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Comments
There is a difference between wants and needs.
I don't think Honda was targeting the people you said they were, because those people are mostly the people I described.
I think they were targeting people who want a more carlike truck to be a family hauler, which is fine, but all I was saying before you posted was that the actual trucks that are already out there do a decent job of that, especially the Ford and Toyota.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And even though you can get into a Tacoma for $18K, It wouldn't be a V6 or AWD. In my 30153 zip code carsdirect has a base crew cab 4WD pegged at OVER $24K.
Since the folks at C&D are so much into 0-60s and carlike rides, I would love to see what they came up with if the compared a Ridgeline to whatever 4-door 4WD versions of the F-150 and Tundra cost around $30K.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They have a $1000 "marketing support" to help move them. Probably will make that low bar.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
So does every other truck on the market. Why should Honda be any different?
The 50K units mark is a low number for total truck sales, but when you break things down at bit, it is easy to understand. (They made this target, BTW.)
Ford, sells about 35-45K units of the Sport Trac each year. So Honda's goal is slightly higher than the volume Ford is doing in the personal truck market.
I don't have especially solid numbers for Toyota, but back in October they sold about 14,500 Tacomas. Of that, only 6,000 were 4WD models. That number includes standard, extended, and crew cabs. In the same month, Honda sold about 5,000 Ridgelines... all of which are crew cabs with AWD.
So, IMO, Honda's target of 50K units is about right. The only reason why we see much higher numbers for vehicles like the Tacoma and Frontier are because something like 60% of them are 2WD vehicles. And, don't get me wrong, I think they are correct in offering namby-pamby trucks like the Prerunner. Honda is shooting themselves in the foot with such a limited set of options. But the Ridgeline is what it is. And it's doing well for what it is.
Don't be so narrowminded in thinking that your needs and perceptions are everyone's needs and perceptions.
If there isn't a large enought market for the Ridgeline it'll fail. It won't be the first time Honda has missed their mark. Remember the Passport, older Civic SI's, the first Odyssey?
Another point that we're all missing is that gas prices have seriously hurt all catagories of the truck market. The Ridgeline was introduced just before it hit. More people were trying to unload the ones they had than were buying new ones.
-juice
Bob
But they sell a lot of the small 4-cylinder, steel-wheel models too.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-juice
Check the discounts on the big 3 trucks.
But since October is generally a normal month (not like January and July, which are big fleet months), I figure it serves well enough as a rough sketch.
And, once again, this is not a dig at Toyota. I think they have the upper hand in being able to offer an extended cab and standard cab in addition to a crew cab. They have the advantage in building their truck BOF to save on costs. Honda's approach gives them one heck of a stiff chassis and terrific ride, but it costs them in terms of production flexibility.
But when you look at how well others are doing targeting the same narrow market Honda is after... the 50K goal is pretty good.
The last thing offered by a Honda exec was this (paraphrased). "We're going to built a V10. Once we do that, we're going to see if a V8 is worth doing."
One of the mainstream mags (R&T, I think) published some rumors about their already being plans for both the V10 and V8. Both to be found in hi-po Acuras. They had some pretty drawing to go with the rumors. They were based heavily on the Sports4 Concept shown this past year. But neither of them was any more than a photochopper's pipe dream.
"state of the art" SH-AWD is the perfect 4 season car. I just wished it had a bit more power and a 6 speed manual as a option. If Acura would deliver just a little more then they would have the perfect car at any price. I do think Acura does need a "fullsize truck" that looks more like a Titan, Silverado, F-150, but with all the technology and luxury that Acura customers would expect. I think that would be a winner for Honda. Do any of you agree on the (Truck) idea ?
Rocky
What are the rumors and/or plans for new models ?
Rocky
Hope this helps.
BTW- that RDX is is going to be a HOTT vehicle. Nothing else like it on the market.
Thanks for the insight.
Rocky
The Ridgeline, Odyssey, Pilot, CR-V, and MDX are very nice vehicles that offer people a quality, flexible vehicle. The Ridgeline may have an open bed at the back similar to that of a pickup but Honda does NOT make a real truck.
