OK, I'll make you feel better...Dealers are all out to rob you and kill you and eat your cat! Always offer 10K below invoice and refuse to negotiate! Salesmen are all former pirates and felons and should be treated as such! I own a 23 year old pick-up with 250K miles on it and it is the best truck in the world!
Now, do you feel better?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For those of us who've been here awhile, recognized him/her by their writing and tactics. He/she pops up every once in awhile, using several different monikers, gets "handled". Then goes away.
I'm on vacation for a few weeks. So, decided to have cocktails with a "dealer friend" last night. She's running Toyota, Honda and Lexus stores for her owner/father. She said that there was a move to consolidate dealerships...particularly among the American brands. No secret there.
What was interesting, she feels the same is going to happen with the "foreign" brands. I asked her what that would mean as far as pricing. She said that her stores are moving towards no-negotiation. Prices would be fixed....below MSRP, but aboe invoice.
I asked her if she would lose significant business by "fixing the price...no negotiations".
Interesting reply. She said...."not if we own all the competing stores".
For those of us who've been here awhile, recognized him/her by their writing and tactics. He/she pops up every once in awhile, using several different monikers, gets "handled". Then goes away.
It is amazing the quantity and frequency of those posts. It is like being hit with a tropical storm. Fast, furious, and fortunately, over soon.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
ccc....I don't pretend to know the franchise laws. But, I thought the same thing....can't own more than one branded store in any geographic area. Still, I see "groups" of stores owned by one person, or company, happening more and more.
The stand alone "mom and pop" stores are getting scarcer and scarcer.
I'm pretty sure that they can own multiple franchises in an area. One company owns 4 (at least) Nissan dealerships in the Phoenix area, another owns several Toyota dealerships, Autonation owns multiple Nissan, Toyota, Chevrolet dealerships.
No, I meant that literally - nobody can own it all. Actually, here in Columbus both Lexus stores are owned by Germain. While it's sad to see all the consolidation going on (I believe that Ricart here now has every brand except Honda and Toyota), there'll always be at least some competition.
Sure they can. Here we have one family owning all except two Toyota dealerships in the STATE. They also own the distributorship rights so that the other two Toyota dealers buy their cars through them. They also own the Scion and Lexus dealerships all of them. It's a long story but bottom line they own the Toyota market in our state.
**.. I asked her what that would mean as far as pricing. She said that her stores are moving towards no-negotiation .. Interesting reply. She said.... not if we own all the competing stores".**
Perhaps that is her next move .. and believe me, that's only speculation on her part ..l.o.l.. it hasn't really worked in the market for 23 years.
Most new dealers "in progress" will have their own thoughts and idea's, especially when they have a PHD - (Papa Has a Dealership) ...
It takes a quite a few years to actually understand the "in's and outs" of a dealership, ya can't learn that in business school ..
You need to know the personnel that work in it, the geographics, the marketing niche and how to keep it running like a fine Swiss watch.
In the short run, she'll get bombarded by sales agents, company's that promise the moon if they spend $50,000 now and change this and that "oh my goodness, an easy fix.." (I always found this humorous, they don't own a store, but they wanna tell you how to run one.?) .. usually Dad needs to step back into the picture after they've been in the red for the last 9 months or so ... they usually forget their good employee's and the "KISS method".
As far as owning major multiple stores.? .. it get's to a point of diminishing returns - most dealers that have gone "Mega" (10/20/30+ stores) haven't accomplished anymore market penetration and their net profitability has fallen under 2% ... that's a bunch of money spent to get back such a small return - and that certainly doesn't include all of the incurred brain damage .l.o.l..
ccc...in Cincinnati, my friend's Father owns a Toyota and Honda store....probably two of the biggest stores in the state carrying those brands. There are two other Honda stores, and 3 other Toyota stores in and around the city. All owned by separate entities other than Dever. According to her, they're looking to make a move to buy my Honda and Toyota dealerships to put under their "Performance" store name. Whether it will be in the same geographic region they're in now, is the question.
That would be tough to do, though. The other 2 Toyota stores are owned by strong dealer groups. There's one Honda store that's still a small entity, but they've been around for a very long time. Still, money talks....you know the rest.
