I think if a customer/shopper is very concerned about gas mileage, they should probably buy something else. The turbo makes it too tempting to use that throttle, and premium fuel is a must with forced induction. So basically you will use a lot of expensive gas.
If they even ask about mileage, they're barking up the wrong tree.
Why? Audi's 2.0T gets 32 mpg. Performance and efficiency can go together, I'm not sure why you guys think they can't.
has anyone driven the MS6 in snow with the stock Bridgestones? I am tempted to swap them right away as there is still a lot of winter left here in Pennsylvania
I haven't driven it myself, but since the tires specified for the MS6 are summer tires, I'd get a set of winter tires right away, while they're still available. If not, get some all-seasons.
Summer tires are dangerous in the cold and snow. Since they're geared toward summer conditions (warmer temperatures and rainy conditions), the tire compound gets tougher in colder temperatures, decreasing traction and flexibility. It's like riding and cornering on plastic hockey pucks. The tread isn't suited for the snow and ice either, causing one to lose control very easily compared to winter or all-seasons.
My suggestion is to buy a separate set of 17" winter tires and wheels. It saves the wear and tear or removing/replacing tires on those expensive 18" wheels twice a year, as well as saving them from exposure to the damaging road salt and sand. 17" tires are much less expensive as well. A wise idea is to hunt down a used set of the regular 6's 17" alloys, and get a set of 215/50-17 winter tires. The 16" wheels for the regular 6 do NOT clear the brakes, but the 17" do without any rubbing, and the tire size is the stock size for the regular 6, so you can't go wrong.
That engine is perfectly fine in a light Audi A3 FWD, but note Audi didn't have the confidence to come out with a Quattro version - too heavy perhaps?
If you want an AWD sedan, the 2.0T is not going to deliver the level of performance you're talking about. It'll be adequate at best.
Besides, even if they did come out with that, if you drove around in the boost all the time, it still wouldn't be all that quick plus you'd get 22mpg if you're lucky.
thanks for the input. we get around 20 days a year where snow is an issue around here. most of the time it is dry and the snow does melt off the roads (very aggressive salt/sand -both good and bad ?) I am leaning toward all seasons. I have read good stuff about the P zero neros. looks like a good deal can be had from tire rack. If i can find a buyer for the OE tires, I may be able to do a swith with little money out of pocket.
my 01 2.7T A6 quattro was able to get thru anything with just all seasons. quattro is much more sophisticated than the Speed AWD but I'm hoping it will suffice.
The 2006 Audi 2.0T Quattro only has 200hp. My old 1998 Eclipse GS-T got in the mid-to-high 20's in milage. The MS6 is just to powerful to get good gas mileage. The STi is the same way.
my 01 2.7T A6 quattro was able to get thru anything with just all seasons. quattro is much more sophisticated than the Speed AWD but I'm hoping it will suffice
The Audi Quattro is one of the best AWD systems, if not the best. Same can be said about Subaru. Mazda's is OK, and should be just fine with snow tires on it.
I read that for the new CX-7, Mazda has modified their AWD system to send 50% of torque to the rear wheels.
the speed awd is 100% fwd but can split 50% to rears with slippage or in hard acceleration. is the cx7 full time split? with the traction control and aggressive computer controls, I don't know if there can be a different torque split to each rear wheel if conditions warrant it. once i get my new car i'll be able to find out with all the sand that is spread around our roads. my current RSX-S is having a fit with no slip differential in front. Aggressive driving and sand can be interesting.
Is getting the 2.3l turbo engine as well. Interesting strategy. But if it didn't, it would have ended up a clone of the Ford/Lincoln versions.
Its getting a de-tuned version of the MS6 2.3MZR DISI Turbo. I'm pretty sure it's pumping 244hp. It's also on the Mazda6 frame, the CD3 platform. It's an all Mazda vehicle. Ford took it, and they are using it.
I have not been able to find what type of AWD system it is. I wonder how it is different from the MS6. From what I've read, it sounds better.
That engine is perfectly fine in a light Audi A3 FWD, but note Audi didn't have the confidence to come out with a Quattro version - too heavy perhaps?
Internationally a 2.0 Quattro exists. It's only the US we don't get it. From what I've read, Audi didn't want to certify it for use here...small market for hatchbacks and smaller still for AWD hatches.
If you want an AWD sedan, the 2.0T is not going to deliver the level of performance you're talking about. It'll be adequate at best.
ROFL The 2.0T in the A3 delivers over 200 HP (dynos show it has over 200 hp at wheels) and over 200 ft-lbs of torque from 1800-5k rpm. That's a far better and flatter torque curve on my 330i's 3.0. Additionally, one chip bumps the engine to 250 hp/300 ft-lbs or torque. That's more than adequate with the A3.
Besides, even if they did come out with that, if you drove around in the boost all the time, it still wouldn't be all that quick plus you'd get 22mpg if you're lucky.
You're always in the boost with Audi/VW's 2.0T. There is no turbo on/turbo off effect seen in cars like the WRX.
