 black XT Ltd. It totally blew me away. I couldn't get over the improved interior and styling, and the turbo's performance was thrilling, especially in comparison to the Explorer. More surprisingly, I thought it was much more fun to drive than the Mercedes, which had failed to thrill me with its ride, handling or pickup. The OB is now at the top of my list. Anyway, I appreciate any guidance you all can offer.
As to engines: 3.0 H-6 vs 2.5 turbo H-4, they both make the same horsepower, but the H-4 turbo has much more torque. The powerband on the H-6 is more linear, whereas the H-4 turbo comes on at around 3000 rpm or so—and it comes on strong from there to redline. Also, the turbo is available with a 5-speed manual too.
Bob
And why is the Legacy GT's handling better? I know it's lower and has lower profile tires. Is it tuned differently? I also wonder if the Outback, though more expensive initially, is a better buy just because of greater name recognition and, hence, resale.
I've driven both an H6 and H4 turbo Outback back-to-back and the difference is very noticeable.
The Legacy GT, as you stated correctly, sits lower and rides on lower profile tires. Also, it uses a stiffer suspension set up as well as aluminum control arms to reduce unsprung weight. The other big difference is a quicker steering ratio. The GT has a 2.8 lock-to-lock ratio where as the OB uses 3.2. While the difference seems small on paper, it delivers a very different response on the road.
Ken
VDC vs ESP came up a while ago. If you are referring to VW's system, Subaru's VDC has a couple of distinct advantages:
* it can send 100% of power to either axle, VW is limited to 67% max
* it is proactive, VW reacts quickly, but it still reacts
VDC can shift power to the front axle if you lift off the throttle in a turn, before you even skid. The VW would have to skid a little bit first, then react, hopefully before you're stuck in the woods!
Dyno good to go! 260hp/270 lb-ft, eh? At least it's not like Mazda, Ford, and Hyundai, overstating power left and right.
If the Forester XT has about 250hp/265 lb-ft, the real difference is still pretty small. Plus the Forester is lighter and I think it's geared shorter. So off the line the Forester might be a bit quicker.
Tim: turbo longevity? The early 90s Subies ran about 120-160k miles before the turbo needed a rebuild, I think the new ones should be more durable given all the advancements made in technology. Mercedes just announced they will replace their superchargers with turbos because even they believe in turbo longevity now.
Brake fade when towing? Valid concern. And the Outback XT is far more likely to tow than a Legacy GT, yet the GT gets the bigger rotors.
Subaru should at least offer a tow package on the XT that gives it the bigger brakes and maybe a tranny cooler if needed.
-juice
Still, average out a top score with a Marginal one (note it's *not* rated Poor), and you still have much better than average.
The CR-V and Escape both have Marginal side impact ratings from IIHS and they constantly battle for best in class sales. Yet the Forester sells about half as much even though it got a much better Good score.
So I don't think it'll have that much impact on sales. And if you insist on a safe Subaru, get the Forester:
5 stars NHTSA front passenger
5 stars NHTSA front driver
5 stars NHTSA side driver
5 stars NHTSA side rear passenger
Best Pick IIHS front offset
Good IIHS side impact
Near perfect scores, makes most Volvos seem downright risky!
-juice
There is also capability to brake individual wheels to correct the path of the vehicle and this part, I believe, is similar in both systems.
VW has one very big advantage with ESP over VDC. It is an individual option available on all (or is it almost all) models. It is quite cheap too.
Krzys
Most ESP programs simply use the vehicles brakes to correct under/oversteer situations. Not all ESP programs are created equal and in many overly conservative programs, the use of the brakes, not surprisingly slows down the vehicle (hence some car testers turning off ESP to achieve the best lap times).
With VDC, the system will try and correct over/understeer by transfering power as well as applying brakes to individual wheels. The result is advertised to be less intrusive than a ABS-only ESP program.
Ken
When I say "linear" I meant even and predictable. There is no sudden surge of power at any given rpm, unlike that of the turbo.
On the flip side, if you're more of an "outdoorsy" guy, the Outback may be the better choice. It comes standard with roof rack cross bars and a rubber trunk mat, which are optional on the Legacy. Also the HD raised suspension and larger tires do have an advantage on marginal roads or traction.
Bob
The quick steering is very nice. And I didn't have to test out the side airbags. ;-)!
I think active safety has to be at least as important as passive safety (CR rates the safety of cars on based on both active and passive features) which places these cars far above their Honda and Toyota competitors. Maybe the Altima comes close.
BTW, saw 2 GT sedans today- one silver, one atlantic blue, both with spoilers. Very nice looking, I might say. ;-)
Drive carefully
tom
Peace.
Smart, eh?
ESP will react after the weight shifting and you fishtail, hopefully quickly enough to catch it (good luck!). I dropped the throttle too quickly on my Miata and did a 180 quicker that I could say "whoops".
Is ESP quick enough? Maybe. Maybe not.
