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"No Start" Problems
I have been having trouble starting my 1996 Chrysler Town & Country minivan lately. I had my battery checked and it was just under the 3 yr warranty and so Sears replaced it last week. All seemed fine until yesterday when it hesitated but did start. This morning the same thing but started on second time. I stopped to get gas and then could not start it. I tried intermittently for 20 minutes and then had success. Any ideas?
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Cheers
During the summer, I usually drive the truck once a week, on Saturdays, to run errands. The last two summers, it's become very difficult to get the truck to initially start. Once I manage to do that, it runs very well, and will continue to start easily the remainder of the day.
Last year, on a suggeston from a friend, I replaced the fuel pressure regulator. That helped the situation, however I did that late in the fall, just before I started driving the truck daily. As a "precaution", I also changed the coolant temperature sensor as well as the fuel pump relay. The fuel filter has been replaced annually.
This summer, the truck has gotten harder to initially start. It seems to be lacking enough fuel to get the fire lit. As in the past, it will run well once I get it going. In an effort to get this resolved, I thought that maybe the air intake temperature sensor might have gone bad, and the computer thinks it's a warm start up...that didn't help. I checked the fuel pressure, and I get 60 lbs. pressure when I turn the key and engage the pump.
Does anyone have any ideas?? Thanks in advance.
As I mentioned, I did check the fuel presure, and it's good. I did cycle the systen a few times. With respect to the fuel filter, I change it every year. The truck is 6 years old, and has 40,000 miles on it. The filter has been changed 6 times, the most recent was 4 days ago.
I don't have easy access to a Tech II scan tool, so I settled for the next best alternative, and drove over to Autozone last night. As a customer courtesy, the'll run a check for trouble codes. There weren't any.
This morning, it totally refused to start. It will be towed to the dealer later today, and hopefully they can find the problem. And even more hopefully, it won't cost a fortune to fix.
Considering how few miles this truck has, and considering that I don't drive it hard, and I'm good with the maintenance, overall it has been a great disappointment to me. Although this is the first time it has, in essence, left me stranded, it's been hitting me with a lot of little problems since it was three days old. Now it's out of warranty, so the fixes are out of my pocket.
I was fortunate enough to have some extra money on hand 6 years ago, so I bought it with the hope that I would have a reliable winter vehicle instead of trusting the "beaters" that I had been driving in the past. The beaters, believe it or not, never failed me. This truck, however.....
Now that it's died, it will be much easier to diagnose
without guessing. With no codes it may have been ignition. Let us know what it was.
They tried it a couple more times during the day, and it started then too. I told them to keep it overnight again, and see what happens today.
Opatience, I appreciate your input, but if you re-read my post, you'll see that I changed the fuel filter less than a week ago (for the sixth time). Secondly, I would assume that if the fuel filter was bad, the truck wouldn't run as well as it does...once I get it started!
Hopefully, they'll find something today.
That nightmare you describe is what happens to us all the time. Wait and wait for something to quit and before you can check anything, it starts back up. That's our world.......Haha
After the second round of "scanning", the finger pointed to fuel injection. They've had the truck for the weekend, and hopefully they'll figure it out and fix it by the end of today or tomorrow. Sadly, before we know it, the snow will be here, and I'll need the truck. At least the dealer is truly trying to get to the root of the problem... at my expense, of course!
They installed a new fuel pump, and so far, the truck is runnng well. The bill, however, was outrageous. I don't have too much of a problem with the labor, as they only billed 4.5 hours for the whole deal, diagnosis as well as dropping the tank and putting in the pump. The pump, however, was a whole 'nother deal, at $540!!
In other words, the total bill was just under $1000. I've already sent a letter of complaint to GM, and a follow up phone call will be placed in a couple of days. The truck has only 40,000 miles on it, and I've spent just over $1100 in repairs in the last 6 months. This is nuts!!
that $540 is kind of a backbiter price, though. it better have included the fuel level sender, a new sock, gaskets, champagne in the parts office, and all the extras. but that's getting to be typical for changeout of hidden parts, alas.
The best price I could find for the pump on the Internet was $335, plus shipping. This pump [non-permissible content removed]'y. does integrate the sending unit as well as the strainer. Yes, a $200 markup at the dealer is fairly steep, however they were quite reasonable on the labor, IMHO.
I don't agree, however, that a 40,000 mile truck is due for a fuel pump. No way....
