Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
"As for the new M, I still think its interior looks weak based on pictures. Horrible layout and I doubt its material quality is up to top standards."
First you criticize a poster for commenting on a car without driving it first, then you go on to comment on the Infiniti's interior layout and material quality, based on pictures???? Doesn't your logic of driving the car before forming an opinion hold for you?????
It was the current 225hp, but it had the only manual tranny in the comparo.
0-60 times
RL 6.7
Audi 7.3
BMW 6.8 (manual)
Cadillac 6.8
M35 6.3
Jaguar 7.8
Apparently, this was the only negative comment about the M:
"....some editors had issues with the layout of the secondary controls for the climate and audio systems on the center stack, particulary the ones atop the dash."
Some other comments on the M:
".... superb weight balance and pinpoint steering make this sport sedan a willing partner on any road you care to choose. No wonder the M35 smoked the competition in acceleration test and tied for first with the sport package equipped 530i in braking and the figure eight test."
I can't imagine them coming out with a new $47K car, and not bumping up the numbers... I'd say, expect 250 hp ++
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
"The next phenomenon from Lexus is coming. The entirely new GS 300 comes packed with the force of 245-hp in a 3.0-liter V6 engine. And a ferocious 300-hp, 4.3-liter V8 lives under the hood of the GS 430.
The style is groundbreaking — sleek sculpted lines, slingshot windows and a longer wheelbase take the GS into uncharted design territory. An innovative push button starts the ignition. And to complement the powerful engines, the GS sports a six-speed sequential-shift automatic transmission.
The phenomenon begins March 2005."
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Guess what - now that the Infiniti M pricing is out (at up to $15K CAD LESS than the RL), the 2 people who actually bought RL's in Canada this year at the USD$48K sticker price plus the Acura Canada "Let's See If We Get a Sucker" extra premium of $11+K over current F/X (CAD$71,500) have had their drivers licenses revoked for being 'Sub-Normal' (IQ under 90).
I've tested the RL, and I've sat in the M (in dealers in Canada by late Feb, for test drives). The M35AWD - also a 6 - has the best engine in its class, more/better 'gadgets' and feels far less claustrophobic. I can't imagine any more Subnormals willing to pay the "Canadian extortion premium" over the US pricing once the M is available for order - now.
Of course, if you have to spend 72K CAD, you can consider the Lexus GS (CAD$66K) - something tells me lexus still has better fit and finish (and residual values) than boring Acura. (Ghosn has pulled the Infiniti brand way ahead of Honda/Acura on styling alone). If they sell more than 10 RLs in Canada at their dumb price grab, I'd be surprised.
I must say I'm impressed by the M35/45 combo, now all I have to do is see one on the street to truly gauge the styling.
M
M
M
The 5 series sells worse than hoped\expected. BMW puts a sticker on the dash to explain how to access the climate functions as in 7 series. Audi chips away a bit at BMW and Mercedes buyers who refuse to buy Japanese, but the A6 never amounts to more than a midpack player. The E class continues to win the sales charts because its a Mercedes.
I think almost every M35 will be priced at $47K or above.. so, it won't exactly be a screaming bargain.. and, even with the V8, you are talking about a $55K car... How big is that market?
Other than being "new", I don't see big things for it... I sort of remember the last M selling for $10K off MSRP.. I see big rebates and incentives coming for this one also...
Most people aren't like us geeks here on Edmunds.. they don't read the car magazine comparisons.. The mid-size luxury market is a tough nut to crack.. There is the 5-series, the E-class... and the also-rans..
The new entrants do okay for the first year or two, when they come out with something new... but, they tail off badly after that.. What is going to make this car any different?
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
M
Do us all a favor and read something about the new M before saying its "same old". Then look at G35 sales and G20 sales. Its about the same with the new M vs. old in terms of changes that Infiniti has made.
1) The G35 had nothing to do with the G20, other than the letter "G". Not the same car in size, purpose, FWD vs. RWD, etc, etc... The G35 was basically an all new car, on an all new platform.. The G20 was a rebadged Nissan Sentra. The G20 was the entry level Infiniti, while the G35 was slotted in above the I35. Plus.. not sure what any of that has to do with the mid-sized luxury market, even if you could link those two models together..
2) Other than AWD, the M35/45 isn't offering anything the admittedly bland old model didn't have. New styling, but about the same power and luxury appointments.. But, that isn't even my point.. The point is... At those price points, mid-size luxury buyers don't even have Infiniti on their radar... I'm sure they'll get a little buzz and start off fine, but give it a couple of years and sales will be right back down in Lexus GS territory.. Which, is where most of Infiniti's "M" buyers will come from..