Is VDC quick enough? Yes, because it shifts power to the front axle and behaves like a FWD car in that situation (understeer), so you don't wag your tail. There is stability control on top of VTD just in case, but you might not even need it.
Another situation - say you're pulling up a pair of jet skis on a wet boat ramp. Hey, live a little. Let a guy dream.
Any how. The VW starts with the default power split. Weight shifts to the rear so it's likely the front wheels will spin. The torsen may actually be useless here if there is no traction to the front tires, but ESP will use the brakes to shift up to 67% of the power to the rear axle. My guess is you'll hear a little wheel spin. The sytems has to make a mistake first, then it can correct it (albeit quickly).
The VDC has sensors and knows you're going uphill, so it has already sent power to the rear axle, up to 100%, since it doesn't have the limitation of VW's system.
You pull up the ramp without any drama, quietly, no wheelspin. It doesn't have to make a mistake before it can correct it.
Smart.
-juice
On one hand, I do enjoy having a car that no one else, but on the other, I would like seeing sales pick up at some point. I seem to remember a couple years ago seeing more RSX's by this point after they were introduced.
As usual demand is regional, though.
-juice
I didn't know the 2.5i had a dual exaust too. Unless you see the hood scoop or the wheels, it's hard to tell them apart at a distance.
tom
But then it would be hard to justify why a VDC costs almost double what the 2.5i costs.
-juice
Just curious.
-juice
Bob
It used to be 3 to 1, though, now I bet it's more like 2 to 1.
-juice
In 07/03 appx 71% of all Legacies sold were OB's
In 07/04 appx 68% of all Legacies sold were OB's.
My calcs based on media.subaru.com numbers.
67% would be 2 to 1, again almost exactly.
What do I win? LOL
-juice
--------------------------
Edmunds Retail TMV trade on your Forester and Miata on an 04 Odyssey at Invoice.
Welcome to the dark side.
~alpha
PS- Our Sube is Regal Blue. Damn, that color is GREAT on this car. For me, its gotta be the Regal, the Black, or on the GTs... that is a great red... whats it called?
Hey, I contributed to that 68% in July! :-)
Ken
I'm at 953 miles, 20.1 mpg avg. I did a little preemptive sportshifting to get ready for the party at 1000 miles. WOW! Nice to have a fast Outback.
I do hear a variable hum noise from about 45mph on up (but no vibration). Hopefully it's a wheel/tire out of balance (or perhaps the tires are that noisy). Part of me suspects a bad wheel bearing but that would seem low probability. Given my previous experience with Subarus coming from the factory with unbalanced wheels/tires, that seems more likely.
Believe it or not, I was going to take the car to Firestone to have all the wheels balanced, but they cannot do a dynamic balance on wheels with stick-on weights!! Huh?!? They could do a static balance, but that would likely be much worse than the factory balance job. So, I am in search of another tire shop. My local Subaru dealer has never done good balance jobs, so I am not going there.
Craig
Hope your Legacies and Outbacks are going well.
I have just hit 1200 miles and averaging about 18-19mpg overall. High of 25mpg on a 300km round trip at 100km/h. Low of about 16mpg round town driving.
Car is proving good with no issues, except a few (expected) marks on the taupe upholstery.
A couple of points/questions. An Australian 4wd magazine called Overlander tested the Outback 3.0R (without VDC) recently and highlighted that it performed well on sand (due to light construction), but that it was not so good on rough trails because the car would cock diagonally opposite wheels which created wheelspin. I thought modern cars could distribute torque to individual wheels if necessary, but I guess I am wrong?
Does VDC solve this problem?
Secondly - someone posted recently to point out a blind spot - so despite looking in your mirrors, a car behind you to your left or right stays out of sight. I know this is generally a problem in cars, but I too have noticed this as a specifically bad problem in the '05 Outback. You really need to do a full swivel around and triple check your rear three-quarter before you change lanes. Can make ducking in and out a bit slow or risky, depending on your driving approach.
FYI - the result of the article mentioned above - "If you really want a sporty and fun drive, the Outback is the only choice. The Outback also offers refinement, excellent fit and finish, is handy in town and tours well." But they note poor touring range, generally an issue in Australia where any trip into the outback does require 1000km fuel capacity. The winner was the Toyota Highlander (again). "No, we don't like its uninspiring on-road dynamics, but it offers excellent drivetrain refinement, good practicality, impressive build quality and solid performance."
So no difference there to other tests, then. I think the Highlander is ugly and boring to drive, so we didn't even bother testing it.
Finally - anybody taken their '05 Outback off-road? We have been on some muddy trails, but nothing worse than deep bumps I guess. Fun on the slippery clay roads we get here though!
- Aussie Outback
I thought the MT shifter on the XT was very good, but not fantastic (say compared to the shifter on my WRX or a good Honda MT). In contrast the 5EAT was really impressive. As someone who has always preferred MT, it was kind of interesting to gravitate towards the 5EAT. I'm glad I went that route.
Craig