Terry, the owner of those stores made his money back in the '80s, when Toyotas and Hondas were the hot tickets. He eventually semi-retired and turned them over to his daughter. So, she's been in the biz for 20 years, since she graduated high school (of course with "daddy's" greenbacks behind her). I'll give her credit, even though she was the owner's daughter, she started at the bottom....doing new car clean-up. Worked as a service writer, then sales person, to management. Now, she oversees all the stores in OH and KY (including a couple of Lexus stores).
**.. she started at the bottom....doing new car clean-up. Worked as a service writer, then sales person, to management ..**
As long as it wasn't done over her 3 week summer vacation between the Nieman Marcus runs and those $200 pedicures -- (that's usually the "real story") :P
But if she's earned it, then it will make ALL the difference in the world as far as the business and how she handles it.
It seems to work for the Lexus stores.. They own both of them here in town, and they do pretty well at holding the line on prices..
On another topic, we hear lots of complaints about bad salespeople, but I find that the ones that I like seem to rise to the top. The salesman from when I bought my '99 Accord is now the general manager of the dealership (also Performance), and the salesperson from my '82 Accord was the sales manager at the Lexus dealership, last time I was in there (a few years ago).
ky....like you, I gravitate towards those personable sales people. High pressure stores don't do it for me, although I've bought from some of them in the past. They had something I wanted and couldn't find anywhere else. I had to revert to the "grind...grind...grind" routine to get the price I wanted on the vehicle.
True...the good ones, the personable ones, rise to the top.
The Toyota store and Lexus stores you refer to seem to hire and retain their sales people (and managers) better than most. They train them well on product. They're personable....and are pretty easy to deal with, most of the time.
Still, some fall through the cracks. Awhile back, I referenced helping a friend of mine buy a new Sonota. She was looking at everything in the range...including Accords. Took her to the Performance Honda store. The sales person really was insulting and condescending to her....and focused only on me (even though she was the one with the checkbook). Come to find out, he came from the local Nissan dealer down the street.
The SM was as bad, or worse....high pressure. Found out he came from a high pressure Ford store. I'd bet neither one of them is still at the Honda store.
They both talked themselves out of an Accord sale, for no other reason than their attitudes.
While I'm not a Saab fan, the owner of their local stores seems to do well. While their products might not be at the top of anyone's list, the reason they do well is they place a premium on customer service.
What's RDR'd? Rotten,Dirty,Reeking---Reliable,Drivable,Returnable---Run Directly off Roof?
I’m with ya here. Just when I thought I had learned enough lingo from the guys in the biz here, I get RDR’d Rammed Directly in the Rear. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm back and to refresh your minds I had an 01 Sentra and a 92 Geo Storm looking for two cars. Heres what we ended up with....your thoughts??
We got an 07 Honda CR-V LX 2WD for 20,200 and an 07 Honda Civic LX 4DR AT for 17,245, both vehicles plus TTL. The dealer gave us $3800 for the Sentra, we put down an additional $14,000 and we will donate the Storm as I don't want to hassle with private selling.
A GOOD owner is the one who lets his Management Staff run the store.
Up to a point. I don't think a "good owner" can be a good owner while spending weeks at a time in Aruba.
As my dad likes to say, "the eye of the master fattens the ox."
Constantly meddling is one thing, but being involved is good. And I don't care if you're running a car dealership, a pizza joint, or a particle accelerator.
**.. Constantly meddling is one thing, but being involved is good. And I don't care if you're running a car dealership, a pizza joint, or a particle accelerator ..**
I agree 110% with Mathias ...
Like my great Grand Daddy used to say:
"you can let the big dogs run, but keep them on a short leash"
I'm back and to refresh your minds I had an 01 Sentra and a 92 Geo Storm looking for two cars.
Yeah, I remember you. I started talking to you back in post 3050. Just curious, did the dealer charge you for parking on his lot when you showed up with that GEO?
Did we get a good deal??
If you followed the advice you received here I’m sure you did. If nothing else you’re getting rid of the GEO. That makes you a winner right there, huh?
