I think one of my reason's for considering the email route is because it takes the emotion out of the purchase for me. And the very last thing I want to do is make a 25K impulse purchase. Whatever I buy I want to last me a good 7 or 8 years (at least). And I'm a total sucker for the whole, "no one sells for less than MSRP" or the "these are really hard to find, so we don't negiogate much". I've come really close twice to signing on the the dotted line, and only because I walked away am I not driving something that has the resale value of a rock.
I'd like some feedback here. Am looking at Hondas right now and have gone to one particular dealer (two times) to drive an 04,06 and 07 CRV in the past 3 wks. Have been very honest but non-comittal w/saleslady, whom has pretty much been the same, telling her I plan to buy in 1-3 months, though I am nervous about unloading 85K car that has given me dreadful probs and can't wait to get rid of it!
We hadn't talked numbers yet but I got some quotes from my credit union's motor veh certif program which directed me to the only particpating dealer in area who is said to give me a car for these exact numbers, which I take to be true. (I am also preapproved for the lowest rate I can find anywhere there)I now phoned back the salesperson i first dealt with to give her a heads up and see if she wants to compete, since she took the time to show me the car in the first place and develop the interest. Her response when i mentioned the specifics of the dollar amounts (I am looking at 2 dif models) was again, a non-committal "I think we can probably get pretty close"
So far I feel comfortable dealing with her and I'd love to give my business to her -- but if this other dealer can give me a "non-haggle price" .... how much should I expect her to compete? I will call her back at the end of the week when I have the final say from the credit union, but in the meantime, should I take her response to mean that she is not telling me anything unless she's sure I'm ready to buy? I just hate the game playing already and her version of "close" and mine, I suspect, may differ. And honestly, the idea of walking into a dealer and paying a price $400 over invoice (or whatever it actually is, I don't have paper in front of me) is pretty nifty.
I feel an odd obligation to this lady because she has been relatively non-pressue up until now and decent to work with. However, I am not willing to pay $1000 more for a car to "thank" her either.
Feedback from folks would be lovely!
I am a frank person who has been pretty successful at buying the last 2 cars. I want to be fair but I also don't care to pay more when it isn't necessary either. I know it is her job to show me the cars they've got and develop the relationship to her customer, but why do I feel like I'm cheating or something?
It sounds like you have appreciated the approach and time provided by the first saleslady. I'm guessing she works the retail sales floor, and so pricing may vary slightly depending on the circumstances at the time you are ready to sign the contract. For instance, they might be willing to go slightly lower at the end of the month (to meet monthly sales quotas), or if volume is temporarily up while sales are down, etc. Hence, she likely doesn't want to give you her final price until you are ready to buy.
How long is it going to take that other dealer to give you that "non-haggle price"? These program purchases usually make the purchase experience quicker and easier, but I've found I can often negotiate slightly lower prices on my own. I think Halloween might be a good time for you to negotiate! Actually, I've heard December is a great time to buy a car, but I don't know first-hand, because I've never been in the market at that time of year.
Regardless, try to give the first saleslady one chance to meet the price. Also consider your trade-in. Compare the trade-in bids from both dealers. If your area dealers are similar to ours in Arizona, ask about any Doc Fees they charge. Around here, dealers set their own prices, and they seem to range anywhere from $200 to $400.
By the way, I am considering a new Passat sedan as an option for my next car. Based on your experiences with your 85K Passat, do you think I should reconsider?
You left out the smiley but like many things expressed in writing you need to know that comments like that are not very funny. Let's stick to the discussion without such archaic stereotyping.
I recentlty learned about package of car buying tips/information published by an outfit called Fighting Chance. They have their own website which explains this buying service. Cost is $35. Sounds reasonable but I have never heard of them. Anyone here have any knowledge of their product?
All things being equal, the dealer would rather sell you existing inventory. The dealership is paying interest on it, and the sooner that it sells it, the sooner it gets to collect its holdback, and replace that item with another vehicle that can also generate a profit. Also, if the salesperson or sales manager is pressured to hit a number now, i.e. making this month's sales target to gain some extra commission, this special order that you want won't necessarily help them to get there, so it can be less appealing.
The problem you have is that if you go to the dealership making it known that you have very specific requirements, this will be used against you. The more important some feature, option, term, etc. is to you, the more that you will be expected to pay for it in some way, which arguably reduces your leverage.
If I were in your shoes, I'd go the dealership without first making your specific needs clear. Have them show you the existing inventory (even though you know that it doesnt't work for you), go through the test drive dance, etc., and then start expressing your "disappointment" in what's on the lot. After you've consumed their time to the point that they want to convert their investment of time and effort into a sale, then start asking about placing a special order, and haggle for it with roughly the same expectations for price (relative to the invoice, etc.) that you could pay for something on the lot.
