Can anyone tell me of a place in central New York or North central PA that will order a F250 at or near invoice? Or if there is a good place on the Net to find this kind of deal? Thanks All !!
6 weeks and not at the other end of the rail? I've been reading all sorts of horror stories in the computer press about railroad IT mergers in the last year, wonder if that's affecting?
My truck sat at this end of the rail line for 4 weeks while the delivery truck waited to make it worth the trip to my dealer. Then finally, in one day, my dealer got a whole hauler's worth (4 trucks) - the last one arrived at this end of the rail line just the day before. He says that this is usual for him on duallies (they don't fit the typical car carrier) - the haulers don't want partial loads. If the customer bugs him enough (I didn't because I was out of town) he'll drive up and pick it up individually. All I can say is keep bugging your salesman. It'll be worth it.
When ordering the Snow Plow Pack You ordered a higher spring rate, 5500# which does increase the front ride height over the standard spring 4600#.
No plow for a while.... No problem-just a little stiffer up front but nothing to complain about. You'll notice more control and less front end dip when the plow is on. Not a bad setup for a winch either.
I opted for the SPP with trailer tow when I ordered mine but I dont even plow. I did like the fact that at the dealer a f250 w/ the package sat equally as high as the f350 without.
What do you mean with the "equipment stays on there" Do you mean a minute mount set up?
I've been voicing the buy-on-line, directly from the manufacturer strategy for quite a while. When I first logged on to this site, I use to participate in the Smart Shoppers conference. I use to get into some, shall we say, challenging conversations with some agitated car salesmen who would disagree with my negotiating advice. One of the ideas I raised was "If I know exactly what I want to buy, including option order codes that I got off this site and kbb, why do I need you?". Needless to say, that didn't go over any better with them than when I mentioned the on-line buying idea. I think it is coming in the future.
The one thing that I see that still needs to be worked out is that most people still need to test drive a vehicle before they are certain they know which vehicle they want. Until Ford has a way to let people test drive their vehicles without going to a dealer, they can't risk alienating the dealers. The dealers will revolt if Ford sells on-line or directly from the factory since people will be using the dealer to test drive the vehicles and then ordering directly from Ford and shutting the dealer out of any profit.
One idea that I always thought was a good idea was for Ford to have regional test drive and Q&A service centers that were staffed by salaried or hourly employees. They could even have terminals set up for ordering vehicles. The number of these centers and distance between them would likely be based on population, which basically is the same thing that dictates the number of dealerships in the area. People will drive a few hours to have a no-hassle test drive.
As far as funding these service centers, Ford can easily do that by keeping the 3% holdback of all vehicles bought on-line. The holdback would normally be credited back to the dealerships.
The other issue that would still need to be resolved is that you still want Ford authorized service centers on the local level. When dealerships close their doors, the service departments go with them.
I don't see on-line auto buying happening overnight, but it will happen eventually. The logistics are going to take some working out.
I ordered the tow package also. I was under the impression that there would be some hardware installed on the front end that would stay on the truck even when the plow is disconnected. I haven't checked into it much yet, just wanted to make sure that I ordered the truck with the proper setup.
Does anyone here know where I can buy at or near invoice in the central NY or north central PA area? I would like to order a 2000 F250 SD 4X4 Extended Cab
Anyone checked out www.carsdirect.com? They are a complete buy-online service. You price out the car and options you want, apply for financing, even pick up your extended warranty on-line. Depending on which state you live in, apparently they will even bring the car to your work or home on a small (or large for SuperDuties!) flat-bed truck. You do the inspection, sign the papers and it's yours!
I considered using these guys to buy my SuperDuty, but (a) their prices are a little high and (b) once I realized how big a deal the allocation issue was I decided that they probably don't have a great SuperDuty allocation :-)
However, if you look at what they are trying to accomplish, and compare it to some of the posts in this forum, you can see that full on-line ordering is not that far off...
Many dealers see this trend as well, which is why they put so much effort into their service departments. Last week, I took my Toyota Tacoma in for service, and I was treated like royalty! Free rental car, a couple of callbacks during the day to update me on the progress of my car - a level of service that I had never seen before!
it wouldn't bother me to eliminate the salesman-the guy i'm buying from ain't that bad but i have sure run into some jerks along the way. i really thought buying a new truck would be more fun than this but from reading the posts on this site it's worth it when you drive it off the lot. i stopped at the dealer tonite he said he figured my f250 xlt sd sb 4x4 5.4 would be in this week, he showed me the invoice, they built it just the way i ordered it
I raised the question some time ago about Ford knowing about this site as well as us contacting the VOPC. Reason being, just as lilelmo cites, they have to be checking us out. They have to be. I would be surprised if Ford is not tallying calls to the VOPC. I too saw the article in the paper today about the alliance of Ford with Yahoo and GM with AOL. Certainly the dealers will protest vehemently about this arrangement if they progress to direct sales and bypass the dealers. I'm sure it will happen, just take a bit of time. My dealer is already worried to death about Ford going in and buying up dealerships around the country. They were curious about whether or not such dealerships are getting better allocations. I understand their concern. Creates additional distrust in the industry. We'll see what shakes out.
Also FYI - my dealer told me that Texas seems to be getting a huge allocation of the Superduties these days.
Called dealer today to find out where my DORA is? after 3 weeks ( I allowed for vacation so waited till now) He said "oh yeah, you need your numbers to call in, don't you?" Said he would get back to me when he had 'part of vin' , says they don't request DORA until then.
On the form that I do have 'the Vehicle order confirmation' there is an order number of 4 digits. I have called KY using that number and get 'clean and unscheduled'. Is this 4 digit number the right one? Also on this, it list the priority as 33. The slesman said that he sent it in as 10 but that Ford changed it to 33. He is suppose to check on that too. Now to see if I am just getting the run-around....
