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Volkswagen Jetta 2006+
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Comments
Also, thanks for clarifying that you can get the stability control on the Value Edition- this is something not readily shown on the brochure I picked up yesterday, and the Value Edition I was in did not have it.
~alpha
Off topic, but it would be nice if Honda brought over their 2.2l diesel for the Accord.
The goal of the new Jetta is not to be a hot rod in 2.5 form. The goal of the 2.5 is to have a car with superior road-holding, handling, safety, and fit-and-finish, while improving on several MK4 Jetta weak points, notably space and power:weight. The goal is also to appeal to a broader range of buyers than the Jetta A4. We lost a lot of clients on the old car since it was just plain too small. We lost some other clients because features like SAT RAD, power seats, etc were not available. We lost some more because the 2.0L 4 cyl car with 4 speed automatic FELT underpowered to drive. Regardless of paper numbers, the new 2.5L that I drove did not FEEL underpowered in any circumstance where I drove it. I'm confident that the 2.0T engine soon to be released will entertain those who want above-average power.
Oh, and by the way, regarding being able to buy a used 3-series BMW for the price of a Jetta...hop you live in Phoenix. My friend and co-worker in the office next to me leased a 3-series last fall. Not long ago, we had 2-3 inches of snow and a little ice, actually a very, very mild snow. He tells me that he's never driven a car with such poor bad-weather handling. According to him, the car is useless in any sort of snow or ice. He indicates to me that the traction control basically stops the car from going anywhere. He now hates the car due the lack of any semblance of foul-weather capability. He's looking to sell the car. Admittedly, the car drives like a champ on a dry road! But, at least here in Kansas City, we have snow, ice, and rain from time to time, and the car is just miserable under those circumstances. And, his car has the leatherette interior, which to me looks incredibly cheap and unbefitting a BMW, not to mention it feels like plastic! ;>)
Anyway, alpha, thanks for your feedback from your Auto Show, it is interesting for someone in my position to hear.
Matt
I have not seen the new Jetta in person, to me it looks fine in pictures. I agree with you that there was nothing special about the styling of the outgoing model...I would not call it ugly, it was just a car with an innocuous appearance...as the new one appears to be. I don't really know what the Jetta III looked like.
The 2.0 seemed underpowered to me even with a manual. I test drove one in a used ~'96 Jetta 4-5 years ago and felt it was very sluggish when accelerating from a stop.
~alpha
The goals of the new Jetta are obvious, and VW should be commended for looking to resolve the issues. Personally, I think VW lost a lot of clients on the last Jetta because it was around forever. If you did two year leases, you could have leased the same basic car THREE TIMES (that was stated in BusinessWeek, I cant claim that thought as original). VW couldnt have had a bigger Jetta at the lat go-round, either, as that would have made the Passat redundant. My feeling is that people wanting a larger Jetta probably went to the Passat.
About the BMW- they're not know for all-weather capability. But, that's why they're offered with AWD. Coupled with snow tires, I doubt it would be as horrible as your colleague states. BMW does provide the choice, after all. Does VW offer a Jetta 4Motion? Maybe you lost sales because of that?
I wish VW success, as I really liked the last gen-Jetta, but for a redesign, I'm not impressed.
~alpha
Agreed, the old Jetta had reliability issues. However, they were blown out of proportion statistically due to two major problems which occurred over a relatively short span: window regulators and 1.8T ignition coils. As far as the new Jetta goes, time will tell if improvements have been made.
Let's think about how many people in the real world do 2-year leases. I'll bet it is less than 10% of all lessees. The vast majority of leases are 36 or 48 months. You could use the same logic on most models of cars, if you use the 2-year lease rule. If you had leased a Honda Civic every 2 years, you aren't changing much either. This makes no sense for Business Week to use this as a comment, since nobody ( relatively ) does a 2-year lease.
I know BMW are available with AWD. But, you won't find too many used 330xi sedans in the Jetta price range ( mid 20's ) I'd think. The AWD BMWs are priced way, way above the Jetta, and the Jetta was never intended to compete with a 3xi. Of course, you run into fuel economy issues, insurance cost issues, maintanence cost issues, etc, when comparing a used BMW 3x with a new Jetta. I don't think the used 3x compares favorably, or would be cross-shopped by many at all in the real world. A person shopping a 3x would in all likelihood look at a Passat 4-motion, not a Jetta. I really don't think VW lost a significant number of sales due to lack of AWD, at all. VW offers the choice in Passats.