I replaced the wires and cap/rotor about 18 months ago. While I did purchase Accel parts, IIRC the contacts in the cap were not brass. Apparently, there isn't a big enough market for HP caps for the 4.3 Chevy, at least at this point. The cap looked to be nothing more than a repackaged Delco part.
Then one day in just died and I couldn't get my truck to start. Thats been about 2wks now still know luck. Can anyone HELP!
Could it be electrical.
> are you getting spark? rig something with duct tape to hold a spark plug wire away from the plug, put a cleverly-bent large paper clip in the connection so it touches the metal cap... and a point sticks out. tape the thing so that point is close to a bare-metal chunk of the engine. by close, maybe .040 inches, or the gap of a dime's thickness, is what I mean. twist about behind the wheel until you can see that, and try cranking the engine. if you see sparks, that ain't it.
> are you getting fuel? if it's a carbureted engine, you could pull the fuel line away from the carb using a wrench and try to fill a cup in under a minute cranking. if so, kewl. oh, don't try this with your phony spark gadget still hooked up, it can go boom. return spark test stuff to normal first.
> is it getting air? check the air filter... if that's a grody mess, and the rest of the system is marginal, it's enough. start with it out for tests if you're cheap, put a new one in if that makes a difference.
> assuming this has a carburetor, leave things apart from removing the air filter, watch the throat of the carb, and crank again. if you're blowing smoke rings from the carb, your timing chain/gears are shot, it needs to be repaired.
> not-so-silly question... is there gas in the tank? like, more than three gallons, so we all know it should be picked up by the pump inlet?
the magic triangle of fuel/air/spark makes power. any fault on any leg makes frustration.
Their reply... Well, we sort of feel for you, but the truck IS six years old. What do you expect??
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The last couple of days my wife's 626 (95, 90K miles, L4, auto) has been showing some signs of starting problems. The first time we try to start it in the day, it'll turn five or more times, and engage after that. The sound from the starter is not 'steady', but it sounds as if each turn has less and less 'umpf'. Also, if you crank it twice, then turn the key to 'off', and crank it again it starts right up, in one crank.
Since it's been colder these days in Philly, my feeling is that the battery is going. However, I replaced the battery a year or so ago. Granted, I used a 'DuraLast' from AutoZone, so it could be shot already. I also replaced belts (and they are properly tensioned), spark plugs, cap, rotor months ago, and had no problems until it started getting colder. In any case, the fact that it starts right up after I crank it a couple of times tells me that this may not be a battery problem, but a EFI problem - That is the only thing I have not replaced yet (fuel filter) - It is currently sitting in the trunk, waiting to be changed.
So the question is, could it be the battery (again), or should I freeze my butt one of these days and change the fuel filter (I say freze my butt because changing the filter requires 1/2 of the stuff in the engine bay to be taken out...).
TIA,
Guillermo
look for dangling vacuum hoses. if you can't find any, use a pliers to pinch each one closed in order... you will have found the right place to continue searching when the engine idle drops down to normal (500-600 rpm) and the engine smooths out.
it is also possible that you have a manifold gasket leak, but I'd chase hoses first. when you find the correct problem, chase further down that tree to find the bad connection or open/failed actuator causing the real issue. don't neglect any vacuum controls on heating/cooling, a passenger can kick a hose off and nobody knows about it.
Cheers,
Guillermo
try starting with the door open or parking lights on. if the light goes out on crank attempts, you have an intermittent battery or battery connection. I may be wrong on the dome light staying on, it's been so long, but the parks should be designed to stay on during cranking.
watch the dash idiot lights carefully. if they don't come on in the "run" position the key falls back to after cranking, it's an ignition switch issue.
it could still be an ignition switch issue if you can turn the key to "run" and start right off using a serviceman's starter switch clipped across the starter relay's dinky little contacts. if the relay clicks but you can't measure 12 volts on the big terminal to ground with a meter or test light, it's the starter relay.
it could be the neutral-safety switch from the transmission.
it could also be the starter motor is going away. if one winding has failed, you might get it started by using a long 2x4 to whack the case of the starter motor a couple times, which can jiggle the commutator enough to get a working winding under the brushes. don't laugh, it's worked.
First of all, charge the battery (don't jump start it, because jump starting a totally dead battery is DANGEROUS).
Once the car is running, have someone test the alternator output. If alternator is okay, change battery and cable ends and see how it goes from there.
