We've already addressed this issue - keep reading from that post forward. I hope we've moved beyond the personal confrontations as well. They do not belong here.
I agree, driver legroom in the Avalon is OK, but not great. It's not as good as my Passat. I don't understand why they build an enormous car and not make more of that room accessible to a tall driver by extending the seat tracks back another couple of inches. Maxima does this, as does Mercedes and most VW's.
In a previous post someone mentioned that the Avalon's body is fiberglass/plastic! Surely he must have been kidding -- or was he? Anyone have any insight on this?
Thanks williamt, I thought at the time I wrote the original post I should have said that I had checked and it is in the regular "D" mode so it should be in overdrive. It seems like it's dragging even below overdrive speeds though. I'm used to a car feeling like it's rolling freely as if in neutral. P.S. the parking brake isn't on either.
Mike, I will post that info as soon as I get it. You may contact any Toyota dealer and they will put you in contact with the person that does their gold packages. Another route is to look up independent stereo shops as there are plenty that do all types of work not just stereos. : ) Mackabee
Took my new Limited out for its first extended spin yesterday (about 250 miles) and had a chance to check out the Laser Cruise Control performance.
Overall, it worked as advertised. You set both a speed AND a distance, and the system works to give you the speed while maintaining the distance. If you approach a vehicle that is going slower than the speed you set, your vehicle will slow down to match the speed of the vehicle ahead. If that vehicle speeds up or goes away, the system increases your speed gradually back up to the point you set.
Once a large truck cut in front of me, cutting the distance suddenly, and also going slower than I was, so the distance was also decreasing (now why would he do that? Another story). The system cut the throttle and applied the brakes, and also beeped and flashed, indicating that I needed to take over. Just as it was susposed to.
My impression is that the system will be useful in situations where cruise control is feasible--i.e., reasonably light traffic on highways. It will take away the need to continually make small adjustments to keep a safe distance from the car in front. However, it will NOT eliminate the need to pay attention to what is going on, i.e., it is not an "auto pilot".
Hi: Yesterday I test drove a Touring (no vsc) and an XLS (w/vsc) back to back within a half hour of each other and took each on a familiar 25mph off ramp and found that the touring's handling is only marginally better (I do mean marginally), but only up to a point. In the touring I had to brake hard and scrub off speed at 35-37 mph to prevent a too-close encounter with the guard rail because the rear tires were breaking loose (fishtailing). However, with the xls, I took the same line on the same off ramp, and sailed through the turn at 40 mph with little drama and fanfare - safe and secure.
No, I do not attempt to drive the Avalon like that on a regular basis, but how else can one determine a car's emergency handling traits? That having been said, I've decided that I cannot purchase any car without vsc. I took a BMW 3-hour driving course in which I was asked to try and flip an X3 suv with vsc and could not do it.
What a nice car the Touring would be with with the safety benefit of VSC. Oh well.
Essentially, Sirius and XM are the same thing, except that certain sports broadcast will be exclusive to one or the other providers. I'm not sure of the details. One service may cost more per month than the other. Also, if you like Howard Stern, he'll be leaving conventional radio to broadcast exclusively on Sirius for at least a five-year period. Hope I've help some. Deannie
Titanium on Graphite is a great color combination and the price you paid sounds fair considering the other stories on this forum. Good job, and good luck with your great car!
Yes, there is an XM Tuner that must be installed in the trunk for XM radio to work. Even for the Limited version with SAT ready radio. You have to run an XM cable from the front radio to the trunk and connect it to the tuner. The XM antenna is also connected to that box.
I have not been following this discussion lately, but just read a current Autoweek article on the new 05 Infiniti M series by James Healey, http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-03-17-m-series_x.htm, and it says: "M35 rear-wheel drive is rated 18 miles per gallon in town, 25 on the highway; AWD is 17/24. M45 is 17/23. Premium fuel is required to meet advertised power ratings. Infiniti says both engines run safely on regular, with an unspecified loss of power. Trip computer in M45 test car showed 15.9 mpg in mixed driving." So, here is a fuel statement from a manufacturer about this. BTW, rave review on the car.
Hey teereeves....I have a black Limited, and I don't notice the Laser housing as much, but I have not really notice it on any very much. I do love the black with light gray interioir. It is very sharp. Just get ready to clean alot!!!
