I've taken my Ford trucks into various dealers in various states and have never had a problem with service. They have often done warranty and recall work without me asking or knowing about a problem. The profit margin on warranty work is less for the dealer because the reimbursement from Ford is less than the dealers charge retail. They still make money though and it allows them to keep more mechanics on staff.
If your local dealer is close on price and delivery time, it's always nice to give the local guys the business. However, many of us got signficantly better deals by going out of our local areas. Remember that you don't owe any dealer anything. They make money even if they sell the vehicle to you at dealer invoice. By not giving you a similar deal to what you can get out of the area, the local dealer has willingly made a decision to risk losing your business by offering a higher price that he thinks you will take rather than hassling with getting a ride to the out-of-the-area dealer.
It's unfortunate if the local dealer offers a competitive price, but doesn't have a large enough allotment to get you the truck in a reasonable time. A that point, you have to decide if you're willing to wait. My attitude is to keep personal feelings out of it unless you personally know the dealer. You're plucking down alot of money. You're in charge. It's all business. Although there are a lot of nice dealers out there, their #1 priority is to turn the highest profit margin they can.
I'm sure glad I found this site, it doesn't make waiting easier, but I understand that it not just me. ordered 2000 f250 sd excab 4x4 5.4 3.73 early nov.dealer said it was built dec. 20 should arrive by him the week of jan. 10 I think i'm going to sleep in it the first couple days. I'm going to do a liner and maybe a cover I'll also need good mud flaps-any suggestions? Also I want to do some striping nothing gaudy are there any sites out there where a guy can see some trucks and maybe get some ideas. thanks
lilelmo: Thanks for the tips. I can duplicate the noise at any time. It sounds like a rubbing noise, only at slow speeds. They told me they would get back on it next week. Also that it might be the differential. Why would they think that? I am also having my baby serviced at a dealer that I didn't purchase from. pungo: My truck is a F250, lariat,psd,4X4,not esof, camper pkg, tow pkg, could this still be the problem?
I am in complete agreement with sdman and Brutus about servicing your truck at dealers other than the selling dealer. It just shouldn't matter, and if it does, Ford will here from me very quickly.
I haven't heard any negatives about Wiscasset's service department. I haven't had occasion to bring in my Super Duty yet. Eight or nine years ago, they did some warranty work for me on the transmission for my '87 F-150, and I was completely satisfied. But, things could have changed since then.
I would NEVER send anyone to Brunswick Ford to purchase a vehicle ("what will it take you to buy this truck today?"), but I don't have a problem with their service department. Most service work we've had done over the past several years, though, has been at Casco Bay Ford in Yarmouth, where we bought our '95 Explorer.
I really think that you should at least talk to the sales guys at Wiscasset, even if you only end up using them as leverage with another dealer. I know Wiscasset will be very competitive in both price and allocation. Good luck.
mainecowgirl - I have the 5.8L in a Bronco and get 8-10 when trailering two horses or our pop up camper. About 12 max normal mode. Based on responses seen here I expect the V10 to get better mileage and more power.
Order update: Ordered 10/31/99, "DORA" (actually VOC) 11/2. Checked with dealer yesterday. Spoke with GM and Fleet Sales Manager (and salesman). Very enlightening. Until now I have been dealing with my salesman. There are 20 something Superduties on order ahead of mine. Of those, 8 or 9 have the same major configuration (F350, CC, Lariat, V10, SRW, Auto, 4x4). Their allocation is the largest in the Washington region for any single dealership. Their allocation would have them get 1 or 2 of this configuration per month unless the factory has excess allocation to switch over. They hope to see more production following the Holidays and they say that this time of year is historically slow for new orders. They met with the district rep a day or two ago and passed along my frustration and in turn theirs because they say they can't pass along reliable status info to their customers. I think that they could have done a much better job and not try to pass the buck to the Ford Motor Company. Lessons learned and reiterates previous advice given in this forum (and which I didn't follow 100%) -
a. Deal with the Fleet Sales Manager - MAKE them show you their allocation before you order (the salesman told me in good faith info which was not accurate - managers don't share many of the details with the sales folks - they are just supposed to make the sale). MAKE them tell you how many orders are ahead of you. If you do deal with a salesperson, still insist on talking with the ones that know the allocation and dealership order status. b. INSIST on receiving the DORA and any changes made after initial order (I am assuming that Ford will acknowledge officially any order modifications). I received what I thought was the DORA. Actually it was the Vehicle Order Confirmation (VOC). As it was in agreement with my verbal and written agreement with the salesman containing all the important items, I didn't quibble that it wasn't a "DORA". I called the VOPC right away and confirmed that indeed the order was in place. The problem is that the VOC had a Priority 10 - in actuality when looking at the order book yesterday and talking with the managers, my order is a priority 20. My salesman was unaware of this and showed the VOC to the GM. Somewhere along the line my priority got changed and I wasn't informed. Apparently all orders at this dealership for "retail" are done at a priority 20 while those vehicles destined for the lot are ordered at a priority 40.
I have written a note to the owners and expressed my extreme displeasure with the entire progress (or lack of) in this deal. I told them that as far as I am concerned this is a breach of contract. We shall see what transpires. All other dealers in the area that I contacted indicated about a 6 month wait. I went with these guys because they "told" me but didn't prove that they had the allocation to get my truck in 2 to 3 months. Looks like that's what it will be - 6 months. With over 2 months invested waiting now, I might as well stick with this dealer and try to get anything extra I can out of them as compensation (not that they have expressed much sympathy). I am not a happy camper at all.
Keep up the great posts. I enjoy this forum a great deal. Sorry for the long winded note...
Sorry to hear about the problems -- but if you feel you got a good deal at your dealership -- stick with it!!! I GUARANTEE that it will be worth the wait!!! You know, "Don't worry - be Happy"!!! Personally I waited 22 weeks and took the time to log on and read these posts. I was able to learn a lot of information and get a chuckle at the same time!! Where else could you find a cup holder remedy before your truck even arrives or what's best to take with you when you take cover in your bunker on New Years Eve!!! Relax, it WILL get here and when it does you will forget about the long wait!!
Mainecowgirl: I haven't had a problem with buying a vehicle in one place then having service done at another!! Your moneys green and they will take it!! Never have run into a service department that cares, or even asks for that matter, where I purchased my vehicle. What is nice about having service done in one location though is the fact that they will have a running history of the maintenance performed.
all: I've been the happy owner of a `00 F250 SD XLT CC 4X4 5.4L 5 Spd SB for about three weeks now and have to agree with most a post from awhile back: MPG City - don't care, MPG Highway - don't care, etc... This is one great truck! I've actually seen MPG range from 9.9-13.8 depending on where I'm driving (in or out of town) and weather. MPG definitely goes down as temp drops and idle time increases. I expect MPG to go up after "break-in" is over and summer arrives. As mentioned before, our fuel is "oxygenated" during the winter with ethanol (10-15%) to reduce pollution. I noticed a 10-15% MPG drop in my old F150 the moment I filled up with the oxy-fuel.
northpole1: just read that you went to "America" to get your truck, obviously because no one in AK would deal with you. What was the "best price" you were offered in AK?
Brutus: drop me an e-mail if you are interested in foglights. I'm putting together a "small" order thru the commercial dept and have no problem with ordering foglamps for you to install your self at my price, just let me know.
for those waiting: it is without a doubt worth it!!! Enjoy.
handgunhunter: I ordered the same truck. Did you get the esof, or manual. My thinking is the esof would be better for my car driving wife, but I know the manaul should be more reliable. Thanks Abunch
it sounds like your noise is different than mine, I had a clunking in tight turns at slow speeds. My fix was the esof vacuum selenoid. Since your hubs are manual it must be a different problem.
