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Mazda MX-Flexa / Mazda5

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Comments

  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I looked it up: the Mazda5 is based on Ford's new C1 platform, shared by the Volvo S40/V50, Euro Focus, and Mazda3/5.
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I think the monocabs will do better than the Expo/Summit/Axxess/Odyssey era for a few reasons:

     

    Demographics: there are more young buyers in the mid '00s than in the early '90s when the first round of monocabs came out. There are also more 'active elderly' types who want a tall wagon for ease of entry/exit.

     

    Design Acceptance: In the early '90s, young people still liked coupes and sports cars. Now they seem to prefer hatches, sport wagons, mini SUVs, and crossovers, etc. They have grown up with minivans/SUVs around them and are accustomed to the higher seating position and the benefits of rear hatch design. Remember all that lifestyle marketing stuff. Consequently, the Mazda5 may look like a sleek verson of a van/SUV, not a lumpy, overgrown version of a sedan like the early monocabs.

     

    Pricing: the bottom line is the bottom line, and priced between the 3 and the 6, the 5 offers great value. Some of those early monocabs cost the same (Axxess) or more (Odyssey) than domestic minivans, so the mass market said "where's the value?" That was an era when the yen was rising against the dollar and they couldn't pass the increase on to consumers.

     

    Need more proof: the PT Cruiser is essentially the same concept (tall wagon on a compact platform). It's more of a styling exercise, and sales have waned as the market has lost interest in the styling, but it consistently delivers good volume (108,000 units in '04) because it offers a measure of practicality, interesting styling and a good price.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    remember folks...this is a rather low volume product for the USA.

     

    So trying to compare it's potential sales to high volume vehicles isnt exactly accurate.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    wasn't sure if you were still browsing the MPV threads, so I'll post a link to a question I had: subearu, "MY2000+ Mazda MPV (Vans Board)" #7616, 24 Jan 2005 9:02 pm

     

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    audi8q: do you know the forecast for sales volume? Just curious. I bet it's modest.

     

    -juice
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I'm hearing around 20K per year....but I'm not sure if that includes all of North America or just the US.
  • acerguyacerguy Member Posts: 9
    "I'm actually in the market for one right now and had my eyes on the VW Touran until now. I don't need (or really want)to deal with the massive size of the Ody, Sienna, T&C, etc on a daily basis. These allow my family to travel safely and comfortably, have ample cargo room, plus the ability to carry one or two of our kids friends if needed. I would never expect to seat adults in the 3rd seat or else we would definitely buy something bigger. I hope these catch on in the US, because I believe they are a viable alternative to the large minivans, SUV, pick-ups, etc. Bigger does not always mean better. "

     

    This is EXACTLY where I'm at. I have seen Tourans in person and think that they would be just the ticket....not too big but being able to tuck an extra kid in the back (safely) every now and then would be great. I have my doubts that VW will bring the Touran over...at least not with a manual transmission. I have heard rumors that they *might*. We'll see. In the meantime, the Mazda5 sound perfect. I can't wait to check it out in person. And if they can make some bits spill over from the expected "Mazdaspeed" Mazda 3...well that would just be icing on the cake!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I hope they can sell 20k per year. Noone else has been able to market a small MPV successfully, remember the Expo and Expo LRV? The Stanza wagon? The Civic Wagovan?

     

    Let's see if Mazda can pull it off. It's by far the best styled so far.

     

    Europe has a lots of small vans, like the Citreon Xsara Picasso, Renault Megane Scenie, Opel Zafira and Meriva, etc.

     

    -juice
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "Let's see if Mazda can pull it off. It's by far the best styled so far."