3) For more Infiniti success stories, perhaps we could discuss the Q45? Or the J30 (another mid-size debacle).
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Nope, as you seem to think the new M is the old car with a body lift. "The G35 was basically an all new car, on an all new platform." So is the M. The old car sat on the Q45s platform. The new M rides on a specially developed stretched and tweaked G35 FM platform. Rigidity is up in huge amounts over the G35, and by about 50,000% over the old M45. The old M never offered a V6, and it didnt have AWD. The transmission has been significantly revised, as evidenced by fastest in class acceleration. It handily whoops the 300hp Acura RL, and offers every luxury feature that the competition has, including a few that they dont. Who else has LDW and rear wheel steering?
"For more Infiniti success stories, perhaps we could discuss the Q45? Or the J30 (another mid-size debacle)."
Hey the J30, a car from 1992 or so. That sure is relevant to 2005 Infiniti, isnt it? For Infiniti success stories with Carlos Ghosn at the helm, how about taking a look at the G35 and FX. Infiniti is here to stay, and as of right now they are stomping on Acura and gunning for BMW.
M
Acura RL - Test drove it when it first came out,had a nice feel to it and lots of bells and whistles, everything was fine until I asked the price Cad $ 72,000.00, laughed at Sales Guy and told him to call me when they drop price by at least $10,000.00.
Lexus GS 300 - Saw it at Auto Show, even though car is supposed to be at dealers in late February, Lexus saw fit to display this car at the show on a rotating round stage with a DO NOT Touch sign on it. Why even bother showing it if one could not properly check it out. From what I was able to see, not worth the CAD $ 68,000.00 that they are asking, perhaps if they would have seen fit to let us look and sit in it I may have a different opinion. Tough luck Lexus, I need to get a car now.
Audi A6 - Test drove and obtained all pricing, really like this car however......
Base price is CAD $59,500.00, added in exact options that are in the M35 as follows.
Premium PKG - $4300.00
(Sunroof, Bi-Xenon adaptive headlights,Bose,Wood)
Convenience PKG - $ 1450.00
(Driver info,seat memory,homelink,dimming mirror)
Premium Leather $ 1500.00
Rear parktronic $500.00
Voice Recongnition $500.00
Advance Key $1100.00
Tire Pressure monitor $350.00
18" mags/4 season tires $1400.00
and now we are up to CAD $ 70,600.00
80,000 KMS warranty instead of M35 100,000KMS
Must state that AUDI includes ALL service/parts for duration of warranty whereas Infiniti does not.
BMW 5 Series - Very nice car, spoke with a sales guy at the auto show, told him what I wanted ( actually what I would settle for given my budget)
told me he would call me Monday morning, am still waiting for the call.
M35 - has everything and more than I was looking for plus very good lease rates given very high residuals as this is a 2006 model.
I could enter this debate over the pros and cons of German/Japanese but the bottom line is that I change my car every 3 years, I have loved driving my G35, Infiniti has been very good to me, reliability has been excellent an no other manufacturer can offer what Infiniti is offering in their new M35 for the same or even close numbers.
Time will only tell if I made the right decision. Back in '91 I leased a first generation Q45 for 3 years, landed up keeping it for a 4th year because I liked it so much. I think Infiniti got it right with the G35 and everything else that is following it.
Remember your early participation in the G boards a few years ago.
Keep us posted as your "M" adventure continues.
As lexusguy said, the 2006 M is a totally different car from the 2004 M. About the only thing it carries over is the V8, and a tweaked one at that.
By your reasoning, no non-established car can ever be successful in this segment. If you offer a compelling car at a good price, people will start noticing little by little. You build a reputation over time.
As far as sales going down near the end of a model run, that is true with almost every car. However, when the G35 Sedan first came out, it sold about 3000 per month. Now, they're selling about 4200 per month.
It's very interesting that the people most "concerned" about M sales seem to be the BMW crowd.
I'd feel sorry for the Acura RL BUT the Canadian marketing people must have been smoking something the day they priced the new RL! This could be the Edsel for Canadian Acura delaers. Sell one or two and then stop selling them.
I too own an early production G35(04/02 build date) and it's been bullet proof.
Anyway, enough said about the RL. The M in either the 6 or 8 will be tough to beat.
Have a great day Everyone;
Babs
2) My reasoning isn't that there will never be a successful competitor in this segment... just that it is probably the toughest segment to crack..
3) Okay, okay... I know the "M" is an entirely new car.. I got that.. I read.. really.
4) The G35 is a big, big hit in the $30K-$38K range..... I don't disagree.. name another "succesful" car from Infiniti.. (Please don't say I35).