...is an understatement. Picked my truck up at the dealer yesterday. 250 SC SB 4X4 V10 5sp camper & tow pkg. I cannot believe the power this truck has. To everybody who is still waiting, be patient, keep your chin up, etc. and when your baby finally rolls in, enjoy!!!!!!
I did go out and check the hubs and they were in fact locked. I had never checked do I guess they were locked at the factory. I switched them to free and the noise is gone (for now). What is funny though is your delivery date of Dec 27th was my expected date however it came in on the 17th. Unexpected surprise!! Thanks for the info, it got me out of a bind because dealer said he couldn't get to it by Wednesday and I am leaving for the woods (Forest Hills, LA) to ride our atv's. Sure glad I won't have to worry about the truck!
One more consideration about service. Although every employee answers to the owner of the dealership, each department has set their own goals. Sometimes, you will find that there is friction between the service department and the sales department. More than once, I've heard someone in the service area say something along of the lines of: the salesman promised you what?!
Another thing is that the service guys are mechanics who have had training to do what they do. A salesmen might be a slick talking young whipper-snapper a few years removed from high school. I can't imagine that it goes over too well when he has a good month and his paycheck far exceeds the mechanic's check. Most service manager's want busy service departments, which generally means repeat business from happy customers.
handgunhunter, my wallet is currently in post-Christmas withdrawal, so I'll pass on the luxury of fog lights for now. Thanks for the offer, though! It's time for me to start rebuilding the reserves for fishing/camping season. The days are getting longer, Fur Rendezvous next month, Iditarod in March (go Swenson!), and then it's summer.....well almost.
Brutus, believe it or not service writers are just as aggressive sales people as anyone in the dealerships. Mechanics also are encouraged to "Flag" as many hours as they can which not only increases their income it also increases the dealerships income. Dealerships generally don't like warranty work for various reasons and some times give non-customers a harder time ie; "That's what they're supposed to sound like."
playmor1: Glad your noise in gone, especially if it was just locked hubs. Didn't have a clue about the differential noise potential, but there is a differential under the front of a 4X4. Have fun with those ATVs.
service and sales: I bought my old F150 where I've ordered my 00 F250 CC, but I've had all my dealer work except one recall done at the local place and I'll have my new SD worked on there, too. My purchase dealer is about 30 miles away in another town. Never a bad word about where I bought the 150 when it's in for service locally and always (so far) good service. The others are right, green is green and I'll bet it all comes out in the wash, so far as who gets what done, where.
I'll wait, somewhat impatiently I guess, but I'll wait. That reminds me, I haven't checked the order status lately (been too busy-yeah, that's heresy I know). My wife didn't understand why I ordered before Christmas (Oct. 19) if I wanted to get it by Feb or Mar, but a buddy got his CC last summer and it took four months, too. Just so long as I've got it before a)anything expensive goes wrong with my old 150 and b) before I get ready for the new camper. We did a big cross country last year in a popup to Colorado and this year, it's SD and bunkhouse to the northwoods! To quote the inestimable crazyelvis, Yee Haw!!!
Reminds of that old tongue in cheek prayer,"God grant me patience, quick!"
Thanks again for the input. I have been reading these posts since September and I must say this site is great. I may have to quit reading soon are my husband will have me out there working on it myself!! Boy, would we be in trouble. I know the wait for you must be long because I ordered Oct 28 delivered Dec 17 and I almost didn't make it!! My other half was sick of listening to me. Good luck with your baby - I hope it is born soon
You are certainly welcome and thanks for the kind words.
I was out and about yesterday and cruised by another Ford dealer (you know, just checking things out). I 'bout ran off the road when I saw a truck sitting there rigged out and colored just like "mine." I pulled off across the street and just looked a looooonnnnnggg time. Spouses don't seem to understand it, but having to work on your toy is not all that much of a punishment, is it?
This IS a good site and has a ton of nice folks. I really enjoy it.
dwucher...I went with the manual vs ESOF as I go off-road (some say seriously) during the summer fishing season and fall hunting season. Some of my buddies are wondering if we can now make it thru those mud/water holes since we sit up so much higher. While I'm sure ESOF would have worked fine for me, I stuck with what I like - after all it's my truck!!! I would have went with auto and ESOF if my wife planned on driving the beast.
Brutus... I can relate to that post Christmas withdrawal. The offers always there come PFD time next fall.
Cold weather report - So far the lowest temp. I've started my PSD at (unplugged) is +10. It fired right up! I can say that it takes quite a while to get hot air out of the vents when you're trying to warm up 7.3 liters. The manual says it will start OK above -10. Even the coldest days in Colorado usually make it to zero.
Resale - I thought about your question, Brutus but decided to buy now instead of waiting. I figured there would probably be some bugs with the engine the first couple of years and I already had 115,000+ on my old T-100 (which Toyota stopped making). I think the year of the truck has more to do with resale value than the engine. Several people in the Ford-Diesel forum say they would rather have the current Navistar than the new Cummins. I think the Cummins runs higher RPMs.
L/S - so far, I have had no problems with the regular 3.73 axle in my F-350 PSD 4WD. The roads to my house have been snow-packed since I picked it up (12/4) and I've had no problems (even stopping and starting on a hill). From what I've read, I would have trouble if I got my right side stuck in a ditch, but I try to avoid those situations.
3.73 / 4.10 - My dealer told me that the PSD was only available with the 3.73 (but I wasn't looking for a dually so that could be why he didn't mention the 4.10). The PSD is a low RPM engine it red lines around 3400 RPMs. I can't say that I would recommend the 4.10. I'm running a little over 2000 RPMs at 70 mph in overdrive. BTW, I got 17.9+ mpg on my last two tanks with the PSD/3.73/6spd combo. From past posts, it seems that the DRWs hurt mileage more than the automatic transmission.
From my test drive the PSD seemed more powerful than the V-10. Most likely, my altitude. I think another reason was the gear rations: the V-10 I drove was a 4.30 and seemed to whine like a small engine. The PSD was a 3.73 and ran at a lot lower RMPS. In Colorado its hard to find a gas engine to test drive - almost all of the super duties in stock are PSDs.
Bottom line: Both engines are powerful and everyone should get what they like. I think that's more important than a little difference in cost one way or the other.
A word of thanks to all for all your "words of wisdom" about the dealers, pricing, etc providing an education session before hitting it with the dealers. I finally broke down this morning and left the dealer Sat morning ordering a 250HD Crew Cab, 4x4,XLT just the way I wanted her, 4.10 LS, trailer tow, Plow Pack, . I've traveled all over New England passing by many dealers along the way with many "folks with the strokes". I finally got the deal I wanted right in my own back door. Glad to finally share the smile that those of you have had and look forward to the "smile-smile" that the rest will have once they pick thier rigs up! I never new this many of you Crew Cabbers were out their. I have an 88 F350 4x4 Crew XLT "Centurion conversion Bronco" that the dealers all loved but not enough "love" to "show me the $". This is the truck that pioneered the Excursion theory. This was my first crew cab experience which Im sad to see go but couldnt resist the looks and feel of a 2000. If anyone knows of a Crew Cab candidate that may want to treat her as I have for cheap just holler. Thanks to you all again!
