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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150
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Comments
Oh and as for the ugly comments on here earlier. I thought it looked butt ugly from seeing pictures, but in real life it actually looks pretty good. I was suprised.
Now, I have no doubt the Titan is a nice truck. I just find it mildly amusing when I hear people trying to justify their purchase decision by running down a competitor. The personal investment some people make in the truck they buy is incredible sometimes.
I have been involved with Miata clubs for 13 years and believe me there are many who believe that the Miata is the best roadster around and will argue the point forever. For me it is just a fun little car..
thanks,
Dusty "
Here's Ward's Auto News Release on it....
http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/microsites/Newsarticle.asp?newsa- rticleid=2666867&srid=10088&instanceid=29125&pageid=5- 991&magazineid=1004&siteid=26
That was for 2003 10Best Engine Awards, the 2004 winners have already been mentioned, and that info will be posted in their site later this month (from what they stated last month).
I still like the Titan most. But it's hard to argue with a person's decision to save a lot of dough.
RAM - I loved the feel of the Hemi, the overall appearance, and the tire/wheel package, but hated the cheap look and feel of the interior (SLT Laredo pkg).
Silverado/Sierra - I like the traction control option on a 2WD and the body style, but (again) hated the cheap interior.
Titan - I like the innovation (rear doors, bed cargo management, tool compartment - but it should be non-metal). Great power train! I don't like the interior or the style.
Tundra - I'm trading mine due to brake and engine problems. It has a nice (but small) interior.
F150 - It's smooth! IMO, it looks and feels like a quality product. Dealers are negotiating and it can be bought for MUCH less than sticker. I've ordered a: 2WD XLT, Reg cab, 6.5' styleside bed, 5.4L, 3.55 LSD, trailer tow, fog lights, rear defrost, rear sensors, keyless entry, and mirror pkg.
Truth be told, I could "survive" without a pickup since I don't haul that much. It would be smarter (MPG) for me to purchase a sedan since I drive about 3K miles each month (job). However, I'm human and we humans are different. We have different needs and desires. I getting what I want, not necessarily what I need.
Each truck listed above is perfect for someone. Check them out (with an open mind) and get what suits you. Have fun doing it and enjoy whatever you get!
However, I'm more interested in your comment about "Independent testing facilities have concluded that the 6.0L Pwerstroke Diesel by Navistar in the F-series is the most reliable."
I'd like to know the name of this independent test facility or the source of the information.
Thanks in advance,
Dusty
The results:
5: Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
4: Tundrea Double Cab
3: Ram 1500 Quad Cab
2: F-150 Supercrew
1: Titan SE Crew Cab
Ford basically got the [non-permissible content removed] kicked out of them by the Titan. The Tundra, Ram, and F-150 were seperated by just 1 point each. Meaning the F-150 could have easily been rated 4th!! If a measily two points had swung the other way. The Titan won over the F-150 by 7 points!
You know, they really didnt bash the Ford in any way during the review. And their largest complaint was, of course, the power of the 5.4L V8, but just an engine seems like a stupid reason to make a Truck lose that badly. C&D has always had the big motor bias, but this time it seems a little bit of a stretch.
Its true that the Ford had the SLOWEST 0-60 time of 9.3 seconds which is simply a sad display of how bad Ford messed up in that department.
The Ford got the worst overal score for powertrain, and surprizingly the second lowest total score for chassis.
I dunno, this is starting to piss me off, i had such high hopes of Ford reserection. I mean second is not bad at all, and this truck is far better than the last but it shows once again that Japan will eventually run american automakers out of business. Its not that the Ford is a bad truck but Ford put its ALL into this truck. I dont know numbers but i know they spent a ton and ton of time and money into this truck. They are veteran truck makers with more resources and knowledge of truck building yet can still lose to a first time effort by Nissan? Nissan isnt even that great of a company. Nissan is not a Toyota or Honda, a step below. Nissan is the Chrysler of Japan, selling out to Renault.
I felt like this truck was the begining something great. The best truck on the market followed by the best large sedan (five hundred), followed by a revolutionary and hopefulyl highly rated car based SUV, followed one of the best midsize sedans (futura). I dunno what the other cars are like, but the fact that Ford spent much more money redeveloping the F-150 then i am sure they have spent on the other new vehicles coming up makes me scared how those other cars will fair against the competition.
Lets hope they are reliable.
The results:
5: Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
4: Tundrea Double Cab
3: Ram 1500 Quad Cab
2: F-150 Supercrew
1: Titan SE Crew Cab
Ford basically got the [non-permissible content removed] kicked out of them by the Titan. The Tundra, Ram, and F-150 were seperated by just 1 point each. Meaning the F-150 could have easily been rated 4th!! If a measily two points had swung the other way. The Titan won over the F-150 by 7 points!