Last word I've seen - no awd on the Mazdaspeed3. It's a shame too, as the Mazda3 is light so even if they added 300 lbs, the car would still ring in around 3k lbs - thus keeping it far, far more nimble than the overweight MS6.
The 2006 Audi 2.0T Quattro only has 200hp. My old 1998 Eclipse GS-T got in the mid-to-high 20's in milage. The MS6 is just to powerful to get good gas mileage. The STi is the same way.
That's plain ludicrous. A Corvette with over 300 hp can get 30 mpg.
They are sending the V6 Quattro, though. My point being Audi didn't think the 2.0FSI had enough grunt for US tastes when coupled with AWD.
Audi's decision, not mine.
Chips kill warranties, so I focus on what powertrains can do stock. The 1.8T had plenty of issues with ignition coils and I wouldn't want to open that can of worms with the newer, even more complex powertrain.
Also note I said sedan specifically, as in A4 Quattro. The A3 is a bit small to compete directly with the Speed6, though I know you compare the two for your needs.
I hate to use the forums for this, but ateixeira/Juice, I'm dying to pick your brain, I sent you an e-mail at your listed hotmail account if you could please reply to it. I'm torn as to which to purchase, and I need to make my purchase by January 3, 2005! I'm on the fence between the MAZDASPEED6 Touring edition, and the WRX STI (2006).
My sincere conern is to how genuine the SPEED6 is in the performance section, as I've been a fan of WRC and the EVO/STI for the past 10 years, and I can finally afford the STI, and then there's the SPEED6, I'm just hoping to discuss the capabilities of each with someone who understands them better than I do.
I think it is possible to get 30 in a C6 manual but 26-28 is probably more likely if you cruise in the 70-90 range. My auto equipped C6 has shown a consistent 22-23 at those speeds; which is pretty good considering I have the optional lower geared rearend. At 70 MPH my engine is turning 1800 RPMs and I can run regular if I want to. Mr. Blue is right, the new Corvettes are not gas hogs by any means.
Hey, you're not derailing this thread! That's what the Forums are for - discussion about purchasing vehicles. Hopefully Juice will answer your questions here so that everyone can benefit.
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Yes, the Speed6 also has summer tires, but the STI has a very stiff suspension and is really more of a single-purpose, focused car.
I have not driven a Speed6 to compare them directly, but C&D just did in the Feb issue, and it didn't score so well. Performance was great, though, but I guess they didn't think it did so well in other areas.
The STI is like that, only more so. How far are you willing to compromise to get the absolute best driving experience? Be honest with yourself, I can't answer that for you.
I have kids, so I'd need two booster seats in the back. That almost seems silly in an STI. So I'd opt for a Legacy GT or Speed6, personally.
But if I had no kids, well, that would be different.
The STI is VERY focused on performance. The MS6 is a compromise, harder and more sporting than the current 6 but also more luxurious. I could live with a MS6 and not feel like I was driving some hardcharger severe performance car. The STI...I couldn't live with it. It's too much from the noise to the seats to the interior bits...it all adds up to fast and the furious living.
Blue/Juice are both right. I have driven both numerous times. I work for a Mazda dealer, but we also have a Subaru store. They are really two completely different cars. If you are looking for balls to the wall performance, it's a no-brainer..STi. If you are looking for a more comfort/luxury with more then adequate performance, then the Mazdaspeed6.
It's all about what YOU as a consumer are looking for in a vehicle. It would be my recommendation to experience BOTH cars, and come to your OWN conclusion. Since YOU are the one to shell out $30K for a vehicle, make sure before you sign the dotted line, you are leaving with what you really want.
I have not driven a Speed6 to compare them directly, but C&D just did in the Feb issue, and it didn't score so well. Performance was great, though, but I guess they didn't think it did so well in other areas.
To be fair to the MS6, C&D had problems with the lack of creature comforts, specifically, no moonroof or leather. Of course, they had a sport, which is the lower of the two models. The GS has the leather standard, and the moonroof is optional, as well as GPS.
They were also looking for the best all-around car for the price, comparing the MS6 against the Pontiac G6, Honda Accord V6, Acura TSX, and VW Jetta GLI. The MS6 blew the doors off each of them. If you're looking at the STi as well, any of these cars aren't on your list, I'm sure...
The STI is like that, only more so. How far are you willing to compromise to get the absolute best driving experience? Be honest with yourself, I can't answer that for you.
Absolutely! I've sat in both cars (STi and MS6 GS). The fit and finish of the MS6 was far superior, with higher quality materials, and smoother controls. The STi in comparison is rough around the edges, very raw, knowing it's single purpose is to astonish it's driver with it's abilities.
IMO, if you want raw power and handling, without compromises, the STi (or the EVO) is your choice. If you're willing to give up 0.8 seconds to 60 MPH (or more), for a larger car with more creature comforts, the MS6 is for you.
It's funny. It seems almost everyone has a different opinion on what to compare the MS6 to. One person may compare it to other AWD vehicles. Another may compare other vehicles in the same price range. And the rest seem to be comparing it to other vehicles with similar horse power.
Me, personally, it would be AWD vehicles with a lot of HP that I compare it to. And then, the price.