I am new to this site and I love it! You guys and gals are chuck full of information. Without this site I would have gone to the dealership fat, dumb, and happy. As a result, I was able to order my truck (F250, SD, CC, 4X4, XLT, Trailer pkg, off-road pkg, LS 3.73, V10, 265AT's, privacy glass, AM/FM/Cass/CD,captains chairs, red clearcoat, sliding window, power mirrors, SOF, block heater (for my five-times-a-year trips to Wyoming, keyless entry, and trlr hitch recvr. Man, that was a mouth full! My dealer said that from recent experience I could possibly expect delivery in mid-March. I actually ordered just before Xmas. I have read each and every post on this site and learned a wealth of information. Thanks to each and every one of you for this site. I will read daily to keep up with delivery information and learn to anticipate my delivery as all of you have for yours.
Had the 5 wheel hitch installed on Friday. Hooked up to the camper (27 footer) just to see how it would do. You didn't even know it was back there. Sure is a nice feeling!! Will have to double trailer the atv's, generator and other supplies so I hope it still feels the same. For some reason yesterday (guess the weather here was perfect) but the psd was so quiet I was amazed. It ran like a charm, so I drove around just smiling away. I assume it was a combination of weather and fuel. I just hope it is starting to calm down. Still have one minor glitch, my temp on computer is stuck on -40. Will have to have that reset, since we are having 70 degree days.
What set-up is your long awaited baby? Sorry to ramble on.
Mine is: 2000 F250,CC,SB,XLT,4X4,ESOF,V10,auto, 3.73 with limited slip,265's,trailer pkg., camper pkg.,power TT mirrors, privacy glass with slider, AM/FM/CD,clearcoat red with grey interior (40/20/20 seats-gotta haul three kids). Ordered 10/19/99.
Can't decide on a bedliner vs. LineX. My F150 has a bedliner. I've got a local client who owns the LineX franchise. Interesting business, he just got a fleet order to do 200 Fords.
I helped him get into business,so maybe he'll cut me a deal.
When speaking with a friend of mine who owns a 350 PSD she suggested I don't get the ESOF. Hers had problems with the hubs, and she ended up having manual hubs installed later. I then learned that the dealer I am working with puts manually locking hubs on all of their ESOF 250's. Sounds like the ESOF hubs may have a glitch. What do all of you prefer? And have any of you put manual hubs on your ESOF?
cowpokes-For everyone else I digress for just a moment...it's Sunday after all...I have two horses just over 17H. One is an older(23) Hannoverian dressage horse whom I bought as a schoolmaster (knew more than me so he could teach me). He is actually now ridden by someone else (we had a lot of success competing together a few years ago.) Now my main horse is a Cleveland Bay(ever heard of this breed?)/TB cross who is 5. I bought him at 2 and for the first time did all the backing and schooling myself. It has been such a rewarding experience. His main focus is also dressage, but we have done some jumping (the older I get the less of that I do. I used to event.) Right now I am doing a lot of trail riding. We have no snow this winter so it's great. I used to work in Colorado for a guiding outfit taking folks on day trips, overnights and I worked a few elk hunts. I miss that life, but it's a bit hard to do here in crowded New England.
I had the Line-X in my 98 150 and it looked great. I was planning on having another put in the 250 tomorrow but I just heard from my brother there is a new one on the market. Going to investigate it and let you know. Sounds like your set-up is going to be a fine looking truck. Ford has the best looking red on the market (just my opinion). I ordered the same set-up without the ESOF in the Lariat with the psd. I live on a gravel road so I had to stick with white and harvest gold(easy for me to keep clean). At just over 5' tall washing it is proving be quite a challenge. The top is almost never clean. But hey, I surely can't see. The one that does can wash it for me!! Other half says I am lucky I can see over the milk truck steering wheel. Oh yes toys, have to have them I also have three girls. The toys are much easier to take care of.
Ford had trouble with the ESOF when they first introduced the truck in 1998. They found a fix and made the change on the assembley. If your friend bought in the Spring or Fall of 1998, that could be the issue. Otherwise, I'm not sure. I use my ESOF all the time in subzero winter conditions with no problems. I don't do any serious off-roading, although I do go down some muddy roads to the fishing holes and I drive in some decent depth snow. Even with the ESOF, the trucks also have a manual lock that you can switch on the hubs to lock them in.
A new guy in my office has a Superduty PSD XL. He said something about having an idle adjustment on his truck that lets him idle it higher to get heat into the cab sooner. I haven't checked it out. This is the first I've heard anything about it. Did I misunderstand him? Interior heating time in the winter is a complaint I've heard from diesel owners occasionally.
mainecowgirl- As Brutus said above, all ESOF hubs have a manual lock position. This isn't something that the dealer you've been talking with installs on the trucks they sell, ESOF hubs come that way from the factory. I also have had no problems with ESOF, but then again with the lack of snow so far this winter in Maine, I haven't had much reason to use 4wd.
Brutus- An "Aux Idle Control" is an option with the PSD; my understanding is that it's main use is to keep RPMs at a particular setting when using the PTO. It's supposedly MUCH CHEAPER to get this with the truck as an ordered option, instead of getting it separately after taking delivery of the truck.
I've ordered the 5.4. I will never haul horses, or campers, maybe a small v-hull pontoon, or trailer for snow mobiles. I've read all 600 some respones to the forum, and realize the differences. Becuause of the wait, should I opt for the v10 over the 5.4. I want to make sure that I can push my way out of the show in my future driveway in colorado, and not get stuck in average 4x4 fun. Chances are that my baby will be doing more city travel for a couple of years than colorado. Just don't want to cut myself short for 425.00 dollars. But not sure that I want to wait 6 months. City boy, born in the country, moving back to the county, looooove these trucks! Leaving behind a 4x4 toyota extended, that can't haul anything.
Couple of thoughts on your posts: As a former diesel owner, I can tell you your winter driving pattern of 10-20 miles three times a week in cold weather would be murder on a diesel. They turn oil and coolant into acid that way, and eat the metal. I'm shopping for a new Superduty, too, and am probably more of a diesel prospect, running 20-25K a year and towing construction equipment, but I've decided the V10 is my choice. The Triton gas engines are great. We've rented several Ford vans with V8's and had excellent service. The 5.4 is a good engine, but probably a little undersize for serious towing in a heavy pickup like the SD. However, while you're at the Ford dealer, there is one more truck you might want to check out. Up until this year, they made a light-duty F250 with the same body style as the F150. This year they dropped that name and just offer an optional 7700 GVW package in the F150. It has heavier frame, brakes, wheels, etc., the 5.4 with automatic and 3.73 gears and is rated to tow over 8,000 lbs. It's only available as reg. cab, 8' or supercab 6.5' bed. If it meets your needs, they are much more available and a lot less money than the SD. But far be it from me to talk anyone out of the big one, if your heart's set on it. They're great trucks. Perhaps you'll meet my sister and her horse one day. She does eventing around New England, too. (And tows a big Kingston with an ancient F150). Happy trails.
I haven't had time to go to the dealer about the squeed on the drivers side. It happens when making left hand turns and sometimes when braking. Yesterday I noticed that my front bumper is about 3 inches higher on the drivers side than on the pass. side. Where the bumper curves around towards the tires I could fit my fingers between the bumper and the painted finish on the pass. side. On the drivers side I couldn't even get my fingers in!!.......Now when I take it in I will at least be able to focus them on the problem area. I just wonder if it was put on like this in the factory or if it happened during transport. There seems to be no damage or scratches in that area so it leads me to believe it was a factory flaw. Oh well....I guess I'll be taking it in this week or next.
I had trouble getting mine out of 4 low New Years Eve at the point of Hatteras, NC. It took me about 30 minutes of playing games with every combination of neutral and park rolling forward reverse to finally get the transfercase to release. I went back the next day though and could not recreate the problem. I was starting to blame it on the New Years celebrating.