Enjoy your new rides,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"We got an 07 Honda CR-V LX 2WD for 20,200 and an 07 Honda Civic LX 4DR AT for 17,245, both vehicles plus TTL. The dealer gave us $3800 for the Sentra, we put down an additional $14,000 and we will donate the Storm as I don't want to hassle with private selling.
Did we get a good deal??"
Well, you bought 2 vehicles that will probably last you for years and years, and upwards of 200,000 miles of service (if properly maintained)- and did so for @ $38,000. I would say that this day and age, that ain't too shabby. Enjoy your new rides.
That's so nice of you to donate your personal time to do this for free for someone.....because of course if you were charging in someway for this it wouldn't be allowed in the forum. That would be nothing more than a middleman, and add additional fees to what the consumer can pick the car up for directly.
I'm a consumer advocate and I have a lot of experience in dealing with car salespeople.
I had one of these guys call me one time several years ago wanting to know if I wanted to be his Ford Contact in town. He said "Man you really need to hook up with me, we can tear there heads off, they never question me"
He billed himself as a "Consumer Advocate" also. he was nothing more then one more guy who could not make it in the biz so he thought he would try to make a living telling people how bad we are.
BTW, I passed on signing up, these guys are a PITA and just one more person trying to get a piece of the already small pie.
But since Steve here does it for free I guess I can't lump him into that category.
There are a lot of skeptics, but why are the salesmen so afraid? I don't try to rip anyone off. It's obvious that dealerships need a profit, but I try to level the playing field. I never claim that all salesmen are bad or that they're all out to try to rip people off. I just ensure that things are fair. It's really interesting to see the reactions that I get. The person that spoke to you has a very different perspective than I have. Anyway, thanks for your input.
I think a guy like steve would be benefical to someone who just hates to walk into a dealership. Of course I would want references. I would do my own research as well, and check all paperwork before signing.
i'm sorry but references are not particularly valuable as they may not be objective. the whole purchasing experience is subjective to some extent.
you could have a special relationship with a number of salespeople or dealership owners. personally, i would avoid your services, but i suppose others could potentially benefit by them.
Has anyone ever purchased from Fitzmall in Maryland. They advertise their prices at what look to be "below invoice" excluding tax and tags and a 99.00 dealer fee. They also have you go to KBB for your trade-in value. Do they honor that trade-in price or come near to it??? Or is there some kind of fallacy involved. Or do they just do enough volume to get better mfg. to dealer incentives??? :confuse:
Just looked at this site and found these forums. We were surprised by the recent JD Powers rankings. Buick on top? Honda and Toyota down a tad in the rankings. Land Rover the least reliable! I don't know about you but if I'm taking off into the bush I wouldn't want to do it in the least reliable vehicle at such a high cost. I read here where someone was claiming 23% depreciation in two years was great and in the same paragraph stated the depreciation was $15,000. I don't know about you guys but $15,000 down the tubes is a lot of cash in real money terms.
Anyway we are buying another car. Currently have a 2000 Avalon which has served us well for 145,000 miles. probably going to have a look at the Buicks this time around. Give GM a chance again. My son bought an HHR. It has been a great car/truck/ whatever it is? The price used was a bargain. $14,260 for a car that cost $24,000 new two years ago with every option. I felt sorry for the first owner. I buy new because I keep cars.
Actually we are thinking of taking a trip to Fitzmall. I have heard they are fair dealers and do use KBB.
Interesting post. You've had an Avalon which (presumably) has provided good service yet you're swayed by one snap-shot in time (Powers) to contemplate a Buick knowing (HHR example) that GM resale is absymal.
Perhaps the General will have an easier time coming back than I thought.
Well, GM resale isn't so abysmal if you work depreciation off the street price rather than the sticker. GM stickers are usually fantasy numbers.
And the big news is Buicks improvement, not the slight slipping with Toyota. Toyota has played the reliability game to the hilt, now they're adding the "product cheapening game" to it more than before. I'd wager the powertrains will continue to be as reliable as anvils, but trim, electronics, and so forth will have their glitches here and there.
