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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4
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Good luck with the beamer post impressions once you get it.
Maybe there's a board devoted entirely to manual transmissions.
Speaking of the image, have you noticed how many car ads show some enthusiast ripping through the gears in the manny? About 50% by my unoffical count. Suggests that people apparently are very much attracted by the image.
Zman
At that price range, the heated steering wheel and the overall blend ride of sport and comfort won. I was actually closer to buying the Murano because of its interior layout and more storage.
Everyone has been concentrating on the exterior looks and interior layouts/amenities of these vehicles. The one point that is overlooked is that with the BMW brand in general, the actual components and engineering that goes into the vehcile itself is much higher than most vehicles out there. The items I can repair myself are easy to locate, diagnose and repair myself. How easy is it to change filters, bulbs, oil, coolant, brakes etc after the warranty period expires? I can guarantee that the BMW is easier to do those things to. That is a value in a vehicle that cannot be touched or realized in a test drive.
zman- They may well be attracted to the image but when it comes to buy, they overwhelmingly go for the auto trans (90+%). Which just reinforces the image of the lazy American driver who wants as little involvement as possible with the actual driving experience.
-Frank P.
clpurnell- Regarding the XT's numbers, most of the difference is attributable to the XT's smaller shoes. If one were to spend $2,000 for a plus-one upgrade and a pair of beefier anti-sway bars, I'm willing to bet that the XT's handling numbers would be right up there in the mid to upper .8 range. And you'd still be $10,000 ahead! Of course you still won't have a heated steering wheel or 4-way electric lumbar support :-)
Anybody else remember when the passenger side-view mirror was only available on upper-end cars?
-Frank P.
All of which leads me to my real question: has anyone done a "fly and buy" deal to Europe? You know, fly over, buy for example the VW Passat W8 Wagon in the 6-speed and ship it back. I hear MT's are much easier to get across the pond. Plusses and minuses? Is there a separate board for this?
Zman
That the presence or absence of this 'feature' might actually be the deciding difference between buying or not buying a particular car says something (and it's not good) about just how pampered we have to be these days.
For those really cold days, how about a pair of gloves, for pete's sake?
The KISS principle seems to have become a candidate for the endangered species list. <sigh>
Love the idea that it could run amok and leave the driver unable to steer, that is. Hot molten noxious plastic dripping onto his pants. New meaning to 'unsafe at any speed', nevermind the legendary cry “I’ve got blisters on my fingers”.
Is there any end to the list of goofy add-ons that continue to put stars in our eyes?
s(anctimonius)rp
the FXT 5M is very quick, feels great mechanically, has a low profile look, 4wd and solid reliability.BUT, it feels smaller inside than the FX35/45 (i have 3 young boys), interior looks/feels lower budget, and i just couldnt get past how ugly/awkward its exterior is, IMHO.
the FX35/45 is nicer inside with a little more room, has avant garde styling, awesome grip, great handling,awd option,and solid reliability.BUT its a heavier suv so the v6 has to work harder to get about 4300 lbs moving. this is why i chose an '03 FX45 (with lease $$$ only about $100 more a month than the FXT 5M).
the BMW X3 had not come out when i was looking but i drove an '04 BMW 530i 6M.it is nice in many ways but it has become less of a drivers car as the current technology seems to come between the car and the driver. also,i could not justify the extra $$$.
have fun comparing!!!
BTW, I haven't heard of any butt burns from heated leather seats yet...
That sounds nostalgic but if KISS were that important then old Henry wouldn't have moved beyond the Model A! Surely, the conveyor belt assembly line used to produce the "T" was not as simple as making them the old fashioned way. And those old acetylene headlights were far simpler than those newfangled electric ones with chemical batteries, cables and alternators! ;-)
tidester, host
Not surprising. My budget was delighted to apply the $10,000 saved to other purposes.
and i just couldnt get past how ugly/awkward its exterior is, IMHO. the FX35/45...has avant garde styling,
Is that what it's called? As they say, eye of the beholder. I think the Infiniti FX is downright ugly. If heavy-looking high-bodyside small-window proportions (a la Hummer) are the coming thing, count me out. Give me low fender heights and tall windows anyday. Unobstructed outward visibility counts for far more to me than debatable style.
The point was that "simple" is relative and I was just having fun! Hope you enjoyed it. :-)
tidester, host
Steve, Host
I could comfortably buy any car under $250K without taking a loan. I bought a $24K Forester XT because it meets my needs, and then some, and leaves the unspent dough for other, higher priorities.
Bob
No question about that. There have been zillions of bona fide advances in automotive design. Disk brakes. Radial tires. Independent suspensions. Even little things like delay wipers and rear defoggers. Heated steering wheels? Egad.
BTW, I've said the same about electric blankets, but have since come around.
Bob
I sometimes like to drive premium brand cars, just to see what they're up to. Usually a lot of the good stuff from BMW, et al, eventually trickles down into other more mainstream brands; not that a Subie is mainstream, but you get the idea.
As a matter of fact, now that the X-3 is now a part of this discussion, it gives you a legit excuse to do so. And... knowing you, your report back would be most entertaining.
Bob
And your point is?