     

    I still think they may be a few ponies short.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    It amazes me that car makers have no problem with 7 SUV's in their lineups, but getting them to offer a smaller minivan is next to impossible. I am glad Mazda is at least giving the choice. Maybe they can perfect the options and versions before the competition comes out with a model.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Someone may have posted this earlier, but what's the projected curb weight of the M5? And is traction/stability control part of the equation?
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    I don't think anything has been confirmed but I'm hearing rumours of 3,200 or 3,300 lbs. No idea about traction control. It would make sense if they aren't offering AWD.
  • mbadjurambadjura Member Posts: 4
    Yep - the URL is here: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101506

    Let's hope for much less! Nothing in the brochure of traction control.
  • starlightmicastarlightmica Member Posts: 58
    Dynamic stability control (but not traction control) is mentioned in the US press release, but doesn't say if it's standard or available on the base Sport, or only on the uplevel Touring:

     

    http://www.triplezoom.com/news/publish/printer_284.shtml

     

    Slightly off topic: Mazda has some competition in Asia from the Toyota Isis, a similarly sized vehicle. It seats 7 and appears (I can't read Japanese) to have a whole bunch of neat options including CVT, AWD, keyless entry, dual power sliding doors, power hatch open/close, navigation system/backup camera, parking sensors, and VSC (stability control). Exterior styling is clunky compared to the 5. Web site is in Japanese, just click randomly:

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/isis/

     

    I wouldn't mind getting the Isis instead of the Mazda5 but don't think it stands a chance of being sold in North America, but you never know.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Eek, Isis almost looks like a Saturn.

     

    -juice
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Better than the Isis would be the Wish. Based on the Corolla, it is like an up-sized Matrix. With swing out doors and a 2-3-2 seating configuration, it would be perfect for me. I like the styling very much - it looks hot in black.

     

    Given the gargantuan size of the Sienna, it would fit the void perfectly. However I could see Toyota thinking that the Matrix was enough. Toyota makes 5 SUVs but one minivan. Too bad.

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/wish/grade_val/images- /grva_401.jpg

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/wish/grade_val/images- /grva_301.jpg

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/wish/grade_val/images- /grva_501.jpg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Now that looks much better. 4 conventional doors, too.

     

    -juice
  • starlightmicastarlightmica Member Posts: 58
    Agreed - the Wish is a sleek little vehicle, an older design with fewer bells & whistles than the Isis which was introduced last fall. It does come in a LHD version, unlike the Isis, not that it's more likely to come to these shores.

     

    From their web site, Toyota makes at least 8 different minivans/MPV's available in Japan: Estima (+Hybrid), Alphard (+Hybrid), Wish, Isis, Voxy, Sienta, Noah, Raum, and a couple of more MPV's in Europe: Avensis Verso, Corolla Verso.

     

    You would think they could send another one over here. We have a Sienna and would like a smaller one-box vehicle, too.
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    I have just two kids (two and three years old) but was interested in your logic considering I have a Scion xB as a commuter/hauler/dump car, etc. My wife drives a Passat wagon, so not much help there with the occasional need for more seating.

     

    Are your boys older so you could put one in the front seat of the xB? I ask because the back is tight, as you point out, and could not fit more than two kids unless they don't need child/booster seats. It is a handy package though for most tasks and is not, IMO, underpowered at all. There is plenty of zip for commuting and tons of space for moving stuff.

     

    We're thinking of the 5 as a replacement for the xB or maybe the Passat. My wife is not a huge fan of the little box for a variety of reasons, perceived safety being one of them.

     

    We'll take a look and decide.

     

    Good luck with your choice. It really is very difficult to get seating flexibility w/o going to a mini van or SUV. Mazda deserves enormous credit for bring the 5 to the states.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I wish we could have the wish. 2-3-2 sure is nice.

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/wish/interior/images/- int02_xga.jpg

     

    I don't think the wish has a manual tranny though, so Mazda has the edge in that department.

     

    I would even be happy with a Matrix wagon, or a M3 wagon - just stretched like a real wagon with more luggage space.
  • kaiankaian Member Posts: 36
    My oldest just turned five, which is still too young for the front seat. In California the law was recently amended and now children must be in booster or other restraint until at least six years / 60 pounds, and everything I've read states you want kids in the back as long as possible.

     

    When our third child is born in August Ill need one rear infant seat, one booster, and my middle child will be four and either in a front facing seat or booster depending on how big he gets by then. Im expecting a worse case of one rear, one front, one booster.