The thing is, while the dealership would rather sell you existing inventory, it also makes good margins on selling an ordered vehicle, too (barring any weird combinations of colors, options, etc. that only you, and nobody else, would want -- a weird package is something that won't want to get stuck with, in case you back out of the deal.) It actually maximizes profit on a special order, because its finance charges will be kept to a minimum (vehicle arrives, and you pay for it almost immediately), so almost the entire holdback goes to servicing its profit. But still, it prefers to sell existing inventory for the reasons provided above, so keep that in mind as you deal with them.
dg....thanks for the fake Rolex tip....not in the market for one (or even a real one), though.
I think more an more deealerships are actually using the internet to help them sell. Personally, about the only thing I use the internet for is to see if any particular dealership has the exact car I want. If they do, and if they're close, I'll make the trip.
jmonroe seems to have the e-mail only negotiating down pat, though. I've never tried e-mail, fax blasts, etc negotiating methods.
Regarding "car buying" WEB sites....there's a bunch of them. Fighting Chance is one. There's another called carbuyingsecrets.com. Some give good advice. Some pretty much just dole out common sense.
MOst, if not all, the information you get from those sites, you can get here at Edmunds for free (MSRP, Invoice, incentives, etc). I also look at Carsdirect.com just to get a "feel" for what they can get a car for. I can usually better their numbers...usually by quite a bit, just by showing up at the dealership, however. The newspaper ads are another good source of information regarding what any given dealer, on any given brand, will sell the model your interested in.
In short expect to pay more for your vehicle. What pch has said is true a dealership wants to make the sale now rather than a month or so from now. As with anything else something special ordered has the potential to cost more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
having a buying service fixed price is certainly nice. But, dealers routinely match their competitors prices to make a sale.
One caveat is that much of the advice you get here assumes that you are buying something that is normally in stock, and is being cold in a competitive marketplace. If you are buying some super hot/none to be found vehicle, all bets are off.
Anyway, if you like the saleswomen, the dealership, etc., and it is a more convenient place for you to buy, then just take your price (and documentation) in, and simply say that you can go to dealer X down the road and buy for $YY,yyy, but you would rather buy from the lady you know, if they can match the price.
The buying service prices are usually good, but not absolutely rock bottom, so odds are that you dealer can sell at that price and still do OK on the deal.
Also, by walking in with a price in hand, you are presenting yourself (or should be at this point) as a serious buyer, and you are willing to make a decision right then. That is, you should be prepared to sign the papers if they accept your offer.
Other fees (doc fee, etc.) can vary among dealers, so call the buying service place first and get an out the door #, and do the same at the place you want to buy.
I am a fleet manager and I spec out a few vehicles each year for my fleet. The first two things which I learned is that you have to know what you want the vehicle to do for you and you have to consider what you need to have on thevehicle to eventually resell the vehicle.
Most cargo vans have sliding doors on one side or another. Putting cargo doors on both sides really affects the amount of cargo that can be carried. If you plan to put bins and racks in the van, it also affects their placement and the amount of tools, equipment and the like that can be carried.
A different grill? That is a new one. As for a different color, that is don ALL the time.
IMHO, you really should be working with an upfitter who will purchase the vehicle directly from the manufacturer and upfit the vehicle with whatever you want (including all the necessary logo work). I am not going to recommend one as this forum is not for generating business.
Do realize that all the van OEMs (think Big 3) have equipment allowances that they offer with each van package that they sell. Usually, it is low-end stuff but you can upgrade.
This is an odd situation. I have $3,000 in GM earnings on an original GM card (no caps by type of car).
Our existing GM's have been poor quality and have recently concluded we have NO desire to purchase a GM vehicle and my wife would like a Nissan of some sort, but you don't just throw away $3,000.
Is it even feasible to Purchase a new GM for $15,000 to take advantage of the rewards, drive it 2 miles to the Nissan dealer and trade it in? Just wondering what type of bath I would take on this.
#1 - I'll pay about $800 for tax/title in my state and I'll be out that amount regardless.
#2 - Any guess what I'd get for trade-in out my $15,000?
Just wondering if this is a viable option.
Would families of dealership more receptive to this idea? (A dealer that has both a GM and a Nissan dealership)
Plan B would be just to take a 2-year lease on GM to use up the earnings.
I don't think you should look at this as throwing $3,000 away. Depending on what type of vehicle you are purchasing, you will be taking a sizable bath. Much more than $3,000 worth.
If you have at least $800 that you are going to be out, that means that you need to have less than $2,200 lost on the trade-in value of your vehicle to have profited from the GM money.
