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Comments
I'm considering purchasing a Jetta TDI. I take good care of my cars, drive conservatively, and drive them until they are no longer driveable. My last car had almost 300,000 miles on the odometer and parts were failing.
The key feature that's drawing me to the TDI is the mileage. I also like the car in general, although I have yet to test drive one. Test Drives I've read rate the TDI as positive and say the TDI is a fun car to drive. I'm not interested in a Prius to achieve high mpg.
I've been researching the TDI and diesels in general, and I'm seeing sites that lead me to think the TDI may require a lot of TLC. I'm not clear if these folks are just the diehards who devote a great deal of time to their TDI's (no offense intended, I just don't want to do that), or if I should expect to spend a lot of time and money keeping a TDI running.
One other thing, I owned a couple of VWs in the early 70s and did not have good experiences with either my local dealer or with VW of America.
Given that background, I'd appreciate any input you can provide on your satisfaction with the TDI, your experiences with the maintenance and upkeep, and your impressions of VW dealers in general as well as the company.
Thanks in advance.
I have had no horror stories with VW dealerships, but then again, I have really had no issues. I have the big sunroom and NAV, and love them both. The NAV is more accurate than the Mercedes NAV, in my opinion.
We have not been driving much lately...mostly short, in town trips, so the MPG is only averaging about 28, according to the computer. It was closer to 40 when we were driving a lot. I think the higher figure is more accurate.
I would not hesistate to buy another Jetta TDI. It seems to be well made, and we enjoy driving it a lot.
Diesel car maintenance isn't "more" or "less"---it's just different, and that sometimes trips people up, because they don't study their owner's manual.
The back seat is cramped by the huge trunk extending so far into the cabin. The 2011 Jetta has been stretched 3 inches so that has to be a good thing, but it's still a small car overall.
I would wait until the new Mid Size VW shows up this fall and take one for a spin. By then the HPFP issues might have been resolved and that new TDI engine that was rushed into production has to be improved a little now that VW has had some owners R&D to study.
As for your "how much work is a diesel" question, the VW TDI's especially with the DSG transmission have some VERY expensive maintenace shedules that REALLY do need to be done on time.
Depending on where you live, the DSG fluid change can cost from $300.00 to $595.00 every 40,000 miles. Engine Oil, coolant and fuel filter changes are VW propriatary services, and cost at least double what a gas engine would be. Even If you are a DIY'er, VW services can be daunting.
If you live in an area where there are a few VW dealerships you can at least shop around for these services, and you might get lucky find a good Indy' shop that will do the work.
This forum has some "Trusted Mechanics" you can search for in your area.
If you can't find one, keep on shopping for your new vehicle.
There are great looking new 2011 regular gas powered, mid sized cars out there now with better warranties getting nearly as good MPG's as the TDI's without all the drama. :shades:
As previously mentioned, the DSG fluid change is quite expensive, mine was around $300. I live in Western PA and had no issues starting in the winter with temps as low as -10 F on some mornings, and I have not used any additives of any kind. The dealership experience for me has been fairly good, no complaints here.
One thing I noticed is that you didn't specify if you are looking for a sedan or sportwagen version of the TDI, or if you are looking for a manual or automatic. This info would also help us help you figure out if the TDI is a good choice for you. As for me, I am not a big fan of driving in stop/go traffic with the DSG (a bit too jerky for me), but I don't really spend much time in city traffic so I don't mind too much.
Looking for a down to earth answer on the heating issue. Just about every gas car(which is all of them) I've had has only taken about 1 to 2 miles to start blowing out hot air. 1 mile when it's 20-35 degrees out and 1.5 to 2 when it's like -10 to 20 degrees. I mean good hot air in well less than 5 minutes. Does the TDI take substantial more? Like 5 miles or 10-15 minutes?
I'm not a wuss and I know heated seats help but in Chicago area even heated seats don't warm you up that quickly as I have them now. I also am concerned about the defroster powers when it's that cold. How well do they work?
