Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy · August 2012

CongratS on the Volvo my friend. Great buy too! You should pat yourself on the back for that for sure!

nyccarguy · August 2012

I saw a GORGEOUS 1st gen CLS 55 AMG. Black on black. That car is so damn sexy!

andre1969 · August 2012

I'm sure it's just me but I guess I just can't forget the Korean Stigma that was brought on by their early offerings.

This is only hearsay, so take with salt. A friend of a friend bought a Hyundai Sonata hybrid. Never had any problems with it, but apparently resale on them is horrible. Horrible enough, that it prompted this guy to unload the car at a big loss, although I don't know what he replaced it with.

But, now, here's a dumb question. If you've already taken a huge hit in depreciation, doesn't it just make sense to hold onto the car to spread out your loss? I mean, the lowest in value a car can go is zero. So, if you lost, say, 60% of the car's value in its first year, hasn't the damage already been done? IMO, at that point, as long as you like the car at least, you might as well just hold onto it, since you've already taken the brunt of it.

I think resale is the biggest thing that keeps me away from Hyundai/Kia. I'm just worried that if I buy the car and end up hating it, I'm gonna be stuck with it unless I want to take a huge hit. They don't make anything that really blows my mind, but I do kinda like the latest Optima and Elantra. And, I guess I could run into the same problem with resale on a domestic or second-tier Japanese.

kyfdx · August 2012

Stop making sense (as The Talking Heads used to say...)..

tjc78 · August 2012

Nice looking Volvo. I think you stole it.

andre1969 · August 2012

Stop making sense (as The Talking Heads used to say...)..

Well, I did find myself living in a shotgun shack. And I did find myself behind the wheel of a large automobile. And I did ask myself...how did I get here...

stever · August 2012

Not sweating the depreciation (after the first few years when it may get totaled in a wreck) is one benefit of driving them forever. And since you know you won't be trading it, you can ignore the parking lot dings, let some maintenance slide (after the warranty expires), buy touch-it paint in a rattle can at Ace Hardware, drill holes in the interior to attach handy D rings for tie-downs, and use wire ties to put the splash guards back on after you hit one too many curbs.

Wrong crowd to even mention this stuff in. :shades:

fintail · August 2012

I do see the appeal (although as a taller driver, I don't find them good for visibility), but an 06 would have some maintenance risks, and keeping a black on black car clean would be like maintaining a Victorian castle. For the 06, an IWC AMG model would be tops on my list, which was very limited production in a titanium color unique to the edition.

corvette · August 2012

I like it, but the tint is turning purple and there are no seat heaters. The price seems fair, though.

corvette · August 2012

My house is worth less than I paid for it five years ago--according to your friend's logic, that means I should dump it now... :confuse:

I don't think he's telling the whole story. Maybe he didn't like the hybrid as much as he thought he would.

andre1969 · August 2012

I don't think he's telling the whole story. Maybe he didn't like the hybrid as much as he thought he would.

Yeah, that's what I'm guessing. Or maybe he just used "depreciation" as a lame excuse to go chronic-car buying!

Depreciation is actually one thing that kept me in my 2000 Intrepid for so long! I remember looking at the new 2002 Altimas back in late Feb/early March of 2002. At that point, I'd had the Intrepid for a bit less than 2 1/2 years, but it already had about 58,000 miles on it. They offered me $6500 in trade, but I still owed around $11,300 on it. I liked the Altima, but I didn't like it THAT much!

I came close to trading again in September 2003. The dealer I bought the Trep from had a used 2002 Intrepid R/T with 35,000 miles on the lot that they wanted around $16,000 for. My car had about 85,000 miles on it, and I still owed about $4700. The salesguy said my car was worth about $3500, but said they'd up it to what the payoff amount was, to get me in that 2002.

Something about that 2002 though, gave me a bad vibe. One of the headlights was ill-fitting, which made me think it had been in an accident. They also had no service records on it. So, I decided to just stick with what I had, and had it paid in full by Thanksgiving the following year.

qbrozen · August 2012

if good service history, that's actually a pretty good buy. Guys on the bimmer boards would be all over that.

breld · August 2012

I'm sorta tempted just to go look at it to see the condition first-hand, but there really is no room for it, and I wouldn't consider swapping out my 530i for it. So worst case, it's in great condition and therefore a great buy, and somehow I justify picking it up.

