Are you a current Michigan-based car shopper? A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/2 for details.
I orginally posted on the real-word trade-in values about this deal but, this question seems more appropriate here. I am looking to upgrate my current '94 Dakota club cab w/ 148k miles for a newer one. I found one at a local dealer that has been on their lot since June. It was heavly discounted on the website ( about 4k off of the listed price at the lot ). I talked to the internet salesman this morning he said the computer showed it under contract, but he called back and said it had been slated to go to auction due to it being onthe lott too long, but he told them to hold off as I was interested in it (talk about timing).
The only issue is my trade. I would have liked to sell it privately, but due to this timimg, may opt to trade it( if they'll take it). I'm not looking for a whole lot for it, and would take the estimate I got on the other board.
Now, knowing that the truck was going to auction, where they'll probably get less than their listed price (?) what, if any, room do I have for further negotiations, or a better deal on my trade? I have an OTD price in mind that would do the deal in about 5 minutes should the test drive go smoothly. Should I start with that and hang firm, or go a few hunderd below to give the dealer a chance for at least one bump?
Thanks,
Peeter
ps, I've already secured financing through my credit union, but would give them a chance to finance if they can match or beat the rate.
(?) what, if any, room do I have for further negotiations, or a better deal on my trade?
Just a guess here but they probably have no room if they are sending the car to auction. I wouldn't fight to much because as we know they have to get rid of the vehicle. I hope it works out for you.
I'm hoping it works out too. I really don't want to try and grind them, but I don't want to give away my trade either. My optimal target price and drop dead price where I'll sell it myself are about 1k apart. I'll be willing to meet in the middle to get a deal done quickly.
Snake, you must DRIVE one before making these statements. Before I drove it, I was worried about the power at 170 hp. After driving, I was very impressed with the build quality, handling AND acceleration. It is equipped with the CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) and has paddle shifters to allow for manual shifting without a clutch. It enables great control and feel for the road. <------Fun factor.
Drive one. You might get over the name and be impressed. I was!
Edit: For folks who keep posting about it without test driving, do yourself a favor and test drive. The CVT provides good acceleration at any RPM. It's more than adequate for someone who is looking for a 4 cylinder. -Moo
I did test it, it is greatly underpowered and while handles ok its nothing to write home about.
Sorry its not that great a car and the name really is a bad choice. One of the definitions of rogue is a horse inclined to shirk or misbehave, not a good name choice.
Plus our salesman was not the best salesman (well he wasn't that good and I can see he won't be there long).
I was under whelmed with the car. As plekto said a Rav-4 would be better.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh, I must have misunderstood your post. I thought you said the "Rogue" was a terrible name and then walked away.
I was pleased with the acceleration and handling, but everyone has an opinion. I test drove a RAV 4 and and a CR-V. The competition I'm worried about isn't the Toyota, but the Honda product. We'll see what happens in market share. I'm sure Toyota will still sell 600k of them to everyone elses 300k. Toyota is on a steamroll.
The name choice to me is very funny. I don't know what most people associate the word "rogue" with, but one meaning is a scoundrel..... very strange. On the other hand, I haven't had one customer comment on it yet either. So, perhaps many folks just don't really think about. It's just another equally stupid name to them like RX300 or FX35 or Taurus or Fusion.... you name it. There's some ridiculous names out there for sure.
You beat me to it. I own three Toyotas and am thoroughly unimpressed. With my 06 Tundra, it was delivered with 3 bad tires, which I didn't notice until taking it out on the highway, the test drive was fine. And it took 3 trips to the dealer for them to finally replace all four tires. The molding around the windows on my wife's 04 Highlander is starting to show signs of age and beginning to crack.
On top of this, the Toyota dealers here are a royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed], especially the sales folks. Me thinks Toyota's steamroll is about to come to a screeching halt.
Good article and point. I was referring to the amount of vehicles they have been selling. However, their quality is definitely hurting because of it. I saw a crazy number the other day that they had more recalls than cars produced last year. That's staggering.