This is what is so fun about the automotive industry. Every manufacturer trying to put out a cutting edge product that has car enthusiasts around the world going crazy to get their hands on them.
Yeah, it does seem a bit absurd to compare the G6 to the Speed6, gimme a break. Compare the 6s, and favorably.
The 6S sedan with manual should've been the obvious choice to have in that comparo, and it would've done much better than 4th, even if it couldn't keep up with the Accord in 0-60 and quarter mile times. It would've put the G6 and TSX to shame, and given the VW a run for 1st place in the comparo. At that price, the only thing it would lack would be the Nav, but I hate those things anyway, and it'd include the "all-important" leather and moonroof that the old farts at C&D now seem to require in their Buicks... oops, I mean daily drivers!
Between the five choices for me... MS6 by a landslide, followed by the Accord V6, GLI, TSX, G6.
In an earlier post, the conversation arose about the MS6 having NO torque go to the rear wheels, because it was a Haldex AWD system. When I was at the drive event in Dallas, TX, we were told that it DID have torque go to the rear wheels. I was just reading C+D online, and they wrote in their article "deliver up to half the engine torque to the reinforced Mazda RX-8 limited-slip rear differential". I may not be a technical wiz, so if I am misinterpreting this, can someone please clarify. Juice, I think I discussed this with you.
By default the MS6 is a FWD car. If slippage is detected up to 50% of the power can be transfered to the rear wheels.
FWIW, the AWD system in the MS6 is one of the worst implementations I've ever heard of. The power should default to the rear with up to 50% going to the front (ideally 100% should be able to go front to rear and rear to front, but whatever). The acceleration and cornering of the car would be greatly improved if it was RWD biased.
The MS6 is a compromise, harder and more sporting than the current 6 but also more luxurious
Harder and more sporting, yes....more luxurious then the regular 6, not really....the smart key system is the only real difference, and center console finish. Other then that, every interior appointment is the same at a Grand Touring M6, or a Grand Sport M6. i.e. leather, heated seats, heated mirrors, electroelumenecent gauges, power seat.
Unless Mazda has changed leather since 03, then there are other upgrades. I haven't been near a Mazda6 since my first drives back in 03. I recall the leather then feeling cheap (not as horrible as the Mazda3's leather). Also the car rides differently and because it's a turbo 6 speed the sound of the tranny and engine are decidely different. Actually, the MS6's engine is way too quiet for my tastes.
Okay, this post will enclose my final decision between the MS6 and the STI. I'll give a brief history of my situation, which should quickly prompt you guys to my purchasing decision.
I'm 24 (with six months to 25), and I can afford the insurance for either, as I intend to pay it up front, I finished college in May 2005, and I was fortunate enough to find a good job, and I've never splurged on myself for much of anything before (I drive a friggin' 1997 Saturn right now). I'm finally making money and decided to pursue a nearly 12 year long dream of mine... an EVO/STI.
Until now, I've always been inspired by the EVO and loathed the "bug eyes" of the STI (I know, it's what so many have come to love). Every year, I've seen magazines typically hand their trophy to the EVO while casually stating that it could have gone to either. I'm fortunate enough that I wasn't able to purchase either of the two cars until the arms race was so fierce that the STI was forced to produce a whopping 2.5L beast!
With this came the fact that I've been dating a 29 year old gal for 4 years now, and she's looking for marriage, house etc. She, as one would expect, is not terribly fond of the STI's styling cues, etc. She could care less about performance. She owns a 2006 RX-8, which she bought... guess why!! For pure styling... so she was buzzing in my ear about the Mazda, so I took it for a test drive yesterday. It was exhilarating, but it felt quirky and awkward, especially when I was going 90 on the interstate, it seemed that whether I was in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear, the car ran incredibly high RPMs for the interstate portion of my test drive. I never really laid into the vehicle to test it's limits, but I found it fun, and very luxurious and refined (I'm a 24 year old who has driven a Saturn SC2 for the past 7 years, and spent 5 of those years in school and working to pay the damned thing off!). While it was refined, and able to haul some pretty nice butt, I found myself torn. I had driven an STI before, but for no more than a 2 mile stretch, up and down a straight street... so being able to take the Mazda through some nice twisties at about 65, I enjoyed myself. The little extras (nifty little remote and keyless ignition system) are nice, but didn't make up for the lack of raw speed, and the fact that in the back of my mind, I was concerned with the fraudulent proclamation of 4WD... my dream cars have actual 4WS with a true 50/50.
Well, that was yesterday, and I was happy with it, and today, I went to my neighborhood Subaru, stepped into a white STI with gold rims and 75 miles on it, and I was instructed to haul butt onto the interstate (merging using a complete 180 loop - thank god, because this is when my heart shed a tear of solemn comfort that God intended for me to be born at the precise time that would allow for this unadulterated beast to roar at my command). Well, I merged into traffic, and heard the beast roar through 4th gear, and fly through it as if it was the second gear of the puny 2 door box I'd been forced to endure for the past 7 years. This, my friends, was escapism at it's finest, brought to me by 4 supple compounded tires, and a diamond of an engine/exhaust/suspension combo. AMAZING.