You know, they really didnt bash the Ford in any way during the review. And their largest complaint was, of course, the power of the 5.4L V8, but just an engine seems like a stupid reason to make a Truck lose that badly. C&D has always had the big motor bias, but this time it seems a little bit of a stretch.
Its true that the Ford had the SLOWEST 0-60 time of 9.3 seconds which is simply a sad display of how bad Ford messed up in that department.
The Ford got the worst overal score for powertrain, and surprizingly the second lowest total score for chassis.
I dunno, this is starting to piss me off, i had such high hopes of Ford reserection. I mean second is not bad at all, and this truck is far better than the last but it shows once again that Japan will eventually run american automakers out of business. Its not that the Ford is a bad truck but Ford put its ALL into this truck. I dont know numbers but i know they spent a ton and ton of time and money into this truck. They are veteran truck makers with more resources and knowledge of truck building yet can still lose to a first time effort by Nissan? Nissan isnt even that great of a company. Nissan is not a Toyota or Honda, a step below. Nissan is the Chrysler of Japan, selling out to Renault.
I felt like this truck was the begining something great. The best truck on the market followed by the best large sedan (five hundred), followed by a revolutionary and hopefulyl highly rated car based SUV, followed one of the best midsize sedans (futura). I dunno what the other cars are like, but the fact that Ford spent much more money redeveloping the F-150 then i am sure they have spent on the other new vehicles coming up makes me scared how those other cars will fair against the competition.
Lets hope they are reliable.
I posted about it yesterday over in the "Titan" thread.
Bob
First, you must realize that the difference between you and five or six other people on this board and the evaluation staff at Car & Driver is the fact they have direct access to a printing press. There are a few statistics and a lot of subjective opinion involved in the "standings." Haven't you in the past driven a vehicle and found that at least one aspect of somebody else's evaluation you didn't agree with?
Secondly, if you take a look at all of the recent full-size truck entries are they not a light year or two away from what they each were just two decades ago? Heck, get in a '94 of any make and I think you'll realize the difference. I drove one of our '94 Chevy maintenance vehicles a few days ago and I thought it was a toilet compared to my '03 Dakota.
Regardless of the ego-based biases in here, the truth is that as product goes they've all improved immensely. So maybe Ford is actually a lot closer than you think.
Now that being said, look what's happened to truck prices. The truck product has gotten subjectively "better" largely in part to increasing the sophistication level of the truck and making it more car like. Is this a good thing, or a bad thing. I don't know, but the fact is for Dodge, Ford, and GM the heavy duty segment of the truck market has been steadily growing, indicating MAYBE that the "domestication" of the 1/2 ton PU is being viewed more as the emasculation of the 1/2 ton PU by consumers.
Regards,
Dusty
Interesting observation, and I think there's some truth to it. I see a lot of "truckers" buying 3/4 & 1-ton trucks as personal use vehicles these days, which was unheard of just a few years back. I really do think that they don't want to be associated with those who buy "wimp 1/2 tons." I don't agree with them, but I really do think that sentiment is out there to some degree.
Bob
0-60 times are probably the last consideration for the average truck buyer, if it is even considered at all. As I noted earlier, if that wasn't the case then Ford wouldn't have sold any trucks over the last ten years. Let's face it, if someone highly values 0-60 sprints there are many more enjoyable choices than a pick-up truck.
It's interesting that Nissan has used a technique typically associated with the Big-3, and usually frowned upon by the import fans - upping the displacement to get more power. Whereas the big engines in say, a Freestar or Mustang GT are viewed as throwbacks simply because of their size, the big 5.6 V8 in the Titan is given kudos for producing big power.
Working at Ford stores for many years, I have heard many negative comments about "gas-guzzling behemoths" by the anti-big-3 crowd. I find it interesting that these types of comments have all but disappeared in recent years as virtually every major import brand now sells their own "gas-guzzling behemoths."
I agree with you, too. Still some feel the need to have "the badest" truck around. I've met a couple who own dualies but don't even tow a 15 foot fishing boat.
There is, I think, one other aspect. There's been emphasis placed on the ride of PUs, probably due to the fact that the PU has increasingly become a primary vehicle for a lot of people. So companies have engineered a more supple ride, but at what expense? Have you noticed that actual payloads have decreased in 1/2 ton series from 20 years ago? This has meant that a certain population of commercial buyer has felt the need to move into a heavier truck.
Regards,
Dusty
I don't have a problem with Volvo. I rather like the S-80 my partner has. But I was thinking during this show, that if it had been a Crown Victoria that had rusted away and dropped the tranny & driveline, there would have been no room for the Ford bashing and not enough time in the show remaining to bring up the Pinto, the Bronco II, and the Explorer's woes with the tires.
