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Hey we don't want no stinking customers ruining our lunch hour.
I think VW's represent German frugality expressed in cheapness and hard ride and noise.
- they also put bad valve guide seals in the 79 up rabbitts and did not do a recall til forced too (around 84) by a US gov agency, when VW engine failures locked the engines and caused wrecks due to oil burning at 1 quart per 300 miles.
- the westmoreland rabbits had failures in the fuse box - wires were too small - cure cost about $4 - a wire with a fuse was installed around the bad place - a 15 min fix at the dealer -
BUT VW would fix it free but did not bother to tell anyone about it - you had it die on the road at night and pay a tow charge to the dealer.
- cars noisy (a German thing)
- poor AC (a german thing)
I don't know about all the problems with their Jetta, but window fell once and some switches were replaced under warranty. And there are some rattles. And horrible smell comes from AC. But after a while it smells okay.
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=19106&- ;pg=1
This is hardly a comparison of similar things.
The survey in Germany asks "how satisfied they were with their car or SUV and the service its dealer provided" while the NorthAmerica statistics are based on "J.D. Powers and Associates 2003 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS)"
I believe we are ALL in agreement that the VW dealership service is atrocious.... apparently this is true in Germany too. This is of no surprize to me at all. Unfortunately, this poor dealership service is ingrained deeply in the fibers of VW.
I am not even going to go into how JDPowers gets its statistics and where their paycheck comes from.
This article you refer to only proves the point that one had better read very carefully when a reporter decides to assume they are a statistician.
Additionally, I wonder if the reporter knows much about PORSCHE at all. They are VERRRYY expensve to repair and can only be repaired by special Porsche-trained mechanics because of the design. Again, this is hardly a comparison to a family vehicle.
If everyones VW had the attention to detail that a Porsche mechanic provides, we would all LOVE our VWs. (and be selling our kids to pay for the mechanics ;-)
that will not stop bad coil packs or windows that fall out or other electrical gremlins
Another guy had a FOX(?) at the Coast Guard base in 92-93, and sold it.... was in the garage more than in the base parking lot.
1 good, 1 bad.
I went to look to see if Kia Amanti was out, and the dealership has Kia/VW in one section selling cars side-by-side, them BMW and Volvo next door, and Chevy.
The dealership gives you free "speciality coffees and teas and pop" while you are in the waiting room(they have the VW mechanics also working on Kias now). The free stuiff is a nice bonus, of sorts. Beats most waiting rooms.
The Golf looked good that they had on the lot. Checked one out.
My main problem is cost for the entry level vehicles....
a tad steep, to me, versus Toyota, Honda, etc..
Oh, someone mentioned BMW's in USA are not as good as in Germany? Read in Autoweek(?) that BMW in SC had Less recalls/problems.
I read it either AW, or carconnection.
They were speaking of the 10 years since ground breaking,etc, and how people were nervous about purchasing a Bimmmer made in USA.
(or something like this).
Also heard similar comments about Nissan, the USA plant is most efficeint?
Have a good one.
Granted, reliability isn't the end-all and be-all for every car buyer. But, if VW wants to break out of its niche status and really gain ground against the bigger players, it will have to improve reliability. And VW had better improve reliability - not to mention dealer service - if it wants to succeed with the Phaeton.
If VW's are to be built and marketed as a step above the norm, they service dpts also need to follow suit. This is not anything groundbreaking but it's really my only complaint.
Regards... Vikd
This is VERY wrong. My GTI was made in Wolfsburg, and I have had numerous problems with it (including the infamous piston ring not installed properly). Now VW has paid for pretty much every repair (even when the car was not under warranty anymore, and except for the $500 gas pump). But still recent VWs are not reliable. Peugeot-Citroên sold more cars than VW in Europe last quarter for a good reason. VW is having SERIOUS QC problems. And that has nothing to do with the location where the cars are built....
villa
*)All new VWs hav the improved window regulators.
*)The Ignitors are being replaced as fast as the parts become available. (dont forget this is an AUDI engine and the parts are needed for AUDIs too)
Lets try to get beyond these 2 issues... I dont see folks dwelling on the Honda forums about all of the faulty automatic transmissions. Nor do I see folks in the Toyota forums still complaining about the engines gumming up and crapping out.
An automobile is a complex machine and there is NO SUCH THING as a perfect machine. Glitches are unavoidable. A responsive, well-trained, fix it right the first time, service at the dealership makes for happy customers that tend to forget that there was a problem to begin with. Poor dealership service is the root of VWs woes.
