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I used the 1.8 along with the 1.8T because I've had research and consultation experience with both engines.
Pardon the defensive tone, but it seems there's always someone here on Edmunds who jumps in and wants to split hairs just for the sake of argument, and I'm NOT interested.
Arguments are for people who can't debate, and I don't get involved in arguments.
And the engine break-in synthetic oil topic....
Is it really a matter of opinion? Is it something that can be debated? No. It either messes up your engine up or it doesn't.
Of course your right - indeed it is NOT fair. Toyota who, in the not too distant past, had a rep for blowing head gaskets and trannys has now become manufacturers of the most reliable vehicles ever built.
I've had 2 VW's with 1.8t's and now have an 03 TDI Jetta wagon.
Niether 1.8t (2000 Passat, 02 GTI) ever used a drop of oil between 5k changes. The Passat had over 60k miles on it and never had one problem. The 02 GTI had the window regulator problem, but never had the coil pack problem - they were replaced proactively under warranty though. They don't come from the factory with synthetic oil, but I'd switch them over at 10k miles.
One thing that VW strongly recommends is to not change the oil on a new VW until 5k miles. I was used to getting it changed at 1k miles on a new car but the VW service guy talked me out of it. I've read the same on VW forums - you run the risk of the rings not seating properly if the oil is changed before 5k.
The 03 TDI comes from the factory with synthetic - I've had the Jetta wagon for a year and a half and over 20k miles without a single issue. Several of my friends own VW's and none of them are problematic - outside of the window regulator and coil pack issue - which was addressed a long time ago.
I just ordered my third 1.8t - an 05 Audi A4 Avant 6 speed with the Ultrasport package, it's replacing our 01 X5 - another amazingly dependable vehicle. My X5 has had exactly one warranty repair in 3 years, the backlit buttons on the steering wheel failed to light up - other than that it's had no problems either.
All vehicles have their issues (Honda had the automatic xmission in the Accord, Saturn has the oil-burning in ALL of their engines, Toyota had the sludge... etc)
I guess those of us that are happy with our VWs are too busy enjoying the 'long way home' in our wonderful German roadcars to spend much time here in Edmunds. ;-)
Fairness only works on the kindergarten recess playground - business is business.
Before you or anyone else asks more questions about the suit, I'll let you know that I won't discuss it or provide a link, not even in private e-mail, because that would conflict with Edmunds' rules on soliciting.
I can tell you that I'm the primary consultant on the suit and have testified - can't tell you how to get into it as a client.
Broaden your vision, man! Class Action suits aren't for specific incidents on specific products (at least not in product liability or warranty cases, usually).
I worked at oil change places through high school and college. We did fluid top offs, and we also checked the oil on every car before we changed it, so we could note if it was low on the work order. VWs with the old 1.8L and 2.0L were always low. I thought it was normal for VWs.
I remember when the 99 Jettas came out and we had people bringing them in for oil changes even though VW offered free ones. They were bringing them in because the VW dealers were backed up. I remember one guy with the 2.0L came back for a top off 1000 miles after an oil change after he checked his oil at the gas station nearby. He needed a quart, and I know it wasn't underfilled from the oil change because I did it. Interesting. The engine holds about 4 quarts and VW recommends 5000 mile oil changes. That engine will blow up if you don't check the oil between oil changes.
What's the difference between greedy lawyers and the business execs at VW who are cashing fat bonus checks and stock options for selling overpriced lemons?
There's an easy way for automakers to stop class actions. Make a good product or, if the product has a problem, fix it on your dime, not the customer's.
If automakers did those 2 things, driftracer would have to find another line of work.
Techs were screaming at their service advisors about losing money all day long, so many shops made these visits "less convenient" for the customer and they went to Jiffy Lube...
Ironically, the same action can stop lemon law suits and breach of warranty action - it's a Catch 22 - I wish ALL manufacturers would work harder to eliminate their problematic issues - on the other hand, I know they won't, for bean counter and legal reasons (hurdles), so I don't have to worry about being out of work for a LONG time...
Probably not a big difference.
My point is that the people harmed by the products should get the larger benefit of these class action suits, not the lawyers. The compensation the lawyers rake off the top is way out of proportion to the amount of effort put in.
Now back to the cars...
I'm just curious- were the Vanagon models ever affected or involved in any of this? I know that almost all VWs (including Cabriolet) used the 1.8-liter four in '90, but the Vanagons used the 2.1-liter horizontally-opposed engine. I think that motor was known for blowing head gaskets.
VW dealer near my home also sucks. The earliest possible appointment I can get is always two weeks later, and this is because I didn't buy this car from him. And He wanted to charge me $650 for a CEL on last year, while another independent garage fixed the problem for me with $100.
The advantage of this car is, you feel comfortable driving it. My husband loves it, although its reliability is the pain.