For those of us in the SD market...we are a picky bunch who know EXACTLY what we want. Probably 80% of us who are computer literate could order online and have no problem. But what are the percentages of us who are computer literate. Plus, as stated before, every one of us went to test drive the truck before we bought. Using a computer is OK once you know what you want but you have to have a dealership in order to find out what exactly it is that you do want. And for people buying a Taurus or Escort wagon....what do they care about ordering online. They just drive in ...trade the old car and drive off with the new one. Plus...the trade....where are your trade ins going to go?? The dealer performs a service right there that would be VERY hard to cut out. I personally like the trade in process. I don't have to have strangers coming to my house and put up with title transfers and plate transfers and stuff like that. Online shopping may happen in a small percentage of total sales someday....but it will never replace the dealer totally. KILL THE TRAIN PEOPLE!!!....STINKS LEWAC!!!!
I am really going to stick my neck out here for a sec and tell you something that I think you might be looking for. When you order the Snow Plow Pkg. you are just getting the heavy springs and alternator you'll need for when you eventually buy your snow plow. You are going to have a stiffer ride up front, but you won't have any visible extra hardware. When you finally decide that you need to start plowing your driveway, you will then go to an independent dealer and get a plow. I have a Fischer Minute Mount plow that I got with a hand-held remote (for turning the plow blade) and have been plowing my farm for three years with my F150....I only plow my own space as well or I would definitely do it with a heavier truck. With a minute mount you really have very limited hardware on your truck when the plow is off. It's a great plow setup, and they are made right down the road from me here in Maine! Of course, the "minute" part of minute mount can be anywhere from 3-30 depending on how level the ground you unhooked your plow on is! Hope this helps.
All...I'm trying to remember, but I think the towing pkg. on my '93 F150 included some sort of heavy duty coolant(transmission as well) system. I haven't seen any mention of this in the F250 options, but it is dawning on me that because this is a super duty truck that may be all included as is. Is this right? Won't I need extra cooling systems for towing? I could be asking my dealer all these questions, but you all are so much nicer!
cowpokes...I'd like to see a paint-clydesdale some day. I'm surprised you didn't lose the whole front quarter panel!
Hey thanks for the info. I actually printed out the KBB new car pricing form and have it in front of me. Half the time I ask you all a question and then dive into all the pages and find my answers! A bit lazy I guess.
I won't be plowing with my new F250. I had something to prove a few years ago...single woman on her farm...yada, yada, yada... I am hiring someone to do it for me now. I got so sick of unhooking the trailer, hooking up the plow, unhooking the plow, hooking up the trailer. Yikes!
As mainecowgirl said, the plow is detachable with very little hardware left. I had a Meyer snow plow on my old truck but the mounting brackets on the bottom would bottom out in dips and driveways and would often hit curbs when parking in front of a store. During frequent storm season, I would leave the hydraulic setup on the front of my truck and remove the blade. Without the heavier springs in front, the hydraulic pump and fixture really weighted down the front of the truck. I think Western Snow Plow has a new setup that allows you to quickly remove both the blade and the hydraulic pump in one step. I used to need a snow plow because I lived on county roads that were rarely plowed. No I live on a private road that is always plowed and they plow my 500' driveway for $15. Not worth the trouble of plowing myself.
Here are some interesting gear ratio numbers I found on another site before I ordered. I didn't save the 5 speed manual because I was only interested in the PSD.
Well I finally did it. I broke and have decided to order a 2000 cc PSD 4X4 with the options that I want. I have a few questions after reading the forum and before ordering the truck.
1) What is the VOPC and how do you use to check the status?
2) I have read on other forums if you join some farm org (cost $30-50) Ford will give you a rebate of $500. Has anyone heard of this or done this?
In my very humble opinion, I think that an online order status page would be a great customer satisfier for Ford. Ford would have to invest time/money to make the system more reliable/easy to use/granular than the current phone system, but I think the benefits would include:
1. Better customer experience. If I know where my truck is in the process, my expectations are better set as to when I will see my beast, I'll have a whole lot less stress coming out of the process and feel better about Ford.
2. Ford cold do a "whole lota marketing" around such site. Selling the Ford brand, information on how the trucks are built (love Brutus's idea of multiple "factory cams"), maintenance information, "just ask the experts" column, chat's with Ford SD engineers, chat's with KTP assembly people, selling aftermarket upgrades (your more likely to buy those mud flaps when your baby is new, right?), owners clubs, etc. Damn, Ford oughta hire me to do this for them (and I just happen to be in that business) :-)
3. Less phone calls to dealer asking for truck status. Dealer can concentrate more time on selling.
I suppose some dealers would not like the loss of control such a system would bring, but I for one think this would be something that would set Ford apart, and it's a site I would probably visit many times over.
Obviously you're all right about the dealers never going away, but someday (soon) e-business will be a significant part of the commercial world. The average econobox buyer won't care and the Internet business growth rate will plateau at some point, but...for the few, the able, and the willing, what a neat concept. Glad you liked the factorycam idea. Maybe we can all recommend sdman to Ford and help him out.
I ordered the camper package not for the capacity to carry a slide in, but for the "overload" capacity (i.e. helper spring leaves) and the extra rear sway bar. I don't have a larger camper (27-30') yet, but have heard horror stories from friends about sway on bumper pulls with F150's and I've experienced it myself with Jeeps and such. I have no interest in fifth wheels because of the cost. Was this overkill on a 250 SB,CC?
I need some advice on tire pressures. Sticker on the truck says to run the fronts at 55 PSI and the rears at 70 PSI. Would it hurt to raise the fronts to 70? This is my first vehicle to run pressures this high (and all my other cars called to run equal pressures all the way around). For info, I have a 250 SC SB V-10 w/ LT265/75's.