That is why I drive about 80 miles (passing 2 other VW dealerships) to get to Kinney motors in Rutland Vermont. The service is professional, reasonably-priced and competent.
VW has acquired an image problem in the US in the last few years - and that image problem isn't going to help them sell $60-80,000 Phaetons in large numbers.
Hyundai Motor is probably in better shape to move upmarket than VW is - and it's having a tough enough time doing that with $25,000 cars - let alone VW's stretch to $60,000 models.
Honda had distributor igniter problems (sorta like coil packs - same result - no go ) in the late 80s, and early 90s. they fixed my 91Civic free (parts about $400) when it had 80k miles and reimbursed my son for a private mechanic repair on his 89 when it was 6 years old and 100k + miles. Thats service.
The same can be said about the more recient automatic xmission failures on Hondas and the Toyota engine problems.
I have been saying for months that VW has an 'image' problem mostly due to their approach to "customer sastifaction" (or lack therof) at most VW dealerships.
VW could learn an important lesson from Honda and Toyota. (But I am afraid it will be a hard lesson for VW)
But the fact remains that it is more of an "image" problem than a reliability issue with the vehicles themselves.
How do you like the 2002 Altima 2.5S?
Would you beleive that after the Jetta, the Altima 2.5S was my wifes second choice?
I liked the Nissan myself but was aprehensive about the longevity of the body thru many years of salt-coverend roads. My last Nissan rusted VERY badly. (but the drivetrain was bulletproof!)
The VW has a 12 year/100,000 mile warantee on the body.
Also, what kind of Nissan was your last one? I had an '87 Toyota Corolla with an excellent drivetrain, but the body rusted.
My Nissan was a pickuptruck. Bought it with 80,000 miles on it... it ran flawlessly until it rusted too badly to pass state inspection. From there, with over 120K miles, It went to the family farm where it ran several more years. I understand it was sold to somone who rebuilt the bed with pressure-treated lumber and it is STILL on the road today. There is no question about it, Nissan builds bulletproof engines!
Like I said, it was the VW 12year/100,000 mile warantee that drew me to VW. Only the Saturn has a better warantee (plastic car) but they have a reputation of consuming oil.
In Vermont, I now consider a galvanized body a MUST HAVE on any vehicle I purchase. I can replace brakes, suspension and even an engine... but I CANNOT replace the body of a vehicle.
My previous car was a VW Fox, which I bought in South Africa in 1992. My relative still drives that car in England and it has always been fantastically reliable. It has done an incredible mileage.
The car before that I also bought in South Africa. I was living there then. It was a Golf GLS 1500cc.I did an enormous mileage in it during it's 14 years. I sometimes drove from Durban to Cape Town in one day over a thousand miles in the day.
The car before that was a VW variant 411 L. It was an estate car I bought second hand. That was less good; because I was cheated when I bought it.
I have been very lucky with VWs and the VW Seat group.
I took a test drive in a Touran compact MPV 7 seater ( third row folds into foor ). I drove the 2.0 litre diesel near Exeter UK. I was delighted with it. The performance and roadholding were excellent. The seating arrangements are extremely clever. The driving position is very comfortable. I am temted very much to buy one!
Interestingly, I know two people who had VW buy back their cars and then went out and bought them again! They just don't like Japanese cars, the way they look and drive.
I have just been lucky I admit!
When I was working in South Africa for 18 years, towards the end of my stay there was unrest at VW. Apart from militant action by the workers ( luckily my Fox was good ), Ferdinand Piech who was boss of VW worldwide at that time walked in to the SA assembly unannounced. He wasn't happy with the then new Golf assembly, so he temporarily stopped it. It cost them a fortune; but he was a sensible man. Quality always sells, people are not fools!!
I bought my Nissan from a Nissan/VW/Mits dealer, and while we were waiting for F&I to get the paperwork in order my salesperson was telling me pretty much what you stated above. He was something of a green pea, but was astonished at how many brand new Jettas were towed back in because of some catastrophic electrical failure. He told me this because we were talking cars, and I told him how much of a disaster my '96 Jetta was. Apparantly VW hasn't changed much over the last decade.
There is no conceivable way I'd ever buy one myself, and really get in the face of any friend of family member considering it. Then again, most people write off VW when I tell them my Jetta story.