I'm currently on vacation, but I fly home on the 31st, and I've been in casual negotiations with about 6 Subaru dealers over the past month, and today, one offered me 2% off of INVOICE to take their last STI off of their hands (luckily, the one in my home town).
The color is not to my liking, as it is the Crystal Grey Metallic, and I intend to purchase the Obsidian Black Pearl. The gentleman explained over the phone that he would call me tomorrow morning with a price that would make even the most discerning customer color blind. I told him that for me to go grey over black, it would have to be a price that will make the finance manager of his dealership come to tears.
If it's my dream car, it comes in black, but depending on how this price war works out, I might be driving a Crystal Grey Metallic 2006 WRX STI on December 31st, when I step off of my plane!
Wish me luck guys & gals, come tomorrow I will begin the pruchase of either a black or crystal grey, and soon I will be a bona fide member of the Subaru Techinica International civilian donkey race team (as my best friend so eloquently phrased it).
One more question, can I get some good recommendations for rally driving schools in the Southeast United States? I am new to 4WD, and new to anything more than 100+/-20bhp. I want to invest in my own capabilities to insure against myself being the cause of any errors while I learn to tame and respect the object of my adolescent, teen, and now young adult affections.
I will keep ya'll posted as to how this all plays out, and which color and options I end up with.
***If there are any recommendations as to options I should seek to have added to the vehicle, please inform me, as it would be greatly appreciated. The Crystal Grey comes with the short throw shifter, and the autodimming mirror w/ compass. I'll let you know the "color blinding" offer he makes me tomorrow afternoon!
Thanks again for everything you guys had to offer in your replies! I look forward to being a member of the community here! And if anyone has questions about the mazda Speed6, I drove it for about 30 minutes yesterday, so feel free to ask. It was fun, and if I had kids, this would be a no brainer, but lucky for me, my g/f and I are about 5 years from even considering wanting children, so this will work out great for me!
Sorry for length, just a smidgeon excited at the moment!
as Juice mentioned earlier, the Speed6 needs to be compared directly with the Legacy Spec B, not the STI.
John
I was responding to someone else! I wouldn't compare the MS6 to the STI unless someone asked me to.
Then again, many here don't think the MS6 should be compared to the 2wd G35, A4, 2wd 325i, 2wd IS250, Legacy GT, etc. To me the MS6 has AWD only because it must or it'd be stuck with lousy FWD. I see the price, pseudo-luxury and performance, thus the cars I mentioned came to mind. Compared to all those, the IS250, Legacy and A4 lose out to the MS6.
It was a pretty nice car, no BMW or Audi in terms of ameneties, but it's worth the price tag.
I hadn't actualized my desire for sheer performance over luxury and comfort until I was behind the wheel of the STI, accelerating into a large loop, being pressed more BACK into the seat, as opposed to being pushed out of it along the apex of the turn... this might all be common for you guys, but it's a phenomenon to me. I look forward to it being the norm.
The two cars probably don't compare, it's apples and oranges, but based on the specs on paper, I couldn't help but test drive the mazda. If the STI didn't exist, I'd be in love with the mazda, heheh... just makes me wish there was a third car that could compare to the performance quality found in the STI... competition is great for us consumers!
Yeah, "up to half" in this case means 0-50% of torque to the rear wheels, but default is still 0%.
Still, with a TPS (throttle position sensor) it can send power to the rear axle as soon as you hit the gas. Volvo's system is pretty quick and I'd bet this one is, too.
Competition improves the breed. God bless the competition. The MS6 will surely force Subaru to put the 6 speed in the Spec B, maybe tweak output, who knows? It also brings prices down when you have choices and can buy elsewhere. It's a beautiful thing.
Good luck getting that STI. I don't think you'll ever regret it. They hold their value well, and you will have good stories to tell your Grandkids.
In negotiations now, and our conversation began with an arbitrary confession that he wouldn't be able to find me an Obsidian Black Pearl!!
We're at $31.5k for the Crystal Grey... last night, thanks to the "interweb" and good ol' competition, I rounded up every Obsidian Black Pearl within a 500 mile radius, because I expected a number like that on the Crystal Grey...
He gave me that figure, and I explained that I'm not color blind based on his offer yet, so he could find a black at the following dealers...
Turns out, he's even good friends with the crew at one of them, and I could pick it up soon after doing the paper work with him (3 hours' drive), as he claimed getting it trucked to his dealership would cost me. I told him to use his special dealer discount on the Obsidian, and we've got a deal.
He's being honest, from what I've heard when they get the car from another dealer, that other dealer gets to keep the holdback (2% of the base invoice price for Subaru, last time I heard).
Though he might trade cars, and then it would be even. But there's still the transportation cost.
Yeah, it's an extremely fair price, I just want it on the black, so hopefully he comes through with trading the inventories. The Crystal Grey is his only STI in stock. I don't think I should be forced to cover the cost of him having his Crystal Grey shipped to the other dealer, as I've already agreed to drive 3 hours to pick up the black (saving either dealer a trip one way).
I'm hoping for a black, and to later purchase some white or silver STI decals to replace the factory red ones.