Factory cams....talking with factory workers....and Ford engineers.....That would take quite a lot of money. Guess who would be paying for it. If you look at total truck sales vs. the people in here and in FordDeisel.com there would be a large disparity. I don't think most people care about watching some truck come down the assembly line. What is the percentage of people ordering vehicles vs. the ones who just show up at the dealer and take what he has in stock. I'm sure that there are more SD people actually ordering their trucks compared to other models in the Ford line. I don't mean to be negative....I would be interested in some of the stuff mentioned....but where does it end. I would bet that the factory workers would just love having cameras with customers watching them. And as for informational pages with technical info.....How technical do these pages get.....Hell...you sometimes have trouble communicating with the service dept at the dealership....how would technical stuff be handled via internet relations. I think forums like this one answer the aftermarket and a lot of the time actual Ford technical questions just fine. Where else can someone go to discuss tire pressure, tire size concerns, axel ratios, and so on????? That is why we come here.....I think these forums ought to be commercialized much more. If I were edmunds I would be doing some national advertising about this web site.....there are TONS of people out there that don't know the valuable info that is attainable in here. Before I found this site I had no idea about dealer pricing. I probably saved around $7000 on my last two car purchases with info attained on this site. Plus having this particular forum to pick the brains of people who already owned and were ordering the SD saved me alot of time and trouble. In short....Ford knows there are sites like this out there....and sites like this are already doing what some of you are talking about having Ford impliment. I just think it would cost us as the consumer in the sticker price....plus how long would each of us use the service??? Only in the time our truck was in production.....Once it is here what good would a factory cam be .....oh well....I'm just a windbag/doomsdayer anyway....what do I know??!!!
That's the info I was looking for. Minute mount sounds just fine. It would really be nice to get that 15.00 deal like chrispal. The road to my driveway is a county road, and it is plowed always. I will have to check it out. Thanks
tblaney - I have been a member of Farm Bureau for many years. They have been around forever and provide lobbying and other services for farmers and ranchers. They also sell the full gammet of insurance. I have had my auto and house insurance with them for many years and I have always been pleased with them ...... ANYWAY ..... They have an annual associate membership for non farmers that is I believe $30. One must be a member in order to purchase their insurance..... Ford Motor Company has had a deal on and off for years with Farm Bureau where FoMoCo will send you a $500 check if you buy a Ford pickup and have a Farm Bureau membership. You'll need to check with your dealer or your local Farm Bureau salespeople about it though ...... I believe you must be a member for at least 30 days before you order the vehicle! ..... I am patiently waiting for my $500 check right now and I got my SD for $49 under invoice to begin with .... SOOOOO .... not such a bad deal.
Gas mileage update on 250 CC Lariat V-10 auto 4X4 with 3.73 LS with 340 miles on it ......... REALLY CRUMBY ..... but who cares ...... I've decided that the USA needs to move faster in the direction of alternate renewable energy sources and I am going to try to do my part to use up the oil resources as fast as I can...... I haven't checked the size of pipe going from the gas tank to the engine but I bet it is at least 4 inchs in diameter ..... The V-10 will take as much gas as you want to give her ....
For you guys driving the PSD's, my brother just stopped through (Yukon, OK America) on his way moving from cold country .... Iowa ... to warm country ... southern Texas ... He drives a 2K 350 dually PSD with auto and pulls a 38 foot 5th wheel condomoblium. Think he said the weight of the camper is 12K# before loading with clothes and beer. Anyway ... he said he got 7.4 MPG driving 70 most of the way. One problem he said he noticed is that the auto transmission oscillated hard when shifting from OD to third going up hills .... he said he didn't have any trouble maintaining 70 MPH though with such a big rig.
Someone mentioned personalized tags for SD's a while back ... I chuckeled while driving through Kansas City a couple months ago when I saw a SD with the personalized plate ..... XXL
Well I gotta go and take the wife to the Walmart Supercenter in Broken Arrow to get her beehive hairdoo redone .... happy motoring ....
Invoice ?? I am still looking for a place that will order me a F250 for invoice or even better yet under invoice. I live in central NY but would be willing to travel outside of NY if the deal was right .... Can anyone help me ??
This is a great place thanks everyone for all the info....
I actually got about $500 more for my trade in than what the edmunds used truck guide said. My 97 F150 totaled 15,000 according to the edmunds page and Gator Ford gave me 15,500. I also bought my truck at $400 less than the invoice print out from edmunds. 31,000 MSRP sticker and I walked out at 26,400 plus tax. You just have to find the right dealer I guess. I have sold cars, boats, motorcycles and such in the paper. Those serious buyers are also not going to pay retail price from you either. I have gotten lucky and sold some things for more than I thought I would....but mostly not. I guess its just a crap shoot. I have had dealers in the past try and rip me off on the trade in deal, so I know what you are talking about Brutus. I am just lucky in dealing with Gator Ford I guess.
ibsmurf: If you're running empty, you'll be fine with matching TPs all the way around. I run 55 psi. If you put on a slide in camper ala brutus then I'd be comfortable running up to (if necessary) the max psi on the tire. Remember that's the key... what's the sidewall say. Example: if your tires can go to 70 psi for max load, you could run 70 psi all the time. It'd ride like hell, but you could do it. When you drop to 55 or so, you may sacrifice a little mpg, but the ride will be softer. I wouldn't go much below 50 or 55 psi for safety. The bottom line is stay within the limits of the tire ratings, and find a balance between load and ride. Happy trails.
brutus: Did you get your truck in Lawton, OK? That's where my new one is coming from.
Maybe Ford does listen to the suggestions here! Go to the following site, http://www.fordvehicles.com/showroom.asp and click on the "Build My Ford" link at the top of the page. You then select your vehicle and configure it. It will only allow a "correct" selection, and it also shows Dealer Invoice and MSRP. They even show the different advertising fees for different parts of the country, using your zip code. You can then submit a price that you'd like to pay, and any participating dealer can pick it up. It even links you directly to KBB to get a realistic value for your trade in.
If nothing else, the site can at least be used to configure your vehicle, and to get the correct invoice price. The dealer might argue with your "Edmunds" printout, but it'll be much harder to blow off an official "Ford" one.
All they need to do now is to set up a 'tracking' site, where you just have to enter your VIN or order number. After all, if FedEx and UPS can do it................
In response to your question - Should I get Ford's Extended Warranty?