Gee Dave, you don't actually think my dealer lied to me about the hubs, do you?? I think the guy is one of those fresh out of high school "kids" Brutus talked about awhile back. I am going to Wiscasset to check them out on your advise. Especially since everyone has convinced me that my notion about getting better service where you buy the truck is just that...a notion!
Dogwood-You have said exactly what I needed to hear to convince me against getting the PSD. I was pretty much decided that it was a bit much for my relatively small needs, but I was curious whether it would actually be bad for a diesel to drive it so little, and here's my answer. Thanks. I agree with everyone, though, that it is a fabulous engine for heavy working situations, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought my truck really had that kind of life. I was actually excited to look at a light duty 250 when I first started looking for trucks this year (and learned that they are now called heavy 150's), and I agree that it is probably exactly what I need, but I just have such a problem with the looks of the new 150's (and am so in love with the 250's looks) that I am going bigger. Call me crazy to spend the extra, but I like the bit of overkill for safety, and hell, I've got to look at the thing for the next 7 years or so, so I might as well be smiling while I'm looking! Thanks for the thoughts though.
dwucher: The 5.4L will serve your needs and do the job.. If your doin 4x4 rock crawlin, then theres no problem, you have a 4x4 low range. If you going to be putting bigger tires and goin muddin, then you might want to opt for the V10. In most cases, folks are getting the 5.4L's much faster than the V10s, so I don't think switching to the V10 will speed your truck order up.
dogwood: Actually the price of an F150 and the SuperDuty are very close (within $1000). Unless you get the diesel.
cowgirl: I'm with you, from a practical point of view I may have been able to do with an F150. But, I like the look and the little bit of extra room of the SuperDuty..
Gee Dave, you don't actually think my dealer lied to me about the hubs, do you?? I think the guy is one of those fresh out of high school "kids" Brutus talked about awhile back. I am going to Wiscasset to check them out on your advise. Especially since everyone has convinced me that my notion about getting better service where you buy the truck is just that...a notion!
Dogwood-You have said exactly what I needed to hear to convince me against getting the PSD. I was pretty much decided that it was a bit much for my relatively small needs, but I was curious whether it would actually be bad for a diesel to drive it so little, and here's my answer. Thanks. I agree with everyone, though, that it is a fabulous engine for heavy working situations, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought my truck really had that kind of life. I was actually excited to look at a light duty 250 when I first started looking for trucks this year (and learned that they are now called heavy 150's), and I agree that it is probably exactly what I need, but I just have such a problem with the looks of the new 150's (and am so in love with the 250's looks) that I am going bigger. Call me crazy to spend the extra, but I like the bit of overkill for safety, and hell, I've got to look at the thing for the next 7 years or so, so I might as well be smiling while I'm looking! Thanks for the thoughts though.
printed out an extensive "check-out" list from Ford-diesel.com (8 pages!). use the list to go over the beast REALLY good b4 taking possession (it's in the faq's) and you added another... check those bumpers! tomorrow's the big day. going to find where the hell this truck is, one way or another... even if I have to drive over there. there's been delays from ordering to build for a lot of people.. but OVER 6 weeks FROM build & still a no "see"? that's flat ludicrous. what'd they do? send the thing to Alaska & drop it off a mountain or something? hell, the factory's only 800 miles from Tampa (I could "push" it that far in 6 weeks!).
for others; wait is over 6 weeks from the build (on 11.27.99). STILL no truck. there can be delays from order to build for a lot of different reasons... but how about > 6 WEEK wait AFTER the build (when the config no longer matters)? that's what we're "facing" right now. anyone else beat this "record" (with a longer delay)... we'd like to hear from you. well, the dealer needs to "own up" & show some customer support any way you "slice" it... like "finding" this truck.
tom18... did you ever get that vopc thing straightened out? assume you have else would probably have heard from you by now, I suppose. note that the vopc for our order has been quite unreliable since the "lock-in". to the point of being about useless, quite frankly... they're STILL stating a ship date of 12.26 for eta week of 12.28. yeah, right.
Is there any kind of equation, formula or general rule that uses, among other things, the GVWR of the trailer you are hauling to give you the actual gear ratio that is needed to pull that trailer? I am really having a hard time deciding what I actually need vs. what may be nice to have but will, in reality, just be using up a lot of gasoline.
Also, in building my truck, there were two package options I was wondering about. What is the Heavy Service Suspension pkg. and the Max Front GAWR pkg., and what are they used for? I know I need the towing pkg., but am wondering about these two.
Sounds like the part time job I had when I was 10 helping my Dad wash his transfer trucks. We used a step ladder and a mop! $10 per truck: wash once in diesel fuel, once in soap & water. I have to stand in the door of my 150 now that I have a cap on it, but I used to stand in the bed. Trucks are a pain to wash and I'm 6'4". My better half has a fully automated wash system-me! Her van is spiffy!
That white and harvest gold combo looks very elegant when it's shiny. I'm partial to Ford (and U.Ga. bulldog)red. You're right, Ford red is like no other red on the road. Go DAWGS!
I have ESOF on our CC; we had it on our 93 Ford and it performed flawlessly. Don't believe the "offroaders." If you're really offroading you won't be in a SD and if you're hunting and fishing on Forest Service roads, the ESOF will perform just fine. If you're hunting and fishing OFF Forest roads, make sure I'm not around...I just might gitchcha' :-D Cowgirls ride Hanoverians and muley saddles in Maine, huh. That's like a fall from a 2 story building when one of those dumps you, isn't it?
I am new to the forum so forgive me if my question has been answered recently. Has anyone out there had a problem with brakes on the E350's? We have a fleet of 4 vans. They range in age from 95 to 99. 2 are still vans and two are 24 ft box vans with a walk through. Mine is the 95 with the International big Diesel and I have no complaints about the powertrain just the Whoa. It seems that under heavy braking only one front brake locks up. Couple that with a heavy load and rain and it feels like you are stopping on ice. We have had numerous people look at it and have been told everything from old suspension parts to failing brake pistons. Now my Van will have 280,000 on it this week but our newest Van only has about 60,000 on it and we are having the same problems. If you are moving down the road at a good clip and have to lock the brakes down you will absolutely flat-spot the right front tire as you fight to keep it on the road. I have had to intentionally run the truck against a curb to scrub off speed so I did not hit the car in front of me. When you drive 1500 miles in three days every week you are going to have people pull out in front of you, that is a fact. So it would be a nice bit of confidence to actually know that you are going to stop. I would appreciate any and all help. Feel free to email me at jdoub@alltel.net.
I've been reading this forum since October 99. Everyone's comments have helped me become a new SD owner. Since this is my first post, it may be a little long. I apologize in advance.
After much research (here and elsewhere) and talking with 4 local dealers, I finally placed an order 11/30/99 from Graves Motor in Illiopolis, IL (pop 1,000), the town where I grew up. Rich Graves (owner) indicated it would be only 6-8 weeks, others said 3-4 months. I took this with a grain of salt after reading all the posts here. Rich quoted me a price at invoice (no advertising). However, I had to test drive the trucks from other dealers (some more than an hour away) because Graves doesn't keep much inventory. This is how my experience went:
Nov 30, 1999 - ordered F250 4x2 CC Lariat, V10, auto, 3.73 ls, Capt Chairs, CD player, Telescopic trlr tow mirr, trlr tow pkg, hitch receiver, Oxford White over Harvest Gold, priority 11.
Dec 6, 1999 - Called VOPC after much research on this and the ford diesel forum. Scheduled for build week of January 3, 2000. Called Rich to see if he had the same information. He did and even gave me the VIN. I told him how much everyone on the forum was complaining about the long wait. He said Ford owed him some trucks since he had sold some F350 vans and Grand Marquis for them.
