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Got my notice yesterday to get the diagnostic program software upgraded. Dealer took me in right away and it took about an hour and a half. Sounds like Toyota purchased some oversights in their original software. It it will help us down the road, then it's a good thing.
Gas mileage - John1701a says, he uses the same gas station, same pump and same nozzle for accuracy. I use 2-3 different stations and usually a different pump. Sometimes I keep pumping it in, other times I'll add "one more bump" and move on. The truth is what you don't put in today, you'll add next time. It is best to average it out over a year.
Thanks,
Rich
1,792 miles / 32.929 gallons = 54.4 MPG
JOHN
It felt extremely well built, quiet, smooth, and was suprisingly quick and braked like a sports car. This was one of the first ones to be built and shipped (ordered ver early) and has had no problems--said she's been getting 48-49 MPG all the time.
Seriously considering one in a couple of years when I'll be in the car market myself, if that is, you'll even be able to get one two years after intro!
My Toyota sales rep (who trains all the other reps at the dealership and seems to know his stuff) said there has been no official word on changes for '05, but he doesn't expect any major changes. Think about it: the car was just redesigned last year and has a huge waiting list; why go to the expense of making changes?
They can easily add a few features to each market without re-tooling anything (just change the build mix), and still have the 'new' factor for the new model year. I've been saying for a long time that they planned that in advance, and we'll see
Possibilities for the US market that they could add without any re-design at all include:
Rear Disc Brakes
Daytime Running Lights
DSP on the stereo
VSC+ (available in Europe but not the US)
Rear Fog Lamps
Retracting Side Mirrors with integrated turn signals
Side Markers
Longer Spoiler
Option of 16" wheels with Euro suspension
Seat Height Adjustment
None of those would impact production or require any re-tooling. They are already installing all of those features already.
snip
ECB2 and E-TRC are interconnected with Vehicle Stability Control Plus (VSC+), that works with the electric power steering system to add steering torque assistance to the conventional stability control system, helping the driver get the most out of the car's performance potential by avoiding stability-threatening situations.
Backup Camera
Park Assist
EV Mode
Note - there are some posts here with a title that suggests they are about smog checks, but they are not (they are about future Prius designs). I have left those messages in this discussion.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I bought my Prius at Hanlee's in Richmond. I've heard from several dealers that Berkeley Toyota is one of the biggest sellers in the Bay Area. Give them a call if you haven't found success yet and perhaps they can do something for you. You won't be disappointed whatever you do. (Make me an offer I can't refuse and maybe I'll sell you mine.....
Good Luck!!
Rich
Andrew
04 Seaside Pearl
Plate # FOOTBAG
Edmonton
No wonder there is a waiting list. Toyota sold 45,375 Camry in the month of June alone.
You said the key phrase "... if it is profitable ..."
Right now, the Prius appears to be a loss leader to introduce the HSD technlogy, otherwise Toyota 's supposed ram-up would have been a larger, quicker ramp-up.
There is still a question as to whether the "Prius" is making a profit now or if it ever will. However, the used Prius eBay business appears profitable.
YMMV,
MidCow
If they are trying to recover start-up, research and developments costs then you are correct. These are sunk costs.
However, if each unit is a loss, in other word no net profit, then the more you sell the more you lose. It can never be profitable.
Total profit = unit Profit* number of units - sunk cost.
To simply even more take a hypothetical example that the actual cost to produce each Prius averages $30,000 and the average sales price is $25,000. Then you have a loss of $5,000 for each unit sold.
Now more realistically, let's say the sunk cost is 200 million $200,000,000 and the current unit profit is only $200.
Profix = $200* Q -$200,000,000.
So they becomne profitable at 1 million units. Not a lot of incentive to sell.
Not let's say Toyota is working on increasing the profit to $2,000 per car through improved quality control, more efficinet production of HSD parts and better volume battery suppliers.
then the formula becomes
Profit = $2000 * Q -$200,000,000
Or it becomes profitable after 100,000 cars are sold.
================
Bottom line, If the Prius is not profitable or only marginally profitable, it doesn't make sense to increase production unit ( IFF the unit production profit can be increased).
YMMV,
MidCow
Now I'm using MICHELIN HYDROEDGE tires on my 2004 Prius. So hopefully, I'll have lots of data available to share once others are ready for replacement.
It rained today, so I got to try them out on water. They worked really well. Snow is a loooooong way away still, so don't ask.
MPG will definitely take some kind of hit, since I'm running at 35 PSI now (instead of 44 PSI). But I have no idea whatsoever how much. With the temperature 20 degrees below normal, MPG is down anyway. Plus, there's break-in for the tires themselves. With my 460 treadwear tires, it took around 1,000 miles. So with these having a 760 treadwear rating, does that mean more or less?