Anyhow, like I said. I think the Honda is a good product and our toughest competition. I'm not real worried about the Rav-4.
I agree it's a bad name for a car but look whose talking about names. What's that handle you use here?
Its a nickname that a cousin of mine tagged me with back in the 60's when I was just grasshigh to a kneehopper. She actually gave me and all my siblings nicknames but mine is the only one that stuck. It basically comes from the fact that one time my cousin tried to get me to do some chores in the house and I resisted (hey I was only like 3 at the time). She finally gave up stating that I was as slippery as a snake and managed to weasel out of it. Hence snakeweasel.
I have lived up to that name so many times its simply amazing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
New to the forum, so I apologize for any missteps I may have.
Is there a way to find out how long a vehicle has been on the lot, without asking the dealer? Has anyone ever used this information to negotiate a better deal?
You'll have to find the specifics for the vehicle that you are looking at. Some vehicles have a manufacturing date writtten on a sticker on the drivers door jamb. Others you can ask the dealer, who can look it up in their computer. I didn't have (nor did the dealer) have any problems in answering the manufacturing date question when I recently bought.
Whether it has any real relevance in negotiations, that's a whole separate discussion. Some will say definitely, as it relates to how aged it is, how much carrying cost interest is racking up, how many test drive miles are getting on it, etc. Others would argue has no relevance, you can get just as good a deal on another lot car as that one....and the price is set by supply and demand market conditions.
Is there a way to find out how long a vehicle has been on the lot, without asking the dealer? Has anyone ever used this information to negotiate a better deal?
One thing you can do is look at the stock numbers. Most dealerships I know use stock numbers that go in consecutive order. example would F70015 will be the old stock number and the newer car will have a stock number of F71237...
You can also ask.. but like the other poster said it won't matter. If you are looking at new It will tell you the production date on the inside of the door, on the invoice and the Certificate of origin.
If it is a used car you can do a carfax and it can sometimes tell you when the dealer took it into inventory.
the vin tag on the drivers door jamb show the date (mo/year) of manufactur. SO, add a little tracel time and you get a good idea.
My last car was a 2005 Accord that I got right around Xmas. It was the last 5 speed left over (may have been a few other strays around). But, even though it was a few months past the '06 arrivals, it was actually fairly new, since it was built in 8/05.
So, it couldn't have arrived in NJ until late august/early Sept, so even though it was a left over, it still was suffering from lot rot (although the battery died between Oct. when I first drove it, and Dec. when I decided to go back and buy it!
I can't decide between an 08 Corolla CE (loss leader vehicle with no added options, it even has roll-up windows) for $14,313 out the door -- or an 08 Honda Civic LX sedan for $18,218.37 out the door.
I offered $14K out the door for the Corolla at one dealership and they refused.
If I haven't found any lower prices from competitors, is there any other tactic to get them to lower the price?
I can't decide between an 08 Corolla CE (loss leader vehicle with no added options, it even has roll-up windows) for $14,313 out the door -- or an 08 Honda Civic LX sedan for $18,218.37 out the door.
First off you’re the one that has to decide which car you want. Nobody here knows better than you what will make you happy.
I offered $14K out the door for the Corolla at one dealership and they refused.
Ok, let’s suppose you’ve made up your mind and you want the Corolla. If the dealer has your name and phone number there is a pretty good chance that you will get a call before the end of the month. Salesmen are always more motivated at the end of the month. However, keep in mind this is a pretty stripped down model and they might not have many to choose from and this one might already be gone.
Also, since this is a stripped down model, there may not be another $300 left in the car. If this is really the car you want, you may have to pay the going rate but the only way you know the going rate is to do some reseach then shop around. You still have some month left to do this.
Let us know how you did.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am planning to buy a Chrysler product soon w/ a Employee Choice PIN from my neighbor. Can anybody give me advice on the best way to proceed--I've never bought w/ one of these before. Thanks for the advice!
pyg....not as familiar with Chrysler "special pricing", but I am with Ford's and GM's (should be similar). First, get the Ts&Cs of using the PIN. Your neighbor should be able to provide that, or at least direct you to where the terms are.