But Volvo gets a pass for dropping an engine! If that damn thing had actually got loose under the car and flipped it, she would have died. You can bet she would not be looking for another Crown Vic!
Of course the game always continues. Chevy talks about best horsepower "in it's class", and Dodge with their towing on the dragstrip vs an f-150 "in it's class". Try that with a 6.0l next time Mr. Mopar!
The Silverado & Titan don't look too good inside or outside to me.
What does that have to do with anything? Evolution of any product is going to bring forth improvement. This does not mean that the evolved vehicle is better than the rest of the competition. Maybe i am not seeing your point but saying that Ford and GM are doing good as companies because they have been able to make a vehicle better than the last one available is rediculous. I must not understand you point...
"0-60 times are probably the last consideration for the average truck buyer, if it is even considered at all."
I am not in the truck market so i dont really know how it goes... All i know is that i like power... A two second difference 0-60 time in a regular sedan is like an eternity. To me is sounds like ignorance on Fords part. Sure they might sell fine now, but i think people like power. Ford cannot continuously just leave out important things like a powerful powertrain if they plan on keeping the truck market safe from the japanese.
It just blows my mind that they wont do something to stretch 20 hp out of the engine. I dont know what costs are associated with such a thing but man i want complete success. Put it to them Ford! Why wont they do that? Why do things to a 70% success?
"I don't know, but the fact is for Dodge, Ford, and GM the heavy duty segment of the truck market has been steadily growing, indicating MAYBE that the "domestication" of the 1/2 ton PU is being viewed more as the emasculation of the 1/2 ton PU by consumers."
I see your point and it is probably true, but no one doubts the 1/2 ton market is emmensily larger, and i would highly doubt that ford is as worried about making the best 1 ton truck as they are maintaining its lead over Chevy and Dodge in overall sales. And probably 75% of those sales are F-150 sales...
I think this is a key point in vehicle comparisons these days. They have all improved greatly in safety, reliability, ride, and features offered from a few years past, no matter who the manufacturer is. I view everything in life as a tradeoff, including aspects that go into selection of a vehicle. In this case, I agree with others stated here that horsepower in the F150 is 'fine', and for me it is part of the total experience I am looking for. I think its good that people feel a little passion about the cars/trucks they drive - a little like being in love. When I search for a new vehicle and discover that 'feeling', then I know I've found the right one.
"I'd like to know the name of this independent test facility or the source of the information.
Thanks in advance,
Dusty "
I kept the Ward's reference since it's a media outlet that I frequent reguarly and available online for easy view. As to the independent testing facilities, it was a print article which compared various Diesel engine maker's, and in it listed the agencies who monitor this (I'm guessing a JDPower's for Diesel engine design). As to what their agency names where, I cannot remember since this is information from something I read months back.
Landru,
" I find it interesting that these types of comments have all but disappeared in recent years as virtually every major import brand now sells their own "gas-guzzling behemoths." "
Interesting tidbit, the asian manufacturer's TRUCK CAFE is worse than the BIG3. According to an article I read recently on Detroit News.
Biggie,
"Its true that the Ford had the SLOWEST 0-60 time of 9.3 seconds which is simply a sad display of how bad Ford messed up in that department. "
If a fast pick-up is what you would like, there's the F-150 SVT Lighting.
Yeah, I think I know what your refering to now. I have worked with our company's fleet program for a number of years and still very close to the industry. I am not aware of any data that supports the claim that the new Powerstroke ENGINE is more reliable than a Cummins. What you are refering to is data that shows that a diesel Ford truck had a lower reported repair incidence than a Dodge in the first 90 days of service, and I'm pretty certain that even that data is now at least two years old.
While the Ford truck in total may have been "more reliable," that does not mean that the engine itself is the prime contributor.
Dusty
Excellent point!
This performance desire is the result of many PU purchasers owning one as a primary vehicle -- in essence in lieu of a passenger car. That's why speed in general is important to some, and having the claim to the fastest one to feed ego for others.
Dusty
It is not about having the fastest and worrying about fractions of seconds. If it was, then some kind of souped-up version would be the best choice. It was about having something that just doesn't feel sluggish.
The F-150 was so slow it actually felt sluggish trying to quickly accelerate onto a freeway on ramp.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but by the standards of the english language it was not "lacking in respect or seriousness" in my opinion.
The speed differential you're refering to is not the difference between a quarter horse and a elephant. The new F150 may feel slow to you, and maybe it is compared to something else. But of the Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Titan, and Tundra, what are the actual recorded times?
I suspect they are reasonably close, close enough to not make a difference to the average buyer.