Whoever posted here and mentioned they hear a noise off the right side of the car only upon start up when first moving the car. Well I happened to be on with Toyota Corporate trying to find out the exact date my car was manufactured and if it was the 100th or thousandth etc. They couldn't tell me that other than my car started to be assembled in Dec and was finished in January of 05 and probably within the first 4,000 of the new Avalons produced or less, they couldn't give you the exact number from the Vin which surprised me. My car was originally ordered on February 1 and arrived at the dealership sometime prior to the 15th of Feb. Anyway, I posed the question about that noise on start up, and the gentleman checked back with a tech person who said it sounds like the pressure build up for the ABS that disappears in a second or so like he has on his Lexus. So I don't know if that is the case with your car, I just wanted to inform you what I heard. I would still bring your car in for your appointment that you scheduled just to check it out. Good Luck.
I apologize for the harshness. Perhaps I'm jealous of those willing to get their Avalons now while I resign myself to wait.
All I meant to do was point out that many on this forum seem to be paying several thousand more for the new model than what the street selling price will be by the summer if not by late spring.
As to your trade-in, it's true that cars depreciate every day, but I doubt that by the summer you'll lose several thousand dollars in depreciation on your '03 Sienna, even when accounting for slightly higher monthly payments (maybe) due to slowly climbing interest rates.
No, I do not believe all who paid at or near MSRP are overzealous or irrational, but I have to believe that the number of such on this forum is not insignificant.
Point of note: Remember those over-MSRP Nissan 350z's, Subaru WRX's, and Infiniti G35's et al? They do not exist anymore. All of the above can be had for little above invoice, as the Avalon will eventually be. Regards, Deannie
Unless there are extenuating circumstances, my advice s to wait. Better yet, try other dealerships in areas you may not do business in but are within an hour or two of your home. Are there Toyota dealerships in areas where the rent might be lower, and thus their costs are lower? Just a thought. Regards, Deannie
Hi: Please see post #3098 which is an apology to all for my harsh words, and is also a response to another post. P.S. I'm a guy, but I understand the mistake given my feminine-sounding nickname. Regards, Dean
Perhaps I'm just an old-fashioned fuddy-duddy, but I fail to see the need to have my tushie either heated or air-conditioned, and the perforated seats look pretty cheap to my eyes. I saw an XLS in blizzard white the other day at Miller Toyota in Manassas, with non-perforated leather. It was just gorgeous, but I don't know if it can be had with NON-PERFORATED leather seats AND stability control. Anybody out there know the answer?
Good and bad news, cc12witt. You can get the VSC in the XLS Avalon. But, if you do, it will come with heated seats. However, being the XLS, I am almost positive that you will get the non-perforated leather (the kind that you like). (Only the Limited comes with perforated leather.) See the link http://www.toyota.com/avalon/models.html, click on "Safety", and click on footnote [10].
Bottom line (no pun intended): get the XLS with VSC, don't ever turn on the seat heater, and you'll be sittin' pretty.
I am going to write a letter to Toyota and tell them about the legroom/headroom issue. Maybe they will realize they are losing sales unnecessarily and adjust models in a year or two. Funny, we owned a Celica and Camry many years ago and I could fit in both. I can no longer fit in either car, and I have not gotten any taller or bigger around the waist.
In view of several comments about insufficient driver legroom AND the generous rear legroom that is available, it seems reasonable to ask whether the driver seat tracks could be moved back a couple inches to extend the front legroom. Does anyone know if this is feasible?
Why do you keep harping on this. I don't think people on this board are children, and I don't mean this to criticize you even though you mean well. Certainly everyone is smart enough to make these decisions. The new TV's that are paper thin, many have been purchased at high prices with the knowledge that in time the prices will come down. That is capitalism. Computers are a bargain now. Business would come to a stand still if every one just waited and waited for prices to fall. There are those that appreciate the nuances of the market place, but they want what they want now and are willing to pay more. There isn't anything wrong with that. The movie Love Story was sad when the Girl wanted to go on a trip to Paris, but her lover kept putting it off because he was to busy earning a living and not stop and smell the roses and listen to what she wanted. When she became terminally, he got the tickets, but it was to late, her pain and suffering kept her in bed. We never know what tomorrow brings. So my friends, I won't lecture you, you are all free to do what you wish, and enjoying the moments while we can is worth whatever your willing to pay for it. I know Macabee shares that with me.