I would expect that your trade-in price would be at least below that. It is definitely not worth the time and energy, imo. Don't support GM anymore even by using their 'deals'. It looks like you're still buying into them.
Go buy a new Nissan or another import. Start enjoying cars again with some good quality.
She's being vague with you because she wants to get you in there, where she can play the emotion games and get you to pay a higher price. Don't fall for it! Get a quote from her in WRITING. Ask her to fax you a SIGNED "buyer's order" for the car you want at the price you want. If she refuses to do that, then walk away - she's not being honest with you. Or ask to speak with her manager and repeat the request. Remember - sales people are paid on commission, and their highest priority is to make money (for themselves).
My advice is to take a loss on those GM earnings. You most likely will not make much (if anything) doing that. It will most likely cost you some money. That Nissan dealer will have to make some money on selling the car so you won't get full value for it.
What you might want to do is see if someone you know wants to buy a GM. Buy it for them then have them pay you for the car and let them have a little of those earnings (say the car costs $18,000 so you buy it for $15K plus your earnings let your friend pay you $17k for it). That way you both make out a little, you get some of your earning back and your friend gets a car for a little less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A dealership will offer you something under wholesale Kelley Blue Book. That makes your plan tough.
A few possibilities:
-Fuhgedaboutit. This isn't real money here, this is basically a coupon of sorts (which, admittedly, you've sort of paid for.) Not quite the same thing, but when I get coupons in the Sunday paper for frozen pizza, I don't feel that I'm losing money when I don't use them.
-If the points can be exchanged with someone else, then get someone to buy them from you at a discount. But I doubt that these points are transferable.
-Go find someone buying a GM car, and find a way to participate in the purchase so that you can apply the points, get paid something for them, and then get your name off of the title immediately thereafter. This sounds like a pain in the backside, but you might be able to pull it off.
-Buy a highly popular GM car (Solstice, for example) that you can turn around and resell at a premium -- perhaps line up a buyer for it first before pulling the trigger. But this is obviously risky, and inconvenient.
Overall, I'd be inclined to probably let it go. But whatever happens, good luck with it.
or get a quasi-GM car, although the only one I can think of right now is the Pontica Vibe, which is basically the same as a Toyota matrix.
I wouldn't buy the car just because of the card. To me, the cardinal sin of car ownership is buying the deal and getting a car you don't want.
You might be able to work out some kind of in/out deal, but I imagine it will be too much hassle and exposure for most dealers to get involved in. But, doing it privately seems reasonable.
All you need is a relative that is going to buy a GM anyway. Yo umake the deal, get 3K off, net out the tax (leaving you with ~2K), and sell it to them for 1K off the regular sales price, and you are both ahead of the game. As long as you both pay the taxes due!
Wonder if you could buy it out of state, and while it is on a temp transport tag, resell it? If you never register it, you won't have to pay the tax... It might even be legal!
Profolon, what are you looking for? If you think Nissans are better quality than GM, you could be fooling yourself. Nissan’s quality and reliability has dropped ever since Renault has bought them.
If you look at the Consumer Reports reliability rating, the last published survey was for the 2005 model year, Impala is rated higher than the Altima and Maxima (+40%, +20% and +10% respectively over average). Titan and Quest are worst in its class with -101% and 133% worse than average.
Let us know what you’re buying, and I will tell how it’s rated by CR.
Are you asking questions that they're not answering? Or are they just not telling you what you really want to hear in the first place?
If it's the first case, the next time this happens, ask to speak to the sales manager - walk to the sales office if you have to. Then ask to speak to a salesman who'll answer your questions.
As for the second, if you go to the "Stores from the Sales Frontline" forum, I'm sure you'll have a couple of the sales folks there defend how "they've been doing this for a while, and know what people are interested in". I call BS on this, but they're the ones making a living at it. In any case, perhaps it's just the salesperson.
If you think Nissans are better quality than GM, you could be fooling yourself. Nissan’s quality and reliability has dropped ever since Renault has bought them.
Depending on the price of the GM vehicle, it may not make much financial sense to buy a car for someone else because the tax issue.
When you buy it, taxes will have to be paid. If you "sell" it to a friend, taxes will have to paid all over again. If it is a "gift" to a friend, gift taxes are triggered.
There is one way that the points can be used by someone else - put them on your credit card and have them redeem the points. Obviously, a high degree of trust is required but it can be done.
In fact, a longtime friend and I planned to execute such a plan earlier this year when I was contemplating buying a GTO. He had learned about the technique when he was selling GM products. As it developed, I bought a Mustang so he still has the points.
I appreciate sticking up for us females, tidester....For the record, my main point was that just that I don't want to waste the salesperson's time and equally important, in my book, I don't want her wasting mine. I guess I simply expect that respect to go both ways, is all. I try to treat others the way I'd like to be treated. Car salespersons are people too. I would like the chance to reinforce the habits of a reputable salesperson who deals with folks honestly if it works in my favor too by giving her my business...but it must be a win-win for that.