I mentioned this before, but one of the guys at our BMW mechanic has a 525i wagon with a stick-shift ('02 I think). It's obviously well taken care of and has relatively low miles (like 106k last I asked). He would sell it, but is looking for that enthusiast buyer who will pay a premium for it. We considered it last year, but coincidentally had come across the 530i that we ended up buying instead.

ateixeira · August 2012

Hyundai has been improving lately and along with that residuals will improve. It's entirely possible that the residuals will go up in the next few years, even likely.

I'm sure he was just looking for an excuse the dump the car. To blame depreciation and then go buy another brand new car (LOL) is rather ironic, since new depreciates most.

andre1969 · August 2012

Hyundai has been improving lately and along with that residuals will improve. It's entirely possible that the residuals will go up in the next few years, even likely.

Yeah, they certainly have, along with Kia. Heck, just today, coming back from lunch I saw a car backed into a handicap spot at work, and as I walked past it I was thinking "Those new Optimas really are nice looking cars".

Imagine my embarrassment when I walked behind it, saw the Lexus logo, and realized it was one of those new GS'es!

ateixeira · August 2012

Call it convergence. All cars are starting to look alike.

I think that's largely due to wind tunnel design, as opposed to an artists' pen.

Even F1 cars look goofy today, with the nose cones stuck up in the air. Remember how beautiful the Lotus cars used to be? Like art. Now they are ... science.

qbrozen · August 2012

So my trunk is full of parts for a service. Oh damn! Just realized I forgot to get plugs at the dealer. Oh well. Anyhoo... convenient thing was I already had many parts sitting on my shelf at home, such as t-belt, water pump, and 2 tensioners.

Pep boys supplied the radiator hoses, serpentine belt, t-stat, and coolant for ~$120.
Dealership helped with the fuel cap and missing plastic body connectors for $50.
And now the surprise of the day, ABS module repair has decreased significantly. For only $79, they are sending me a repaired module in advance and I just need to return my core in 2 weeks. That's service!

I think I will celebrate by springing for this little gem.

I still haven't registered the car, but figure with taxes and all, I'm probably looking at $250 there. I am then going to give myself another reward and let the indy shop do the oil and trans fluid change. That would bring to total outlay to right around $4150 or so. Then I still have a tire situation to deal with, but I'm not ready to do that because I still want to see if I can get the 17s I have sitting at home to fit. Even if not, tires for this car are only about $250 for a set.

isellhondas · August 2012

Andre, people find "reasons" to trade in their cars. If they can't find a valid reason they will make one up.

I watched time and time again as people made some really poor decisions. They traded in perfecty good cars. sometimes these cars had negative equity.

With good credit, it's possible to roll quite a bit of negative equity into a new loan. Anything to put down? Of course not.

Then these people were REALLY buried!

It's always smarter to keep a car, take good care of it for ten years or more.

But, then, "smart" isn't always "fun".

Korean cars continue to suffer from dismal resale value. One of the reasons I can't understand why anyone would buy one considering there isn't a huge price advantage.

To each his own....

stickguy · August 2012

don't go too crazy. I don't want to go over 4K when I take it.

the standard 16" wheels (they are at least alloys, right?) would be OK by me.

fintail · August 2012

Or that the design industry is made up of sycophants. Nice original designs still come out now and then, but not so often.

qbrozen · August 2012

they are alloys, but 15s. The 16s were on the turbo cars.

You are always trying to rip me off, stick. Can't let you have it that cheap. Sorry. :P

stickguy · August 2012

15s, now that is old school baby. It even has a tape deck. I guess it is 15 YO at this point.

well, we'll see how it does once you start using it. Just don't get greedy!

stickguy · August 2012

Edmunds actually has the final pricing for the 2013 Santa Fe up. Was not expecting it this quick, so it must be soon that they hit the lots.

but, they got pricey. Mostly because Hyundai has gone overboard with expensive gizmos, and decided to package the important stuff with a ton of fluff.

so the moonroof? $2,700 tech package with Navi and a fancy pants stereo. Leather/heated seats are another $2,900 or so with a bunch of other stuff that should be standard (recline/slide rear seats) or stand alone (heated steering wheel?).

So, to get the heated/power/leather seats that are IMO must have (and my wife wants), and the moonroof (that I have to have), the prices (MSRP) end up as:

2.4 FWD - $31,875
2.4 AWD - $33,625
2.0T FWD - $33,875
2.0T AWD $35,625

Not exactly the cheaper option I was hoping for, but to be fair, these prices are loaded with everything possible. Navi, over the top stereo, heated steering wheel and rear seats, etc.

comparing to the RDX, the base FWD MSRP is about $35, 200, and an AWD is $36,600. And that is without the fancy tech stuff (navi, stereo). So adding that you go to $38,900/$40,200. So at sticker, 4-5K less depending on the model.

