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Hybrid Honda Accord



  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "I bought the Suburban June of 1998"


    Gagrice, dont forget to mention that at that period of time an oil barrel was only $10 vs. the $40-55 range today. The abundance of oil back then made conservation a non-issue,


    Oil markets are a bit less predictable than throwing dice. Just imagine if oil prices drop back to $10 in 2007. Everyone who bought a hybrid today to save on gas would end up looking like a jokester, while the SUV buyers would have the biggest grins on their faces.(especially with the great deals for SUVs today, compare to the full or premium to MSRP of hybrids)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "Just imagine if oil prices drop back to $10 in 2007. "

    Rather unlikely; China is using more and more fuel, a trend that is likely to increase.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Nothing is a given! Oil prices may increase! Oil prices may decrease!


    If it was a guarantee that oil prices would go up and not down, everyone would be billionaires investing in the oil futures markets.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    What do people who buy V8 luxury cars and very large SUVs tell manufacturers?


    The same exact thing the person that buys a V6 Accord when a 4 cylinder Accord or better yet a Civic will give them the same utility. If you want to base it on comfort, safety or utility the large SUV has it over any of the small cars.


    Those that attack the morals of people that want as much comfort and utility as they can afford. Should at least go with the most economical car that is available. Otherwise there is no difference between the person that buys a V6 Accord and the guy that buys the Tahoe. They bought what they liked without taking the waste of fossil fuel into account.


    I am eagerly awaiting a report on the mileage of the HAH cars that are out there now. This is just rhetoric to keep this thread close to the top of the list.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "This is just rhetoric to keep this thread close to the top of the list."


    Yes. And we'll all get an ice cream cone.
  • nemonemo Posts: 7
    Gas consumption is not the only impact - new Hondas burn cleaner than ever before. Cleaner does not always = more power or higher gas mileage, but once you've been stuck behind that old turbo diesel mecerdes (which may still get great mileage) you get the idea. A good questions is whether the new generations of turbo diesels are better than hybrids for the environment. I like the idea that the accord hybrid is just as safe as performs better than the current accord v6 while getting higher fuel economy - sounds like a win win.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,910
    If you feel that a Civic can give someone the same "utility" as an HAH, then I know you would agree that a car like an Accord or Camry can give someone the same utility as a Lexus, and it would be interesting to know why you bought a Lexus instead of a lesser car--just to kill time until the owners report. ;-)
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Nemo:


    new Hondas burn cleaner than ever before.


    ___The HAH is not nearly as clean as the I4 PZEV based Accord some may not yet have considered :-( In terms of g/mi. of most pollutants (non-GHG’s), the HAH is not any cleaner then many GM trucks and multiple other manufacturers ULEV-II rated SUV’s.


    Cleaner does not always = more power or higher gas mileage


    ___Cleaner emissions can have 0 impact on both performance and/or FE as is the case of most PZEV’s including the I4 based Accord.


    ___Good Luck


    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • yerth10yerth10 Posts: 428


    I guess you own a Honda Insight. Do you have

    any idea as to how many Insights are sold so

    far the World over.


    Seems Insight-2005 has been launched.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    it would be interesting to know why you bought a Lexus instead of a lesser car


    My wife bought it long before we were married. I would not have bought it. Well maybe the SC300/400. I haul too much stuff to own anything but a truck. I wish I had bought another Chevy truck when I got the Suburban. That was the last wife that made me compromise. My biggest complaint on the Lexus is the enormous cost of maintenance. Lexus is a rip-off BIG TIME in the service dept. I have bought new cars from all the major manufacturers and some not so major, over the last 40 years. Domestics by far are more reliable & less expensive to maintain.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Yerth10:


    ___Yes, I do. It is the dirtiest car in my fleet in terms of SMOG emissions (well it actually ties my 03 Ranger XLT) but by far the best in terms of GHG production and actual fuel saved per miles driven.


    ___Good Luck


    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 561
    Do they have even the slightest interest in hybrid vehicles?


    Looks like they just relish putting down other people's interests.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "The transmission in the HAH is different from those in other Accords, e.g. it is 2.4 inches shorter. "


    Thanks for the response.


    So what does this mean? Does this imply the HAH has a different transmission from the Accord because of the 2.4 inches. Or do they have the same transmission designs? (except for the 2.4 inches in order to probably the accomodate the hybrid system). The latter sounds the most likely scenario since it does not make economic sense to have one transmission design for Accord and another for HAH.



    In otherwords if both have the same transmission(except for the 2.45 inches)---the HAH will be exposed to the same transmission problems as the Accord.