As for overanalyzing the purchase process, well, I can only say that if I am going to drop 20-25K, I want the decision to be the right one for all of us. If a dealer is a pain to work with during buying I cannot imagine service will be much better! As I haven't negotiated in a few years and didn't have any firm numbers to expect a dealer to adhere to, I needed the experience of you folks out there. I know it isn't all about fairness, but I do want to be true to myself in the process as well. Some people will do anything for a buck, but the right car from the right person matters as well in my book.
Oh, BTW the motor veh cert program #'s are exactly that. If I find a model I like in their stock I pay exactly that price, plus destination charge, of course. The numbers are good for 90 days, I think....So I shared them with the salesperson and will await her reply when I arrive at the dealer over the weekend.
thanks again for the info everyone...these forum's are great!!
Having known the Invoice price, and the MSRP, there is a wide margin between the two prices. Although Edmunds.com has advertised TMV prices, I think it's still too much money for the dealers.
And I think they still have incentives from the manufacturers, that even if they sold the vehicles at invoice price plus destination charge, they will still make money.
So what do you guys think? How much mark-up above invoice is fair for the dealers? :confuse:
When you buy it, taxes will have to be paid. If you "sell" it to a friend, taxes will have to paid all over again. If it is a "gift" to a friend, gift taxes are triggered.
If you buy it and register it in their name no additional taxes. Plus that I don't think GM makes a car so expensive to incur gift taxes, few cars will incur gift taxes for the average person.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The 4 cyl Altima is rated +20% over average reliability by the Consumer Reports. Still 20% lower than the Impala and Grand Prix in the "Family Cars" category.
As a side note, Altima is just below Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima, WOW.
Profolon: Although nobody else commented on this, I think you should further investigate your Plan B option.
For example: If your primary choice of car is a 2006 Altima 2.5, which as an aged platform soon to be replaced by a brand new design (MY 2007, due next month), then consider using that $3000 toward leasing a new Pontiac G6 for two years. I've read it's not that bad of a car, and the cost should be relatively modest, after incentives.
When your lease is up, turn in the G6, and buy the new Altima. By then, Nissan should have all the early production bugs out of the system, and you should be able to get a good deal on it. From the pics I've seen, the interior of this upcoming Altima design is significantly improved over the existing model.
Profolon, what are you looking for? If you think Nissans are better quality than GM, you could be fooling yourself. Nissan’s quality and reliability has dropped ever since Renault has bought them.
If you look at the Consumer Reports reliability rating, the last published survey was for the 2005 model year, Impala is rated higher than the Altima and Maxima (+40%, +20% and +10% respectively over average). Titan and Quest are worst in its class with -101% and 133% worse than average.
Let us know what you’re buying, and I will tell how it’s rated by CR.
I'll second this opinion. The quality of Nissan's vehicles has indeed been on the decline for several years now.
rc...it depends on the model and manufacturer of the car you're interested in. Also, things like the dealership's stock status, hot mover/slow mover. Lots of things go into how much the dealership would want to make.
Case in point, I would say any SUV should be selling for close to invoice, less incentives. There are exceptions to that rule. The Lexus 400h hybrid SUV won't sell remotely close to invoice. I just took my mother's Cadillac in for an oil change. Shooting the breeze with a couple of the sales people, the new '07 Escalades are selling for just a bit under MSRP, since they are at the top of the "bling" ladder right now....no incentives.
Yet, a new Tahoe (which is essentially built on the same basic Escalade), has incentives and dealerships are "dealing" on them...probably close to invoice and then subtracting the incentives on an '07 Tahoe will get the deal done.
Same with a car. You won't get a new BMW 335i anywhere remotely close to invoice. But, you can cut a "close to invoice" deal on the '06 X3, since it's newly redone '07 replacement is already on the lots.
Same with the '06 Infiniti G35. You can get some good deals on those because the '07 is a big redesign for the car.
Have you considered maybe the manager may be working many deals at once. Also factoring in a trade or looking at somone else's trade for that matter? I just dont see why a dealership would keep a customer there longer if a price wasnt agreed on and if the dealership didnt use tastless pressure tactics.
I think that any customer with a brain can sense if its a good time to leave. I have waited for an hour of nagotiation and ended up leaving with the price i wanted, if i had left after 15 min i would have never gotten MY price.
Have you considered maybe the manager may be working many deals at once.
yes but that really shouldn't be an issue, especially if you go at a slow time, like tonight for instance.
Also factoring in a trade or looking at somone else's trade for that matter?