THANK YOU, gschultz3, Never thought about that, so true. And all manufacturing would come to an end and we couldn't even afford a used car because we would all be out of jobs. Enjoy the moment my friends, time waits for no man.
After a glorious week with my new Phantom Gray Limited I waited until the low fuel warning light came on to fill the tank. I filled the tank with only 15.2 gallons so there was just over 3 gallons remaining. First tank was 19 MPG and that was with quite a bit of lead foot showing off to impress my friends. Very pleased and amazed with that figure for a first tank. The 01 XLS I traded in only got 15 MPG around town.
We're supposed to be talking about the cars, not each other.
We need to get away from the personal confrontations. If any of you feel there is an issue with a posted message, please email me. But everyone needs to keep in mind that civility and respect in posted messages are requirements of your Membership Agreement. Making personal confrontative challenges to other members in the manner I've seen here recently does not comply with that term.
Feel free to email me with any questions, but let's get back to the car and lose the focus on each other...
I guess there is no way to make a FWD car handle the same on the twisties as a RWD car. As you found VSC helps but I bet if the Avalon was RWD you could go over 40 without VSC. Sport sedans are all RWD for a reason.
My thanks to Mackabee and dajab for their responses about heated seats, standard leather vs. perforated and stability control on an XLS. It would be the best of both worlds for me---my "frozo" wife would be happy, and I would just not turn the unnecessary things on when I'm driving.
Re: insufficient legroom for driver....IF one could just unbolt the front seats, (or even just the driver's seat) , unbolt the track, drill a few new holes in the pan, re-position the track, then, "VOILA!" the longed-for legroom appears!
My black LTD has arrived and they had parking sensors installed on the back for me. I will pick it up Monday when I have the money in my checking account to pay for it. First black Avalon LTD I have seen and I really like it. Since I am retired I have plenty of time available to keep it polished. My wife reminded me that I swore I would never buy a black car again .... 1995 black STS. I can't wait to drive it! I'm sure I'll be adding more stuff in the near future ..... chrome grill? DVD? real aluminum dash kit? who knows?
It doesn't take long to get used to new technology. I have been driving a rental car for a few days and really miss the keyless starter I had on my FX45. I've had nav systems on my last four cars but can't wait to try the voice activated nav on the Avalon.
I am beginning to believe that this car will be the first one I have owned which will meet all of my expectations.
I like the perforated leather seats on the Limited ... but I have three small dogs who occasionally travel with me in the car. I have to wonder if their toenails will catch in the perforations and tear the leather. What about durability in general with everyday use? Do the perforations make the leather more vulnerable to damage from snags and general wear & tear?
Anybody had any experience with perforated leather seats? With pets? Regards - Bushka
There's a good picture of what Cassis Pearl looks like but it is of a 2004 Avalon (yes 2004)in kbb.com under new cars...2004 Avalon.
People are talking about the perforated seats. Are there any inherent problems with them, I have never had them. Do the ivory perforated seats look okay? They don't look junkie do they?
Fantastic! Can you show us a picture? I bought the Avalon in part because my wife complains about how rough it is to ride in all of the cars I have purchased lately .... Volvo V70T5 18", G35, 350Z 19", FX45 20", Audi A6 (pretty soft ride). I think big wheels just make cars look more aggressive. People seem to disagree on how much they help handling. What size are your 20" tires ..... same diameter as the standard 17" tires that come on the Avalon?
I have some brand new Nissan 17" tires from a 350Z I'd sell real cheap!
I've had perforated seats in my last three cars. They are more comfortable, like good cloth seats. I haven't noticed any particular problems. Only negative I can think of is they tend to collect "leather conditioners" through the perforations in the material under the leather. I'm going to try to stay away from leather cleaners and conditioners this time. Some of the most expensive cars have perforated leather seats.
"....IF one could just unbolt the front seats, (or even just the driver's seat), unbolt the track, drill a few new holes in the pan, re-position the track, then, "VOILA!" the longed-for legroom appears!"
Actually moving the seat tracks back is not the problem. The problem is that in some cars, doing this 1) puts the seated driver too close to the center pillar such that the seatbelt no longer achieves proper tension across the driver's torso and/or 2) positions the seat-mounted side airbag too close to the center pillar, interfering with its proper deployment.