I don't particularly care for Buick, but if I needed a decent ride for a longish commute, I'd look at a used Regal. Comfortable, reliable, decent mileage... and a good value on the used side. Not bad at all.
Thats quite a huge snapshot when you think about it. The first two cars on the list are GM. I place a lot of value in JD Powers. These are real surveys by real owners. Seems Toyota owners are less happy then they were. I cannot see paying up to a new Toyota at this moment. I believe the US automakers are coming around and yes at this moment in time may be the best VALUE as they are still carrying the reliability issue.
The Avalon was great but I paid far MORE for it then a Buick would have cost in 2000. Same as would be today.
Why not just get a new Toyota if its been very reliable, Yes Buick has come a long way and has been very reliable however the resale value may not be as great after the long term, If i were to buy a Buick i would not buy a brand new one.
contemplate a Buick knowing (HHR example) that GM resale is absymal
Two things, first off if you go by selling price resale value isn't that bad. Secondly he says he keeps cars, if thats the case then resale is meaningless.
Plus what good is resale value if its not a car you want?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
snake, i agree with some of the points being made.
i know he's got 145K on it which dings the resale pretty good, but still, being a toyota avalon, he's still likely to get 5K to 6K for the vehicle if it is in good / clean condition.
and if it were a similarly sized GM sedan?
in my opinion RESALE / demand is ALWAYS good. I'd never buy a car I thought I'd have difficulty selling.
there's absolutely no logic in cars artificially marked up, to be sold under MSRP or invoice or what have you at huge discounts.
when the depreciation is !@#$%^&* to begin with, you're starting off on the wrong foot IMHO. is it likely you're a payment purchaser going for one of these, duped by the "savings", putting little to no equity down, likely to be upside down when you leave the lot?
The problem with resale is moot. First of all Im giving it away as I usually do with my older cars and I believe one may get "$1000" more at the end of the day but you are paying for that up front in the inflated cost of the less depreciating car.
Why not buy a Toyota? Precisely because the word is out and I have been reading more and more Toyota has dropped in quality yet still getting that "resale" premium. Just like reputation helped Toyota, it can hurt as well. That has been reflected in numerous articles and surveys of new owners. The Matrix is a good example with the camber issues and premature tire wear. In the old days Toyota would own up to those kinds of issues. Now owners are talking class action.
The Avalon is indeed a great car. I bought it used for what a new Lucerne will cost. The new warranty is nice as well. I think it might be time to try out the Americans before their reliability credentials become common place and prices rise.
When Buick and Cadillac is rated higher by new owners than Lexus its time to take a look.
i know he's got 145K on it which dings the resale pretty good, but still, being a toyota avalon, he's still likely to get 5K to 6K for the vehicle if it is in good / clean condition.
and if it were a similarly sized GM sedan?
Well according to KBB.com a top of the line Avalon will bring in about $1500 more than a top of the line Impala with the same options condition and miles. I will bet you that the Impala was much less than the Avalon.
I get that argument all the time from Toyota and Honda owners about my Hyundai. Sure the Hyundai has a much lower resale value but at this point in time if I get $5 for my Hyundai I am ahead of the game than if I bought a Honda or Toyota simply because I would have paid about 3 grand more for a comparable Honda or Toyota.
In short yes they do have a higher resale value but they cost more to begin with and in most cases it doesn't pay off.
in my opinion RESALE / demand is ALWAYS good. I'd never buy a car I thought I'd have difficulty selling.
Well in my opinion resale value should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to what should influence a buying decision. First off resale value is of no comfort if 1.) you don't like the car or 2.) it doesn't fit your needs or 3.) both of the above.
Secondly in almost every case you pay more up front for that higher resale value and that upfront payment is rarely fully realized on the resale.
And finally the longer you keep a car the less resale value is an issue. As for me I plan on keeping cars until the wheels fall off and in that case any car will be only worth parts. So resale is totally meaningless for me.
when the depreciation is !#$%^&* to begin with, you're starting off on the wrong foot IMHO.