Well first off you should never mix the deals, do the trade in after you negotiate the price of the new car. Secondly I never trade in cars, I either sell them privately or junk them (yes I have driven every last mile out of a few cars).
I have waited for an hour of nagotiation and ended up leaving with the price i wanted, if i had left after 15 min i would have never gotten MY price.
We are talking about a car purchase not the Louisiana Purchase. It really shouldn't take long if done right. I rarely go past a half hour and I always get my price someplace.
But I think next time I will use a modified Bobst method.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I just dont see why a dealership would keep a customer there longer if a price wasnt agreed on and if the dealership didnt use tasteless pressure tactics.
time works to the dealers advantage. The longer somebody is in the showroom haggling the higher the chance they will buy....its called wearing out the customer. Its a successful tactic used in alot of sales, not just car sales.
I have been thinking modifying the Bobst method where I make the offer. If they accept fine we have a deal. If they counter offer I will negotiate. If they simply turn it down I will rescind my offer and walk away. If they come back accepting my offer I will inform them that I did rescind it and there is no offer to accept. I will then take that as an offer and either accept it or counter offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
How much mark-up above invoice is fair for the dealers?
Why does it have to be above invoice?? I just purchased a 07 Corolla LE for $173.00 below invoice...
Faxed 15 sales managers, got 8 responses, 10 minutes settling on the price with the dealer, 15 minutes for a test drive, 20 minutes to sign the paperwork and pick up the car. Piece of cake!!!
Even though the deal was below invoice, the dealer would not have sold if he was losing money on the deal. Don't get hung up on the notion that the price must be above invoice.
Shooting the breeze with a couple of the sales people, the new '07 Escalades are selling for just a bit under MSRP, since they are at the top of the "bling" ladder right now....no incentives.
I wouldn't be too quick to believe what salespeople tell you. Cadillac's own website is offering "bonus cash" of $2,145 on Escalades, while Edmund's incentives page notes that incentive, plus a different $5,000 cash back offer. In lieu of that, there's also 0% financing.
It's the job of the salespeople to make the car market seem competitive, in order to create a sense of urgency and support higher prices. But that doesn't mean that you should believe them.
Comments
There is no need to negotiate.
All you have to do is determine the kind of car you want, determine a price you are willing to pay, find a dealer who has that car, and make an offer.
If they accept, pay for the car and drive it home.
If they refuse, come back here for more advice.
We hadn't talked numbers yet but I got some quotes from my credit union's motor veh certif program which directed me to the only particpating dealer in area who is said to give me a car for these exact numbers, which I take to be true. (I am also preapproved for the lowest rate I can find anywhere there)I now phoned back the salesperson i first dealt with to give her a heads up and see if she wants to compete, since she took the time to show me the car in the first place and develop the interest. Her response when i mentioned the specifics of the dollar amounts (I am looking at 2 dif models) was again, a non-committal "I think we can probably get pretty close"
So far I feel comfortable dealing with her and I'd love to give my business to her -- but if this other dealer can give me a "non-haggle price" .... how much should I expect her to compete? I will call her back at the end of the week when I have the final say from the credit union, but in the meantime, should I take her response to mean that she is not telling me anything unless she's sure I'm ready to buy? I just hate the game playing already and her version of "close" and mine, I suspect, may differ. And honestly, the idea of walking into a dealer and paying a price $400 over invoice (or whatever it actually is, I don't have paper in front of me) is pretty nifty.
I feel an odd obligation to this lady because she has been relatively non-pressue up until now and decent to work with. However, I am not willing to pay $1000 more for a car to "thank" her either.
Feedback from folks would be lovely!
I am a frank person who has been pretty successful at buying the last 2 cars. I want to be fair but I also don't care to pay more when it isn't necessary either. I know it is her job to show me the cars they've got and develop the relationship to her customer, but why do I feel like I'm cheating or something?
Because, like all women, you analyze things too much and you want to make everyone happy.
Of course, if you are not a woman, you are allowed to ignore my explanation.
Buy the car for the cheapest price you can, as long as the dealer is not too far from your home.
How long is it going to take that other dealer to give you that "non-haggle price"? These program purchases usually make the purchase experience quicker and easier, but I've found I can often negotiate slightly lower prices on my own. I think Halloween might be a good time for you to negotiate!
Regardless, try to give the first saleslady one chance to meet the price. Also consider your trade-in. Compare the trade-in bids from both dealers. If your area dealers are similar to ours in Arizona, ask about any Doc Fees they charge. Around here, dealers set their own prices, and they seem to range anywhere from $200 to $400.
By the way, I am considering a new Passat sedan as an option for my next car. Based on your experiences with your 85K Passat, do you think I should reconsider?