Might have to take the Wife back out to drive the CRV again...

But we will at least drive the Hyundai to see how we like it. And it should not take too long before the Santa Fe gets pretty good discounts!

but man, I hate the way they package these things now. Should be able to get one with all the important stuff, but skipping the fluff, for a good 2K less.

stickguy · August 2012

Now I remember why we were leaning that way before my wife got "champagne taste".

A CRV EX-L MSRP is $39,325 (inv. 27.6).

Yes, I am cheap!

28firefighter · August 2012

I agree with you that it is pricey but I don't think it is all that unreasonable for what you're getting. You're talking about a loaded boat, basically. I don't consider a difference of $4000-$5000 in price insignificant. The problem is you weren't looking to go for a loaded boat on the RDX in the first place because you didn't need to which reduces the price difference significantly.

Even still, I think a loaded up Santa Fe 2.0T FWD is really a decent deal. I like the looks of it. My question would be how the quality of the builds compare - if the build quality is comparable, I'd be giving the Santa Fe an edge over the RDX...

FWIW, MotorWeek did a compare of the CR-V, CX-5, Equinox, Tucson and Escape this week all with a sticker under $25k before destination charge. The CR-V came out on top as being the best ride and most intuitive interior.

stickguy · August 2012

I just watched that episode yesterday. My wife did really like the CRV, and if she ended up with it, would likely be very happy. But, once they get a taste of the good stuff, it is hard to settle! But if it is a choice of that or keeping an old minivan, she may cave!

The biggest drawbacks with the CRV? She did not really like the blue they offer, and it is actually has too much "Hondaness", so it did not seem (sitting in the driver's seat) to be all that much different than the van.

28firefighter · August 2012

Personally, I just find absolutely nothing compelling about the CR-V. From styling, to powertrain, to interior, to pricing - just does not do it for me.

Then again, I have an obsession with the European makes, so I shouldn't be so surprised at myself that a Honda wouldn't be on my list of desirable vehicles. Except maybe NYC's Prelude - THAT looks like a lot of fun.

stickguy · August 2012

huge price jump to get into the Euro lines though.

we did drive the Volvo XC60, and she liked it a lot. But, it failed the seatbelt test (cut across her neck). Might have been able to adjust past that. But, they get expensive fast unless you get a strippo. even those MSRP are pretty steep. And forget BMW.

28firefighter · August 2012

What about a CPO Audi Q5?

Or, it looks like VW is blowing out the 2012 Touraeg V6 Sport. A base model seems to cover all your requirements except a sunroof. Not sure if that is a bigger car than you'd want.

au1994 · August 2012

40k for a CRV? I am out of the loop.

qbrozen · August 2012

Hey now. I'm never greedy. That's why my cars always sell so fast. :P

ateixeira · August 2012

Upgrade to a Navi setup and you lose that wonderful tape deck. LOL

stickguy · August 2012

I tried the CPO path, but she wants something new (doesn't like the idea of other people smelling up the car, etc. besides, it would be "used")

Toureg? never really considered one for a number of reason, price being one of them!

stickguy · August 2012

well, you have to get every option (navi) to barely crack 30K on a CRV.

unless you were making fun of the RDX as a glorified CRV, because the top model there does break 40K.

ateixeira · August 2012

X1 will start at $31.5k, but it's more wagon than crossover.

Plus you know how BMW is...

base price $31.5k
Sport package $5k (why get a BMW if you don't get the sport model?)
Navi/tech $5k
metallic paint $2k
Moonroof package $5k
Misc add ons
Total actual price $50k

Mid $30s for the small Santa Fe is too much, though.

What about an Elantra Touring? Those are $25k loaded and you get a very cool panoramic moonroof.

28firefighter · August 2012

The Touraeg Sport V6 lists in the mid 40s, but according to some people I've spoken with, the base model is selling in the 37ish range for a 2012. It isn't cheap, by any stretch, but I love them.