     

    I test drove an xB a couple of months ago before we knew we would be expecting a third child, and for two boys things were fine. At that time my main concern was leg room so the kids could stretch legs without kicking me. ;)

     

    I did notice the xB seemed slightly underpowered compared to the Accord, but I didnt really test that out as much as I should have (merging onto highways and such), but thats really only a minimal concern as I think itll be fine for me. I also didnt pay attention to the back hip space because I was thinking only two not three kids. Even if I had thought of that, the two car seats were using now arent optimized for space anyway and Id need to replace them anyway to get three across.

     

    From my calculations, I *could* get them all in an xB with smart buying of car seats using this car seat measurements site as a guide, but it still would be pretty tight. My main concern is that I could get three seats in there but it would be hard to buckle the booster in properly.

     

    I asked on the Scion Life forum if others did three across to see how much torment that would be for me, and I didn't get a great response. I suspect most people just come to the conclusion that three car seats across can't be done on the xB based on the average car seat sizes rather than trying to get the smallest width seats to make it work. And those who might do such a thing probably don't bother to hang out in enthusiast forums.

     

    Right now I plan to wait for the Mazda5 and decide then, and I'm leaning to the Mazda5 at the moment. Even if I get all the seats across the xB, having three kids so close to each other is like asking them to start fights.

     

    On the other hand, carrying the kids in the second commuter car should only be for short trips (picking up from day care and Kindergarten) while the real kid trips should happen in my wife's Sienna. From that angle, the xB might do the job adequately enough and would be cheaper. If I test drive both vehicles and like the xB better and I can get all three to fit in it, then why not save some money? :)
  • kaiankaian Member Posts: 36
    " We're thinking of the 5 as a replacement for the xB or maybe the Passat. My wife is not a huge fan of the little box for a variety of reasons, perceived safety being one of them. "

     

    I wanted to separate this from my other comment to ask you about the variety of reasons your wife doesn't like the xB. You mention safety, and I know the xB can't get side air bags, but other than that what safety issues does she have?

     

    And what are the other reasons she doesn't like it? I know the major reasons I'm considering the xB include the great MPG, Toyota reliability, the short exterior length for things like parallel parking, and the overall comfort of sitting in it.
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    I don't know about three kiddie seats of any kind across the back seat of an xB. I'd be impressed if even the smallest seats would fit. The legroom on the other hand is unbelievable and no the kids feet can't reach my seatback. Heaven.

     

    I don't think my search was as extensive as yours for a minivan/SUV alternative that could seat more than two kids in even minimal comfort for those rare, short trips. My need isn't as great either. I finally agreed with the advice that you should buy the car that meets your needs 95% percent of the time rather than the one with features you will rarely use.
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    She mostly dislikes the looks, the lack of power (her opinion) and says it is a "tin can." By that I think she is referring to her worries about its safety and bases that comment on the sound the rear doors make when you close them. They do seem pretty flimsy.

     

    Her main reasons for the buying the Passat were safety and performance. Mind you, if the turbo Forester had been available when she was looking, that would now be sitting in the driveway instead. The Passat has side curtain airbags for rear passengers, which the xB obviously lacks. I'm not sure they make much difference for little kids in a crash.

     

    She also seems to believe that something so small and light could not possibly be safe enough transport the kids. Apparently it's OK for the husband, though:) The Passat is a tank by comparison.

     

    I guess it's mainly "feel" v. fact or logic. I think the box is plenty safe and agree with you that it has many benefits. I would add looks to your list of positives. It's just a great little urban runner and perfect for my commute. With all of the snow in Boston lately the streets are even narrower than usual. The box slips right between lanes of cars and snowbanks.
  • kaiankaian Member Posts: 36
    "I don't know about three kiddie seats of any kind across the back seat of an xB. I'd be impressed if even the smallest seats would fit."

     

    It's possible mathematically in theory, but I'm a bit skeptical too until I actually do it. We'll see how it goes. :)

     

    "I would add looks to your list of positives. It's just a great little urban runner and perfect for my commute."

     

    Yeah, that's a reason for me too, but that's so subjective I don't mention it much, but I like the idea of having something that stands out a bit. The Mazda5 is pretty distinctive too though I think.