You left out the smiley but like many things expressed in writing you need to know that comments like that are not very funny. Let's stick to the discussion without such archaic stereotyping.
tidester, host
The problem you have is that if you go to the dealership making it known that you have very specific requirements, this will be used against you. The more important some feature, option, term, etc. is to you, the more that you will be expected to pay for it in some way, which arguably reduces your leverage.
If I were in your shoes, I'd go the dealership without first making your specific needs clear. Have them show you the existing inventory (even though you know that it doesnt't work for you), go through the test drive dance, etc., and then start expressing your "disappointment" in what's on the lot. After you've consumed their time to the point that they want to convert their investment of time and effort into a sale, then start asking about placing a special order, and haggle for it with roughly the same expectations for price (relative to the invoice, etc.) that you could pay for something on the lot.
The thing is, while the dealership would rather sell you existing inventory, it also makes good margins on selling an ordered vehicle, too (barring any weird combinations of colors, options, etc. that only you, and nobody else, would want -- a weird package is something that won't want to get stuck with, in case you back out of the deal.) It actually maximizes profit on a special order, because its finance charges will be kept to a minimum (vehicle arrives, and you pay for it almost immediately), so almost the entire holdback goes to servicing its profit. But still, it prefers to sell existing inventory for the reasons provided above, so keep that in mind as you deal with them.
Come visit New York city and Chinatown in particular - you will find a fake Rolex made from fake gold with fake diamonds for $10-$20
I seriously doubt that they would have any information that you couldn't get here for free.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think more an more deealerships are actually using the internet to help them sell. Personally, about the only thing I use the internet for is to see if any particular dealership has the exact car I want. If they do, and if they're close, I'll make the trip.
jmonroe seems to have the e-mail only negotiating down pat, though. I've never tried e-mail, fax blasts, etc negotiating methods.
Regarding "car buying" WEB sites....there's a bunch of them. Fighting Chance is one. There's another called carbuyingsecrets.com. Some give good advice. Some pretty much just dole out common sense.
MOst, if not all, the information you get from those sites, you can get here at Edmunds for free (MSRP, Invoice, incentives, etc). I also look at Carsdirect.com just to get a "feel" for what they can get a car for. I can usually better their numbers...usually by quite a bit, just by showing up at the dealership, however. The newspaper ads are another good source of information regarding what any given dealer, on any given brand, will sell the model your interested in.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
One caveat is that much of the advice you get here assumes that you are buying something that is normally in stock, and is being cold in a competitive marketplace. If you are buying some super hot/none to be found vehicle, all bets are off.
Anyway, if you like the saleswomen, the dealership, etc., and it is a more convenient place for you to buy, then just take your price (and documentation) in, and simply say that you can go to dealer X down the road and buy for $YY,yyy, but you would rather buy from the lady you know, if they can match the price.
The buying service prices are usually good, but not absolutely rock bottom, so odds are that you dealer can sell at that price and still do OK on the deal.
Also, by walking in with a price in hand, you are presenting yourself (or should be at this point) as a serious buyer, and you are willing to make a decision right then. That is, you should be prepared to sign the papers if they accept your offer.
Other fees (doc fee, etc.) can vary among dealers, so call the buying service place first and get an out the door #, and do the same at the place you want to buy.
Trade in of course will muddy the waters.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Most cargo vans have sliding doors on one side or another. Putting cargo doors on both sides really affects the amount of cargo that can be carried. If you plan to put bins and racks in the van, it also affects their placement and the amount of tools, equipment and the like that can be carried.
A different grill? That is a new one. As for a different color, that is don ALL the time.
IMHO, you really should be working with an upfitter who will purchase the vehicle directly from the manufacturer and upfit the vehicle with whatever you want (including all the necessary logo work). I am not going to recommend one as this forum is not for generating business.
Do realize that all the van OEMs (think Big 3) have equipment allowances that they offer with each van package that they sell. Usually, it is low-end stuff but you can upgrade.
I have $3,000 in GM earnings on an original GM card (no caps by type of car).
Our existing GM's have been poor quality and have recently concluded we have NO desire to purchase a GM vehicle and my wife would like a Nissan of some sort, but you don't just throw away $3,000.
Is it even feasible to Purchase a new GM for $15,000 to take advantage of the rewards, drive it 2 miles to the Nissan dealer and trade it in? Just wondering what type of bath I would take on this.
#1 - I'll pay about $800 for tax/title in my state and I'll be out that amount regardless.
#2 - Any guess what I'd get for trade-in out my $15,000?
Just wondering if this is a viable option.
Would families of dealership more receptive to this idea? (A dealer that has both a GM and a Nissan dealership)
Plan B would be just to take a 2-year lease on GM to use up the earnings.