Dec 17, 1999 - Locked for production, scheduled 1/3, deliv 1/17
Dec 24, 1999 - Sched 1/3, deliv 1/17
Jan 3, 2000 - Sched 1/3, deliv 1/17
Now comes the good part!!
Jan 7, 2000 - Released from the foreign assembly plant. I called Rich to see when Louisville seceded from the union. He said he could not find where it had even been produced. However, later that day after I got home from work he called to say he had my found my truck. I asked him if that meant he had the invoice. He said, "No, I mean your truck is in my shop!!".
Jan 8, 2000 - I picked up my new truck and am in love with it. Rich did indicate the trip from Louisville to Illiopolis is by truck only, no rail involved.
I warned you this post would be long, but at least it had a happy ending for me. Hope this means the bottleneck is over and everyone can get their SD's.
I've looked at the same questions. Conclusion: If you're not towing max loads of 10,000 or so, and if you're ordering the V10, get 3.73 ratio, and I'd recommend limited slip. With a V8, 4.10 LS is the way to go. Front springs-get the snowplow package. If you get it with trailer tow pkg. it only adds $100 or so, it gives you 5200 lb. front springs (same as the max gawr and heavy service) instead of the stock 4600s, and it will be a big plus at resale time in Maine. BTW, have you seen the Kelly Blue Book site? They have the best listing of invoice and MSRP prices, and explain a lot of what you can and can't order. Like no camper package with snowplow package. They're at kbb.com. More happy trails.
I did get to look at a sample of that new bed liner. Is it from Line-X however it feels like very fine hair carpet. Cool concept because its would seem nothing would rattle if placed on it. I would be unsure of durability though. I did take a key and continue rubbing and it seemed like the fibers were wearing off. I think I will still with the original Line-X.
viperle - Still I like the red on the Ford. Maybe because this truck looks good in any color!! Can't stand to look at Dodge long enough to appreciate the color.
Hello again, I will get to the 1300lb dog in a minute.
Mainecowgirl, the two suspension packages you asked about are for a snow plow set-up and using the SD as a ambulance platform. I gather that you will not be using your SD for these I would see no reason to order them. The camper and towing are a different story, they have some commonality between them but the dupes are sorted out during the ordering.
I have not seen any response on my mirror question? am I the only, 99 owner that has a broken mirror problem?
Ok the big dog is really a Paint-Clydesdale mare. So MC I am sure you have a visual picture of what her chest and butt look like. She is just a big dog, kids are all over her, wonderful part of the family, BUT she rubs on things and destroys them, like mirrors on a SD!
Ken called this morning... the truck is STILL NOT at the rail head! (the vopc reports this too... no "arrived at ramp" message). however; rail yard believes truck is "side-railed" somewhere. they're trying to trace the thing but say it's like looking for needle in haystack until it gets to the yard (don't these people have computers nowadays?). once it gets to the yard they said we'd see it pretty quickly as the wait has now been quite extensive (after the build date). Ken said he'll call us on an update Wed. he also mentioned that Gator is running into an allocation issue because of THIS truck not getting here... have one sold but can't order until ours is out of the system. So Gator is also getting "anxious" about where the hell this truck is. hey. stocks up!... the only good news so far today.
mainecowgirl... I'd stay with the 3.73. but you only need the trailer tow package. if you plan on plowing snow (what's that stuff anymore, huh?) then you could opt for that package. my .02. you absolutely have no use for the camper package (I'd not purchase the camper package without also going with dually's (as this increases the bed carry capacity & lateral stability considerably as the main purpose of this package is to support slide-in truck campers)). but now you're talking F350 (drw isn't available in the 250 series). finally, note that Ford does NOT recommend the snow plow package unless PRIMARY usage is for that purpose. luck with your config choices.
I ordered with the snow plow package. Was told by Denver dealer that everyone orders them this way. My Fort Worth dealer didn't have a clue. I just want to make sure that I can plow my driveway, not everyone elses. What's up with this plow thing? I'ts my understanding that the hardware stays on all of the time. Does this add a lot of weight. What if I don't plan on getting the plow for a year or two. Thanks.
handgunhunter: I called most of the dealers in Alaska...Seekins (Fairbanks & Soldotna), Nye, that doofus Cal Worthington. The best deal I got up here was about $1300 over invoice from Autobytel using Seekins in Soldotna. Everyone else was closer to MSRP.
Regarding service departments... I've always been a firm believer in the service depts make the sales. The salesman or woman might make sure the i's are dotted and the t's crossed, but after that you live with the service dept. This really doesn't apply to my current situation now since the next closest Ford dealer to me is 350 miles away, but I'd recommend SD owners down in America check out prospective service depts before you ever let them touch your baby, warranty or not.
Up here PSDs, especially the newer ones, start unassisted at -10 or so. The "aux idle controller" can be set for about any rpm. My friend's got his set at about 1300 rpms, and after he hits his command start, once the oil pressure is up, the truck idles up to the set rpm. Makes for faster warm ups and is better for the motor, I think, by limiting the low speed idling. Also we plug our beasts in, especially when it's stupid cold...like the -55 forecast for tomorrow.
...absolutely right on the service dept. making the sale. Bought my wife a Taurus in August at a dealer about 50 miles away (only dealer that had the one we wanted). It needed service work 2 weeks later (stupid chip-in-key anti-theft), so I had it towed to the local place. 3 days and a loaner later, the Taurus was better than new and they earned a shot at my buisness when I ordered my SD in October. The service dept. definitely makes or breaks the dealer.
I saw an interesting article in the paper today (AP story). Seems Ford is partnering with Yahoo and GM is partnering with AOL so customers can start buying online. Now that's right up our alley!
Dealers complain about low margins of 3-6% on most new sales. Why not cut them out and let them have the luxury of reducing the sales force and spend the money on the really lucrative parts-service? One price sales as pioneered by Saturn never completely caught on because there was always the temptation to profiteer. Answer: Cut them out. Who's Ford's partners here? The dealer or the salespeople?
Remember the discussion awhile back about whether or not Ford is aware of this forum, our use of the VOPC,etc.?
Now, we know that: 1) Ford is not populated entirely by dummies or they couldn't make such nice trucks, 2) some of the forum members represented here over the last few months have or had ties to Ford dealerships, Ford Corp., etc., 3) Ford has a pretty good corp. website and with the Buyer Connection they have a testbed for letting the customers try out online ordering and systems support.
Stands to reason that this forum (Edmunds') among others, no doubt just might be monitored and be providing part of the feedback to Ford. If you were in marketing at Ford, would you want a geographically dispersed slice of America to analyze for free? Or maybe it's not free, so what? The Internet is a two way street for info. So if you're Ford, why not use it? Pretty neat, huh?
What if the VOPC is also used to track inquiries? Think about it. Anyone got caller ID? Any great problem cross analyzing phone number origin with dealer code and phone number? Maybe that's why they don't seem to care if we use it. A password would be simple to install, but it would cut off something Ford wants-primary market information. What if the inquiry rate from non-dealer numbers skyrocketed when the SD was introduced?
When you use the Buyer Connection site, doesn't it always require a zipcode for entry? Coincidence? Nope. Market research-obviously.
So where are we going? lilelmo's prognostication: You can order your 2001 F150 SuperCrew or 2001 SD online, finance it with People'sFirst.com online, watch it being built by way of "Ford Factorycam.com" online, see it fired up and driven off the line by video download from the internet,hear the first birth cry (as that PSD rumbles to life), see it loaded on the transporter by factorycams, track its progress with shipping software from the internet, and get an e-mail from the Buyer Connection when it arrives at your dealer with a request for a delivery appointment/pick up date and time. Your dealer cleans, preps, and brings it to your door. You transmit an authorization code to Peoplefirst.com and the money wired, the title is transferred, you go motoring. Bingo. No pain ownership. Now wouldn't that be cool?