I'd be settling for the Crystal Grey if I were to purchase it, and I think I'd regret settling for it later... then again, being intoxicated by it's performance would be more blinding than the price he offered, heheh.
Ugh! Terrible update... we're at a standstill, he's unable to get a black without gold wheels, and gold wheels aren't my style.
He explained that he could get the black, but only with gold wheels, and only if I paid $500.00 more than the initial quote. Regardless, I'm willing to pay $32,000 for the car I want. However, I'm not going to pay $31,500 for a car with an external color schematic that I don't want.
I intend to own this car for the duration of it's useful life, it's got to be something I sincerely want... *sigh* So now he's attempting to contact other dealers who have black STIs with silver rims. Am I being too complicated here..?
I know I sound like a woman, but damn! This dealer is toying with my emotions!
Competition improves the breed. God bless the competition. The MS6 will surely force Subaru to put the 6 speed in the Spec B, maybe tweak output, who knows? It also brings prices down when you have choices and can buy elsewhere. It's a beautiful thing.
Thats why the auto industry is so much fun...for us anyways!
Well, the dealer backed out on the sale, he essentially told me that it wasn't worth his time to locate an STI with silver wheels from another dealer and sell it to me at that price... he gingerly explained that he would call me tonight if he found something, but stressed that he wasn't going to go out of his way.
I intend to call the dealer who is squatting on the black and silver wheels 200mi from my hometown, and let him know that i'm serious about purchasing the car and give him the dollar amount...
We'll see what happens... but from the looks of it, I'll be waiting awhile, because none of the black & silver STIs are near my home... this could be for the better, I've convinced myself that there is some cosmic reason I came so close to it without getting it *sigh*
I test drove a MazdaSpeed 6 two days ago and loved it! I had pretty much settled on a BMW 330xi or Acura TL, but really liked this car and love the price.
But, have a few questions/concerns (can anyone help?!): - I am mid-30's, will I be the only person under 25 driving this car? - Are Mazda's reliable? Will this one be with a turbo engine? - Anyway around the slightly cheesy antenna?
All mazdaspeed6's have the same 2.3 liter turbocharged engine. Mazdas are reliable just as most asian cars are, but they do not have the reputation like toyota and honda. Most of the major problems with mazda 6's have been bad 3.0 liter engines (as far as I have seen). the 2.3's have been relatively bulletproof thus far. Rule of thumb is never to buy a car in the first production year, but the speed 6 is a one year run so..... Dont like the antenna? Not much you can do about it, and any aftermarket antenna will probably look worse. I think you meant to say: "will I be the only person NOT under 25 driving this car?" Pretty sure you wont be....little pricey for the younger crowd....and my wife (35) will probably be getting one soon....
Comments
If they even ask about mileage, they're barking up the wrong tree.
Why? Audi's 2.0T gets 32 mpg. Performance and efficiency can go together, I'm not sure why you guys think they can't.
I haven't driven it myself, but since the tires specified for the MS6 are summer tires, I'd get a set of winter tires right away, while they're still available. If not, get some all-seasons.
Summer tires are dangerous in the cold and snow. Since they're geared toward summer conditions (warmer temperatures and rainy conditions), the tire compound gets tougher in colder temperatures, decreasing traction and flexibility. It's like riding and cornering on plastic hockey pucks. The tread isn't suited for the snow and ice either, causing one to lose control very easily compared to winter or all-seasons.
My suggestion is to buy a separate set of 17" winter tires and wheels. It saves the wear and tear or removing/replacing tires on those expensive 18" wheels twice a year, as well as saving them from exposure to the damaging road salt and sand. 17" tires are much less expensive as well. A wise idea is to hunt down a used set of the regular 6's 17" alloys, and get a set of 215/50-17 winter tires. The 16" wheels for the regular 6 do NOT clear the brakes, but the 17" do without any rubbing, and the tire size is the stock size for the regular 6, so you can't go wrong.
If you want an AWD sedan, the 2.0T is not going to deliver the level of performance you're talking about. It'll be adequate at best.
Besides, even if they did come out with that, if you drove around in the boost all the time, it still wouldn't be all that quick plus you'd get 22mpg if you're lucky.
-juice
my 01 2.7T A6 quattro was able to get thru anything with just all seasons. quattro is much more sophisticated than the Speed AWD but I'm hoping it will suffice.
The 2006 Audi 2.0T Quattro only has 200hp. My old 1998 Eclipse GS-T got in the mid-to-high 20's in milage. The MS6 is just to powerful to get good gas mileage. The STi is the same way.
The Audi Quattro is one of the best AWD systems, if not the best. Same can be said about Subaru. Mazda's is OK, and should be just fine with snow tires on it.
I read that for the new CX-7, Mazda has modified their AWD system to send 50% of torque to the rear wheels.
I bet the engine choice is why they went with AWD as well, surely parts-bin stuff from the Speed6.
-juice
is the cx7 full time split?
with the traction control and aggressive computer controls, I don't know if there can be a different torque split to each rear wheel if conditions warrant it. once i get my new car i'll be able to find out with all the sand that is spread around our roads.
my current RSX-S is having a fit with no slip differential in front. Aggressive driving and sand can be interesting.