I don't think you should look at this as throwing $3,000 away. Depending on what type of vehicle you are purchasing, you will be taking a sizable bath. Much more than $3,000 worth.
If you have at least $800 that you are going to be out, that means that you need to have less than $2,200 lost on the trade-in value of your vehicle to have profited from the GM money.
I would expect that your trade-in price would be at least below that. It is definitely not worth the time and energy, imo. Don't support GM anymore even by using their 'deals'. It looks like you're still buying into them.
Go buy a new Nissan or another import. Start enjoying cars again with some good quality.
What you might want to do is see if someone you know wants to buy a GM. Buy it for them then have them pay you for the car and let them have a little of those earnings (say the car costs $18,000 so you buy it for $15K plus your earnings let your friend pay you $17k for it). That way you both make out a little, you get some of your earning back and your friend gets a car for a little less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A few possibilities:
-Fuhgedaboutit. This isn't real money here, this is basically a coupon of sorts (which, admittedly, you've sort of paid for.) Not quite the same thing, but when I get coupons in the Sunday paper for frozen pizza, I don't feel that I'm losing money when I don't use them.
-If the points can be exchanged with someone else, then get someone to buy them from you at a discount. But I doubt that these points are transferable.
-Go find someone buying a GM car, and find a way to participate in the purchase so that you can apply the points, get paid something for them, and then get your name off of the title immediately thereafter. This sounds like a pain in the backside, but you might be able to pull it off.
-Buy a highly popular GM car (Solstice, for example) that you can turn around and resell at a premium -- perhaps line up a buyer for it first before pulling the trigger. But this is obviously risky, and inconvenient.
Overall, I'd be inclined to probably let it go. But whatever happens, good luck with it.
I wouldn't buy the car just because of the card. To me, the cardinal sin of car ownership is buying the deal and getting a car you don't want.
You might be able to work out some kind of in/out deal, but I imagine it will be too much hassle and exposure for most dealers to get involved in. But, doing it privately seems reasonable.
All you need is a relative that is going to buy a GM anyway. Yo umake the deal, get 3K off, net out the tax (leaving you with ~2K), and sell it to them for 1K off the regular sales price, and you are both ahead of the game. As long as you both pay the taxes due!
Wonder if you could buy it out of state, and while it is on a temp transport tag, resell it? If you never register it, you won't have to pay the tax... It might even be legal!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If you look at the Consumer Reports reliability rating, the last published survey was for the 2005 model year, Impala is rated higher than the Altima and Maxima (+40%, +20% and +10% respectively over average). Titan and Quest are worst in its class with -101% and 133% worse than average.
Let us know what you’re buying, and I will tell how it’s rated by CR.
If it's the first case, the next time this happens, ask to speak to the sales manager - walk to the sales office if you have to. Then ask to speak to a salesman who'll answer your questions.
As for the second, if you go to the "Stores from the Sales Frontline" forum, I'm sure you'll have a couple of the sales folks there defend how "they've been doing this for a while, and know what people are interested in". I call BS on this, but they're the ones making a living at it. In any case, perhaps it's just the salesperson.
Good luck.
What about a Saab?
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Our existing GM's have been poor quality and have recently concluded we have NO desire to purchase a GM vehicle...
That's not a real $3000 that you have, it's an enticement to get you to buy something that has little value. A bag of Monopoly Money has more value.
To do what you are contemplating is the definition of .....'throwing good money after bad'
For your sake, listen to what the poster have said. DON'T DO IT !!!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Too bad there aren't any 9-7xs around anymore.
A 9-5 or 9-5 combi would be good.
Agreed.
When you buy it, taxes will have to be paid. If you "sell" it to a friend, taxes will have to paid all over again. If it is a "gift" to a friend, gift taxes are triggered.
There is one way that the points can be used by someone else - put them on your credit card and have them redeem the points. Obviously, a high degree of trust is required but it can be done.
In fact, a longtime friend and I planned to execute such a plan earlier this year when I was contemplating buying a GTO. He had learned about the technique when he was selling GM products. As it developed, I bought a Mustang so he still has the points.
I am looking at a Nissan Altima 2.5 S
As for overanalyzing the purchase process, well, I can only say that if I am going to drop 20-25K, I want the decision to be the right one for all of us. If a dealer is a pain to work with during buying I cannot imagine service will be much better! As I haven't negotiated in a few years and didn't have any firm numbers to expect a dealer to adhere to, I needed the experience of you folks out there. I know it isn't all about fairness, but I do want to be true to myself in the process as well. Some people will do anything for a buck, but the right car from the right person matters as well in my book.
Oh, BTW the motor veh cert program #'s are exactly that. If I find a model I like in their stock I pay exactly that price, plus destination charge, of course. The numbers are good for 90 days, I think....So I shared them with the salesperson and will await her reply when I arrive at the dealer over the weekend.
thanks again for the info everyone...these forum's are great!!