I would recommend against it because of sheer cost..... The dealer offered me a 5 year, 60,000 mile extended warranty with $50 deductable for around $1350 ..... My credit union offered me a 7 year, 100,000 extended warranty with $50 deductable for $1275. I chose to not take any at this time because I found out I can purchase the credit union one at anytime before the 3 yr/36,000 original runs out for the same cost.
Some dealers will argue that you will get better service, less hastles, and original Ford parts for each problem that you may not get with an outside policy. I have done quite a bunch of research on this and have not found that to be true. But it makes for good sales bunk!
Beware ... there are probably some policies out there that force dealers to use used or second party parts, but I don't know of any. Most work the same way as the Ford one does .... you don't pay upfront and get reimbursed or anything like that.
If you do decide to go with a Ford extended warranty, remember that they are NEGOTIABLE in price!!!!!! Just because the finance guy gets you in the corner and gives you set figures doesn't mean it isn't negotiable ....
Shop around and read the fine print of the policy!
I'll take my $1275, put it into crazyelvis's 2 gillion % interrest stocks and in three years buy a new SD.
You have some valid points and some that I don't agree with (great thing about this forum, though, we can agree to disagree!). Webcams really are not all that expensive (check out http://web2.airmail.net/mprater/101/ for a good resource). Now Ford probably has all kinds of rules and regs. around mounting one in a factory, but compared with the overall SD revenue stream, it seems to me that the cost of webcams would be pretty small. As far as factory workers not wanted to be "monitored", it seems that it really depends on how Ford presents or "markets" the webcams to their employee base.
Backing up a step, my main point is that Ford could be doing a lot more to use the Internet to build brand loyalty, and retain customers. A proven way to do this is to wrap your message around content that your audience finds compelling and cannot find anywhere else. For example, I think it would be a pretty cool experience to participate in an online chat with a Ford engineer or project manager who actually played a role in designing the SuperDuty. By pulling my eyeballs to a site with this kind of content, Ford has the chance to get other messages across, or sell me stuff.
I believe that this kind of "on-line community" could easily co-exist with this site or others like ford-diesel.com.
Also, while the community of SD users might be small, Ford sells lot's of other kinds of vehicles, and this same concept could easily be extended to the F150, Mustang, etc.
sdman: I'll bet the Mustang community would eat it up. The UAW might then stand for U Are Watched. Har.Har. Can you imagine what would happen if crazyelvis had seen some assembly tech smile at the camera and drop a handful of screws in the door of new truck? Talk about "Shake, rattle, and roll!" Time to get a new name: crazierelvis :-)
lewac: The trains shut down for a while at New Years because of Y2K fears. A co-worker of mine who brokers coal to power plants told me about it. Maybe that slowed you down. Any progress?
That story about your old truck is what I am into now. My first dealer I went to had a nice sticker next to the MFG sticker indicating the XLT Lariat w/ diesel would sell for $33,400. Truck listed for 37K. Without checking the specific option codes, I figured this price was close to invoice and went in to see what they could do with my trade. They loved the truck-A F350 4x4 CrewCab Centurion "Bronco" which sleeps in the barn at night. They came back and slapped me across the face with a $5,000 offer for my truck. I nicely said you dont want to sell a truck today and walked out. I ordered my new rig last weekend at a dealer 15 minutes away and will be putting the old rig out in the market this week. Since I have a wait (and a 1/2) for the new one, the pressure is off to get rid of her but hope to sell her along the same lines as you mentioned. The dealer tries to get you off the top or the bottom: It doesnt matter which end just as long as they do!
Food for thought. They may be watching us. But given the number of trucks that Ford sells every year we are just but a small dot on the map. I've checked out all of the sites mentioned in this forum, and there are still not that many people using the net. I think we should consider ourselves lucky that we are net savvy, and bankroll the savings that we have gotten. Invoice or die!!!
I'm sure the UAW would allow public cameras (nonsecurity related) in one of their shops to scrutinize the work ethics of their members....but seriously folks, getting back to reality.....
If Ford is listening, I have a couple of requests to consider over the next few years:
First, since the RVs are getting bigger (both 5th wheel and truck camper), the F-450s are starting to be in higher demand by non-fleet buyers. This demand is only going to get higher since the RVs continue to get heavier. Ford needs to offer a F-450 that can be bought with the same configurations as the F-350. Right now, you can't buy a F-450 with a standard size bed (or any bed for that matter). You can't get one with Lariat amenities (interior and exterior). And I don't believe you can get one with a 4.10 or 4.30 axle ratio. I think the tallest axle ratio is a 4.56 or something similar. That will suck the mpg pretty good, especially running empty, and the engine will be running much higher rpms at hwy speeds.
Second, how about some factory RV options, especially for 5th wheel towing. Ford can definitely get better prices by buying in bulk than we can get buying individually, plus they can install it cheaper and more effectively since they can install it during the building process. Look at how much less it cost us to order a factory option than to go out and have it installed on our own after we buy the truck. Some options I'd like to see available are 5th wheel hitches, auxilliary fuel tanks, air-ride suspensions, and lower profile beds.
The competition for the RV market is getting more competitive. The lack of Chevy diesel has made Chevy a non-player. The lack of a crew cab has hurt Dodge. Chevy has appears to have resolved their diesel shortcoming, and I've already been hearing rumors that the crew cab Dodge is not too far away. The key to maintaining market share for Ford is to offer a better selection of vehicles that directly caters to this market.
With my slide-in truck camper, I exceed the GVWR of my 1 ton dually. When I buy my next truck, I'd definitely consider a F-450, but only if I could buy it configured like my F-350, plus I'd want the air-ride suspension so it rides similar to my F-350. I might consider going after-market for the air-ride suspension (although I'd rather not), but a F-450 will not even be a consideration if I have to go after-market to get a standard size bed, Lariat type interior and exterior amenities and a 4.10 or 4.30 axle ratio.