5) Infiniti has a recognition problem... Many people have never heard of it... It might not seem that way on Edmunds, but to the average car buyer, they are a non-entity... I heard a big secret the other day.. People that spend $50K on a car... they care about the brand... even the biggest driving enthusiasts..
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
2) Agreed. It is a tough segment to crack. No one is saying that the M will be sales leader. I'm thinking, if the RL with one $50k variant can sell 2000 per month, the M with 3 variants ranging from $40k to $55k can sell 2000 per month. Acura never had success in this segment either. There is more competition now, especially from the GS, but I think that the M is a compelling enough car to be successful.
3) .
4) The FX: It sells about 2800 per month, not bad for a non-conventional SUV. Again, "successful" does not mean breaking sales records or anything. The QX: It sells about 2000 per month. Not bad for a $50k vehicle. The G35 Coupe: It is the best selling luxury coupe in the U.S.
5) Infiniti does have a recognition problem. But it's much better than say, 3 years ago. I think the M is good enough for people to take a look.
I see a lot of FX45s, too.. But, then again.. how can you miss them?
I'll have to check, but I'm guessing they are far, far behind the sales of the RX..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
"I see a lot of FX45s, too.. But, then again.. how can you miss them? "
I think thats exactly what Infiniti was going for. You cant miss a Cayenne on the road, and you cant miss an FX.
I don't think the RL will do much beyond this year and next... I think it will have the same problem that I propose for the "M".. Not enough status for 50 large...
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
But, I think it was more to capture the import buyer that had no choice previously.. That is a big enough market right there, without trying to take away the traditional domestic truck buyer..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
In that respect, the price and reliability issues change dramatically based on lease/buy. In this market, there are MANY leasing customers trying to make that jump from the entry luxury up to the mainstream lux market.
For example, BMW is overpriced IMO, compared to other similarly optioned vehicles in the segment- with relation to MSRP. However.....if you were to lease, BMW jumps out as one of the most affordable- if not THE most affordable- player in this market. Infiniti rarely offers leasing incentives, and neither does Acura. Audi has been known to introduce the occasional incentive, but they keep their residuals low for the most part. Right now, leasing an RL or A6 is going to run you $700+. Information I've received from my long time Infiniti dealer indicate we should expect similar numbers for a 49k M.
Now.....talk purchase and you've got a different story. Audi and BMW are reliability issues (at least compared to the Japanese), BMW is higher priced than all but Mercedes. Acura, Infiniti, and Audi are all about the same price point for similar cars- you can do 4.2 Audi or M45 Infiniti, but the power plant is then much different from the RL. I don't know enough about the new GS, but I think we can safely assume quality to be excellent. No idea on driving characteristics, as I've never driven the outgoing model.
Simply put, when I buy I will buy Japanese. When I lease, I'll lease the best car for the best value. In my current situation, it's a 530. Over $150 difference per month than Acura or A6.
When G35 came out, people were saying, no matter how good it was, it'd have terrible residuals, because that was what all Infinitis had. I think Kelly Blue now has G35 as having top residuals in its class.
Also, many more leasers in the $400-$600 range, than in the $700-$800 range.. Mostly buyers when you get up that high...
We'll see, I guess..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
By contrast the G35 is a runaway success. Infiniti had been around years before the G35 hit the streets and it's sales figures do not point to a recognition problem. Will the new M35/45 be able to duplicate the G35?, I guess it remains to be seen. However if it offers styling as it appears to, performance(ditto) and value, who knows. If it fails, it definitely would not be because of recognition. The Jaguar S is one of the most recognized vehicles, classic retro looks and all and it sales numbers suck. What gives?.
It aint recognition folks.
Further to my post earlier this morning, the BMW sales guy finally called me back ( Maybe he reads
Edmunds, lol). Interestingly enough he quoted me a price on a 530 that is still slightly higher than the M35 however the 530 did not have half of the equipment that the M35 has including all wheel drive.
Are you sure that you are comparing comparably equipped cars?
by that reasoning, the same goes for a comparably equipped M35.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'06 Infiniti M
How can Infiniti just plunge into this market? A lot of people who are shopping for this type of car already have their list narrowed a bit, and newcomers aren't very well recieved. Look at the new RL. In defense, it looks solid enough, but the RL and GS have not been well-recieved. As I will repeat later, there are certain companies that will just do better. Don't ask how, they just do.
Acura RL
The RL is kind of sad, just because Honda is so stubborn. No V-8 at all. The v-6 has nice horsepower, but its torque is less-than-great. The styling is blah, another Acura trademark, and it has no option for RWD. I'm all for AWD, but, in my experience, there's something about RWD that is just as desirable. Add to that the fact that Acura doesn't advertise a lot, and that all of their other cars are FWD, they can't compete.