Good choice, considering that's the tire they're using for the stock 6's 18" wheel option. Between those and the AWD, I'm sure they'll work just fine.
Its getting a de-tuned version of the MS6 2.3MZR DISI Turbo. I'm pretty sure it's pumping 244hp. It's also on the Mazda6 frame, the CD3 platform. It's an all Mazda vehicle. Ford took it, and they are using it.
I have not been able to find what type of AWD system it is. I wonder how it is different from the MS6. From what I've read, it sounds better.
Internationally a 2.0 Quattro exists. It's only the US we don't get it. From what I've read, Audi didn't want to certify it for use here...small market for hatchbacks and smaller still for AWD hatches.
If you want an AWD sedan, the 2.0T is not going to deliver the level of performance you're talking about. It'll be adequate at best.
ROFL The 2.0T in the A3 delivers over 200 HP (dynos show it has over 200 hp at wheels) and over 200 ft-lbs of torque from 1800-5k rpm. That's a far better and flatter torque curve on my 330i's 3.0. Additionally, one chip bumps the engine to 250 hp/300 ft-lbs or torque. That's more than adequate with the A3.
Besides, even if they did come out with that, if you drove around in the boost all the time, it still wouldn't be all that quick plus you'd get 22mpg if you're lucky.
You're always in the boost with Audi/VW's 2.0T. There is no turbo on/turbo off effect seen in cars like the WRX.
That's plain ludicrous. A Corvette with over 300 hp can get 30 mpg.
That is advertised MPG...i'm sure it's far less.
Or possibly higher. I get over 30 mpg with my car running over 95 mph. That is not unusual among german cars or cars that have proper freeway gearing.
The A4 quattro manual gets... 22/31. The A3 is lighter and uses the more efficient DSG.
http://www.audiusa.com/features_specifications/0,3523,bodyStyleId-1_contentType-- - 26,00.html?bodystyle=a4sedan&tab=specifications
They are sending the V6 Quattro, though. My point being Audi didn't think the 2.0FSI had enough grunt for US tastes when coupled with AWD.
Audi's decision, not mine.
Chips kill warranties, so I focus on what powertrains can do stock. The 1.8T had plenty of issues with ignition coils and I wouldn't want to open that can of worms with the newer, even more complex powertrain.
Also note I said sedan specifically, as in A4 Quattro. The A3 is a bit small to compete directly with the Speed6, though I know you compare the two for your needs.
-juice
BTW, I think 3.2 Q will end up in numerous vehicles. The 2.0 Q is only in the A4 and then only with the manual or lametronic.
Regardless, power and efficiency are both there in spades with the 2.0.
Perhaps because it had no AWD, LOL!
I'm curious to try the DSG as well.
-juice
My sincere conern is to how genuine the SPEED6 is in the performance section, as I've been a fan of WRC and the EVO/STI for the past 10 years, and I can finally afford the STI, and then there's the SPEED6, I'm just hoping to discuss the capabilities of each with someone who understands them better than I do.
Thanks, and sorry to derail/hijack the thread.
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STI is an extreme car, in a good and bad way.
Yes, the Speed6 also has summer tires, but the STI has a very stiff suspension and is really more of a single-purpose, focused car.
I have not driven a Speed6 to compare them directly, but C&D just did in the Feb issue, and it didn't score so well. Performance was great, though, but I guess they didn't think it did so well in other areas.
The STI is like that, only more so. How far are you willing to compromise to get the absolute best driving experience? Be honest with yourself, I can't answer that for you.
I have kids, so I'd need two booster seats in the back. That almost seems silly in an STI. So I'd opt for a Legacy GT or Speed6, personally.
But if I had no kids, well, that would be different.
-juice
It's all about what YOU as a consumer are looking for in a vehicle. It would be my recommendation to experience BOTH cars, and come to your OWN conclusion. Since YOU are the one to shell out $30K for a vehicle, make sure before you sign the dotted line, you are leaving with what you really want.
I have not driven a Speed6 to compare them directly, but C&D just did in the Feb issue, and it didn't score so well. Performance was great, though, but I guess they didn't think it did so well in other areas.
To be fair to the MS6, C&D had problems with the lack of creature comforts, specifically, no moonroof or leather. Of course, they had a sport, which is the lower of the two models. The GS has the leather standard, and the moonroof is optional, as well as GPS.
They were also looking for the best all-around car for the price, comparing the MS6 against the Pontiac G6, Honda Accord V6, Acura TSX, and VW Jetta GLI. The MS6 blew the doors off each of them. If you're looking at the STi as well, any of these cars aren't on your list, I'm sure...
The STI is like that, only more so. How far are you willing to compromise to get the absolute best driving experience? Be honest with yourself, I can't answer that for you.
Absolutely! I've sat in both cars (STi and MS6 GS). The fit and finish of the MS6 was far superior, with higher quality materials, and smoother controls. The STi in comparison is rough around the edges, very raw, knowing it's single purpose is to astonish it's driver with it's abilities.