I bought my truck from Isbell Ford in Hennesey OK. They picked me up at the Enid airport ($89 one way ticket from DFW). They are out of business. It sounds like I got real lucky. Their allotment was pretty poor. It took several months to get my truck. I picked it up on 10/9/98. I heard they went out of business either in late December or early 1999. I think all deposits were returned, but everyone waiting in line had to find another dealer and start all over.
Thanks for your post with the link to Ford's "build your vehicle" web site. But, I didn't see where it shows invoice prices; all it showed me was an increasing MSRP as I added options/upgrades. How do I get it to display invoice prices?
PAYNER--CALL 1-800-BUY-FORD.THERE LOCATED IN LONG ISLAND CITY NEXT TO UNIVERSAL FORD ON NORTHERN BLVD IN LOWER N.Y. THEY DEAL IN INVOICE PRICES ONLY,I HOPE YOU DON'T HAVE A TRADE IN.GOOD LUCK.
After clicking on "Build Your Ford", click on "Name your own price for a Ford @Priceline.com" at the bottom of the next page. This takes you to http://auto.priceline.com/autos/entry/FordWelcome.asp which is the site that Ford and Priceline are collaborating on. Then, keep clicking the 'next' button in the middle, configuring it as you go.
I just tried it on a SuperDuty (@20:30 ET) and it's working fine, if a little slowly. Exactly like Ford's delivery on the SuperDuty in fact :-)
two gazillion % would be nice....but I only got one gazillion!!! The way this year is going....maybe half a gazillion will be good!!! Thinking of getting a flowmaster exhaust. I know a couple of you have it. The guy is going to cut the existing pipe about half way under the truck...put the flowmaster muffler on and then dual out the pipes into I think 2 chrome end pipes. They looked to be about a foot or so long and maybe 3-4" in diameter. He said it would give the truck a good sound. What do you all think???
...How much is the flowmaster system going to cost and what is the warranty?? I paid $499.00 for my BORLA plus $45.00 for my buddy at the exhaust shop to install. It has a Lifetime warranty and is made of T-304 stainless. The truck will probably rust before the exhaust does. On my installation, the pipe between the muffler and converter is a REAL BEAR to pull apart. Took him about 15-minutes heating it up to finally get the thing apart. Installing is a breeze and bolts up REAL nice. Best of all...it doesn't sound like a rice-burner going down the road like a few other V-10's he has customized with other brand mufflers....
$350 for everything. Now you have me worried!! They guy was just cutting the pipe about 3 feet in front of the stock muffler.....running the new 3 feet of pipe...then the muffler and then out the back with the chrome tips......sound OK.....?? Is the Borla a better product. I think the only thing chrome on this is the tips....the rest of the pipe is not....looked aluminum to me.....I didn't ask about the waranty yet.....
As far as dealer prices go, ie invoice, you just have to get out there and grill the dealers. Good place to start is here or at other sites that identify "internet" or fleet sales guys. Under no circumstances bother dealing with the retail idiots. Know what price you want to pay, then tell them. Found one dealer who offered 3% over plus adv/gas. He was actually the low guy! Most dealers in AZ actually put a second sticker on SD's that say Additional Dealer Mark-Up. So I ordered it. Then I told him that most of the deals I've seen on the internet are at 300-500 over, so he went 5 over. Plan on doing the priceline thing and going back one more time. It's nice to find an "invoice dealer" but know that you can work your deal if you want to. As far as trades go, you're almost always better off selling it yourself. Find out what the wholesale price for your rig is. Not blue book because it doesn't take any local market considerations into the price. That's what you can expect. In AZ, the trade value is deducted from the new purchase amount before sales tax is figured. That means you get an additional 5-7% of value in reduced sales tax on the trade offer from the dealer. If you think you can sell your truck for at least the sales tax rate over his offer, then do it yourself. If not, then grab his offer. If its close, you just have to decide whether a little less money is worth avoiding the hassles associated with selling it yourself.
One of the dealers up here in Anchorage had that extra tag on the trucks in their showroom when I bought my 92 F-250 up here. The window sticker was $21,450. They had a tag on the windshield that said $21,450 plus $2,050 dealer markup equals $23,500 sales price. The goal was to get people to negotiate away the dealer markup and think they got a good dealer. Basically, they were trying to get people to think that the MSRP was the dealer invoice. FYI, I paid $18,700 and I didn't know anything about dealer invoices, holdbacks, etc. I was lucky to have a friend who had previously sold cars in town.
northpole, it looks like you're more than 30 degrees cooler than us down here in the tropics and out official temp right now is -12. It's not quite that cold here at the office. Besides, it's a dry cold, right?
Nice weather here in Georgia today, too. Sunny and 75, 40 miles northeast of Atlanta. Can a SD pull a mower?
lewac: Did you ever find your truck? I saw a car train stopped on the siding at lunch, but I didn't see any trucks. Another item of interest I've been meaning to post: I pass a car hauler manufacturing plant (Cottrel) on my daily commute. They have a new design that has no top level side rails, just a platform. You could get three SD duallys up there at once. This is a family owned place and it's selling haulers like crazy. Only a matter of time until delivery picks up maybe. They've been building these things for months, but they suddenly became relevant to me. Hang in there.
Can someone recommend a muffler that would generate a better sound than the stock muffler on the SD? I just need it to sound "tough" but NOT loud to the point where I have to raise my voice to talk.
Also, someone told me that that if you make an exhaust system less restrictive, it may not be a good thing because it can lower the overall torque of the vehicle even though HP might go up a little bit. It was said that a vehicle needs a certain amount of "back pressure". Is this true?
Can someone recommend a muffler that would generate a better sound than the stock muffler on the SD? I just need it to sound "tough" but NOT loud to the point where I have to raise my voice to talk.
Also, someone told me that that if you make an exhaust system less restrictive, it may not be a good thing because it can lower the overall torque of the vehicle even though HP might go up a little bit. It was said that a vehicle needs a certain amount of "back pressure". Is this true?