I would disagree because as stated before the cars with higher resale value are always higher in price to begin with. It makes little sense to buy car 'A' with a sales price of $25,000 that will have a $7,500 resale value 6 or 7 years down the road over car 'B' that sells for $22,000 that will have a $5,000 resale value under the same circumstances. That is unless you like car 'A' better for reasons other than resale value.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
OK, I'll make you feel better...Dealers are all out to rob you and kill you and eat your cat! Always offer 10K below invoice and refuse to negotiate! Salesmen are all former pirates and felons and should be treated as such! I own a 23 year old pick-up with 250K miles on it and it is the best truck in the world!
Now, do you feel better?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
So thats what happened to Fluffy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm on vacation for a few weeks. So, decided to have cocktails with a "dealer friend" last night. She's running Toyota, Honda and Lexus stores for her owner/father. She said that there was a move to consolidate dealerships...particularly among the American brands. No secret there.
What was interesting, she feels the same is going to happen with the "foreign" brands. I asked her what that would mean as far as pricing. She said that her stores are moving towards no-negotiation. Prices would be fixed....below MSRP, but aboe invoice.
I asked her if she would lose significant business by "fixing the price...no negotiations".
Interesting reply. She said...."not if we own all the competing stores".
Lol, great way to start my day. Thanks, farmer.
-Moo
It is amazing the quantity and frequency of those posts. It is like being hit with a tropical storm. Fast, furious, and fortunately, over soon.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
/apologizes
-Mo.O
Its not really used although in some states if you put enough miles on them they require you to title them and then they are used.
The car is still on its MSO/CO so it is a NEW car not USED.
It sounds like she's an old school communist.
The stand alone "mom and pop" stores are getting scarcer and scarcer.
Dealers are all out to rob you and kill you and eat your cat!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Perhaps that is her next move .. and believe me, that's only speculation on her part ..l.o.l.. it hasn't really worked in the market for 23 years.
Most new dealers "in progress" will have their own thoughts and idea's, especially when they have a PHD - (Papa Has a Dealership) ...
It takes a quite a few years to actually understand the "in's and outs" of a dealership, ya can't learn that in business school ..
You need to know the personnel that work in it, the geographics, the marketing niche and how to keep it running like a fine Swiss watch.
In the short run, she'll get bombarded by sales agents, company's that promise the moon if they spend $50,000 now and change this and that "oh my goodness, an easy fix.." (I always found this humorous, they don't own a store, but they wanna tell you how to run one.?) .. usually Dad needs to step back into the picture after they've been in the red for the last 9 months or so ... they usually forget their good employee's and the "KISS method".
As far as owning major multiple stores.? .. it get's to a point of diminishing returns - most dealers that have gone "Mega" (10/20/30+ stores) haven't accomplished anymore market penetration and their net profitability has fallen under 2% ... that's a bunch of money spent to get back such a small return - and that certainly doesn't include all of the incurred brain damage .l.o.l..
Terry
That would be tough to do, though. The other 2 Toyota stores are owned by strong dealer groups. There's one Honda store that's still a small entity, but they've been around for a very long time. Still, money talks....you know the rest.
Terry, the owner of those stores made his money back in the '80s, when Toyotas and Hondas were the hot tickets. He eventually semi-retired and turned them over to his daughter. So, she's been in the biz for 20 years, since she graduated high school (of course with "daddy's" greenbacks behind her). I'll give her credit, even though she was the owner's daughter, she started at the bottom....doing new car clean-up. Worked as a service writer, then sales person, to management. Now, she oversees all the stores in OH and KY (including a couple of Lexus stores).
She knows the "biz".
As long as it wasn't done over her 3 week summer vacation between the Nieman Marcus runs and those $200 pedicures -- (that's usually the "real story") :P
But if she's earned it, then it will make ALL the difference in the world as far as the business and how she handles it.
Terry. ;^)
On another topic, we hear lots of complaints about bad salespeople, but I find that the ones that I like seem to rise to the top. The salesman from when I bought my '99 Accord is now the general manager of the dealership (also Performance), and the salesperson from my '82 Accord was the sales manager at the Lexus dealership, last time I was in there (a few years ago).
Nice things happen to nice people... generally.
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True...the good ones, the personable ones, rise to the top.