Print that out. Go to your local Chrysler dealer with your PIN. Show them the terms. Pick out a car. Price is already fixed (usually best price avaiable, outside of employee purchase plans.
Buy the car. Actually, these are pretty simple transactions. You get a great price with minimum of fuss.
When you talk "out the door", you have to remember that the dealer has no control over sales tax and license. They are what they are. We simply collect these fees and send them to the state.
It sounds like they walked you, in the case of that stripper Corolla for 313.00.
What exactly do you want? Over the course of ownership, 300.00 is nothing. They are probably at break-even point as it is on that car.
I suppose they could call you or simply sell it to someone else. Sometimes there just isn't any more room to give especailly in cars like these.
I think you'd be better off buying something w/power windows. Your resell potential, whenever that is, will be horrible.
I don't thing PW is that big a deal, especially in a lower end vehicle and once you weigh in the cost of replacing the motors over the course of ownership. Now if he said no A/C, that would be a big issue.
Unless it's a Volkswagen, replacing window motors is a rare thing. No A/C will kill the sale of any car and crank windows will eliminate a lot of buyers too.
Window motors in GM--have to disagree on that one!
I have a GM 10 year-old and a 5-year old, no motor problems. I had a 93 also and it needed no motor in 150K miles. OTOH our friends who bought a Jetta had various window problems. The Jetta turned into a Beetle recently; we'll see what problems they have with it. (The wife would only buy a Beetle because she had one in a previous life.)
GM used to list both the controller and motor as one part. Since the turn of the century they no longer do that since receiving numerous complaints on the cost of the part as the motors would fail and not the controllers.
Extended warranty companies warrant the controllers but not the motors. I guess they figure the motors are a consumable item.
There are numerous TSBs across the GM line reminding the techs that they are able to order the motor seperately from the controller to keep warranty costs down.
I don't know what to tell you except, maybe I've just been lucky?
In all of the GM cars I have owned including four vintage Buick Riveras, several Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles, at least two Pontiacs with PW, I have never, once had to replace a PW motor.
And, I don't think they had power windows at the turn of the century.
Unless it's a Volkswagen, replacing window motors is a rare thing.
It wasn't the case with the Accord. I replaced 5 motors. I agree that VWs are worse. Incidentally, I never replaced a PW motor or switch in the Contour or the Caravan. I really don't care if a small car has manual windows. I could roll down all the windows in the Galant from the driver's seat.
I suspect motor problems tend to be supplier problems that aren't discovered until long after the fact. Only one person I know has had GM power window motor problems. Their Gran Am was 1995? The motors were weak in the back doors after all those years; worked well earlier. The channels were never lubed (car was hardly washed). Don't know if it was overwork moving boundup windows or poor motor/magnet materials.
Comments
The only issue is my trade. I would have liked to sell it privately, but due to this timimg, may opt to trade it( if they'll take it). I'm not looking for a whole lot for it, and would take the estimate I got on the other board.
Now, knowing that the truck was going to auction, where they'll probably get less than their listed price (?) what, if any, room do I have for further negotiations, or a better deal on my trade? I have an OTD price in mind that would do the deal in about 5 minutes should the test drive go smoothly. Should I start with that and hang firm, or go a few hunderd below to give the dealer a chance for at least one bump?
Thanks,
Peeter
ps, I've already secured financing through my credit union, but would give them a chance to finance if they can match or beat the rate.
Just a guess here but they probably have no room if they are sending the car to auction. I wouldn't fight to much because as we know they have to get rid of the vehicle. I hope it works out for you.
I'm hoping it works out too. I really don't want to try and grind them, but I don't want to give away my trade either. My optimal target price and drop dead price where I'll sell it myself are about 1k apart. I'll be willing to meet in the middle to get a deal done quickly.
Peeter
I'm sure that is just a plot twist...either that or Nissan wants to place another product.