What do you guys think? How far out is this? Am I on the right track or was it that enchilada that I had for lunch? :-)
Comments
If your local dealer is close on price and delivery time, it's always nice to give the local guys the business. However, many of us got signficantly better deals by going out of our local areas. Remember that you don't owe any dealer anything. They make money even if they sell the vehicle to you at dealer invoice. By not giving you a similar deal to what you can get out of the area, the local dealer has willingly made a decision to risk losing your business by offering a higher price that he thinks you will take rather than hassling with getting a ride to the out-of-the-area dealer.
It's unfortunate if the local dealer offers a competitive price, but doesn't have a large enough allotment to get you the truck in a reasonable time. A that point, you have to decide if you're willing to wait. My attitude is to keep personal feelings out of it unless you personally know the dealer. You're plucking down alot of money. You're in charge. It's all business. Although there are a lot of nice dealers out there, their #1 priority is to turn the highest profit margin they can.
ordered 2000 f250 sd excab 4x4 5.4 3.73 early nov.dealer said it was built dec. 20 should arrive by him the week of jan. 10
I think i'm going to sleep in it the first couple days.
I'm going to do a liner and maybe a cover I'll also need good mud flaps-any suggestions?
Also I want to do some striping nothing gaudy are there any sites out there where a guy can see some trucks and maybe get some ideas.
thanks
pungo: My truck is a F250, lariat,psd,4X4,not esof, camper pkg, tow pkg, could this still be the problem?
I haven't heard any negatives about Wiscasset's service department. I haven't had occasion to bring in my Super Duty yet. Eight or nine years ago, they did some warranty work for me on the transmission for my '87 F-150, and I was completely satisfied. But, things could have changed since then.
I would NEVER send anyone to Brunswick Ford to purchase a vehicle ("what will it take you to buy this truck today?"), but I don't have a problem with their service department. Most service work we've had done over the past several years, though, has been at Casco Bay Ford in Yarmouth, where we bought our '95 Explorer.
I really think that you should at least talk to the sales guys at Wiscasset, even if you only end up using them as leverage with another dealer. I know Wiscasset will be very competitive in both price and allocation. Good luck.
Dave
Order update: Ordered 10/31/99, "DORA" (actually VOC) 11/2. Checked with dealer yesterday. Spoke with GM and Fleet Sales Manager (and salesman). Very enlightening. Until now I have been dealing with my salesman. There are 20 something Superduties on order ahead of mine. Of those, 8 or 9 have the same major configuration (F350, CC, Lariat, V10, SRW, Auto, 4x4). Their allocation is the largest in the Washington region for any single dealership. Their allocation would have them get 1 or 2 of this configuration per month unless the factory has excess allocation to switch over. They hope to see more production following the Holidays and they say that this time of year is historically slow for new orders. They met with the district rep a day or two ago and passed along my frustration and in turn theirs because they say they can't pass along reliable status info to their customers. I think that they could have done a much better job and not try to pass the buck to the Ford Motor Company. Lessons learned and reiterates previous advice given in this forum (and which I didn't follow 100%) -
a. Deal with the Fleet Sales Manager - MAKE them show you their allocation before you order (the salesman told me in good faith info which was not accurate - managers don't share many of the details with the sales folks - they are just supposed to make the sale). MAKE them tell you how many orders are ahead of you. If you do deal with a salesperson, still insist on talking with the ones that know the allocation and dealership order status.
b. INSIST on receiving the DORA and any changes made after initial order (I am assuming that Ford will acknowledge officially any order modifications). I received what I thought was the DORA. Actually it was the Vehicle Order Confirmation (VOC). As it was in agreement with my verbal and written agreement with the salesman containing all the important items, I didn't quibble that it wasn't a "DORA". I called the VOPC right away and confirmed that indeed the order was in place. The problem is that the VOC had a Priority 10 - in actuality when looking at the order book yesterday and talking with the managers, my order is a priority 20. My salesman was unaware of this and showed the VOC to the GM. Somewhere along the line my priority got changed and I wasn't informed. Apparently all orders at this dealership for "retail" are done at a priority 20 while those vehicles destined for the lot are ordered at a priority 40.
I have written a note to the owners and expressed my extreme displeasure with the entire progress (or lack of) in this deal. I told them that as far as I am concerned this is a breach of contract. We shall see what transpires. All other dealers in the area that I contacted indicated about a 6 month wait. I went with these guys because they "told" me but didn't prove that they had the allocation to get my truck in 2 to 3 months. Looks like that's what it will be - 6 months. With over 2 months invested waiting now, I might as well stick with this dealer and try to get anything extra I can out of them as compensation (not that they have expressed much sympathy). I am not a happy camper at all.
Keep up the great posts. I enjoy this forum a great deal. Sorry for the long winded note...
Personally I waited 22 weeks and took the time to log on and read these posts. I was able to learn a lot of information and get a chuckle at the same time!! Where else could you find a cup holder remedy before your truck even arrives or what's best to take with you when you take cover in your bunker on New Years Eve!!! Relax, it WILL get here and when it does you will forget about the long wait!!
Mainecowgirl: I haven't had a problem with buying a vehicle in one place then having service done at another!! Your moneys green and they will take it!! Never have run into a service department that cares, or even asks for that matter, where I purchased my vehicle. What is nice about having service done in one location though is the fact that they will have a running history of the maintenance performed.
GOOD LUCK to BOTH of YOU!!!!
northpole1: just read that you went to "America" to get your truck, obviously because no one in AK would deal with you. What was the "best price" you were offered in AK?
Brutus: drop me an e-mail if you are interested in foglights. I'm putting together a "small" order thru the commercial dept and have no problem with ordering foglamps for you to install your self at my price, just let me know.
for those waiting: it is without a doubt worth it!!! Enjoy.
Another thing is that the service guys are mechanics who have had training to do what they do. A salesmen might be a slick talking young whipper-snapper a few years removed from high school. I can't imagine that it goes over too well when he has a good month and his paycheck far exceeds the mechanic's check. Most service manager's want busy service departments, which generally means repeat business from happy customers.
handgunhunter, my wallet is currently in post-Christmas withdrawal, so I'll pass on the luxury of fog lights for now. Thanks for the offer, though! It's time for me to start rebuilding the reserves for fishing/camping season. The days are getting longer, Fur Rendezvous next month, Iditarod in March (go Swenson!), and then it's summer.....well almost.
service and sales: I bought my old F150 where I've ordered my 00 F250 CC, but I've had all my dealer work except one recall done at the local place and I'll have my new SD worked on there, too. My purchase dealer is about 30 miles away in another town. Never a bad word about where I bought the 150 when it's in for service locally and always (so far) good service. The others are right, green is green and I'll bet it all comes out in the wash, so far as who gets what done, where.
I'll wait, somewhat impatiently I guess, but I'll wait. That reminds me, I haven't checked the order status lately (been too busy-yeah, that's heresy I know). My wife didn't understand why I ordered before Christmas (Oct. 19) if I wanted to get it by Feb or Mar, but a buddy got his CC last summer and it took four months, too. Just so long as I've got it before a)anything expensive goes wrong with my old 150 and b) before I get ready for the new camper. We did a big cross country last year in a popup to Colorado and this year, it's SD and bunkhouse to the northwoods! To quote the inestimable crazyelvis, Yee Haw!!!