Although the 3-series is not known for all-weather abiility, such ability is a priority for the vast majority of drivers. Also, most drivers don't need or desire AWD or desire to pay for it. In the current market, a FWD car will be what appeals to the distinct majority.
Understood that you are not impressed with the redesign, and I respect your opinion. I've owned Mk1, 2, 3, and a couple Mk4 Jettas personally, from 1983 to 2003 models. I'll tell you, having driven the Mk5, it blows away any of my previous Jettas in 95% of areas, no contest.
We'll see what the public thinks when they get to DRIVE the cars!
Matt
-Andrew L
And I NEVER once said anything about the Jetta's driving dynamics, and stated numerous times that this is likely to be the strong point of the vehicle.
About the BW comment- I believe it was actually a VW rep who made that statement, commenting on allowing the Jetta to remain essentially unchanged for too long. I dont have the issue anymore so I cannot say for sure, but if Im in the library studying anytime soon, I'll be sure to check it out for you.
I made the BMW comment to prove a point that maybe, just maybe the German driving experience isnt worth the tradeoffs of the new Jetta- and those looking for the experience might do better to check out a certified pre-owned 3 seriers. I dont think they are that hard to come by, even one with AWD.
"I'll tell you, having driven the Mk5, it blows away any of my previous Jettas in 95% of areas, no contest."
Im not arguing that. No doubt it is better. Im arguing that it may not justify purchase against competitors that offer similar amounts of safety, room, sytle, handling, but with better efficiency/power and at more attractive prices and better reliability.
Its not like I'm out of left field on this one- have you seen the prelim reviews from MT and Car and Driver?
I respect your opinion as well, I'm just disappointed because the compact/midsize 4 door is where my money will most likely go when I next purchase in a year or 2.
~alpha
cars are not yet commodities and just because two cars have the same features doesn't mean they're the equal of each other. i'll be sure to check out the new sonata but something tells me that new jetta will be a superior engineered car.
i guess it depends on your priorities.
you wouldn't happen to know when the 2.0t model is suppose to be available?
this is the car that will standout from the competition!
i drove the 2.5l 5cyl this morning...really up to my expectations!!! it was a base model,but the ride is amazing,the new 6 speed tranny is quite good but the best thing about this car is the new rear suspension,the ride is firm,the car handles like a real vw....i am really impress by the new interior (really big)
the engine has a beautiful sond a bit like the old 5 cyl. audi very special...and feels faster than what all the reviews said!!!i would say o-60 sec in 7.5 to 8 seconds....nice
what i didn't like is the 15 inch hub caps...but again entry level should be about the car not the wheels,
final first drive note 8 on 10
very good car
there hasn't been any actual instrument testing done on the car from the reviews i've read. i believe all these "first drive" reviews are just rehashing VW's claimed 0-60 acceleration figure of 9.1 seconds.
As for the interior: it was nice, but it wasn't that nice. I also sat in an Accord LX and a Cobalt LT, both cheaper than this Jetta, and I would say both of those cars had at least equally good interior quality and appearance. I would say the Accord had similar appearance and maybe slightly better quality than the Jetta, and the Cobalt had slightly worse quality but slightly better appearance (what can I say, I'm a sucker for fake wood.) Considering that those cars cost $2000 less than the Jetta, I know which one I wouldn't buy.
The one thing that surprised me in a positive direction was the size of the Jetta's trunk. It's positively huge, which is a nice plus.
Anyway, the performance and handling on the new Jetta had better be unbelievable or they will have a tough time selling them at that price. VW is no longer operating in an environment where small American cars are a joke and Japanese cars are markedly less stylish than VWs.
-Andrew L
i love my accords and spend much time defending them against the naysayers but i would say the jetta's interior has a slightly higher quality interior. and the accord's interior ambiance is highly regarded with only the passat being considered better at these prices.
i don't consider the jetta's interior perfect however. it's using the same carpet as the previous model which seems out of place with the rest of the car. and what's up with all those bottoms for the stereo?
i don't want to offend anybody but i think i'm going to with the next sentence. it's a little arrogant for one to say a car will not sell because one personally believes the car is bland looking.
what's disturbing to me are some early reports of high wind/road noise at speed and an annoying sounding engine that feels sluggish. i think we can all agree that these are not desirable traits and this may be what hurts sales. this may be okay with a neon but not in a $22k Jetta!
this car is still in a class by itself among small cars for features and quality (not the reliability aspect of quality obviously). VW desperately needs to turn around their reliability. i'll expect glitches with the new model but they'll need to get fixed right away and stay fixed!
the current jetta is the only car that i know that started out well but got worse reliability wise as the model years went by.