The base comes very nicely equipped, too.

stickguy · August 2012

too small for a family travel vehicle. My wife has never mastered the concept of travelling lite, and even just getting her into a smaller CUV (forester, RDX, etc.) is going to be a panic. Probably lead to divorce the first time she brings out everything we own, and I start putting stuff back since I can't get it all to fit!

in defense of the santa fe, that sucker is loaded. It has everything (model to model) that the RDX offers, plus more (niceties like a sliding rear seat, and gizmos like heated steering wheel and rear seats). The SF is equipped like a Lexus.

what screwed me over is she wouldn't settle for the Outback. Neither one of us really liked the front seats, and to her, it was a bit to boring or wagoney. That was a ton of car for the money.

isellhondas · August 2012

I must REALLY be out of the loop. Stick's numbr HAS to be wrong! 39,000 MSRP for an EXL CRV??

Don't think so!

ateixeira · August 2012

Supposedly the 2013 OB handles better with the revisions they made.

What about a Kia Sorento, is it any cheaper with the same equipment?

I sort of prefer it's boxier shape. The middle DI engine sort of hits the sweet spot by having decent power and mpg.

qbrozen · August 2012

that actually was a concern for me.

But I asked an expert on the volvo board and he said it wouldn't affect the value. haha.

Hey, initial plan was to play my ipod through a tape adapter. But I got carried away. $282 for the head unit and $40 for the ipod adapter on ebay. Eh, its only 10% of the car's purchase price. And I still have the dual LCDs and DVD player sitting on the shelf from the mazda5. Kids might like this car better than the minivan. :shades:

roadburner · August 2012

Great car, especially for the mney. I loved my wife's 1991 740 Turbo. From a roll it showed more than a few Mustang 5.0s the short way home...

stickguy · August 2012

I must have made a typo. a CRV EX-L (without RES or Navi) stickers for about 29.3K

au1994 · August 2012

I must have made a typo. a CRV EX-L (without RES or Navi) stickers for about 29.3K

Thats better. The 40k number made coffee come out of my nose this morning.

breld · August 2012

I know to get to apples to apples, you're comparing the loaded Santa Fe to a tech RDX, but since you don't have to get all the tech stuff to get a sunroof and power seats, etc. in the RDX, I'd go with the Acura, assuming the wife likes it better. Same money, if not less, for the RDX "base", right?

Didn't you say you could get $3k off MSRP on the Acura?

nyccarguy · August 2012

a Honda wouldn't be on my list of desirable vehicles. Except maybe NYC's Prelude - THAT looks like a lot of fun.

It is. And thank-you :P

roadburner · August 2012

This is a bit off topic, but the Edmunds "Help" page is also screwed up(why am I not surprised?)

Anyway, here is the issue:

Even though it appears that I am logged in to Inside Line, I continually receive the following message when I attempt to post a comment in the Straightline, Long Term Test, or Reader's Rides blogs:

Your comment submission failed for the following reasons: Invalid email address 'abtaylor@windstr1L6×d'¡³pmêÛoÝ^d»B;Tpq&æÌÜèfÆ'

I have no problem posting on these Edmunds forums using the same login. I'd appreciate it if a host could give me an email address where I could report the problem since the "Help" page isn't... :mad:

stickguy · August 2012

took the Volvo for a weekend trip to Saratoga. Little car did fine on the highway. As long as you don't need to accelerate really fast!

cruises along nicely, and averaged about 31mpg overall (highway/local mix, and a bunch of traffic heading up). And coming back today, on the 200 or so mile highway stretch (no traffic jams, running about 70) the trip computer said it was getting about 32.5. That is with 3 people, a trunk full of stuff, and the AC on the whole way.

stever · August 2012

There's some log-in issues with the forums but haven't seen anything for Inside Line, and nothing involving email garage. But that just means I'm not in the loop for those.

Can't load the Contact Us page either eh? That's how stuff gets routed to the right department. Let me know and I'll ask and try to find an IT email for you when the home office opens up tomorrow (stever@edmunds.com).

roadburner · August 2012

Thanks, Steve. The "Contact Us" page is now working so I hope to get the problem resolved soon.

stickguy · August 2012

was discussing the options for her, in light of Hyundai deciding to by mean about how they are packaging options.

her opinion? Don't bother with the $2,700 option package (nav, pano roof) since we don't need the Nav, and she does not really care about the roof. Side benefit, you then get roof rails (pano deletes them) so we can put a carrier up there if needed, for her extra ~~junk~~ stuff.

tempting. She rarely lets me open it when she is in the car, so it really is not all that necessary. It would just kill me to buy without it!

I wish they offered a standard style moonroof too, instead of that huge expanse of glass which IMO is really a gimmick.

anyway, eventually they have to show up, and she wants to go drive both models (2.4 and the turbo) back to back, followed by the Acura. Conveniently, at the local auto mall, they are right across the parking lot!

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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