Reminds of that old tongue in cheek prayer,"God grant me patience, quick!"
I was out and about yesterday and cruised by another Ford dealer (you know, just checking things out). I 'bout ran off the road when I saw a truck sitting there rigged out and colored just like "mine." I pulled off across the street and just looked a looooonnnnnggg time. Spouses don't seem to understand it, but having to work on your toy is not all that much of a punishment, is it?
This IS a good site and has a ton of nice folks. I really enjoy it.
Brutus... I can relate to that post Christmas withdrawal. The offers always there come PFD time next fall.
Resale - I thought about your question, Brutus but decided to buy now instead of waiting. I figured there would probably be some bugs with the engine the first couple of years and I already had 115,000+ on my old T-100 (which Toyota stopped making). I think the year of the truck has more to do with resale value than the engine. Several people in the Ford-Diesel forum say they would rather have the current Navistar than the new Cummins. I think the Cummins runs higher RPMs.
L/S - so far, I have had no problems with the regular 3.73 axle in my F-350 PSD 4WD. The roads to my house have been snow-packed since I picked it up (12/4) and I've had no problems (even stopping and starting on a hill). From what I've read, I would have trouble if I got my right side stuck in a ditch, but I try to avoid those situations.
3.73 / 4.10 - My dealer told me that the PSD was only available with the 3.73 (but I wasn't looking for a dually so that could be why he didn't mention the 4.10). The PSD is a low RPM engine it red lines around 3400 RPMs. I can't say that I would recommend the 4.10. I'm running a little over 2000 RPMs at 70 mph in overdrive. BTW, I got 17.9+ mpg on my last two tanks with the PSD/3.73/6spd combo. From past posts, it seems that the DRWs hurt mileage more than the automatic transmission.
From my test drive the PSD seemed more powerful than the V-10. Most likely, my altitude. I think another reason was the gear rations: the V-10 I drove was a 4.30 and seemed to whine like a small engine. The PSD was a 3.73 and ran at a lot lower RMPS. In Colorado its hard to find a gas engine to test drive - almost all of the super duties in stock are PSDs.
Bottom line: Both engines are powerful and everyone should get what they like. I think that's more important than a little difference in cost one way or the other.
Sorry about the rambling...
see go but couldnt resist the looks and feel of a 2000. If anyone knows of a Crew Cab candidate that may want to treat her as I have for cheap just holler.
Thanks to you all again!
Thanks to each and every one of you for this site. I will read daily to keep up with delivery information and learn to anticipate my delivery as all of you have for yours.
What set-up is your long awaited baby? Sorry to ramble on.
Mine is: 2000 F250,CC,SB,XLT,4X4,ESOF,V10,auto, 3.73 with limited slip,265's,trailer pkg., camper pkg.,power TT mirrors, privacy glass with slider, AM/FM/CD,clearcoat red with grey interior (40/20/20 seats-gotta haul three kids). Ordered 10/19/99.
Can't decide on a bedliner vs. LineX. My F150 has a bedliner. I've got a local client who owns the LineX franchise. Interesting business, he just got a fleet order to do 200 Fords.
I helped him get into business,so maybe he'll cut me a deal.
cowpokes-For everyone else I digress for just a moment...it's Sunday after all...I have two horses just over 17H. One is an older(23) Hannoverian dressage horse whom I bought as a schoolmaster (knew more than me so he could teach me). He is actually now ridden by someone else (we had a lot of success competing together a few years ago.) Now my main horse is a Cleveland Bay(ever heard of this breed?)/TB cross who is 5. I bought him at 2 and for the first time did all the backing and schooling myself. It has been such a rewarding experience. His main focus is also dressage, but we have done some jumping (the older I get the less of that I do. I used to event.) Right now I am doing a lot of trail riding. We have no snow this winter so it's great. I used to work in Colorado for a guiding outfit taking folks on day trips, overnights and I worked a few elk hunts. I miss that life, but it's a bit hard to do here in crowded New England.
Sounds like your set-up is going to be a fine looking truck. Ford has the best looking red on the market (just my opinion). I ordered the same set-up without the ESOF in the Lariat with the psd. I live on a gravel road so I had to stick with white and harvest gold(easy for me to keep clean). At just over 5' tall washing it is proving be quite a challenge. The top is almost never clean. But hey, I surely can't see. The one that does can wash it for me!! Other half says I am lucky I can see over the milk truck steering wheel. Oh yes toys, have to have them I also have three girls. The toys are much easier to take care of.
A new guy in my office has a Superduty PSD XL. He said something about having an idle adjustment on his truck that lets him idle it higher to get heat into the cab sooner. I haven't checked it out. This is the first I've heard anything about it. Did I misunderstand him? Interior heating time in the winter is a complaint I've heard from diesel owners occasionally.
As Brutus said above, all ESOF hubs have a manual lock position. This isn't something that the dealer you've been talking with installs on the trucks they sell, ESOF hubs come that way from the factory. I also have had no problems with ESOF, but then again with the lack of snow so far this winter in Maine, I haven't had much reason to use 4wd.
Brutus-
An "Aux Idle Control" is an option with the PSD; my understanding is that it's main use is to keep RPMs at a particular setting when using the PTO. It's supposedly MUCH CHEAPER to get this with the truck as an ordered option, instead of getting it separately after taking delivery of the truck.
Dave
Dogwood-You have said exactly what I needed to hear to convince me against getting the PSD. I was pretty much decided that it was a bit much for my relatively small needs, but I was curious whether it would actually be bad for a diesel to drive it so little, and here's my answer. Thanks. I agree with everyone, though, that it is a fabulous engine for heavy working situations, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought my truck really had that kind of life.
I was actually excited to look at a light duty 250 when I first started looking for trucks this year (and learned that they are now called heavy 150's), and I agree that it is probably exactly what I need, but I just have such a problem with the looks of the new 150's (and am so in love with the 250's looks) that I am going bigger. Call me crazy to spend the extra, but I like the bit of overkill for safety, and hell, I've got to look at the thing for the next 7 years or so, so I might as well be smiling while I'm looking! Thanks for the thoughts though.
The 5.4L will serve your needs and do the job..
If your doin 4x4 rock crawlin, then theres no problem, you have a 4x4 low range. If you going to be putting bigger tires and goin muddin, then you might want to opt for the V10.
In most cases, folks are getting the 5.4L's much faster than the V10s, so I don't think switching to the V10 will speed your truck order up.
dogwood:
Actually the price of an F150 and the SuperDuty are very close (within $1000). Unless you get the diesel.
cowgirl: I'm with you, from a practical point of view I may have been able to do with an F150. But, I like the look and the little bit of extra room of the SuperDuty..
Y2K F250 XLT SC, 4x2, 5.4L, 5sp, 4.10LS
Dogwood-You have said exactly what I needed to hear to convince me against getting the PSD. I was pretty much decided that it was a bit much for my relatively small needs, but I was curious whether it would actually be bad for a diesel to drive it so little, and here's my answer. Thanks. I agree with everyone, though, that it is a fabulous engine for heavy working situations, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought my truck really had that kind of life.