What kills me is that Jetta was my first new car, and around the time I had to have it towed back to the dealer for the third time, I was thinking that everyone who bought new cars had to put up with this, kind of like buying a new house. Fortunately, one Chevy, one Ford, two Oldmobiles, and one Nissan later I can now say with confidence that VW was a truly haunted car. None of the other new vehicles my wife and I have bought have failed to start... ever. Sure, there may be stupid things like a rear windshield wiper not wiping the entire window, but I hardly classify that in the same category as the battery exploding and ruining everything plastic or rubber in the engine compartment.
Good riddance, VW.
Both a Golf and Fox I had for very many years and were extremely reliable ( South African assembly of 1978 and 1992 ). The Seat Toledo TDiSE I have in England was assembled in a VW factory in Belgium at the end of 1999. It is a fantastic car. Not a buzz, rattle or squeak, and always totally reliable.
I have heard of terrible striking at various assembly plants lately. Hasn't there been terrible trouble in Brazil also in what used to be East Germany and now it is all one. The workers want the same conditions and pay as the ones in the Western part of the country. There have often been big strikes in South Africa.
It is a good thing to find where your car is assembled. A lot of right hand drive C class Mercedes and 3 series BMW right hand drive are assembled in South Africa. I have nothing against those countries. I know and love South Africa. People have a right to know where their cars are assembled.
It had four headlights. Mine had a 1600 cc engine.
If you type in to Google Search:
South African VW Fox
all sorts of headings come up. The first 2 headings were the most useful.
My Fox was excellent!
I do think it has a bearing, particularly in the case of VW products, which seem to vary widely depending on where they are assembled.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
What you said about VIN numbers is very interesting.
I am not interested in automatic lights, automatic wipers, digical displays and automatic handbrakes. Also key card entry systems. Lots to go wrong !!! Thank you VW for not putting those silly things in to the Touran. It was so easy to drive and understand!!
The Japanese do have good MPVs and 4 by 4s. The Toyota Previa and the Avensis Versa are good. There are other good makes here too.Nissan and Honda of course.
In it's class though, that first group I mentioned are normally compared together in the UK magazines. The Ford has the most car like performance, The Renault is very cleverly designed. Driving position has been made lower and more car like also. The Renault looks cutest and it has so many tricks. The Zaffira is still a brilliant design, as to the way they fold the rear seats in to the floor. It has been going a number of years.
In July I will be moving back permanently to Dublin, as I come from there. The Toyota Avensis is the nomber one car there this year. They can't make them quickly enough!!
I see Toyota is stiil by far the best seller in South Africa. They had a good advert in South Africa: " Everything keeps going right Toyota ".
No car is free from problems, even with my "better than by-the-book" maintenance. Those of us who take them time to write on these forums have either pain or pleasure in owning their cars.
(If you want perfect reliability walk or ride a bike). I enjoy my VW and the information I get about it on this and other websites. When the time comes next December to replace the V6 626 we will not get another Mazda, despite the fact that they are fun to drive. We may get either a Passat V6 Four motion or a Subaru Outback Sedan. But even our old Subaru has had it share of minor adjustments (165,000 and still going strong in California) The Subaru was not much fun to drive but here in New England it was useful.
The VW Fox I bought in 1992 when I worked in South Africa, still goes excellently with an enormous mileage on it back in England.
I have been incredibly lucky so far. Of course I'm sure parts will wear out in time. I bring my Toledo over to Dublin permanently in July 2004.I'll be moving over there from the UK. A fast ferry ride from the north of Wales.
I have hired a vast amount of cars. Recently I hired a compact MPV when visiting Dublin. Four times I hired a Citroen Picasso. Good fun to drive and lots of room for five people. In England they are selling them at huge discount.
I wonder, did you visit Leenane and Clifden?
They have lovely scenery surrounding them.
Also the Cliffs of Moher further south and lovely peaceful Sheeps Head in the far South West. The scenery is always best just after rain. It rains an awful lot on the west coast; but that makes the fantastic sunsets. Wonderful skies. Lovely soft colouring.
I am sure you loved the historical parts of Dublin.
I am a classical musician and I have had wonderful American friends whilst playing full-time in orchestras.
My wife loved visiting the States; but I have never been. I must go!!
Driving in Dublin can be very exciting.It's best to get buses and taxies during the day.
Sorry I'm sure you know all that having been there.
Killiney and Dalkey Hills give a wonderful view of the southern coastline of Co.Dublin. Howth on the northside is a lovely area.
Up in the mountains just south of Dublin, The Pine Forest, the"Feather Bed "road leading near and past the Sally Gap leading down to Glendalough is superb. I'm sure you know all this though.
Thanks so much for the message, it is extremely interesting.