I have the 6 speed standard tranny and the car is fun to drive. Mileage is approx 39 or 40 mpg and I dont baby the car to get that. On long trips it can jump up to 47 mpg or more.
The fit and trim are good however I think VW could have spent a couple of more bucks on the finish items. The buttons and switches are a little on the flimsy side in my opinion, then again the car is in the sub 25K catagory and I guess that is what you can expect.
Good luck on your choice. I would recommend this car.
The dealer I bought the car from had some issues but that was under that cash for Clucker program which was poorly administered by the gov, so I dont hold VW accountable on that. At a different dealer for service I had to return to dealer 2 sometimes 3 times to get it fixed properly.
All in all, I love the car. Everyone that i talk to on the road that has them love them as well.
One time when the temp was around 0 and I stopped at a traffic light, the engine temp dropped about 40-50 degrees, and I started to lose heat inside the car As long as you are moving at a decent speed at low temps it will stay warm enough. I don't drive much in stop and go traffic which Chicago can have quite a lot of, so I can imagine that it may take some effort to keep it warm.
I believe that the web car forums have to taken with a grain of salt because they act as concentrators for negative comments, and are often heavy with condescending comments from hyper-whiney anal types who check their tire pressure every day and expect their VW to be a BMW. I don't think you can generalize on dealers; some econo car dealers are fantastic, some lux car dealers are lousy.
My sole complaint is that the std radio FM has terrible audio quality, but is pretty good on all other functions. The ability to play from a 16G SD card makes the CD player and iPod connector essentially redundant AFAIC.
That said... I haven't heard of anyone else mentioning a loss of heat even if they do live in a very cold climate?
For me... no problem... for my wife? No chance..
With all due respect to the diesel owners on this forum, every single TDI owner that I've spoken to in my neck of the woods, says it takes longer to get heat compared to a gas car.. and, in extreme cold, exponentially so...
My wife would kill me.... lol
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I've spent a fair amount of time in Chicago, actually my favorite city. Just not a fan of 90/94 traffic in rush hour....
I can get the car to successfully lock if I open and then close the rear door, then press the lock button on the driver's side door, close the door, and then insert the key into the door and turn it to the right to lock. I know its a pain, but not sure how much it would be to replace the module. Would it be worth replacing, or just keep it as is? I'm guessing the warranty is out for this at 36K. Also, would anyone know how difficult it would be to replace by yourself or with a semi-competent friend? We're not exactly automotive gurus, but we can manage our way around.
Some times I can get it to work with the remote, but I think I can do this only if I don't open the rear doors. I guess if it gets to the point where I can't lock them anymore, then I guess I'll have no choice.
Doc Mitchell
My understanding of IQ is the baseline in the compression-cycle where the "start of injection" begins. (The foundation where ALL the fuel-injection pulses originate)
BTW: Using a K&N (oiled cotton) airfilter will NOT coat the O2 sensor... instead, it coats the MAF sensor. (Mass AirFlow). An O2 sensor is in the EXHAUST system... not the intake system.
Granted, the outside temp. would be -15F and my drive is a lonely country road at 5:30AM.
HOWEVER, the seat-heater warms my backside quite nicely. (Dont even EXPECT any heat from the vents!) For cold-weather driving, seat-heaters is the #1 best optoin to get.
Lets not forget that the trade-off for exceptional econemy (MPG) is that the engine does not produce much 'waste' heat. The heat from the vents in the cabin are SOLELY due to an inefficent engine heating the antifreeze with wasted fuel.
A 100% efficent engine would produce NO HEAT whatsoever. (All the energy in the fuel would be used to move the vehicle forward.... not produce wasted heat.)
Of course, it is rarely colder than 15 here in Kansas.
Believe me, the heat is not wasted when it is -15 out.
I have leather heated seats in my vehicle but I can tell you that I have heat blowing out of my vents(gas engine) before I can feel the warmth from the seats to any degree. They both kind of warm up at the same time it seems.
you may find one much hotter than the others due to wheelbearing or dragging-brake-caliper - it could be so hot it will seriously burn your finger if you do more than a tap to feel the temp. if indeed one wheel/hub is much hotter like that, then you've found the mpg culprit.