"Gee dad, thanks for the 350Z Nismo, but it got stolen too!"
"Don't worry honey, I'll get another Nissan next week"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
September 2007: 1801 (down 39% from Sept '06)
Year to date, 2007: 23,669 (down 14% from YTD '06).
These are pretty small numbers as car sales go.
It showed up in Mexico driven by the guy the Guatemalan kids busted out of jail.
Did you find that in Automotive weekly or Ward's?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Dang, that's exactly the same power to weight ratio as a 1988 Buick Park Avenue. Just with 3/4 the torque.
They should change the name to "Toad", because it'll be about as fast as one.
Edit - Just get a Rav-4. Much much better vehicle.
Drive one. You might get over the name and be impressed. I was!
Edit: For folks who keep posting about it without test driving, do yourself a favor and test drive. The CVT provides good acceleration at any RPM. It's more than adequate for someone who is looking for a 4 cylinder.
-Moo
Sorry its not that great a car and the name really is a bad choice. One of the definitions of rogue is a horse inclined to shirk or misbehave, not a good name choice.
Plus our salesman was not the best salesman (well he wasn't that good and I can see he won't be there long).
I was under whelmed with the car. As plekto said a Rav-4 would be better.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I was pleased with the acceleration and handling, but everyone has an opinion. I test drove a RAV 4 and and a CR-V. The competition I'm worried about isn't the Toyota, but the Honda product. We'll see what happens in market share. I'm sure Toyota will still sell 600k of them to everyone elses 300k. Toyota is on a steamroll.
The name choice to me is very funny. I don't know what most people associate the word "rogue" with, but one meaning is a scoundrel..... very strange. On the other hand, I haven't had one customer comment on it yet either. So, perhaps many folks just don't really think about. It's just another equally stupid name to them like RX300 or FX35 or Taurus or Fusion.... you name it. There's some ridiculous names out there for sure.
-Moo
They sure are....
Toyota's Steamroll
I did, that doesn't mean my wife didn't want to try it out.
I still think its the worse name for a car since GM came up with "Impact".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
On top of this, the Toyota dealers here are a royal pain in the [non-permissible content removed], especially the sales folks. Me thinks Toyota's steamroll is about to come to a screeching halt.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Anyhow, like I said. I think the Honda is a good product and our toughest competition. I'm not real worried about the Rav-4.
-Moo
How about "Avenger"? Sounds like you're driving a superhero.
-Moo
They guy told me the name and I laughed saying :"what a god awful name for a car"...
I agree it's a bad name for a car but look whose talking about names. What's that handle you use here? :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Its a nickname that a cousin of mine tagged me with back in the 60's when I was just grasshigh to a kneehopper. She actually gave me and all my siblings nicknames but mine is the only one that stuck. It basically comes from the fact that one time my cousin tried to get me to do some chores in the house and I resisted (hey I was only like 3 at the time). She finally gave up stating that I was as slippery as a snake and managed to weasel out of it. Hence snakeweasel.
I have lived up to that name so many times its simply amazing.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I figured it had to be something like that. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Is there a way to find out how long a vehicle has been on the lot, without asking the dealer? Has anyone ever used this information to negotiate a better deal?
Many thanks.
Whether it has any real relevance in negotiations, that's a whole separate discussion. Some will say definitely, as it relates to how aged it is, how much carrying cost interest is racking up, how many test drive miles are getting on it, etc. Others would argue has no relevance, you can get just as good a deal on another lot car as that one....and the price is set by supply and demand market conditions.
One thing you can do is look at the stock numbers. Most dealerships I know use stock numbers that go in consecutive order. example would F70015 will be the old stock number and the newer car will have a stock number of F71237...
You can also ask.. but like the other poster said it won't matter. If you are looking at new It will tell you the production date on the inside of the door, on the invoice and the Certificate of origin.
If it is a used car you can do a carfax and it can sometimes tell you when the dealer took it into inventory.