Manufacturers call minivans, light utility vehicles, small SUV's, etc. trucks to avoid the more strict regulations of sedans that trucks do not have to meet.
Rocky
Trucks don't need 18-wheels, only real trucks do.
And who cares if some people don't consider Ridgeline a truck... it is them who have issues and keep whining about it, while the Ridgeline goes about doing the duties that serves most pickup buyers' needs. Ask my colleague who just learnt about Ridgeline from me (last week), and now considering to replace his "crappy" Dodge Dakota that he bought couple of years ago.
I think the 07' GM trucks are better styled and just as refined but the Ridgeline will still have it's advantages. The RDX will have every advantage over every mid-size SUV made and that includes the Yuppie BMW.
Rocky
The MDX is scheduled for a remodel at the end of the year (it's actually a year overdue).
The RSX is widely rumored to be a lame duck. This will be its last year and no car will replace it.
I'm not so sure the next supercar will stir up the Italians and Germans quite so much. Most of the rumors coming out of the mill have indicated that this will be a front-engine AWD coupe. Think AWD Viper, Vette, or Aston Martin. Not a mid-engine design like so many of the European exotics.
Also, the market for exotics has gotten a little crowded. We've got Bugatti, Mosler, Lexus, and others. Even Maserati and Aston Martin are sending cars to us again. It seems to me we've had a revival of sorts in the exotic department. I think it will be more difficult for Acura to stand out than it was back in 1990.
Acura is supposed to be a performance luxury brand. A truck doesn't really fit into the picture. If they were interested in branching out into luxury utility vehicles or cruisers, I'd think we would already have an Acura version of the Odyssey.
It's not that luxury utility is a bad thing to get into. (Look at how well vehicles like the Navigator and Town & Country have done.) It's just that Acura has bigger fish to fry.
I think the next NSX will meet customers expectations. However I do find it weird that they are going to a front engine car. :surprise:
Rocky
Rocky
(is that a French made Lexus ?) :P
being made.
Rocky
Why join the fight for a slice of a pie that keeps getting smaller? Look at the sales pace of the new Explorer.
-juice
Rocky
Invest billions only to sell fewer units!
:P
-juice
Type-R for $50K
Rocky
Anyway, I don't think a truck is the way to go for Acura, just yet. Even if it's another hybrid chassis truck like the Ridgeline. They have other projects which need to be completed first.
-juice
Hope is fading though - I am sure SOMEONE SOMEWHERE would have leaked some rumor or a spy pic by now if there were a new RSX in the works. What about a new Integra in Japan? Surely they are not just dropping the whole line?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I want a 2700-pound compact coupe/3-door with reflexes of steel! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Besides, the demand for more power, safety, features and refinement come at a cost that you mention... curb weight.
Acura needs a sporty coupe, but I think it needs to be something north of the $30K range. I have high hopes for the Sports4 concept we saw months ago. Perhaps they'll do a Sports2+2.
Rocky
Frankly I see crossovers eating more into sedan, wagon and mid-size SUV sales; those currently being used as family vehicles. Those who need/want full-size trucks (pickups & SUVs) will always be there.
Bob
Can't tow big boats or horse trailers with crossovers.
I think that's simply because no one has built a large enough crossover. Are any of them larger than mid-size?
I mean, the mid-size Touareg tows something like 7,000+ lbs. That's actually more than most mid-size pickup trucks. So, if somebody built a large crossover that is beefy enough, I don't see why it couldn't tow as much as a large BOF design.
By Peter Lyon Email
Date posted: 03-09-2006
Honda's mighty little Fit is already big news in Japan and Europe. Arguably the most practical super-mini on sale in both markets, the Fit will finally land in U.S. showrooms in April.
So why did Honda wait until now to introduce its four-door hatchback into the U.S.? Ask the PR types and they'll tell you that the company wasn't sure this small people mover would catch on. Or they might say that it didn't have the size or space for the local market. Well, things have changed over the last couple of years in the U.S. since the Fit took on Europe (and won). Gasoline is more expensive, and with the high-profile hybrids making waves, the mood is changing stateside. People are starting to care more about emissions and mileage. And the success of the chunky Scion xB has proved that compact, well-packaged crossover types have a place in the U.S. market.