Anyone who lives in Vermont knows it RARELY (if ever) parcipatates when the ambient temp is below 0F. The air is soooooo dry that there is no moisture available to fall from the sky. The coldest nights happen when there are no clouds. The earths heat radiates into space. (Radiational cooling) No clouds= no parcipatation
In fact, one can watch the small amount of ice-crystals which are on the windshiled sublimanate in front of their eyes.
You have not really experienced cold weather until you see sublimination happen right in front of your eyes!
One NH morning my backyard was colder than the Martian surface.
The time when defrost/low-heat is a problem in TDIs is during an ice storm or snowstorm where the temperatures are in mid-20s. ice/snow can accrue by freezing on the windshield in stop^go/slow&go traffic because the engine is not making enough heat.
With 10 TDI winters in new england , this has happened approximately twice,
a partial workaround is to turn on every accessory & heating-elements (windshield, back window, mirrows) to make the engine work harder.
My MINI varies between 26 and 34--that's quite a spread. It depends on how I drive it.
Instead, a vehicle whcih jurnalists test are often driven hard and end up reflecting poor examples of real-world MPG numbers. Poorly broken-in engine gets poor MPG for life.
I know my TDI torque-peak is at 1800 RPM and hence gets the best MPG at that point. If I am patent enough to drive 55 MPH, I can acheive nearly 60 MPG. However, my lifetime MPG average (over 100,000 miles) is 50 MPG.
HOWEVER: The real measurement is COST PER MILE. This number can be used to compare to ANY vehicle running on ANY fuel. My TDI (over 100,000 miles) comes out to $0.05/mile. I dare say this is better than any other vehiclce sold in North America.
You can think of this as purposfully consuming more fuel just to speed warmup of the engine.
Anyone who really REALLY wants to have heat can install a webasto heater. This consumes diesel from your fueltank to keep the engine toasty-warm.
I think the recent/09/010 TDIs have the electric-air-heater too.
as far as MPG goes, my Jetta TDIs have never provided less than 40 mpg, over about 300k miles! OK, one exception: a ~100 mph tank out west - mpg did drop below 40 for that one!
I suspect that what we are seeing is anecdotal vs. recorded data. I'm sure i could get 40+ mpg but I'm not sure why auto magazines can't seem to. If you see any longterm test that nails 40+ mpg, let us know. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.
You know, multiple drivers, short trips---that can hurt mileage.
Went on a trip from Detroit to Knoxville for Memorial Day weekend. The car was loaded with luggage and 2 adults. Ran the A/C the entire 530 miles each way at about 68 mph and averaged about 45.5 mpg including being stuck in Cincinnati traffic on the way down and in Lexington on the way back, for an hour each way. My daily commute of 22 miles (18 miles on 8 Mile Rd, a 4 lane divided highway with 4 or 5 stops each way and about 4 miles on M10, an expressway) averaging about 38 mph, I get about 48 mpg without the A/C on. With the A/C, it's closer to 42 mpg. Cooler temps make a difference too.
The problem is that you are looking for jurnalists to do this. You are looking in the wrong place. Again... most TDIs driven by jurnalist are NOT initially broken-in properly AND are driven by lead-footed folks who are looking for accelleration.
A poorly broken-in engine will FOREVER be a poorly broken-in engine. Nothing short of pulling the pistons and re-honing the cylinders can correct a poorly broken-in engine. (Then, of-course, followed by a careful break-in procedure)
Try to realize that driving a TDI like a Porsche every day and then complaining it "only" gets 40 MPG is the real testamant to the efficency of these vehicles.
I submit to you MY long-term test of my 2003 TDI. I have recorded EVERY drop of fuel ever pumped into the tank into an extensive spreadsheet. (over 100,000 miles)
Overall average MPG = 50.0
Overall cost-per-mile = $0.05
* FYI my cobb stage 2 Evo gets 22 mpg overall, 26 highway @ 75mph.