I got the tires for $113.35 each, including labor, a valve-stem, road-hazard coverage, and disposal of the old tire. They have an 85,000 mile warranty. Tread-depth: 11/32, Traction: A, Temperature: B, Treadwear: 760, Max-PSI: 35.
More on the new tires later.
JOHN
Odds are, those comments were made by people with squishy tires, which provides a soft & quiet ride. Underinflation is a dangerous problem that is far too common. Even at 30 PSI, most tires nowadays appear to hold the weight well. But in reality, the tires have too much give at that point... an invitation for an accident.
By the way, that price I mentioned included tax too.
JOHN
I had heard that the Prius I was hard on tires because of the load rating. It also appears that the Prius II is equally hard on tires.
In reference to #3503 and #3506, John you yourself have said that the Prius II is not profitable yet. Did you mean unit profit or bottom line recovery of the HSD development costs?
YMMV,
MidCow
Brigestone Potenza RE040 215/45-17
Read the title.
These new tires clearly hold the road better, in both wet & dry conditions. And they last twice as long... which that alone covers the cost.
> It also appears that the Prius II is equally hard on tires.
How in the world can you jump to that conclusion? It is totally, completely false... nothing but an attempt to create a misconception.
The classic Prius had tires with a treadwear rating of 160. The 2004 tires have a treadwear rating of 460 and the surface area is greater. That's a huge improvement.
Of course, some classic owners (like me) just upgraded to better tires anyway. And that ended the rapid wear problem immediately.
JOHN
to quote:
"By the way, that's another "amazing coincidence" for Toyota. They just happened to choose the same type of Goodyear rubber for the 2004 that I bought and promoted as an alternate for the classic...
JOHN"
john1701a Jan 6, 2004 9:36pm!keywords=allin:msgtext limit:.ef169e3 goodyear
Does that mean your recommendation has changed now to the Michelin Hydroedge long wear 760 A B ?
YMMV,
MidCow
WRONG!
I changed to Goodyear ALLEGRA tires.
That are not the same.
It turns out that they are more different from the Integrity tires than the specifications initially indicate. And I photos to help support that too, besides the 16,000 miles of driving comparison.
Remember, just because the rubber is a similar compound, that does not mean it will react the same way when a different tread-pattern is used.
JOHN
If you changed to Goodyear tires on your classic Prius, Prius I
And if Toyota used the same type of rubber that you had bought.
One would assume that when you said same type you were referring to the GoodYear Integrity rather than the Goodyear Allegra.
Anyway, being somewhat conservative minded myself, I would have bought one tire and upgraded when all the tires were worn. Wouldn't that also be the green Prius approach. Do you realize how much pollution making just one tire, let along four creates??
telle est la vie,
MidCow
Like most here, I value John's insights and contributions, and wonder why each of his posts seems to require a response from you, usually a negative one? Am I the only one who feels this way?
The treadwear ratings are only accurately comparable between tires of the same brand per UTQG. So a 760-Michelin versus a 460-Goodyear is not numerically double, nor is comparable between the two different brands. Many complain about the characteristics for the Integritys, but most get over 60,000 miles wear. I doubt the Michelins will get on average 120,000 miles.
Given also that the Goodyears are $51 versus $97 on Tirerack, I don't think economics vs. wear would make much sense. The handling, wet weather capabilities, and mileage may be a far different story.
I salute you and all your efforts to the Prius community. I believe you make every effort to make sure you convey accurate information. Keep up the great work!!
dual airbags only option mentioned....
$29,777 people I show this to think it's a misprint... I DOUBT IT !!!! LOL
Ordered mine in Nov' 03 still waiting :-(
#5 on the list so I figure in the fall...Dealers in this area ,Hudson Valley, already stopped taking new orders .
Dennis
I have benefitted from john1701a's knowledge and experience too many times to subject him to a microscope. There's a difference between "been there/done that" and "it should be like this".
Thanks,
Rich
And guess what, I was wrong! (How about that?) Some of the Hydroedge sizes, including mine, provide support for a maximum PSI of 44. So it looks like I might not be taking any MPG penalty at all. We'll see.
JOHN
___Let me know about your real world mileage experiences with the Hydroedge’s on your Prius II also. The Integrity’s on the Corolla are at 63,000 and probably only have another 5,000 or so to go. With that, I am actively looking for another reasonable priced LRR tire(s) as replacements.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I'll share discoveries as I make them.
JOHN
And switching to a wider tire would be the opposite of what I'd recommend. Having so much experience with snow driving, I know well that thinner tires dig better. In other words, you want as much weight as possible on the contact patch.
Whatever the case, the new tires (same size) handle better. I can take corners even harder now.
JOHN