Friends of the family could afford to buy a $1M dollar car for cash, should they chose. They don't drive Subaru's, they don't even drive 745s, they drive Rolls and high-end Merceders. So what?
Are you showing us how frugal you are? Or are you trying to compare the driving characteristics of these vehicles?
I drove the 325ix wagon extensively before buying the XT. Loved the inline 6. Didn't like the price tag.
-Frank P.
Bob
Frankly, I was a little surprised that feature didn't make it into the new-generation Legacy/Outback.
Bob
rsholland: once you've experienced a heated steering wheel on a cold morning, it's really a very enjoyable experience.
BTW, whatever happened to gloves? :-0
And then there are heated seats ...!
tidester, host
To be honest, I don't like driving with gloves, even driving gloves. I prefer the feel of my hands on the steering wheel, and I also prefer bare hands for operating various switches and controls.
Bob
tidester, host
Bob
Zman
DaveM
DaveM
A heated steering wheel I like, and have said so. As for memory seats, OnStar, satellite radio, MP3 players, auto climate control, etc.; to me, those are truly worthless.
Bob
I was talking about steering wheels that get up to 140°F due to solar heating.
dcm: I'm looking forward to the steering wheel refrigerators! Will BMW provide them before Infiniti?
tidester, host
If it's half as nice as the bun warmers in my wagon, I'm sure I'd like a heated steering wheel.
Steve, Host
A lot of higher-end cars are coming with stuff I wouldn't want if they paid me to take it. BMW's iDrive gizmo, for example. And after building some very nicely styled cars over the past two generations, their designers went completely bonkers on everything since, beginning with the latest 7.
If I ever reach the point where I reject otherwise-worthy cars because they lack heated steering wheels, I hope a true friend puts me out of my misery.
Heck I can answer that... all three are compact SUVs with comparable interior dimensions, off-road ability and performance.
-Frank P.
It really comes down to what you value most. If you can't live without the premium image that's attached to the other brands, then the XT is not for you.
Bob
I do not drive a vehicle to have my ego stroked. I drive a vehicle because I love the way it drives on an everyday basis. I also appreciate the engineering behind how the vehicle works mechanically.
I drive a vehicle because I love the way it drives on an everyday basis. I also appreciate the engineering behind how the vehicle works mechanically.
Me too! You sure you're not talking about the XT? ;-)
-Frank P.
P.S. The Viper doesn't exactly have a 62 cu ft cargo area now does it?
Im not saying the assembly is better. I'm saying that the parts themselves are better. Everything from the rotors, axles, sway bars, wiring harnesses, control modules, etc will be of better quality. When you work on a BMW you can easily see the methodical assembly/disassembly process and say...that's why they did that. On most other cars you say...now why would they do that? i.e., a VW I had had no radiator drain plug. You had to remove the thermostat and break the seal to properly change the coolant. AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! So unfortunatley, we'd have to agree to disagree on build quality.
Best New Sport Utility Vehicle: Subaru Forester 2.5 XT
http://www.ajac.ca/
-srp
IRT to the resale value, I think they public's love affair with the SUV is beginning to wane, hence the increasing popularity of cross-over vehicles (of which the Forester was one of the first). In a few years it's quite possible that being perceived as a gas-guzzling roll-over prone SUV will actually hurt a vehicles resale value.
-Frank P.
That's an interesting half-truth, but nothing more. Let's say after two years my top-of-the-line XT (price paid: $23,978) has a market value of only $16,785, having suffered 30% depreciation. Let's say the BMW X3 depreciates 'only' 20% during the same period. My loss from depreciation is $7,193. Yours is $8.000. I prefer my outcome.
the <BMW> parts themselves are better. Everything from the rotors, axles, sway bars, wiring harnesses, control modules, etc will be of better quality <than Subaru's>.
And unarguably far costlier to repair or replace. Dare we compare the cost to perform a valve job or bottom-end overhall or fuel-injector pump replacement on a BMW to a Subaru? Also, if the component quality of our low-class vehicles is sufficient to provide (say) 250,000-mile lifetimes (as Subarus often do), exactly what benefit does the alleged superiority of BMW's unarguably costlier component quality provide?
When you work on a BMW you can easily see the methodical assembly/disassembly process and say...that's why they did that.
And you seriously don't think any non-BMW owners ever have that same thought while working on theirs?
I'm glad you like your Beamer. I'd rather increase my charitable giving than indulge myself to that extent.
Cheaper vehicle always has cheaper absolute dollar amount with depreciation. Buying a $15K vehicle if it only retains 50% of value after 3 years who cares? It only lost $7,500. Small dollar amount high percentage. Not very favorable for leasing though.
That said, if I were forced to cut one out of the mix based on "true" performance driving features, the FX is the one that would have to go.
So, let's go back to the beginning. The XT (MT) clearly accelerates faster than the X3 (MT). The XT costs about $10,000 less than the X3. They get about the same gas mileage. The X3 weighs more; maybe then it is a safer vehicle. It has a 6-speed (which is supposed to be better than the 5-speed on the XT). Both of them are superior to the FX in this regard (duh). The X3 has more material amenities (esp. leather seats). The XT has dealers who are willing to work with you. The X3 does not.
Zman