Lexus GS
A lot of people are saying that this will be a no-show, and I really can't agree. I know that when I heard that Caddy was redesigning the STS I thought that it would be another stodgy Seville. Wrong again, Chris. If Toyota provides the degree of engineering and tuning that it did with the Scion tC to the GS, (albeit on a higher level) it will be able to compete. Also, lots of people like hybrids, but don't want a hybrid that gets bad gas mileage (cough Accord cough), is alightly odd (Prius), seats two (insight), or is a Ford (Escape). They want their hybrid with a degree of finesse, and Lexus aims to give them that with the GS. I hope it works. Still, don't be expecting a 545 killer.
E-Class
I like this car, and I really don't know why. It's more expensive than the rest, and until recently, you were only getting 221 horses for 50k. Ouch. It's improving now that they will discontinue the E320 and replace it with the E350. But hey! It's a Benz, and you can bet that the three point star will net bunches of people.
5 Series
Other than its odd styling and iDrive, the bimmer is probably one of the better ideas. At least in 545 or 530. The 525 does seem a little overpriced, though.
Caddy STS
As much as everyone loves this car, I don't.
(Hides under desk.)
The thing that annoys me is the styling. I think it's better than the CTS, which one might get cut upon touching, but it looks too grandfathery. Also, it isn't German. Yes, I discriminate when it comes to cars. Sure, it might perform great, but it's still a GM. So much for my new years resolution of being more open-minded.
Audi A6
I'm one of the few who thinks that the A6's grilleowrk is nice. It seems to be a competant competitor now, but when it comes to cachet, you can't beat Benz. Also, the BMW is more sporty in demeanor.
Well, I think I've vented my steam. I'm out.
http://www.mississauga.com/mi/insidenews/story/2515845p-2914914c.- html
I'm quite intrigued by the active rear suspension.
BTW, anybody hear anything about performance loss in the M35x with the extra weight compared to the base 35? How does the G35x compare to the G35 on dry pavement? Thanks.
I (so far) always buy cars. Leasing only makes sense if: 1) you can write off car expenses, 2) there's a terrific subsidy built in by the manufacturer (this happens, and needs to be considered, if available), or 3) you can't really afford the car and only want to rent it.
That said, I continue to buy and hold. I value long-term reliability -- the vehicle should run well beyond 100K miles with little or no attention from the dealer (I do all my own oil/filter/brake stuff). I took a couple of forays into the American vehicle zone, but expect to go back to Asian at my next change.
Live and learn. . .or not.
Infiniti does have a bit of a recognition problem and they have also had a product line up that has been confusing/disorganized.
However, IMO this is changing. The success of the G35 is no accident. The car has great acceleration, brakes and handling (great road feel which the Japanese have struggled to achieve). The car also has good interior and trunk space. If the new M is as good on the road as it looks on paper/early road tests, it should do fine.
The reason the Lexus GS (and IMO the RL to a lesser extent) are marginal entries in the sports/performance area is they do not have the acceleration, braking or interior space to really trump other cars in their class. The RL does have nice handling and some other luxury features, but it and the GS have too many compromises. The new GS could be different but we will see -- it looks like you have to buy the GS400 to really get a competitive performance car from Lexus.
Besides the ugly rear, the BMW 5 front headlight treatment also yields what one of my friends call 'owl eyes' or the look of a Ninja battle mask. The 5 being weird front and rear takes alot away from a previously class leading car.
I think the RL will do ok, but won't make much of a dent in the class. Compared to the M and 5, it's styling is at least integrated and clean and it's features outstanding. I feel it will be heavily discounted before the year's out to keep the installed base trading up.
In talking to my sister, who has been an Acura owner for years, she said "I already know that I have a much better car than my friends Mercedes and BMW's. I just love picking them up for lunch when their cars are in the shop for a week."
IMHO, in the end, the E3XX and BMW5 have left a 10K+ wide hole in the market between the high 30's and low 50's and it's getting wider. That's why the Asian car manufacturers are there.
You have to be crazy to pay 50K and up for a rather mundane, troublesome taxi cab platform from Germany or something as ugly as a BMW.
The front end is the car's strong suit. The rear end, however, is kinda odd.
People thought that G sales would die down after a couple years and the "hot rod" crowd had their fill. Well, what do you know, sales in 2004 were much stronger than in 2003. Frankly, I'm surprised by this too.
One thing that impresses me about the M is that excepting the STS, it is the largest and roomiest car in this class. Yet it is also one of the sportiest as well, right behind the 5. Having both size/room and sport is a very hard thing to do, and it's something that even BMW hasn't able to do either. Other than the 7, Bimmers are almost always the smallest/least spacious cars in their segment.