    Please correct me if my conclusion is wrong? As you can tell by now I am not an engineer! But I am in the financial area and it really does not make economic sense for both to have diffent transimission designs.
  • grantgrant Posts: 3
    My family owns two Toyota Prius vehicles...there are not enough pages in a book to describe how difficult they were to obtain...especially without the current $6000 average premium added to the sticker price in the NYC area. With the exception of the Toyota service (we gave up our Infinity and Lexus we feel we are cattle in a slaughter loaner cars etc)...we truly love these vehicles.


    Everyone is focusing on the "Hybrid Extra Price Tag" in the $4000 added to the Honda Accord Hybrid and how it will take years to break even at $2 per gallon..given the premium one paid for the hybrid....


    The reality is that when you pay $22,000 as we did for the Toyota Prius and receive "actual" mileage of 42mpg (vs. sticker mileage of 50 to 60mpg)..there is really no premium spent...


    The Accord will have actual mileage in the mid 20's (according to major car magazines who have reviewed it already)..vs sticker of 32-34mpg. You are also paying $30,000 to $32,000. You are still in the slightly dated body of the Accord, paying the $4000 hybrid premium and receiving mileage in the mid 20's....and losing your moonroof to boot! Is the appeal...the most fuel efficient V6 bragging rights or the Greening of America? I also believe it is not a true gas to electric hybrid as is the Prius. I am getting 50MPG when I am stuck in city traffic (in my Camry size interior)...and the Civic/Accord's engine works in the gas is always in mileage is better on the highway...


    Perhaps that is the reason why Prius owners are on waiting lists till 2006? They are far from perfect cannot help smiling when it costs me $18 to fill up the tank every two weeks! The $360 a month car payment is worth it's weight in gold! Being frugal is in....and maybe that's why they are pictured in country clubs...and people are trading in their expensive vehicles?


    I just thought that when people thought of a hybrid vehicle...they thought of gas mileage that you would read about in a future that may not be in our 40MPG to 60mpg? How easy it is to forget that gas has doubled in our recent past? Remember when it was around $1.00?
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    35MPG is good for the performance available. The problem is that it remains to be seen if even 35MPG is attainable in normal driving. EPA estimates on hybrids have been overly optimistic.

    It's possible to get 30+ MPG on a highway trip in an EXV6 already, so if the hybrid gets under 35, the difference will be negligible.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "Being frugal is in....and maybe that's why they are pictured in country clubs...and people are trading in their expensive vehicles? "


    Ingenious Toyota Marketing in using celebreties to drive Priuses. There are so many gullible and insecure people who want to drive what celebrities drive, especially when it costs in the low 20k range. How many Prius drivers are driving because of environmental considerations and how many are driving because they feel they look like Leanardo DiCaprio behind a steering wheel?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,910
    You are jumping to some big conclusions here. No one said the HAH uses a "different transmission" than the regular Accord. What was said is, they are different in that the HAH's is 2.4 inches shorter than the regular Accord's. How that translates into internal differences is anyone's guess--maybe someone else has seen some details on that point. I don't design automatic trannies for a living either, so I don't know if it's possible to cut 2.4 inches off the Accord's transmission without any internal changes. As for different designs, no, that does not make economic sense, but we don't know if Honda made some internal changes since the recalled units were made (I assume they did, but just what I don't know) or made some tweaks just for the HAH (shorter, more hp to deal with etc.). I don't think we know enough to jump to the conclusion that the HAH uses exactly the same transmission (except for the casing) as the regular Accord.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,910
    It has been asserted by some people on the Town Hall hybrids discussions (some of the same people in this discussion actually) that the HCH has achieved very close to its EPA fuel economy rating in real-world driving, based on reports from owners on etc. Since the HAH uses a similar hybrid powerplant design to that of the HCH, but with the extra advantage on the highway of VCM, I think it's overly pessimistic to assume that the HAH will not return close to its EPA ratings in real-world use. A couple of short tests by lead-footed car mag testers isn't the same as real-world experience for the general public.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    The reality is that when you pay $22,000 as we did for the Toyota Prius and receive "actual" mileage of 42mpg


    That is a fair price to pay for a 2004 Prius. You should be able to justify that with no problem. Even at 42 mpg you are in a very good emissions category. The HAH will not be as clean as the Prius. Plus it will be lucky to get a combined 30 mpg.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Wco81:


    Do they have even the slightest interest in hybrid vehicles?