Enter the Fit with its sharp looks, great packaging and class-topping performance and handling.
Employing a simple, but uniquely Honda-like, grille and bulbous headlight design inspired by the S2000, the Fit offers best-in-class interior space, on-road performance more like a sports sedan than a minivan and above all, mileage topping 33 mpg (city mode).
Dropped onto a newly developed "global small platform," the technical highlight of this "big" small car is its centrally located fuel tank. Positioned right under the front seats and nestled between the reinforced side members, the 10.8-gallon tank configuration gave designers the chance to pen a flat floor, thus opening up substantial legroom and headroom in addition to a sizable luggage area. Although it's only 157.4 inches long, 66.2 inches wide, 60.0 inches tall and sits on a 96.5-inch wheelbase, the Fit feels as spacious as a minivan one size larger.
The Fit doesn't just seat four adults in comfort; it actually offers minivan-like cabin height and 41.9 cubic feet of cargo space with the seats down. And its numerous seating configurations give you the ability to carry three adults and a 7-foot surfboard — at the same time. It might be packaged like a mini-minivan, but it handles corners like a sports sedan.
The Fit is powered by the latest in Honda's new generation of compact, lightweight i-series engines. The 1.5-liter four-cylinder VTEC produces 109 horsepower at 5,800 rpm and 105 pound-feet of torque at 4,800 rpm. Married to either a five-speed manual transmission or a five-speed automatic, the low-vibration front-drive unit delivers strong power and torque response from low down in the rev range right up to the 6,500-rpm redline — surprisingly low for a Honda. The torque curve is flatter than most rivals and comes on power like a much larger engine. To add to the thrill factor, Honda is offering steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters on the automatic. Obviously, the manual extracts the most performance out of this engine, with its tightly spaced ratios and short-stroke gearshift, but the auto's paddles and unexpectedly quick gearchanges make you feel like an Indy driver, and in a minivan!
So the Fit's VTEC power unit might not be as dramatic as that of the Civic Type-R or NSX, but the little hatch's gearbox ratios are superbly matched to its 1.5-liter's torque curve, thus delivering surprisingly quick acceleration.
But it's not just the well-balanced, fuel-efficient engine and transmissions that enhance the Fit driving experience. A quantum leap in chassis and suspension rigidity takes the Honda into a league of its own in the handling department. One minute of driving is all that is needed to realize just how rigid this minicar is. You soon find yourself leaning into the next corner a little quicker. With bend rigidity jumping 210 percent and twist rigidity up 116 percent, the car feels planted to the road. Completing the Fit's underpinnings in a very un-minivan-like style are MacPherson struts and coil springs up front, an H-pattern torsion beam setup at the rear and side-force-canceling springs — which work to counter body roll.
The speed-sensitive electric power steering is well weighted, if a little heavy, and could do with a touch more natural feedback from the road. Ride quality is stiff but compliant enough for U.S. roads.
The end result is that you can throw the Fit into corners at speeds you shouldn't be able to. Choose your line and enter a corner at 50 mph, and the Fit traces the arc with perfect balance, with just the slightest hint of understeer.
Honda has also incorporated its G-CON high-integrity body frame, which passes the world's most stringent crash standards, including 40-mph offset, 35-mph side impact, and 31-mph rear-collision absorption. Dual front and side-impact airbags, antilock brakes and Electronic Brake Distribution with brake assist have all been fitted as standard equipment.
On the earth-friendly side, HC and NOx emissions have been reduced by 50 percent and more than 90 percent of the Fit is recyclable.
Each model also gets power windows, power mirrors and central locking. Set to raise the stakes in the small car market, the Fit will start at around $13,000.
Only 33 mpg, :surprise: Hell I could buy a good used GEO and get those number and keep the change left over for gas.
Rocky