If alternator is putting out too little or TOO MUCH, get a rebuilt alternator and a new battery.
b
If the car starts after the battery charge, you still have to figure out why the battery went dead, which is why I suggest an alternator check.
If you are lucky, maybe you just have very corroded battery terminals? If the terminals are corroded, remove them, get some baking soda, dissolve in a quart of water, and brush the baking soda on the corrosion. It will "foam" and remove the corrosion.
CAUTION: wear disposable clothing as this foam will eat through clothes; NEVER touch your eyes and skin if you have touched the corrosion in any way.
After the foam has settled down and is no longer active, rinse it off with plain water and a brush. Anything that drips on the ground may stain the concrete so put some newspaper under there.
ALSO, do NOT let the baking soda solution get into the battery itself, or it will ruin it.
good luck!
Host
b
Once that is done, see if the car starts by itself. If not, then a SLOW charge. You don't want to jump start a COMPLETELY dead battery, this is dangerous. If you get a little click click or some dim headlights, then okay, you can jump start the battery. But if it is truly dead, try a slow charge and if that doesn't work replace the battery.
Very often, when a battery is completely and totally discharged, it is ruined or has diminished its capacity to the point where you cannot rely upon it.
So, to summarize:
1. Remove terminal, clean both battery post and cable end.
2. Try to start car.
3. If no start, slow charge battery
4. If no start, replace battery
5. If still no start, and cables are clean, you have another problem. Try turning on headlights. If they light, this indicates a starter motor or ignition switch issue, or possibly neutral safety switch in the transmission linkage (this switch prevents you from starting the car in gear).
6. If it starts with the new battery or the re=charged battery, have the alternator output checked at a shop. If okay, then you are okay, it was the cables all along.
7. If alternator is undercharging or overcharging, replace it with a very good quality rebuilt or new unit. Don't buy cheapo rebuilt alternators, they are a waste of money. Get one with a good warranty.
good luck!
Host
b
Still might be the terminals though. If you started with a fresh battery or a recharged one you'd know a bit better where you stand.
i got the alternator output checked, and it was fine.. the car has been fine the last couple days.. only a couple times when it took two turns of the key to start, but fine besides that. i guess it was the terminals.. cant tell you how much time, money, (and humiliation) you saved me!
b
nah, just kidding. This is what Edmunds forums are all about. Congrats on your persistence with the problem.
Shify the host.
start issues: first, your idle is too high, most cars are in the 500-700 rpm range once the computer has the engine figured out on starting (can take a minute or so, longer in cold weather.) high idle usually tells me I have a vacuum leak someplace and the engine is too lean. if the $$$ light has not gone on, that's the first thing to check. second with over 50,000 miles is for carbon on the EGR or IAC valve in the exhaust manifold. the fix is to clean or replace as necessary. after that, it's tune-up time IMHO.
if you have never changed the fuel filter, do it now. don't suspect the pump until you have done a fuel rail pressure test... and if you have to ask how, it's a darn sight cheaper and safer to have your favorite mechanic do it.
Put headlights on. Very dim indeed. Pop hood and check for loose connections. Nothing to see there. Even the built in hydrometer is nice and green. Funny thing, car went fine all weekend with no sign of trouble. Oh well, battery is 5 years old and that's not too bad. Will get new battery.
Get new battery. Remove negative cable from old battery. Remove positive cable. As I remove bolt from positive terminal, (side mounting terminals) liquid comes pouring out. What the....
Determine it's battery acid pouring out. What else of course? Luckily garden hose is at hand and I flush acid out of engine compartment before any damage is done.
Of course the battery is an AC Delco and I have read many stories about them concerning this very problem. Over tightening the terminal bolts is often blamed for this. Well, then they must have been overtightened at GM when they installed the battery because neither I or anybody else has ever touched the battery.
The moral of my story? Dump that AC Delco side mount terminal battery before it causes some serious problems in your vehicle.
a warning about putting top-terminal batteries in GMs... you may not have clearance for them. way back when, I had a bad battery end on the cable on my 61 skylark. no problem, says I, new car owner of a 11-year-old car, just bicycle down to the hardware store for a universal fits-all battery clamp. you know, the ones with a pair of bolt heads and a clamp plate on the top?
snakes alive, did that sizzle when I put the hood down! got it back up before I arced a hole through the hood diagonal brace or blew up the battery.
learn from my mistake.