I traded it in after 2 years for a Hyundai Elantra, in part because I was actually AFRAID to power down the side windows for fear that they would not come back up again! How can you enjoy a car that has great power, rich quality materials, and unique and pleasing features when you look at the power window switch with apprehension every time you press it?
The Elantra has spent way less time in the service department. The only reliability issues have been a stuck CD in the head unit and some prematurely burned out headlight bulbs. True, the Elantra is not as fun to drive as the GTI, but I don't have the ulcers anymore that seem to come with owning a VW.
I saw the new Jetta at the auto show and was somewhat impressed with the little nuances and features that make a VW unique. However, I most likely will not buy one. You get one chance to make a good impression, and VW failed me the first time around.
-Andrew L
And thats been my point regarding the new Jetta- an interior with strong materials quality and fit and finish is no longer as unique as it was in 1999 when the current debuted. And that isnt going to be enough to earn this Jetta respect.
~alpha
well we'll have to agree to disagree on this. no doubt general motors have improved their interiors but they're still no where near VW's or even Honda's standards. i'll say the buick lacrosee has its merits though.
automakers may get some of their parts from the same suppliers but it doesn't follow they would provide the same level of interior component quality. the automakers are involved with the design process of these parts and dictate the quality tolerances.
And that isn't going to be enough to earn this Jetta respect
alpha01:
perhaps not with you, but with me and others it does. it's still a level above the others IMO.
I know that a similarly optioned Mazda 3 is significantly cheaper and has a smaller rear seat... a similarly equipped Mazda 6 V6 is about the same as a 2.5L Package 2. Oh, and it offers a 6 speed automatic.
And yes, of course the drive does weigh heavily- and I'm guessing this Jetta will drive quite nicely. Repeatedly, I've noted that, in my opinion, it would HAVE to be the drive that seals the deal for any non-die hard Jetta loyalist- on paper and in person, this Jetta does not offer strong value OR somewhat unique, appeals-to-youth styling (as did the last generation). Nor does it have the interior materials quality lead that it once did. Nor does VW have reliability on its side. From initial reports, the 2.5L is not very refined, either. The rear seat is nicely sized, though, as is the trunk, and the front end is attractive if a bit stately (perhaps not what this market is looking for?)
Note, I'm stating this all as my opinion, as I know its not fact.. but in the reviews so far, which have met the new Jetta with tepid praise.... theres not much to be enthusiastic about either.
I'm sure its a very good car. I just don't think its nearly as distinct as the 1999 when it debuted. I dont see the competitive advantages. I remember thinking as a senior in High School, wow, Id really like to have that car one day. Then the Jetta just kept getting older. Not that I could have afforded one 2 years ago, but I guess given the time lapse between now and my senior year, I expected a lot more.
But maybe its the lenses through which Im looking at this car. Is this really the new Jetta? Or is it supposed to be the new version of the old Passat? Does VW know? Maybe I'd like it better if I thought it to be aimed at an older clientele. If this car was aimed at waxing-35 or 40-somethings, I think I might like it a bit better. But, I can't shake the notion that this vehicle, whether I like it or not... is aimed at people like myself.... young professionals, good income, with decent but not (yet..lol) extravagant lifestyles. A great car for commuting, making the trip back up to school for Homecoming, going to the beach with a few friends, etc. All things for which the last Jetta perfectly fit the mold. I can easily see either of the two aformentioned Mazdas filling that role much more nicely, but again, my opinion.
Will this redesign be enough for VW? It wont be if its not enough for consumers.