The knobs in Fairbanks do the same thing...they add a 3X5 card to the MSRP sticker that's usually a 10% markup for unmeasurable things like "dealer prep". Heck, the local Chevy dealer calls it what it is: "additional dealer markup". Only an idiot would pay that price.
But I've been saying this for many years: that if you're a car (or snowmobile or RV) dealership and you only get 20 or 30 of something a year, if one customer doesn't pay the jacked-up price, the next one through the door will. With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder some dealerships won't haggle on price. Competition is a wonderful thing. In a town where there is only one each Ford, Chevy, and Dodge dealer, you're usually shafted before you hit the lot. I feel pretty strongly about it. So much so that I'm going 3500 miles to get my truck, and still coming out better than even.
Okay, off the soap box. High today is -45. Cars (and trucks) are breaking down all over.
Comments
Playmor1: thanks for the LineX report. I'll likely stick to the old version.
Thanks All !!
I've been reading all sorts of horror stories in the computer press about railroad IT mergers in the last year, wonder if that's affecting?
My truck sat at this end of the rail line for 4 weeks while the delivery truck waited to make it worth the trip to my dealer. Then finally, in one day, my dealer got a whole hauler's worth (4 trucks) - the last one arrived at this end of the rail line just the day before. He says that this is usual for him on duallies (they don't fit the typical car carrier) - the haulers don't want partial loads.
If the customer bugs him enough (I didn't because I was out of town) he'll drive up and pick it up individually.
All I can say is keep bugging your salesman. It'll be worth it.
No plow for a while.... No problem-just a little stiffer up front but nothing to complain about. You'll notice more control and less front end dip when the plow is on. Not a bad setup for a winch either.
I opted for the SPP with trailer tow when I ordered mine but I dont even plow. I did like the fact that at the dealer a f250 w/ the package sat equally as high as the f350 without.
What do you mean with the "equipment stays on there" Do you mean a minute mount set up?
The one thing that I see that still needs to be worked out is that most people still need to test drive a vehicle before they are certain they know which vehicle they want. Until Ford has a way to let people test drive their vehicles without going to a dealer, they can't risk alienating the dealers. The dealers will revolt if Ford sells on-line or directly from the factory since people will be using the dealer to test drive the vehicles and then ordering directly from Ford and shutting the dealer out of any profit.
One idea that I always thought was a good idea was for Ford to have regional test drive and Q&A service centers that were staffed by salaried or hourly employees. They could even have terminals set up for ordering vehicles. The number of these centers and distance between them would likely be based on population, which basically is the same thing that dictates the number of dealerships in the area. People will drive a few hours to have a no-hassle test drive.
As far as funding these service centers, Ford can easily do that by keeping the 3% holdback of all vehicles bought on-line. The holdback would normally be credited back to the dealerships.
The other issue that would still need to be resolved is that you still want Ford authorized service centers on the local level. When dealerships close their doors, the service departments go with them.
I don't see on-line auto buying happening overnight, but it will happen eventually. The logistics are going to take some working out.
I would like to order a 2000 F250 SD 4X4 Extended Cab
I considered using these guys to buy my SuperDuty, but (a) their prices are a little high and (b) once I realized how big a deal the allocation issue was I decided that they probably don't have a great SuperDuty allocation :-)
However, if you look at what they are trying to accomplish, and compare it to some of the posts in this forum, you can see that full on-line ordering is not that far off...
Many dealers see this trend as well, which is why they put so much effort into their service departments. Last week, I took my Toyota Tacoma in for service, and I was treated like royalty! Free rental car, a couple of callbacks during the day to update me on the progress of my car - a level of service that I had never seen before!
i really thought buying a new truck would be more fun than this but from reading the posts on this site it's worth it when you drive it off the lot.
i stopped at the dealer tonite he said he figured my f250 xlt sd sb 4x4 5.4 would be in this week, he showed me the invoice, they built it just the way i ordered it
Also FYI - my dealer told me that Texas seems to be getting a huge allocation of the Superduties these days.
On the form that I do have 'the Vehicle order confirmation' there is an order number of 4 digits. I have called KY using that number and get 'clean and unscheduled'. Is this 4 digit number the right one?
Also on this, it list the priority as 33. The slesman said that he sent it in as 10 but that Ford changed it to 33. He is suppose to check on that too. Now to see if I am just getting the run-around....
KILL THE TRAIN PEOPLE!!!....STINKS LEWAC!!!!
All...I'm trying to remember, but I think the towing pkg. on my '93 F150 included some sort of heavy duty coolant(transmission as well) system. I haven't seen any mention of this in the F250 options, but it is dawning on me that because this is a super duty truck that may be all included as is. Is this right? Won't I need extra cooling systems for towing? I could be asking my dealer all these questions, but you all are so much nicer!
cowpokes...I'd like to see a paint-clydesdale some day. I'm surprised you didn't lose the whole front quarter panel!
I won't be plowing with my new F250. I had something to prove a few years ago...single woman on her farm...yada, yada, yada... I am hiring someone to do it for me now. I got so sick of unhooking the trailer, hooking up the plow, unhooking the plow, hooking up the trailer. Yikes!
Here are some interesting gear ratio numbers I found on another site before I ordered. I didn't save the 5 speed manual because I was only interested in the PSD.
4 speed automatic:
1st - 2.71
2nd - 1.54
3rd - 1.0
4th - 0.71 (O/D I assume)
Rev - 2.18
heavy duty 6 speed manual
Low - 5.79
1st - 3.31
2nd - 2.10
3rd - 1.31
4th - 1.0
O/D - 0.72
Rev - 5.23
By measuring the diameter of your tires and factoring in your rear axle ratio, you can figure out what your RPMs will be at various speeds. Have fun!
1) What is the VOPC and how do you use to check the status?
2) I have read on other forums if you join some farm org (cost $30-50) Ford will give you a rebate of $500. Has anyone heard of this or done this?