The Toyota store and Lexus stores you refer to seem to hire and retain their sales people (and managers) better than most. They train them well on product. They're personable....and are pretty easy to deal with, most of the time.
Still, some fall through the cracks. Awhile back, I referenced helping a friend of mine buy a new Sonota. She was looking at everything in the range...including Accords. Took her to the Performance Honda store. The sales person really was insulting and condescending to her....and focused only on me (even though she was the one with the checkbook). Come to find out, he came from the local Nissan dealer down the street.
The SM was as bad, or worse....high pressure. Found out he came from a high pressure Ford store. I'd bet neither one of them is still at the Honda store.
They both talked themselves out of an Accord sale, for no other reason than their attitudes.
While I'm not a Saab fan, the owner of their local stores seems to do well. While their products might not be at the top of anyone's list, the reason they do well is they place a premium on customer service.
I’m with ya here. Just when I thought I had learned enough lingo from the guys in the biz here, I get RDR’d Rammed Directly in the Rear. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm still shakin' my head over that one .... I guess the word "stunned" is more like it.
Terry. :shades:
We got an 07 Honda CR-V LX 2WD for 20,200 and an 07 Honda Civic LX 4DR AT for 17,245, both vehicles plus TTL. The dealer gave us $3800 for the Sentra, we put down an additional $14,000 and we will donate the Storm as I don't want to hassle with private selling.
Did we get a good deal?? :shades:
Up to a point. I don't think a "good owner" can be a good owner while spending weeks at a time in Aruba.
As my dad likes to say, "the eye of the master fattens the ox."
Constantly meddling is one thing, but being involved is good. And I don't care if you're running a car dealership, a pizza joint, or a particle accelerator.
-Mathias
I agree 110% with Mathias ...
Like my great Grand Daddy used to say:
"you can let the big dogs run, but keep them on a short leash"
Terry.
Yeah, I remember you. I started talking to you back in post 3050. Just curious, did the dealer charge you for parking on his lot when you showed up with that GEO?
Did we get a good deal??
If you followed the advice you received here I’m sure you did. If nothing else you’re getting rid of the GEO. That makes you a winner right there, huh?
Enjoy your new rides,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm still shakin' my head over that one .... I guess the word "stunned" is more like it.
I said this before you came back; "he ain't really in the biz" but he has some good tales.
Welcome back...stick around awhile.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Enjoy your new vehicles!
Did we get a good deal??"
Well, you bought 2 vehicles that will probably last you for years and years, and upwards of 200,000 miles of service (if properly maintained)- and did so for @ $38,000. I would say that this day and age, that ain't too shabby. Enjoy your new rides.
Welcome back... stick around awhile ..**
like Tiger, I'm just between golf tournaments .. thank you Jmonroe.
Terry :shades:
That's so nice of you to donate your personal time to do this for free for someone.....because of course if you were charging in someway for this it wouldn't be allowed in the forum. That would be nothing more than a middleman, and add additional fees to what the consumer can pick the car up for directly.
I had one of these guys call me one time several years ago wanting to know if I wanted to be his Ford Contact in town. He said "Man you really need to hook up with me, we can tear there heads off, they never question me"
He billed himself as a "Consumer Advocate" also. he was nothing more then one more guy who could not make it in the biz so he thought he would try to make a living telling people how bad we are.
BTW, I passed on signing up, these guys are a PITA and just one more person trying to get a piece of the already small pie.
But since Steve here does it for free I guess I can't lump him into that category.
you could have a special relationship with a number of salespeople or dealership owners. personally, i would avoid your services, but i suppose others could potentially benefit by them.
Honda and Toyota down a tad in the rankings. Land Rover the least reliable! I don't know about you but if I'm taking off into the bush I wouldn't want to do it in the least reliable vehicle at such a high cost. I read here where someone was claiming 23% depreciation in two years was great and in the same paragraph stated the depreciation was $15,000. I don't know about you guys but $15,000 down the tubes is a lot of cash in real money terms.