~alpha
The new one's styling? More like the mix of a Camry and Corolla! Not, what I had hoped. I can't help but wonder how the same company that produced the Bently Continental GT, the new Audi A6 could have let that funky looking little car get past them without someone yelling "foul". I hate to call it ugly but it doesn't miss it by much! One the post mentions that perhaps VW is going up market for an older better funded crowd. Let's hope! In fact, they need to look for the much older with failing eyesight crowd. I'm 42 and I'm not looking for a Subuaru WRX "over the top" boy-racer look. However, I'm looking for a little more than the benign appliance Toyota Camry/Corolla look. I agree that VW has lost some of its edge in interiors because the bar has finally been raised(thank god)however, they are still the standard that everyone else aspires to reach. It was this fanatical commitment to interior design and quality and the clean, understated, luxury car looks where what made the Jetta the success that it was. The reliability and service issues that the Germans can't quite master will always put them at a disadvantage to the Japanese. Now without the styling edge and the interior design having a more level playing field, what will bring the customers back and what will bring in all the new young customers that all car companies need to establish brand loyalty and move them into higher profit vehicles as they get older and make more money. Hopefully, the Jetta is going to drive like a 911 and sip gas like a hybrid. Otherwise, I'm thinking VW's plan for world domination just took a hit. Perhaps, a big one. I hope I don't sound like a VW "hater" because I really am big fan and this is there first misstep in 8 years. Unfortunately, as important as the Jetta is in this market, to see it become the next Mitsubishi Galant will really be sad. I don't think the new Jetta is horrible, it's that VW had hit the ball out of the park over and over again. Now, a single, is just a bit of a letdown.
I wouldn’t buy one now the same way I wouldn’t have bought one a few years ago. I like quirky cars - the Jetta (in addition to being a sedan) has always been too mainstream for me. I think it really hasn’t changed that much at all, some people just had different associations with it, and are just now seeing it for what it is.
The Golf and GTI are a different story.
just my opinion, the mazdas you mentioned will probably not have the solidity of the jetta. they also won't have all of the safety and comfort features of the jetta either. and the interior ambiance of those mazdas fall short of the Jetta (i guess we disagree by what extent though).
i probably think the jetta is a great value because of how i would personally equipped it if i was to get one. that would be a jetta 2.0t (package 2) w/DSG tranny. i'm fairly sure this car would sticker no higher than $28.5k. i can't think of one car that matches up with it at that price (for what i'm looking for anyway).
yes, the 2.5l isn't getting great praise but the 2.0t and DSG are getting it from the Audi A3. maybe that's the vehicle for you! very "stylish".
~alpha
Happend to see a Jetta parked next to a Hyundai Accent. They look pretty similar from the rear.
Just thought that was funny/interesting given all the hoo-ha over the new Jetta (in photos) looking similar to Corolla from the rear.
?
In that they both have taillights? I'm sorry but I dont see much resemblance.
~alpha
My point is I don't see anything that points to a 'Much Worse than Average' rating.
~alpha
FWIW the current Jetta is the same as the Mazda 6 in reliability. The new Jetta will also be about the size of the Mazda 6.
To show how things can change, the Focus is above average for the last two model years (though it is average overall because of previous years).
BUT, I did take a 15 minute drive in a Mazda 3s Auto, with ABS, Side Curtains, Moonroof, and 6 disc CD changer. Sticker: $20,320. The car is quick, with a refined yet fiesty engine note, has incredible steering and a firm but not harsh ride.
Visibility is excellent, and the driver's seat is great, and completely free of vinyl to boot. About the only thing I can think of that is missing from this car is electronic stability control, and even that, given the price, is forgiveable. I will note, however, that the EPA ratings are only slightly better than the Jettas- 24/29. That said, it is lighter than the Jetta, and I'd be hard pressed to believe that it wouldnt clock better than VW's estimated 9.1 seconds to 60.
For people cross shopping the Jetta 2.5L and Mazda 3s equipped as above, I think its going to have to come down to some VW loyalty.
~alpha
~alpha
well anyway, i saw the audi a3 and i think it looks absolutely gorgeous. i think i'm going to forget about that stinkin jetta and get me an audi a3.
it seems like the base audi a3 will have most of the "stuff" that a loaded jetta 2.0t has at about the same price. time will tell.
This has been my point all along. The Jetta seems not to offer a competitive advantage enough to warrant its purchase over that of many other, similarly priced vehicles.
AND
Whats better, Mazda3s or 2.5L Jetta 06???
The new Passat, with same chassis, engine, tranny is supposed to be starting at 24K, although typical equipment will probably be a few $K more.
I don’t see a big difference since they’re sharing almost everything (I guess 2K isn’t a big difference)
22K, for a 200hp German auto just seems cheap; but it just may be my bias (positive) with German autos.
But, if you have a truly __outstanding__ volkswagen dealer to rely on, then you are in better position to jump into a first year car than most of us.
~alpha