Just wondering.
http://www.ford-diesel.com/faq/1999faq/General-OrderDuring.htm
1. Better customer experience. If I know where my truck is in the process, my expectations are better set as to when I will see my beast, I'll have a whole lot less stress coming out of the process and feel better about Ford.
2. Ford cold do a "whole lota marketing" around such site. Selling the Ford brand, information on how the trucks are built (love Brutus's idea of multiple "factory cams"), maintenance information, "just ask the experts" column, chat's with Ford SD engineers, chat's with KTP assembly people, selling aftermarket upgrades (your more likely to buy those mud flaps when your baby is new, right?), owners clubs, etc. Damn, Ford oughta hire me to do this for them (and I just happen to be in that business) :-)
3. Less phone calls to dealer asking for truck status. Dealer can concentrate more time on selling.
I suppose some dealers would not like the loss of control such a system would bring, but I for one think this would be something that would set Ford apart, and it's a site I would probably visit many times over.
What do you all think?
I ordered the camper package not for the capacity to carry a slide in, but for the "overload" capacity (i.e. helper spring leaves) and the extra rear sway bar. I don't have a larger camper (27-30') yet, but have heard horror stories from friends about sway on bumper pulls with F150's and I've experienced it myself with Jeeps and such. I have no interest in fifth wheels because of the cost. Was this overkill on a 250 SB,CC?
Gas mileage update on 250 CC Lariat V-10 auto 4X4 with 3.73 LS with 340 miles on it ......... REALLY CRUMBY ..... but who cares ...... I've decided that the USA needs to move faster in the direction of alternate renewable energy sources and I am going to try to do my part to use up the oil resources as fast as I can...... I haven't checked the size of pipe going from the gas tank to the engine but I bet it is at least 4 inchs in diameter ..... The V-10 will take as much gas as you want to give her ....
For you guys driving the PSD's, my brother just stopped through (Yukon, OK America) on his way moving from cold country .... Iowa ... to warm country ... southern Texas ... He drives a 2K 350 dually PSD with auto and pulls a 38 foot 5th wheel condomoblium. Think he said the weight of the camper is 12K# before loading with clothes and beer. Anyway ... he said he got 7.4 MPG driving 70 most of the way. One problem he said he noticed is that the auto transmission oscillated hard when shifting from OD to third going up hills .... he said he didn't have any trouble maintaining 70 MPH though with such a big rig.
Someone mentioned personalized tags for SD's a while back ... I chuckeled while driving through Kansas City a couple months ago when I saw a SD with the personalized plate ..... XXL
Well I gotta go and take the wife to the Walmart Supercenter in Broken Arrow to get her beehive hairdoo redone .... happy motoring ....
I am still looking for a place that will order me a F250 for invoice or even better yet under invoice. I live in central NY but would be willing to travel outside of NY if the deal was right .... Can anyone help me ??
This is a great place thanks everyone for all the info....
You just have to find the right dealer I guess. I have sold cars, boats, motorcycles and such in the paper. Those serious buyers are also not going to pay retail price from you either. I have gotten lucky and sold some things for more than I thought I would....but mostly not. I guess its just a crap shoot.
I have had dealers in the past try and rip me off on the trade in deal, so I know what you are talking about Brutus. I am just lucky in dealing with Gator Ford I guess.
brutus: Did you get your truck in Lawton, OK? That's where my new one is coming from.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/showroom.asp
and click on the "Build My Ford" link at the top of the page. You then select your vehicle and configure it. It will only allow a "correct" selection, and it also shows Dealer Invoice and MSRP. They even show the different advertising fees for different parts of the country, using your zip code. You can then submit a price that you'd like to pay, and any participating dealer can pick it up. It even links you directly to KBB to get a realistic value for your trade in.
If nothing else, the site can at least be used to configure your vehicle, and to get the correct invoice price. The dealer might argue with your "Edmunds" printout, but it'll be much harder to blow off an official "Ford" one.
All they need to do now is to set up a 'tracking' site, where you just have to enter your VIN or order number. After all, if FedEx and UPS can do it................
Check it out :-)
I would recommend against it because of sheer cost..... The dealer offered me a 5 year, 60,000 mile extended warranty with $50 deductable for around $1350 ..... My credit union offered me a 7 year, 100,000 extended warranty with $50 deductable for $1275. I chose to not take any at this time because I found out I can purchase the credit union one at anytime before the 3 yr/36,000 original runs out for the same cost.
Some dealers will argue that you will get better service, less hastles, and original Ford parts for each problem that you may not get with an outside policy. I have done quite a bunch of research on this and have not found that to be true. But it makes for good sales bunk!
Beware ... there are probably some policies out there that force dealers to use used or second party parts, but I don't know of any. Most work the same way as the Ford one does .... you don't pay upfront and get reimbursed or anything like that.
If you do decide to go with a Ford extended warranty, remember that they are NEGOTIABLE in price!!!!!! Just because the finance guy gets you in the corner and gives you set figures doesn't mean it isn't negotiable ....
Shop around and read the fine print of the policy!
I'll take my $1275, put it into crazyelvis's 2 gillion % interrest stocks and in three years buy a new SD.
Good luck and I hope this helps some ...
You have some valid points and some that I don't agree with (great thing about this forum, though, we can agree to disagree!). Webcams really are not all that expensive (check out http://web2.airmail.net/mprater/101/ for a good resource). Now Ford probably has all kinds of rules and regs. around mounting one in a factory, but compared with the overall SD revenue stream, it seems to me that the cost of webcams would be pretty small. As far as factory workers not wanted to be "monitored", it seems that it really depends on how Ford presents or "markets" the webcams to their employee base.
Backing up a step, my main point is that Ford could be doing a lot more to use the Internet to build brand loyalty, and retain customers. A proven way to do this is to wrap your message around content that your audience finds compelling and cannot find anywhere else. For example, I think it would be a pretty cool experience to participate in an online chat with a Ford engineer or project manager who actually played a role in designing the SuperDuty. By pulling my eyeballs to a site with this kind of content, Ford has the chance to get other messages across, or sell me stuff.