Dusty
While the Ford truck in total may have been "more reliable," that does not mean that the engine itself is the prime contributor."
Not exactly since the Powerstroke 6.0L has been only out for a bit over a year. The article stated that what they analyzed were the total running hours when they ran/tested all the diesel engines. This was in reference to one testing facility, although they didn't mention what criteria the second one used.
This article was mainly written because the auto-journalist was discussing the possible push for diesels in the U.S., and the Big 3 Automaker's current plans.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/04/autos-25950.htm
Source; Detroit News
Are you saying this was a lab test of engines?
Can you just point me to the article then?
Dusty
Can you just point me to the article then?
Dusty"
Yes it was lab tested from what the article stated, but being a print article as I stated earlier, (unlike the Ward's information) I wasn't able to save it like a bookmark to use it as a reference.
I've been searching web-based artcles and can't find anything that verifies this. I have Lexus-Nexus in the office and I'll do a search tomorrow.
Dusty
I'm thinking, maybe an online Powerstroke discussion forum, as the next alternative? Maybe they might have a clue.
F150, Titan, Colorado/Canyon twins, Tundra Double cab, SSR, and the SR10 Ram.
The Ram had the fastest time of 4.8 seconds next ws the Titan with 7.2 I will have to get the book I left it in my Explorer to give you the rest of the figures. Although I do remmeber the F150 was over a second behind the Titan at 8. something. With all its 46 variations the Ford can fit many peoples purposes.
3/4 tons are increasingly popular with fleet buyers. I see fewer contractors using half tons every year. The people that LOAD them find they do less repairs if the truck is more than barely adequate.
Harry
Secondly; some first out anecdotal evidence on the Armada. Colleague of mine just acquired one to replace his 98 Tahoe. Stealing the first sale from GM I thought. Then I asked him why the Armada instead of another Tahoe? He said, Oh, I wouldn't have bought another Tahoe anyway, I would have bought a Sequoia, then I saw the Armada and liked it better.
FWIW department only.
I stand corrected, and quite surprized to tell you the truth. Does this mean Ford will be more dedicated towards spending the fund on the Superdutys then the F-150??
Enlighten me...
I remember reading the same article as well. And the Superduties will next be updated for 2006....
Dodge has gone from about 15% 3/4 ton and up in the 1980s to about 60% in 2003. Chevy is about 55% 3/4 ton and up.
After 40+ years my company bought its first LD PUs over 1/2 ton series in 2001 with the addition of two SuperDuties.
Today, if someone runs into you while you are not moving and you are over the rated limits, they will try to make you liable for the "incident".
My next truck will be at least a 3/4 ton.
Paranoia? Welcome to our litigation driven society.
The truck makers are also making a high percentage of half tons in luxury trim, at prices that make a contractor grade 3/4 ton look cheap. Do you see many Titans on the lot with rubber floor mats intead of carpeting and plain vinyl seats, with a cheap radio?
The insurance companies may have some influence with the liability issue as mentioned by akjbmw.
Harry
Their results:
1. Titan
2. F-150
3. Ram (Hemi)
4. Tundra
5. Silverado
Titan was quickest and very well priced in their eyes, I think they found the Ford more refined.
In any case it appears Nissan has a real contender.
Plus the Ford gives you 46 ways to have your F150 which can be a major plus for those who want their truck a very specific way.
DB
What I liked about the Ford Lariat Crew Cab: excellent interior, able to get single options (Nissan must buy bundles), exterior look.
What I like about the Titan LE Crew Cab: the power in the engine, the exhaust sound, side airbags, Utility bed, traction control system, vehicle dynamic control, did I mention the engine?
The actually have a lot in common, but I couldn't get past the sluggishness of the 150. The first time I drove one I thought the power was adequate, until I drove the Titan right after the F-150, no comparison.
You really can't go wrong with either one I liked the multiple safety features of the Titan, plus the power is amazing.
To be honest I actually paid 1K more for the Titan than what I could have gotten the F-150 for, but I liked it that much more.
If people would actually use their brain instead of their heart there wouldn't be all of these people bashing the Titan. I you are bashing it you haven't driven it. It's that simple.
The F-150 will sell because people have bought them for years and won't buy anything else, the product doesn't matter that much.
They are both good trucks, I happen to prefer the Titan. Do yourself a favor before you buy any truck and drive them ALL and be honest with yourself and buy what fits you best.
Sounds like the Titan has something going for it. I can only express my opinion based on sitting in them both. Haven't driven either.
Lincoln's actual goal, it seems with the Gator, is not so much ride & isolation, as it is interior comfort, appeal and luxury features. The Expedition isn't a lot different to drive. The Lincoln has 40 more HP, but otherwise, they're quite similar. Just the appointments and features make the real difference.