The roads near Dublin are in a transition stage. It will take a while to settle down with all the building.
Unfortunately I have never been to the Aran Islands.I must go there.
My late mother was a church organist and choir mistress. She also had a lovely singing voice.
Even though I am a cellist, I listen to piano concertos played by Ashkenazy, Rubenstein and Richter etc on my 6 CD autochanger and 8 speakers in my Seat Toledo TDiSE. It certainly is a worthwhile included extra. I drive a resonable mileage in the Devon countryside. I find Rachmaninov is very relaxing to listen to when driving long runs.
Thanks so much again for your interesting message.
I am scared to kiss the Blarney stone, as you have to lean back with an awful drop. I am not good with heights.
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I always like to favour the VW group cars, as I have personally had fantastic service. I'm lucky!!
Even though the new Golf Series 5 has a lovely looking dashboard, they have apparently slightly cut back on quality of plastics. They have enormously improved the roadholding though. All makes have to keep to a certain budget level though. I feel that VW are on the up again. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again.
My dealer keeps telling me that the radio "works to design" depsite the obvious flaw.
Is this a simple fuse problem? HELP
I'd appreciate your input on this and on the relationship of the sister brands to Volkswagen as well. Do you think the relatively strong position of VW there has to do with the fact that most of the products are Euro sourced whereas here it is the opposite.
I'm also curious whether you think the Asian brands are making a big impact over there.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
There are an amazing amount of BMWs both here and in Ireland. Quite a lot of Mercedes and Audi too. Time will tell, how popular Chris Bangles new BMW designed cars will be. Apparently sales fell away with the new 7-series.
You will always get a certain loyalty of people buying VWs. They tend to cost a bit more than their competitors, but some VWs keep good resale values.
In Ireland people have to pay more for cars because of heavy local taxes. Sometimes they don't have all the top models with as many added extras as one might find in the UK.
I notice quite a few successful people in Ireland still buy Mercedes and BMWs. You can't enjoy them with the heavy traffic conjestion around Dublin.They have suddenly become so strict about speeding. Penalty points!! They say it has now saved a lot of lives though.
As people have to spend such a high premium buying new cars in Ireland, successful people are inclined to buy what will retain more secondhand value.
I notice an enormous amount of successful new Fords in both countries and plenty of French cars. There are an enormous amount of French cars in the UK.
Fords are incredibly popular ( Focus and Mondeo ). There are a lot of Vauxhall ( Opel ). I think Ford is the best seller in the UK.
Ask some Dublin taxi drivers and they think the world of Honda, Toyota and Nissan. I have had Mercedes taxis in Dublin too.
One sees more Skodas than Seats. Lots of new Fabias and plenty of Octavias. The Superb has been growing with popularity in Ireland. One does though see new Seat Ibizas and Alhambras. One sees more Cordobas in Ireland.
My Seat Toledo is a fantastic car; but I don't understand why the public in both countries don't buy more. They look lovely. Origionally my Seat Toledo was dearer and more plush than the Octavia. I bought my Toledo at the end of 1999.
Is there a lot of cross shopping among the VAG brands, VW, Skoda, Seat and the low end Audis?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/19/autos-36758.htm
A lot of people buy Renault and Peugeot, as in many cases they are full of styling flair. To be fair, they have brought out some excellent cars.
People still buy VW, as they very often hold onto residuals well and to be fair I feel they still have quality. I like VWs and their brands; but very often the French cars look more exciting. I don't want to be sexist; but I hear that women drivers are forcing designers to make their cars more exciting look. Renault are a big example!! Some small Peugeots retain a lot of value.
I like the look of some VWs though. You always get loyal cliantele. I like to buy VW and Seat.My Seat Toledo TDiSE is a fantastic car.It was built in a Belgium VW factory at the end of 1999. It has a lovely Golf GTI leather steering wheel, and a former model Audi A3 dashboard and lovely sports seats. VW brands do share engines and components. Ferdinand Piech who used to be in charge and did a very good job,had many models almost the same eg. VW Bora ( Jetta), Seat Toledo and the Skoda Octavia. Lots of the VW group share the same platforms.
The new boss of VW who used to be in charge of BMW and then Seat for a year, he is trying to make a bigger identity between the brands.I don't want to attempt to mention all the classy sports cars and Bentleys now under VW. Seat are to become the cheaper sports segment with the vastly dearer Audi. Also those amazing very expensive sports cars. VW go together with the much cheaper Skodas and the excellent Bentleys etc.