     

    Most of my research has been online which makes looking easy. Since I don't have to get a new car til August and I want to see the Mazda5 I can take my time and research other options. It might seem extensive but I just copy/paste things I learn into little note files. :) There's really not that many cars that have interested me much, but part of that is my budget so I'm not looking at $30k+ cars, and since I don't care for SUVs that eliminates something like 80 percent of the American market. :)
  • thefafthefaf Member Posts: 12
    Like kaian, I'm considering these and have similar needs and wants. One of them is electronic stability control which is standard on both of these.

     

    http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.- cfm/article_page_order_int/8/article_id_int/251

     

    I have two kids and currently drive a 2000 Protege LX/5 spd. It has 103 HP, (5 less than the xB) weighs 2450 lb. (50 less than the xB) and is geared a bit higher. It is quick around town and slows a bit in high gear on the highway on the biggest New England hills. My point, if you are aware of this, the xB should have enough power. But the extra seats, more power, and side and curtain airbags on the M5 are tempting. But it's going to cost $4K more and fuel economy will be about 5-7 mpg worse. I love getting 33 mpg in my Protege.

    As for 3 kids across in the xB, if you use a simple platform booster for your 5 year old, (my kids are 6 and 2), and put it in the middle, it just might work.

    If you need a car by August, if there are any M5's out by then, it may be hard to find a 5 spd.

    I will echo what others have said. I love having the opportunity to have a manual trans. in a car like this.
  • kaiankaian Member Posts: 36
    "...the xB should have enough power. But the extra seats, more power, and side and curtain airbags on the M5 are tempting. But it's going to cost $4K more and fuel economy will be about 5-7 mpg worse. [...] As for 3 kids across in the xB, if you use a simple platform booster for your 5 year old, (my kids are 6 and 2), and put it in the middle, it just might work."

     

    Thanks for the comments, and the quoted section above is a great summary of my own thinking. I suspect you're right on the fuel economy difference, but those numbers aren't out yet for the Mazda5, but I know it won't beat the xB. It might be competitive enough I won't be bothered by it.

     

    As for the manual, I'm tempted to get manual in whatever vehicle I get, buy my wife never learned and doesn't seem interested in learning now. That's not a big deal as I'll be the usual driver of the vehicle, but it's one of those "what if"s I consider. "What if she needs to drive it for some reason?" So I may just get automatic.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Hey, how many miles are on your Protege? I'm driving a 2000 ES 5-speed and just hit 88,000 miles this week. (Not one problem since brand new, btw -- good ol' Mazda reliability.)

     

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    "but it's basically an Echo wagon, with humble underpinnings."

     

    ... and Toyota just pulled the Echo-o-o-o from the U.S.!

     

    Meade
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the xB is much, much better executed, FWIW. But it's the same platform. And priced accordingly.

     

    Mazda3s is a much better starting point than the Echo, you'll agree. It'll also cost more.

     

    -juice
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    The biggest knock to the Echo was its sloppy handling. The xB does not suffer from this same problem. The underpinnings on the xB keep it pretty tightly planted for such an tall, short vehicle.

     

    Both the Mazda3 5-door and xB are on my short list of possible replacements for my '01.5 Passat when the lease comes due this June.

     

    The Mazda3 interior reminds me a lot of my Passat. I like the way the Mazda3 handles, looks, the fuel economy, and the price isn't too bad either. The advantage that the xB has superior interior passenger room and the price is significantly lower. I just wish the xB had a larger fuel tank to extend it's range.
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    The xB has enough power almost all the time. The only exception is, as you say, on those long hills on the highway and only then with a load, really. Having said that, spending a lot of time in the xB on the highway is not something I would want to do considering the noise and fairly harsh ride. It's just fine for the commute and around town.

     

    I'm still skeptical about fitting three seats in the back, though. It would be awful snug.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mazda must've hidden their stand at the Philly show, because now that I think back I don't even remember seeing it!

     

    Maybe they were in the middle of the floor, and we walked around the edges. Didn't spend much time there, really.

     

    Shucks. I can't even tell you if they had a 5 there.