I was actually excited to look at a light duty 250 when I first started looking for trucks this year (and learned that they are now called heavy 150's), and I agree that it is probably exactly what I need, but I just have such a problem with the looks of the new 150's (and am so in love with the 250's looks) that I am going bigger. Call me crazy to spend the extra, but I like the bit of overkill for safety, and hell, I've got to look at the thing for the next 7 years or so, so I might as well be smiling while I'm looking! Thanks for the thoughts though.
for others; wait is over 6 weeks from the build (on 11.27.99). STILL no truck. there can be delays from order to build for a lot of different reasons... but how about > 6 WEEK wait AFTER the build (when the config no longer matters)? that's what we're "facing" right now. anyone else beat this "record" (with a longer delay)... we'd like to hear from you. well, the dealer needs to "own up" & show some customer support any way you "slice" it... like "finding" this truck.
tom18... did you ever get that vopc thing straightened out? assume you have else would probably have heard from you by now, I suppose. note that the vopc for our order has been quite unreliable since the "lock-in". to the point of being about useless, quite frankly... they're STILL stating a ship date of 12.26 for eta week of 12.28. yeah, right.
Also, in building my truck, there were two package options I was wondering about. What is the Heavy Service Suspension pkg. and the Max Front GAWR pkg., and what are they used for? I know I need the towing pkg., but am wondering about these two.
That white and harvest gold combo looks very elegant when it's shiny. I'm partial to Ford (and U.Ga. bulldog)red. You're right, Ford red is like no other red on the road. Go DAWGS!
I'll look forward to your report. Thanks.
No, I must disagree with you about Ford Red "is like no other red on the road?.
Although I drive a Ford now, I must admit that the Dodge Red looks very nice.
Cowgirls ride Hanoverians and muley saddles in Maine, huh. That's like a fall from a 2 story building when one of those dumps you, isn't it?
After much research (here and elsewhere) and talking with 4 local dealers, I finally placed an order 11/30/99 from Graves Motor in Illiopolis, IL (pop 1,000), the town where I grew up. Rich Graves (owner) indicated it would be only 6-8 weeks, others said 3-4 months. I took this with a grain of salt after reading all the posts here. Rich quoted me a price at invoice (no advertising). However, I had to test drive the trucks from other dealers (some more than an hour away) because Graves doesn't keep much inventory. This is how my experience went:
Nov 30, 1999 - ordered F250 4x2 CC Lariat, V10, auto, 3.73 ls, Capt Chairs, CD player, Telescopic trlr tow mirr, trlr tow pkg, hitch receiver, Oxford White over Harvest Gold, priority 11.
Dec 6, 1999 - Called VOPC after much research on this and the ford diesel forum. Scheduled for build week of January 3, 2000. Called Rich to see if he had the same information. He did and even gave me the VIN. I told him how much everyone on the forum was complaining about the long wait. He said Ford owed him some trucks since he had sold some F350 vans and Grand Marquis for them.
Dec 17, 1999 - Locked for production, scheduled 1/3, deliv 1/17
Dec 24, 1999 - Sched 1/3, deliv 1/17
Jan 3, 2000 - Sched 1/3, deliv 1/17
Now comes the good part!!
Jan 7, 2000 - Released from the foreign assembly plant. I called Rich to see when Louisville seceded from the union. He said he could not find where it had even been produced. However, later that day after I got home from work he called to say he had my found my truck. I asked him if that meant he had the invoice. He said, "No, I mean your truck is in my shop!!".
Jan 8, 2000 - I picked up my new truck and am in love with it. Rich did indicate the trip from Louisville to Illiopolis is by truck only, no rail involved.
I warned you this post would be long, but at least it had a happy ending for me. Hope this means the bottleneck is over and everyone can get their SD's.
viperle - Still I like the red on the Ford. Maybe because this truck looks good in any color!! Can't stand to look at Dodge long enough to appreciate the color.
I will get to the 1300lb dog in a minute.
Mainecowgirl, the two suspension packages you asked about are for a snow plow set-up and using the SD as a ambulance platform. I gather that you will not be using your SD for these I would see no reason to order them. The camper and towing are a different story, they have some commonality between them but the dupes are sorted out during the ordering.
I have not seen any response on my mirror question? am I the only, 99 owner that has a broken mirror problem?
Ok the big dog is really a Paint-Clydesdale mare.
So MC I am sure you have a visual picture of what her chest and butt look like. She is just a big dog, kids are all over her, wonderful part of the family, BUT she rubs on things and destroys them, like mirrors on a SD!
Sorry for getting off track folks.
Cowpokes
mainecowgirl... I'd stay with the 3.73. but you only need the trailer tow package. if you plan on plowing snow (what's that stuff anymore, huh?) then you could opt for that package. my .02. you absolutely have no use for the camper package (I'd not purchase the camper package without also going with dually's (as this increases the bed carry capacity & lateral stability considerably as the main purpose of this package is to support slide-in truck campers)). but now you're talking F350 (drw isn't available in the 250 series). finally, note that Ford does NOT recommend the snow plow package unless PRIMARY usage is for that purpose. luck with your config choices.
Regarding service departments... I've always been a firm believer in the service depts make the sales. The salesman or woman might make sure the i's are dotted and the t's crossed, but after that you live with the service dept. This really doesn't apply to my current situation now since the next closest Ford dealer to me is 350 miles away, but I'd recommend SD owners down in America check out prospective service depts before you ever let them touch your baby, warranty or not.
Up here PSDs, especially the newer ones, start unassisted at -10 or so. The "aux idle controller" can be set for about any rpm. My friend's got his set at about 1300 rpms, and after he hits his command start, once the oil pressure is up, the truck idles up to the set rpm. Makes for faster warm ups and is better for the motor, I think, by limiting the low speed idling. Also we plug our beasts in, especially when it's stupid cold...like the -55 forecast for tomorrow.
Dealers complain about low margins of 3-6% on most new sales. Why not cut them out and let them have the luxury of reducing the sales force and spend the money on the really lucrative parts-service? One price sales as pioneered by Saturn never completely caught on because there was always the temptation to profiteer. Answer: Cut them out. Who's Ford's partners here? The dealer or the salespeople?
Remember the discussion awhile back about whether or not Ford is aware of this forum, our use of the VOPC,etc.?
Now, we know that:
1) Ford is not populated entirely by dummies or they couldn't make such nice trucks,
2) some of the forum members represented here over the last few months have or had ties to Ford dealerships, Ford Corp., etc.,
3) Ford has a pretty good corp. website and with the Buyer Connection they have a testbed for letting the customers try out online ordering and systems support.
Stands to reason that this forum (Edmunds') among others, no doubt just might be monitored and be providing part of the feedback to Ford. If you were in marketing at Ford, would you want a geographically dispersed slice of America to analyze for free? Or maybe it's not free, so what? The Internet is a two way street for info. So if you're Ford, why not use it? Pretty neat, huh?
What if the VOPC is also used to track inquiries? Think about it. Anyone got caller ID? Any great problem cross analyzing phone number origin with dealer code and phone number? Maybe that's why they don't seem to care if we use it. A password would be simple to install, but it would cut off something Ford wants-primary market information. What if the inquiry rate from non-dealer numbers skyrocketed when the SD was introduced?
When you use the Buyer Connection site, doesn't it always require a zipcode for entry? Coincidence? Nope. Market research-obviously.
So where are we going? lilelmo's prognostication: You can order your 2001 F150 SuperCrew or 2001 SD online, finance it with People'sFirst.com online, watch it being built by way of "Ford Factorycam.com" online, see it fired up and driven off the line by video download from the internet,hear the first birth cry (as that PSD rumbles to life), see it loaded on the transporter by factorycams, track its progress with shipping software from the internet, and get an e-mail from the Buyer Connection when it arrives at your dealer with a request for a delivery appointment/pick up date and time. Your dealer cleans, preps, and brings it to your door. You transmit an authorization code to Peoplefirst.com and the money wired, the title is transferred, you go motoring. Bingo. No pain ownership. Now wouldn't that be cool?
What do you guys think? How far out is this? Am I on the right track or was it that enchilada that I had for lunch? :-)