Anyway we are buying another car. Currently have a 2000 Avalon which has served us well for 145,000 miles. probably going to have a look at the Buicks this time around. Give GM a chance again. My son bought an HHR. It has been a great car/truck/ whatever it is? The price used was a bargain. $14,260 for a car that cost $24,000 new two years ago with every option. I felt sorry for the first owner. I buy new because I keep cars.
Actually we are thinking of taking a trip to Fitzmall. I have heard they are fair dealers and do use KBB.
Perhaps the General will have an easier time coming back than I thought.
And the big news is Buicks improvement, not the slight slipping with Toyota. Toyota has played the reliability game to the hilt, now they're adding the "product cheapening game" to it more than before. I'd wager the powertrains will continue to be as reliable as anvils, but trim, electronics, and so forth will have their glitches here and there.
I don't particularly care for Buick, but if I needed a decent ride for a longish commute, I'd look at a used Regal. Comfortable, reliable, decent mileage... and a good value on the used side. Not bad at all.
-Mathias
The Avalon was great but I paid far MORE for it then a Buick would have cost in 2000. Same as would be today.
Two things, first off if you go by selling price resale value isn't that bad. Secondly he says he keeps cars, if thats the case then resale is meaningless.
Plus what good is resale value if its not a car you want?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i agree with some of the points being made.
i know he's got 145K on it which dings the resale pretty good, but still, being a toyota avalon, he's still likely to get 5K to 6K for the vehicle if it is in good / clean condition.
and if it were a similarly sized GM sedan?
in my opinion RESALE / demand is ALWAYS good. I'd never buy a car I thought I'd have difficulty selling.
there's absolutely no logic in cars artificially marked up, to be sold under MSRP or invoice or what have you at huge discounts.
when the depreciation is !@#$%^&* to begin with, you're starting off on the wrong foot IMHO. is it likely you're a payment purchaser going for one of these, duped by the "savings", putting little to no equity down, likely to be upside down when you leave the lot?
i wonder.
Why not buy a Toyota? Precisely because the word is out and I have been reading more and more Toyota has dropped in quality yet still getting that "resale" premium. Just like reputation helped Toyota, it can hurt as well. That has been reflected in numerous articles and surveys of new owners. The Matrix is a good example with the camber issues and premature tire wear. In the old days Toyota would own up to those kinds of issues. Now owners are talking class action.
The Avalon is indeed a great car. I bought it used for what a new Lucerne will cost. The new warranty is nice as well. I think it might be time to try out the Americans before their reliability credentials become common place and prices rise.
When Buick and Cadillac is rated higher by new owners than Lexus its time to take a look.
and if it were a similarly sized GM sedan?
Well according to KBB.com a top of the line Avalon will bring in about $1500 more than a top of the line Impala with the same options condition and miles. I will bet you that the Impala was much less than the Avalon.
I get that argument all the time from Toyota and Honda owners about my Hyundai. Sure the Hyundai has a much lower resale value but at this point in time if I get $5 for my Hyundai I am ahead of the game than if I bought a Honda or Toyota simply because I would have paid about 3 grand more for a comparable Honda or Toyota.
In short yes they do have a higher resale value but they cost more to begin with and in most cases it doesn't pay off.
in my opinion RESALE / demand is ALWAYS good. I'd never buy a car I thought I'd have difficulty selling.
Well in my opinion resale value should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to what should influence a buying decision. First off resale value is of no comfort if 1.) you don't like the car or 2.) it doesn't fit your needs or 3.) both of the above.
Secondly in almost every case you pay more up front for that higher resale value and that upfront payment is rarely fully realized on the resale.
And finally the longer you keep a car the less resale value is an issue. As for me I plan on keeping cars until the wheels fall off and in that case any car will be only worth parts. So resale is totally meaningless for me.
when the depreciation is !#$%^&* to begin with, you're starting off on the wrong foot IMHO.
I would disagree because as stated before the cars with higher resale value are always higher in price to begin with. It makes little sense to buy car 'A' with a sales price of $25,000 that will have a $7,500 resale value 6 or 7 years down the road over car 'B' that sells for $22,000 that will have a $5,000 resale value under the same circumstances. That is unless you like car 'A' better for reasons other than resale value.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D