Having known the Invoice price, and the MSRP, there is a wide margin between the two prices. Although Edmunds.com has advertised TMV prices, I think it's still too much money for the dealers.
And I think they still have incentives from the manufacturers, that even if they sold the vehicles at invoice price plus destination charge, they will still make money.
So what do you guys think? How much mark-up above invoice is fair for the dealers? :confuse:
If you buy it and register it in their name no additional taxes. Plus that I don't think GM makes a car so expensive to incur gift taxes, few cars will incur gift taxes for the average person.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As a side note, Altima is just below Hyundai Sonata and Kia Optima, WOW.
Whatever they can get on an open market.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Considering the fact that the invoice contains the destination charge, yes, they will make money.
For example: If your primary choice of car is a 2006 Altima 2.5, which as an aged platform soon to be replaced by a brand new design (MY 2007, due next month), then consider using that $3000 toward leasing a new Pontiac G6 for two years. I've read it's not that bad of a car, and the cost should be relatively modest, after incentives.
When your lease is up, turn in the G6, and buy the new Altima. By then, Nissan should have all the early production bugs out of the system, and you should be able to get a good deal on it. From the pics I've seen, the interior of this upcoming Altima design is significantly improved over the existing model.
If you look at the Consumer Reports reliability rating, the last published survey was for the 2005 model year, Impala is rated higher than the Altima and Maxima (+40%, +20% and +10% respectively over average). Titan and Quest are worst in its class with -101% and 133% worse than average.
Let us know what you’re buying, and I will tell how it’s rated by CR.
I'll second this opinion. The quality of Nissan's vehicles has indeed been on the decline for several years now.
Case in point, I would say any SUV should be selling for close to invoice, less incentives. There are exceptions to that rule. The Lexus 400h hybrid SUV won't sell remotely close to invoice. I just took my mother's Cadillac in for an oil change. Shooting the breeze with a couple of the sales people, the new '07 Escalades are selling for just a bit under MSRP, since they are at the top of the "bling" ladder right now....no incentives.
Yet, a new Tahoe (which is essentially built on the same basic Escalade), has incentives and dealerships are "dealing" on them...probably close to invoice and then subtracting the incentives on an '07 Tahoe will get the deal done.
Same with a car. You won't get a new BMW 335i anywhere remotely close to invoice. But, you can cut a "close to invoice" deal on the '06 X3, since it's newly redone '07 replacement is already on the lots.
Same with the '06 Infiniti G35. You can get some good deals on those because the '07 is a big redesign for the car.
I think that any customer with a brain can sense if its a good time to leave. I have waited for an hour of nagotiation and ended up leaving with the price i wanted, if i had left after 15 min i would have never gotten MY price.
yes but that really shouldn't be an issue, especially if you go at a slow time, like tonight for instance.
Also factoring in a trade or looking at somone else's trade for that matter?
Well first off you should never mix the deals, do the trade in after you negotiate the price of the new car. Secondly I never trade in cars, I either sell them privately or junk them (yes I have driven every last mile out of a few cars).
I have waited for an hour of nagotiation and ended up leaving with the price i wanted, if i had left after 15 min i would have never gotten MY price.
We are talking about a car purchase not the Louisiana Purchase. It really shouldn't take long if done right. I rarely go past a half hour and I always get my price someplace.
But I think next time I will use a modified Bobst method.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
time works to the dealers advantage. The longer somebody is in the showroom haggling the higher the chance they will buy....its called wearing out the customer. Its a successful tactic used in alot of sales, not just car sales.
It can, it can also work against the dealer. Time works to the advantage of he who has more of it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A senior citizen probably has a lot more free time than a salesperson...but,
As long as you have a definite plan in mind when you go to buy a car, then you will probably have an enjoyable experience.
That didn't help Clark Griswold any.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Why does it have to be above invoice?? I just purchased a 07 Corolla LE for $173.00 below invoice...
Faxed 15 sales managers, got 8 responses, 10 minutes settling on the price with the dealer, 15 minutes for a test drive, 20 minutes to sign the paperwork and pick up the car. Piece of cake!!!
Even though the deal was below invoice, the dealer would not have sold if he was losing money on the deal. Don't get hung up on the notion that the price must be above invoice.
I wouldn't be too quick to believe what salespeople tell you. Cadillac's own website is offering "bonus cash" of $2,145 on Escalades, while Edmund's incentives page notes that incentive, plus a different $5,000 cash back offer. In lieu of that, there's also 0% financing.
It's the job of the salespeople to make the car market seem competitive, in order to create a sense of urgency and support higher prices. But that doesn't mean that you should believe them.