IMO, if you want raw power and handling, without compromises, the STi (or the EVO) is your choice. If you're willing to give up 0.8 seconds to 60 MPH (or more), for a larger car with more creature comforts, the MS6 is for you.
-juice
Me, personally, it would be AWD vehicles with a lot of HP that I compare it to. And then, the price.
This is what is so fun about the automotive industry. Every manufacturer trying to put out a cutting edge product that has car enthusiasts around the world going crazy to get their hands on them.
The 6S sedan with manual should've been the obvious choice to have in that comparo, and it would've done much better than 4th, even if it couldn't keep up with the Accord in 0-60 and quarter mile times. It would've put the G6 and TSX to shame, and given the VW a run for 1st place in the comparo. At that price, the only thing it would lack would be the Nav, but I hate those things anyway, and it'd include the "all-important" leather and moonroof that the old farts at C&D now seem to require in their Buicks... oops, I mean daily drivers!
Between the five choices for me... MS6 by a landslide, followed by the Accord V6, GLI, TSX, G6.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=10398
FWIW, the AWD system in the MS6 is one of the worst implementations I've ever heard of. The power should default to the rear with up to 50% going to the front (ideally 100% should be able to go front to rear and rear to front, but whatever). The acceleration and cornering of the car would be greatly improved if it was RWD biased.
Harder and more sporting, yes....more luxurious then the regular 6, not really....the smart key system is the only real difference, and center console finish. Other then that, every interior appointment is the same at a Grand Touring M6, or a Grand Sport M6. i.e. leather, heated seats, heated mirrors, electroelumenecent gauges, power seat.
Okay, this post will enclose my final decision between the MS6 and the STI. I'll give a brief history of my situation, which should quickly prompt you guys to my purchasing decision.
I'm 24 (with six months to 25), and I can afford the insurance for either, as I intend to pay it up front, I finished college in May 2005, and I was fortunate enough to find a good job, and I've never splurged on myself for much of anything before (I drive a friggin' 1997 Saturn right now). I'm finally making money and decided to pursue a nearly 12 year long dream of mine... an EVO/STI.
Until now, I've always been inspired by the EVO and loathed the "bug eyes" of the STI (I know, it's what so many have come to love). Every year, I've seen magazines typically hand their trophy to the EVO while casually stating that it could have gone to either. I'm fortunate enough that I wasn't able to purchase either of the two cars until the arms race was so fierce that the STI was forced to produce a whopping 2.5L beast!
With this came the fact that I've been dating a 29 year old gal for 4 years now, and she's looking for marriage, house etc. She, as one would expect, is not terribly fond of the STI's styling cues, etc. She could care less about performance. She owns a 2006 RX-8, which she bought... guess why!! For pure styling... so she was buzzing in my ear about the Mazda, so I took it for a test drive yesterday. It was exhilarating, but it felt quirky and awkward, especially when I was going 90 on the interstate, it seemed that whether I was in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear, the car ran incredibly high RPMs for the interstate portion of my test drive. I never really laid into the vehicle to test it's limits, but I found it fun, and very luxurious and refined (I'm a 24 year old who has driven a Saturn SC2 for the past 7 years, and spent 5 of those years in school and working to pay the damned thing off!). While it was refined, and able to haul some pretty nice butt, I found myself torn. I had driven an STI before, but for no more than a 2 mile stretch, up and down a straight street... so being able to take the Mazda through some nice twisties at about 65, I enjoyed myself. The little extras (nifty little remote and keyless ignition system) are nice, but didn't make up for the lack of raw speed, and the fact that in the back of my mind, I was concerned with the fraudulent proclamation of 4WD... my dream cars have actual 4WS with a true 50/50.
Well, that was yesterday, and I was happy with it, and today, I went to my neighborhood Subaru, stepped into a white STI with gold rims and 75 miles on it, and I was instructed to haul butt onto the interstate (merging using a complete 180 loop - thank god, because this is when my heart shed a tear of solemn comfort that God intended for me to be born at the precise time that would allow for this unadulterated beast to roar at my command). Well, I merged into traffic, and heard the beast roar through 4th gear, and fly through it as if it was the second gear of the puny 2 door box I'd been forced to endure for the past 7 years. This, my friends, was escapism at it's finest, brought to me by 4 supple compounded tires, and a diamond of an engine/exhaust/suspension combo. AMAZING.
I'm currently on vacation, but I fly home on the 31st, and I've been in casual negotiations with about 6 Subaru dealers over the past month, and today, one offered me 2% off of INVOICE to take their last STI off of their hands (luckily, the one in my home town).
The color is not to my liking, as it is the Crystal Grey Metallic, and I intend to purchase the Obsidian Black Pearl. The gentleman explained over the phone that he would call me tomorrow morning with a price that would make even the most discerning customer color blind. I told him that for me to go grey over black, it would have to be a price that will make the finance manager of his dealership come to tears.
If it's my dream car, it comes in black, but depending on how this price war works out, I might be driving a Crystal Grey Metallic 2006 WRX STI on December 31st, when I step off of my plane!