     

    -juice
  • bmclaughlin1bmclaughlin1 Member Posts: 19
    my wife and I didn't see the 5 at the Philly show either.
  • thefafthefaf Member Posts: 12
    I've got about 78K on my Protege, but I now will be putting on about 30K a year. It's been very dependable. The 1.6L doesn't leak or burn a drop of oil, seems bulletproof. It's my first Mazda and I would consider another one.

     

    Mark
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,840
    The Mazda display is always downstairs, with Kia, Hyundai, Suzuki, Mitsu, and, for some reason, Porsche!

     

    They also have the gizmo booths (waxs, shammies, etc) and stands that sell model cars, plus th eclassics displayed, and they had some nice stuff.

     

    But, I did not see the 5. They did have a MSP6 though, which looked nice.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    Odman..think you missed the nicest Wish of all the 2.0Z..

     

    http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/wish/grade_val/index1- .html

     

    I'd take one in silver!
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Thanks vcarreras, I just clicked till I found a few with good angles. Even in blue it looks good.

     

    I really hope Toyota and Honda follow Mazda's lead into this segment. It would increase awareness of the whole segment and all would sell more.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, OK, we never made it down stairs. I forget there are 3 levels there.

     

    -juice
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Mazda Japan issued a press release yesterday on the first Premacys (Mazda5's) going on sale in Japan. There's a lot of features and specs here too; keep in mind our model is the "23S."

     

    http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200502/0207e.html

     

    Note the curb weight; adding 10kg for the sliding doors (as required) makes this vehicle weigh 3,307 lbs. The Mazda3S wagon weighs 2,857 lbs., so this baby's about 450 pounds heavier. I'm not too concerned -- the 3S wagon I borrowed for a weekend was extremely fast when I drove it around our area's country twisties with two passengers. Our combined weight was about 600 pounds, so that made the 3S wagon a combined 3,457 pounds -- and it had NO problems zooming quite smilingly. :)

     

    Meade
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    Toyota and Honda may be waiting to see how the Mazda 5 does in the NA market. My hopes are that Toyota redesignes the Matrix into the WISH and Honda brings the Stream/Latitude here. Both powered by their 2.4 liter 4 cylinder. Hopefully offering 5 speed either in manual or automatic. I really hope the M5 sells well so that Toyota/Honda compete.
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    Here's this:

     

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Articles/articleId=104625

     

    A couple of years back there was a 5 car sports wagon test in Japan which matched the WISH/Stream/Premacy/Zefria?(opel) and one more. What I got out of the article (in Japanese) was that the WISH and Stream outclassed the others.

     

    Wonder how this new Premacy would do?
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    Found it!

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/special/7seaterminivan/wish_01.- asp
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 52,840
    A good comparison would be to the 6 hatch. That comes with the 2.3l engine. If it weighs around the same as the 5, you shold get a decent idea of the performance to expect.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Funny you posted the link to the Japanese review of "last year's" Premacy -- I went back to their home page and found an article with some NICE INTERIOR PHOTOS of the new one!

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/photo_impression/mazda_premacy/

     

    Meade
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    Toyota Wish:

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/photo_impression/toyota_wish/

     

    Honda Elysion:

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/photo_impression/honda_elysion/

     

    Honda JDM Odyssey:

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/photo_impression/honda_odyssey/
  • odmanodman Member Posts: 309
    Great posts, vcarreras. I still like the Wish most of all. The new Ody has an angry face and is too low now. The Elysion looks odd, given the new NA Odyssey. I used to like the Stream quite a bit and had high hopes for it coming but it looks like it won't.

     

    Don't read too much into the Japanese fuel economy data -- they are probably using a very different testing cycle.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    LOL, look where the shifter is!!!

     

    http://www.carview.co.jp/magazine/photo_impression/toyota_wish/03- .asp

     

    Talk about arm pains!

     

    Meade
  • starlightmicastarlightmica Member Posts: 58
    as does the NA market Honda Odyssey, too. If you're going to go through engineering to move the shifter there, why not make it small and stubby so it doesn't take up much space, such as in the current Prius?

     

    I thought the Honda Stream was being discontinued and to be replaced by the FR-V/Edix.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    That seems to be the new design rage among all manufacturers.
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