I don't know if either of these situations would actually exist in the Avalon if the rear seat was moved back from its standard travel; it all depends on the position of the center pillar relative to the rearmost position of the seatback. But I sure would find out before messing with the seat track. I'm one of the big guys who would love more legroom, but I would never risk reducing the effectiveness of seatbelts or airbags to get it.
I've been trying to see all the exterior colors and interior leather options. Went to Longo Toyota, in El Monte, CA, which must be the biggest Toyota dealer in US. Where most dealers have 2 or 3 Avalons, Longo had around 2 dozen.
I've seen all the exterior colors, which are clearly labeled on the window sticker. But the interior leather color is not described in words, like Light Gray or Graphite, but by a code, such as LA16. Can't find the info to translate the letter code into word description, so I don't know if I've seen Light Gray or Graphite or what.
Anybody out there know how to read the interior leather color off the window sticker? Or how to translate the strange letter code?
Your email points out that Toyota has not done a good job providing information to potential customers. They need better sales tools. The Avalon is certainly in or near the "near luxury market" but their literature and web site is not up to the job. They need to provide more information, pictures and technical details than they have. The 3D picture of the LTD on their web site is very good but it would be great if you could change the interior and exterior colors. I purchased a black LTD but was never able to find many pictures of black LTD's. They should have leather samples at the dealership. My dealer did not even have any literature left. Volvo, Acura, Cadillac, Nissan have much better literature. Maybe they are afraid the Avalon will look too much like a Lexus? Good luck!
I've had perforated leather seats before and my Dachshund never did any damage to them. They feel softer then solid leather, so I believe a little more comfortable but not that discernible. The expensive luxury cars seem to use perforated so that ought to tell you something Bushka. Only problem is when cleaning them don't over do the liquid, it has a way of running between the perforations, that is the only problem I see. I kind of solved that by putting the liquid, leather cleaner or whatever you use, conditioner etc., on the sontara non-woven fabric I use and slosh it around in the fabric first. I never had a snag. I do believe in general compared to solid leather that has cracked on me even though I took care of them, it never happened on the perforated and possibly never would when taking care of them. I have the XLS and wish I had the perforated, but only the solid is available in this model. I hope that gives you a little more insight in helping you reach a decision in which car to purchase, Toyota, Ford or whatever. Good Luck.
Have posted several times that the perforated leather seats in my '03 XL are wonderful ! You will enjoy them more in a hot, humid climate but they are fine anytime. We don't have pets in the car so your concern for tearing the leather may be valid. But the material seems pretty strong so it is probably a minor concern with a small dog(s).
Several people have posted a comment about the perfs catching dirt and accumulated cleaner over time. The lighter the color, the more this might be visible. Mine is light..looks fine after two years. No problems.
Hello Doug.....what type of gas did you use (reg unlead, prem?) and was that town mileage or hwy? I had my first look at a Limited today and I am very seriously thinking of buying one. Sac. Calif. area. Does anyone know if dealing through the internet is better than dealing with the guy on the lot? I hate the run-around stuff. It sounds like most folks are paying about $2000. over MSRP? Any help would be appreciated. Cherie1
Comments
: )
Mackabee
Overall, it worked as advertised. You set both a speed AND a distance, and the system works to give you the speed while maintaining the distance. If you approach a vehicle that is going slower than the speed you set, your vehicle will slow down to match the speed of the vehicle ahead. If that vehicle speeds up or goes away, the system increases your speed gradually back up to the point you set.
Once a large truck cut in front of me, cutting the distance suddenly, and also going slower than I was, so the distance was also decreasing (now why would he do that? Another story). The system cut the throttle and applied the brakes, and also beeped and flashed, indicating that I needed to take over. Just as it was susposed to.
My impression is that the system will be useful in situations where cruise control is feasible--i.e., reasonably light traffic on highways. It will take away the need to continually make small adjustments to keep a safe distance from the car in front. However, it will NOT eliminate the need to pay attention to what is going on, i.e., it is not an "auto pilot".
Yesterday I test drove a Touring (no vsc) and an XLS (w/vsc) back to back within a half hour of each other and took each on a familiar 25mph off ramp and found that the touring's handling is only marginally better (I do mean marginally), but only up to a point. In the touring I had to brake hard and scrub off speed at 35-37 mph to prevent a too-close encounter with the guard rail because the rear tires were breaking loose (fishtailing). However, with the xls, I took the same line on the same off ramp, and sailed through the turn at 40 mph with little drama and fanfare - safe and secure.