I believe that this kind of "on-line community" could easily co-exist with this site or others like ford-diesel.com.
Also, while the community of SD users might be small, Ford sells lot's of other kinds of vehicles, and this same concept could easily be extended to the F150, Mustang, etc.
Time to get a new name: crazierelvis :-)
lewac: The trains shut down for a while at New Years because of Y2K fears. A co-worker of mine who brokers coal to power plants told me about it. Maybe that slowed you down. Any progress?
That story about your old truck is what I am into
now. My first dealer I went to had a nice sticker
next to the MFG sticker indicating the XLT Lariat
w/ diesel would sell for $33,400. Truck listed for 37K. Without checking the specific option codes, I figured this price was close to invoice and went in to see what they could do with my trade. They loved the truck-A F350 4x4 CrewCab Centurion "Bronco" which sleeps in the barn at night. They came back and slapped me across the face with a $5,000 offer for my truck. I nicely said you dont want to sell a truck today and walked out. I ordered my new rig last weekend at a dealer 15 minutes away and will be putting the old rig out in the market this week. Since I have a wait (and a 1/2) for the new one, the pressure is off to get rid of her but hope to sell her along the same lines as you mentioned.
The dealer tries to get you off the top or the bottom: It doesnt matter which end just as long as they do!
If Ford is listening, I have a couple of requests to consider over the next few years:
First, since the RVs are getting bigger (both 5th wheel and truck camper), the F-450s are starting to be in higher demand by non-fleet buyers. This demand is only going to get higher since the RVs continue to get heavier. Ford needs to offer a F-450 that can be bought with the same configurations as the F-350. Right now, you can't buy a F-450 with a standard size bed (or any bed for that matter). You can't get one with Lariat amenities (interior and exterior). And I don't believe you can get one with a 4.10 or 4.30 axle ratio. I think the tallest axle ratio is a 4.56 or something similar. That will suck the mpg pretty good, especially running empty, and the engine will be running much higher rpms at hwy speeds.
Second, how about some factory RV options, especially for 5th wheel towing. Ford can definitely get better prices by buying in bulk than we can get buying individually, plus they can install it cheaper and more effectively since they can install it during the building process. Look at how much less it cost us to order a factory option than to go out and have it installed on our own after we buy the truck. Some options I'd like to see available are 5th wheel hitches, auxilliary fuel tanks, air-ride suspensions, and lower profile beds.
The competition for the RV market is getting more competitive. The lack of Chevy diesel has made Chevy a non-player. The lack of a crew cab has hurt Dodge. Chevy has appears to have resolved their diesel shortcoming, and I've already been hearing rumors that the crew cab Dodge is not too far away. The key to maintaining market share for Ford is to offer a better selection of vehicles that directly caters to this market.
With my slide-in truck camper, I exceed the GVWR of my 1 ton dually. When I buy my next truck, I'd definitely consider a F-450, but only if I could buy it configured like my F-350, plus I'd want the air-ride suspension so it rides similar to my F-350. I might consider going after-market for the air-ride suspension (although I'd rather not), but a F-450 will not even be a consideration if I have to go after-market to get a standard size bed, Lariat type interior and exterior amenities and a 4.10 or 4.30 axle ratio.
OK, I'll get off my soap box.....
I bought my truck from Isbell Ford in Hennesey OK. They picked me up at the Enid airport ($89 one way ticket from DFW). They are out of business. It sounds like I got real lucky. Their allotment was pretty poor. It took several months to get my truck. I picked it up on 10/9/98. I heard they went out of business either in late December or early 1999. I think all deposits were returned, but everyone waiting in line had to find another dealer and start all over.
Dave
http://auto.priceline.com/autos/entry/FordWelcome.asp
which is the site that Ford and Priceline are collaborating on. Then, keep clicking the 'next' button in the middle, configuring it as you go.
I just tried it on a SuperDuty (@20:30 ET) and it's working fine, if a little slowly. Exactly like Ford's delivery on the SuperDuty in fact :-)
Thinking of getting a flowmaster exhaust. I know a couple of you have it. The guy is going to cut the existing pipe about half way under the truck...put the flowmaster muffler on and then dual out the pipes into I think 2 chrome end pipes. They looked to be about a foot or so long and maybe 3-4" in diameter. He said it would give the truck a good sound. What do you all think???
gossamar, is your borla system a single or dual?
northpole, it looks like you're more than 30 degrees cooler than us down here in the tropics and out official temp right now is -12. It's not quite that cold here at the office. Besides, it's a dry cold, right?
lewac: Did you ever find your truck? I saw a car train stopped on the siding at lunch, but I didn't see any trucks. Another item of interest I've been meaning to post: I pass a car hauler manufacturing plant (Cottrel) on my daily commute. They have a new design that has no top level side rails, just a platform. You could get three SD duallys up there at once. This is a family owned place and it's selling haulers like crazy. Only a matter of time until delivery picks up maybe. They've been building these things for months, but they suddenly became relevant to me. Hang in there.
Also, someone told me that that if you make an exhaust system less restrictive, it may not be a good thing because it can lower the overall torque of the vehicle even though HP might go up a little bit. It was said that a vehicle needs a certain amount of "back pressure". Is this true?
Also, someone told me that that if you make an exhaust system less restrictive, it may not be a good thing because it can lower the overall torque of the vehicle even though HP might go up a little bit. It was said that a vehicle needs a certain amount of "back pressure". Is this true?
But I've been saying this for many years: that if you're a car (or snowmobile or RV) dealership and you only get 20 or 30 of something a year, if one customer doesn't pay the jacked-up price, the next one through the door will. With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder some dealerships won't haggle on price. Competition is a wonderful thing. In a town where there is only one each Ford, Chevy, and Dodge dealer, you're usually shafted before you hit the lot. I feel pretty strongly about it. So much so that I'm going 3500 miles to get my truck, and still coming out better than even.
Okay, off the soap box. High today is -45. Cars (and trucks) are breaking down all over.