    ___I personally have misgivings about purchasing Hybrid’s at MSRP or MSRP + and I own one. Hybrid’s using HOV lanes in those states that have them (we do not here in Illinois so it really doesn’t matter), giving away Tax breaks to purchase hybrids when the average purchaser makes ~ $100,000 +/year while the cars themselves are running at MSRP and MSRP + as stated above, the hybrid has higher emissions then the std. ICE automobile of the same model, and especially those that drive them into the ground because they don’t really want to save as much fuel as the hybrid is capable of or use the tools provided to improve their FE skills in anything else they drive afterwards …


    ___I am not at all against the concept of receiving higher FE with decent performance in the least.


    ___Good Luck


    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    I think it's overly pessimistic to assume that the HAH will not return close to its EPA ratings in real-world use.


    Are the EPA ratings out yet for the HAH? I have not found them, if you can post the link.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:



    ___The AH’s final EPA estimates are 29 City/37 Highway. Honda is just one site that now lists the final estimates but I have seen it elsewhere around the net as well …


    ___Good Luck


    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,178
    Do they have even the slightest interest in hybrid vehicles?


    I cannot speak for anyone else. I was very interested when I first test drove the Prius in 2000. I went back for a second test drive with my wife and she hated the looks and that ended it, as it was to replace her 1990 Camry. The biggest selling point was the 8 year 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. They soon dumped that which took a lot of it's appeal for me. Then I researched here on Edmund's and found out about the Insight and then the HCH. My only complaint with the Prius and HCH has been the gouging by dealers. I think you can get a good deal on an Insight. That to me is the ultimate commuter car on the market. If I commuted to work I would buy one. I am not sure the percentage of Solo drivers on the highways during rush hours. It would make a difference if they all were driving an Insight or even a Prius or HCH. Now for the HAH. It is a high tech, high performance toy with NO environmental benefits. It is not as clean as the 4 cylinder Accords and the only mileage evidence to date is a LOUSY 25 mpg. If you want the latest in hybrid cars, go for it. Don't act like you are doing something to save our fossil fuel.
  • vietviet Posts: 847


    * 95 Accord EX I4 145 HP at 200K miles runs at 25 - 30+ MPG.


    * V6 EX 2002 Sedan and V6 EX 2003 Coupe 240 HP run at 25 - 30+ MPG.


    * Will report to you on the HAH's MPG in a couple of weeks.
  • "Looks like they just relish putting down other people's interests."


    This is an astute observation. Read ENVY by Schoek, THE PSYCHOLOGY OF JEALOUSY AND ENVY by Salovey, ENVY by Boris, and CINDERELLA AND HER SISTERS: THE ENVIED AND THE ENVYING by Ann and Barry Ulanov.


    The anti-HAH posters here are echoed in all of these forums. In each forum you'll find people attacking the vehicle or the technology featured in that forum.


    Those who doubt the HAH would say that they're merely showing both sides of the story, or are being logical and rational and utilitarian. But if you carefully read this forum, or any other forum, you'll see that the persistence and the dedication of the doubters is way out of proportion to the topic.


    As the Ulanovs say, envy is a signpost of the good. A marker, if you will. Therefore, the more HAH doubters that there are, the more prized and worthwhile the car must truly be!
  • vietviet Posts: 847
    Honda's engineering philosophy is keeping its motor vehicles simple (KISS = Keep it simple stupids). In order to keep its products simple Honda indeed has mastered its sophisticated motor engineering technology and has built high performance automobiles. One of the features I am most fond of is the HAH can run by its gas engine only if the battery components is inoperational. In software design/ engineering that feature is called modular independence. It is so cool, so intelligent. On the contrary to the HAH , the Prius runs on its battery at very low speed in city. Some people said the Prius runs like an (electric) toy in the city. I am not impressed with the Prius' shape.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Bottom line is I've achived 30 MPG over the last 2 yrs in my vehicles and driven 28,000 miles. Don't have time to WASTE time on the math but it's a lot better than the suburb gas waster. Oh.. did I mention that I drive two people to work every day?
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I seriously doubt people are buying the Prius because Larry David drives one. That is SO OLD NEWS, it's not funny. Perhaps people are smarter than you think.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    Thanks for that post. I could NOT have said it better. As Spock would say, "that is logical". Enjoy your hybrids. I'm not envious, just jealous as I don't have one YET. :)
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    The Prius shape, though odd, is better than the Accord. It has MUCH more usable space, more leg room, a hatchback. As far as safety is concerned, you can get it with Vehicle Skid Control. Why Honda omitted this I have no idea. You can get skid control in their CRV but not in the Accord. Silly??
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