Wish me luck guys & gals, come tomorrow I will begin the pruchase of either a black or crystal grey, and soon I will be a bona fide member of the Subaru Techinica International civilian donkey race team (as my best friend so eloquently phrased it).
One more question, can I get some good recommendations for rally driving schools in the Southeast United States? I am new to 4WD, and new to anything more than 100+/-20bhp. I want to invest in my own capabilities to insure against myself being the cause of any errors while I learn to tame and respect the object of my adolescent, teen, and now young adult affections.
I will keep ya'll posted as to how this all plays out, and which color and options I end up with.
***If there are any recommendations as to options I should seek to have added to the vehicle, please inform me, as it would be greatly appreciated. The Crystal Grey comes with the short throw shifter, and the autodimming mirror w/ compass. I'll let you know the "color blinding" offer he makes me tomorrow afternoon!
Thanks again for everything you guys had to offer in your replies! I look forward to being a member of the community here! And if anyone has questions about the mazda Speed6, I drove it for about 30 minutes yesterday, so feel free to ask. It was fun, and if I had kids, this would be a no brainer, but lucky for me, my g/f and I are about 5 years from even considering wanting children, so this will work out great for me!
Sorry for length, just a smidgeon excited at the moment!
John
John
I was responding to someone else! I wouldn't compare the MS6 to the STI unless someone asked me to.
Then again, many here don't think the MS6 should be compared to the 2wd G35, A4, 2wd 325i, 2wd IS250, Legacy GT, etc. To me the MS6 has AWD only because it must or it'd be stuck with lousy FWD. I see the price, pseudo-luxury and performance, thus the cars I mentioned came to mind. Compared to all those, the IS250, Legacy and A4 lose out to the MS6.
I hadn't actualized my desire for sheer performance over luxury and comfort until I was behind the wheel of the STI, accelerating into a large loop, being pressed more BACK into the seat, as opposed to being pushed out of it along the apex of the turn... this might all be common for you guys, but it's a phenomenon to me. I look forward to it being the norm.
The two cars probably don't compare, it's apples and oranges, but based on the specs on paper, I couldn't help but test drive the mazda. If the STI didn't exist, I'd be in love with the mazda, heheh... just makes me wish there was a third car that could compare to the performance quality found in the STI... competition is great for us consumers!
Still, with a TPS (throttle position sensor) it can send power to the rear axle as soon as you hit the gas. Volvo's system is pretty quick and I'd bet this one is, too.
Competition improves the breed. God bless the competition. The MS6 will surely force Subaru to put the 6 speed in the Spec B, maybe tweak output, who knows? It also brings prices down when you have choices and can buy elsewhere. It's a beautiful thing.
Good luck getting that STI. I don't think you'll ever regret it. They hold their value well, and you will have good stories to tell your Grandkids.
-juice
We're at $31.5k for the Crystal Grey... last night, thanks to the "interweb" and good ol' competition, I rounded up every Obsidian Black Pearl within a 500 mile radius, because I expected a number like that on the Crystal Grey...
He gave me that figure, and I explained that I'm not color blind based on his offer yet, so he could find a black at the following dealers...
Turns out, he's even good friends with the crew at one of them, and I could pick it up soon after doing the paper work with him (3 hours' drive), as he claimed getting it trucked to his dealership would cost me. I told him to use his special dealer discount on the Obsidian, and we've got a deal.
Waiting to hear from em'!
Though he might trade cars, and then it would be even. But there's still the transportation cost.
-juice
I'm hoping for a black, and to later purchase some white or silver STI decals to replace the factory red ones.
I'd be settling for the Crystal Grey if I were to purchase it, and I think I'd regret settling for it later... then again, being intoxicated by it's performance would be more blinding than the price he offered, heheh.
He explained that he could get the black, but only with gold wheels, and only if I paid $500.00 more than the initial quote. Regardless, I'm willing to pay $32,000 for the car I want. However, I'm not going to pay $31,500 for a car with an external color schematic that I don't want.
I intend to own this car for the duration of it's useful life, it's got to be something I sincerely want... *sigh* So now he's attempting to contact other dealers who have black STIs with silver rims. Am I being too complicated here..?
I know I sound like a woman, but damn! This dealer is toying with my emotions!
Thats why the auto industry is so much fun...for us anyways!
I intend to call the dealer who is squatting on the black and silver wheels 200mi from my hometown, and let him know that i'm serious about purchasing the car and give him the dollar amount...
We'll see what happens... but from the looks of it, I'll be waiting awhile, because none of the black & silver STIs are near my home... this could be for the better, I've convinced myself that there is some cosmic reason I came so close to it without getting it *sigh*
John
But, have a few questions/concerns (can anyone help?!):
- I am mid-30's, will I be the only person under 25 driving this car?
- Are Mazda's reliable? Will this one be with a turbo engine?
- Anyway around the slightly cheesy antenna?
Thanks!
Agbasher
Dont like the antenna? Not much you can do about it, and any aftermarket antenna will probably look worse.
I think you meant to say: "will I be the only person NOT under 25 driving this car?" Pretty sure you wont be....little pricey for the younger crowd....and my wife (35) will probably be getting one soon....