My last car was a 2005 Accord that I got right around Xmas. It was the last 5 speed left over (may have been a few other strays around). But, even though it was a few months past the '06 arrivals, it was actually fairly new, since it was built in 8/05.
So, it couldn't have arrived in NJ until late august/early Sept, so even though it was a left over, it still was suffering from lot rot (although the battery died between Oct. when I first drove it, and Dec. when I decided to go back and buy it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
or an 08 Honda Civic LX sedan for $18,218.37 out the door.
I offered $14K out the door for the Corolla at one dealership and they refused.
If I haven't found any lower prices from competitors, is there any other tactic to get them to lower the price?
Thanks!
or an 08 Honda Civic LX sedan for $18,218.37 out the door.
First off you’re the one that has to decide which car you want. Nobody here knows better than you what will make you happy.
I offered $14K out the door for the Corolla at one dealership and they refused.
Ok, let’s suppose you’ve made up your mind and you want the Corolla. If the dealer has your name and phone number there is a pretty good chance that you will get a call before the end of the month. Salesmen are always more motivated at the end of the month. However, keep in mind this is a pretty stripped down model and they might not have many to choose from and this one might already be gone.
Also, since this is a stripped down model, there may not be another $300 left in the car. If this is really the car you want, you may have to pay the going rate but the only way you know the going rate is to do some reseach then shop around. You still have some month left to do this.
Let us know how you did.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A non-Saturn vehicle..if that matters. Does the no haggle concept extend to the vehicles they've taken on trade?
Backstory:
I'm looking at an 03 Elantra GLS, 56K, AT, non ABS, 1 owner, clean carfax, seems to be a clean car...pending my mechanic inspection.
$7990 + $599 dealer prep :surprise:
Any hope or tips for a good deal?
Edmunds, 6475; NADA, 6875.
Print that out. Go to your local Chrysler dealer with your PIN. Show them the terms. Pick out a car. Price is already fixed (usually best price avaiable, outside of employee purchase plans.
Buy the car. Actually, these are pretty simple transactions. You get a great price with minimum of fuss.
It sounds like they walked you, in the case of that stripper Corolla for 313.00.
What exactly do you want? Over the course of ownership, 300.00 is nothing. They are probably at break-even point as it is on that car.
I suppose they could call you or simply sell it to someone else. Sometimes there just isn't any more room to give especailly in cars like these.
They have terrible resale values and are difficult to sell as used cars.
If they are asking a thousand over NADA retail and adding a 599.00 prep charge, I think you could do MUCH better somewhere else!
A prep fee on a used car???
I don't thing PW is that big a deal, especially in a lower end vehicle and once you weigh in the cost of replacing the motors over the course of ownership.
Now if he said no A/C, that would be a big issue.
My 1989 Buick that we bought new and still have has never had one changed.
Better make that 99%.
I have a GM 10 year-old and a 5-year old, no motor problems. I had a 93 also and it needed no motor in 150K miles. OTOH our friends who bought a Jetta had various window problems. The Jetta turned into a Beetle recently; we'll see what problems they have with it. (The wife would only buy a Beetle because she had one in a previous life.)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM used to list both the controller and motor as one part. Since the turn of the century they no longer do that since receiving numerous complaints on the cost of the part as the motors would fail and not the controllers.
Extended warranty companies warrant the controllers but not the motors. I guess they figure the motors are a consumable item.
There are numerous TSBs across the GM line reminding the techs that they are able to order the motor seperately from the controller to keep warranty costs down.
In all of the GM cars I have owned including four vintage Buick Riveras, several Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles, at least two Pontiacs with PW, I have never, once had to replace a PW motor.
And, I don't think they had power windows at the turn of the century.
It wasn't the case with the Accord. I replaced 5 motors. I agree that VWs are worse. Incidentally, I never replaced a PW motor or switch in the Contour or the Caravan.
I really don't care if a small car has manual windows. I could roll down all the windows in the Galant from the driver's seat.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That we think that the turn of the century was 1899 to 1900?
What I meant by turn of the century was 1999 to 2000