No, I do not attempt to drive the Avalon like that on a regular basis, but how else can one determine a car's emergency handling traits? That having been said, I've decided that I cannot purchase any car without vsc. I took a BMW 3-hour driving course in which I was asked to try and flip an X3 suv with vsc and could not do it.
What a nice car the Touring would be with with the safety benefit of VSC. Oh well.
Deannie
Hope this helps.
All I meant to do was point out that many on this forum seem to be paying several thousand more for the new model than what the street selling price will be by the summer if not by late spring.
As to your trade-in, it's true that cars depreciate every day, but I doubt that by the summer you'll lose several thousand dollars in depreciation on your '03 Sienna, even when accounting for slightly higher monthly payments (maybe) due to slowly climbing interest rates.
No, I do not believe all who paid at or near MSRP are overzealous or irrational, but I have to believe that the number of such on this forum is not insignificant.
Point of note: Remember those over-MSRP Nissan 350z's, Subaru WRX's, and Infiniti G35's et al? They do not exist anymore. All of the above can be had for little above invoice, as the Avalon will eventually be.
Regards,
Deannie
Yes, a day trip is worth saving thousands off of MSRP. Good job, and well-bought given the current market conditions.
Regards,
Deannie
Regards,
Deannie
Please see post #3098 which is an apology to all for my harsh words, and is also a response to another post. P.S. I'm a guy, but I understand the mistake given my feminine-sounding nickname.
Regards,
Dean
: )
Mackabee
Bottom line (no pun intended): get the XLS with VSC, don't ever turn on the seat heater, and you'll be sittin' pretty.
dajab
I am going to write a letter to Toyota and tell them about the legroom/headroom issue. Maybe they will realize they are losing sales unnecessarily and adjust models in a year or two. Funny, we owned a Celica and Camry many years ago and I could fit in both. I can no longer fit in either car, and I have not gotten any taller or bigger around the waist.
I'm very very impressed with this car !
Doug
We need to get away from the personal confrontations. If any of you feel there is an issue with a posted message, please email me. But everyone needs to keep in mind that civility and respect in posted messages are requirements of your Membership Agreement. Making personal confrontative challenges to other members in the manner I've seen here recently does not comply with that term.
Feel free to email me with any questions, but let's get back to the car and lose the focus on each other...
Thanks.
Re: insufficient legroom for driver....IF one could just unbolt the front seats, (or even just the driver's seat) , unbolt the track, drill a few new holes in the pan, re-position the track, then, "VOILA!" the longed-for legroom appears!
It doesn't take long to get used to new technology. I have been driving a rental car for a few days and really miss the keyless starter I had on my FX45. I've had nav systems on my last four cars but can't wait to try the voice activated nav on the Avalon.
I am beginning to believe that this car will be the first one I have owned which will meet all of my expectations.
Anybody had any experience with perforated leather seats? With pets? Regards - Bushka
People are talking about the perforated seats. Are there any inherent problems with them, I have never had them. Do the ivory perforated seats look okay? They don't look junkie do they?
Anyone drive in the snow yet ??
I have some brand new Nissan 17" tires from a 350Z I'd sell real cheap!
Actually moving the seat tracks back is not the problem. The problem is that in some cars, doing this 1) puts the seated driver too close to the center pillar such that the seatbelt no longer achieves proper tension across the driver's torso and/or 2) positions the seat-mounted side airbag too close to the center pillar, interfering with its proper deployment.
I don't know if either of these situations would actually exist in the Avalon if the rear seat was moved back from its standard travel; it all depends on the position of the center pillar relative to the rearmost position of the seatback. But I sure would find out before messing with the seat track. I'm one of the big guys who would love more legroom, but I would never risk reducing the effectiveness of seatbelts or airbags to get it.
One small dog short term. No problems!
I've seen all the exterior colors, which are clearly labeled on the window sticker. But the interior leather color is not described in words, like Light Gray or Graphite, but by a code, such as LA16. Can't find the info to translate the letter code into word description, so I don't know if I've seen Light Gray or Graphite or what.
Anybody out there know how to read the interior leather color off the window sticker? Or how to translate the strange letter code?
Max
This might prevent or at least reduce the coditioner getting down into the perforations.
Several people have posted a comment about the perfs catching dirt and accumulated cleaner over time. The lighter the color, the more this might be visible. Mine is light..looks fine after two years. No problems.