Overall, my suggestion is, if you have another car as backup, and if you are DIY fan, go for it. Otherwise, keep away.
As far as people saying the new model year Jettas won't experience the window problem I would say thats false. My friend got a platinum gray 2003 GLI VR6 and she had her window problem before mine.
After working at a lube shop, I'd have to say that "average" means burning little to no oil. Most regular cars don't really burn any oil.
Can't disagree with you, but if the lawyers lose the class action, they foot the entire bill and don't get paid a dime, so they deserve some profit for the risk taken.
I'm more steamed about the compensation paid to top business execs who are getting ridiculous option packages even when they underperform.
At least the greedy lawyers have to win before they get paid.
Also, you can always opt out of a class action, pay your own lawyer by the hour (fair compensation), hire your own experts and do a lawsuit on your own.
Not trying to imply that you belong in the unemployment line. I'm sure you're worth every penny paid to you and probably more.
From what you're telling me, it sounds like there's some tacit collusion between the class action lawyers and the auto industry.
The class action lawyers get mucho bucks, the auto industry gets some kind of legal cover from lemon law suits and can put an end to their legal liability.
Figures. You can't expect justice when you put auto industry execs and class action lawyers in the same room.
The firm I work for has 3 current CA suits, but also over 5,000 current lemon law/breach of warranty suits - I don't think THEY are giving any slack to ANY manufacturer...
In fact, it's more like a predatory hunt....
Stick with the 2.0 and you'll be fine, but it's still not a car I'd drive without an extended warranty.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/compare.aspx?src=URES
Just click on reliability ratings and punch in the car you are interested in. To some it will be a surprise.
In my case reliability ratings wouldn't be nearly as important if sales and service were on the top of the list for VW. But traditionally studies haven't shown Parts and service to be one of VWs strong suites.
That site leads you to believe that they ALL have engine management problems, which is ridiculous.
No offense to any consumer, but getting my reliability ratings from someone without experience related to the automotive field is just about as reliable as a group of people rating cologne or perfume - to some, a certain fragrance is great, to others, it stinks, but it's the same smell, no matter what.
Take tires, for instance - the Tire Rack has a great rating system if you know nothing about tires and trust total strangers. I'm not dogging their system, because I buy tires from them all the time - I just don't read the ratings.
I just bought a set of tires for my son's car, and it was a size and speed rating I hadn't bought before. I looked at the consumer ratings - right next to an entry from one guy saying "these things are great, they blow away the Micheleins they replaced", the next guy said "these totally suck".
Neither account is subjective, neither has any meat to it, since there were no real test stats, just an opinion from someone who took 15 seconds to blather their thoughts about something they really know nothing about.
In 2001, I traded that Passat in for a 2002 model. I had the usual ignition coil problem, I had a battery that died because the electrical components to it somehow shorted out, and a couple of the minor issues. Still nothing, that ever left me stranded.
I live and work near several VW dealers, so getting the minor issues addressed has never been much more than small hassle. I've usually been able to get them taken care of at the regular service intervals.
All and all, the extra hassle has been worth it, considering the alternatives. For one thing, I am fairly tall, and VW is among the few automakers who produce sedans that tall people can be comfortable in - especially when it comes to having the top of the sun visor ABOVE my eyes.
My lease expires in a couple of months, and I will most likely either buy the car at the end of the lease or I will buy/lease another VW.
has peeled away. I too had the window problem fixed and the coil issue taken care of. I have read some posts on a problem with oil consumption but have not had that problem with mine. In fact I let it go a little too long last oil change but when i checked it was still full. Seriously. Just wanted to share with you how much I love my car. She's got balls baby!!!!!
Stick to the topic please. Batteries and brakes don't make a car. Oh, and by all means - check your grammar and spelling. The whole idea of someone writing in, is to communicate; so use the language as it was meant to be for our benefit.
To those that now have a VW they have to weigh the fun factor against the problem factor and decide if one out weighs the other. For most people the fun factor just doesn't cover the problems. At least not at this date. That is more than likely why Jetta is down by 10,000 units over this time last year. Passat is down closer to 5,000 units.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp
Auto sales are down in 2004 - it's not just VW. Accord, Corolla, Maxima, Taurus, Focus, etc.
I've had no real problems at all with my 2k Passat GLS V6 wagon. But that's just my annecdotal evidence. Fun cars to drive for sure - been a good ride for the buck.
A lot of people that post here do not have time to go back and make sure their posts are error free. Even with a few grammatical and spelling errors most people will get the point. So my suggestion is to get off of your soapbox and enjoy Edmunds, spelling mistakes and all.
Now from what I have read the younger driver realizes VW has these issues but believes the Fun factor far outweighs any such issues. I always thought my VWs were fun. They were just a pain to keep running.