The pictures that are posting on edmund's spy shot is almost identical with Toyota, Crown series in Japanese Market http://toyota.jp/crownroyal/exterior/garally/index.html If this is taken in North America, it could be an indication that toyota is planning to replace "Window" as ES330 with "Crown Series" from Japan.
I agree, it looks a lot more like the Mark X. The Front of the Toyota Crown looks more like a Lexus LS to me. I love the Mark X ehaust pipes, do you think they'll have it on the Camry... probably not but you never know.
The grill in the spy shot is too big, too long and too boxy to be a Mark X. Beside, Mark X is position as upscale and racy level of Camry in Asian market with virtually the same size. It will not make any sense for Toyota to bring it to its North American Market. But the next generation Camry could share its platform somehow, because Mark X is built on a new generation of Toyota mid-size FF platform.
Thanks boss! I just report what I've read on this and other forums, and use a bit of Toyota knowledge to make a few assumptions.
Hope you have a great Fourth!
~alpha
PS- I dont necessarily think the Mark or the Crown are the basis for the styling of the next Camry. Everyone said the Crown was going to be what the next Avalon looked like, and well... not so much.
The Mark X is basically a new Cressida, which the Avalon replaced years ago here in the U.S. Furthermore, the Mark X's "X-Body" platform is shared with the 2006 Lexus GS, 2006 Lexus IS, and is a RWD/AWD platform ONLY. It will only be used in the Lexus lineup.
The 2007 Camry is based on the FWD/AWD (Japan only) 5th Generation Camry chassis, which in 2002, was designed from the ground up. The Camry chassis lasts 10-15 years depending on the introduction of Camry platform based variants like: the Avalon, the Highlander/RX330/400h, and Solara. The 2005 Avalon uses a lengthened 5th generation Camry platform, whereas the 2000-2004 Avalon used a lengthened 4th generation Camry platform. The 4th generation Camry platform was a carryover from the previous 3rd generation, but was modified slightly to increase the Camry's size. See the pattern?
The Crown is one notch below the Celsior ( Japanese version of the LS 430 ) and one notch above the Windom ( ES 300/330 in Japan ). I doubt the next generation Camry will be based on either the Crown or Mark X platform since both of those cars are RWD.
Does anybody think the 2007 camry would have a manumatic? (Shiftronic...etc, whatever you'd like to call it) Also, I have a car with that right now, I often wondered if I put it into the manual mode, would that save gas compared to leaving it in automatic mode especially on the highway. Anyone out there know?
It's still pretty rare to see manumatics in the transportation-class midsize sedans, and besides they are designed for sporty shifting, where the Camry really does not have "sport" anywhere in its design portfolio. I suppose maybe the SE could eventually have one...but I doubt there will be one across the board for Camry in '07.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That comment I made was half-sarcastic. I do like it how Ford wears their new cars on their sleeves, so to speak. That's about it, though.
I don't know about a manumatic. I think that the only one in the Toyota portfolio is a six-speeder that is going into Lexus models (but I really don't know). I wouldn't rule out a six speed auto though. Or a manumatic for the SE. I liked the manumatic in the MR2 Spyder.....
The 2005 Avalon uses a manumatic with the same 5 speed automatic transmission as the Camry V6's, the U151E. Granted, it's axle ratio was modified for a more powerful V6, but I'd expect a manumatic in all Camry trims.
The MR2 Spyder used a sequential manual transmission, which is quite different from a shiftable automatic. SMT/SMG's use computers to actuate the clutch, and it doesn't shift automatically.. It also doesn't use a torque converter like automatics do.
Avalon is not the volume seller that Camry is. In a high volume model, you have to keep the costs down to keep the price down, hence it seems to me it is unlikely that all Camrys will get one. Maybe the V-6s, or just the SE's, or something like that.
Something called a "sport edition" really SHOULD have a manumatic IMO.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Something called a "sport edition" really SHOULD have a manumatic IMO."
The "sport edition" does have a real manual available for those who like to shift - (at least on the 4-cyl model) so why bother with a manumatic. A real manual also has the added benefit of actually making the car faster - another important consideration for a "sport edition". Maybe there should be a manual option on the V-6.
Thanks Motown! Appreciate your input. It would be interesting to see the smae powertrain as the 400H; I nearly came close to getting the RX and the only reason I walked away at the last moment was because my ML felt much better on the road. But, I would take the 330+hybrid for a daily driver anyday!! Thanks again!! Cheers, NJEXPRESS!
""The "sport edition" does have a real manual available for those who like to shift - (at least on the 4-cyl model) so why bother with a manumatic.""
Manumatics are nice, and there is a whole thread somewhere in N&V about their (un)usefullness.
The HP range on normal Camry's should be about 165-260 hp. That's just what I think will happen. The hybrid system, is it going to be the same one in the RX400h? I have reason to believe that it may not be.
94 Camry, 130k miles with an oil leak. The leak will probably run $400-$500 to fix if it's coming from the main rear seal which this vintage and mileage Camrys usually develop that repair around that time. Trade in value is around $2000-2500.00 you could probably sell it for around $3500.00 or $3000.00
Good to hear from you, mackabee. I live not too far from you, in Charlottesville, VA. I wanted the 4-cylinder for gas and initial cost savings. Power and acceleration is good enough for me. I got the XLE for the power passenger seat, to suit my wife who has trouble staying comfortable on long trips.
"The "sport edition" does have a real manual available for those who like to shift - (at least on the 4-cyl model) so why bother with a manumatic."
Oh sure it does....in theory. This is Toyota you are dealing with. The total of three manual shift Camrys they ever built probably rolled off the line early in 2002, and everything has been automatic ever since.
"Maybe there should be a manual option on the V-6."
*choking*
This is TOYOTA you are talking about. Matching a 6-cylinder engine with a stick shift in a passenger car is, like, taboo or heresy or something. They will DEFINITELY put in a manumatic before they make a stick shift available in the V-6, I am sure. And the day is coming soon when they will drop all stick shifts from the Camry line forever.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
You make good points, but all 5 years of the last gen Camry offered V6/5M.
And theres usually one or two LE or SE 5Ms on the lots at the local bigger dealers around here, at any given time. An SE 5M is an incredible deal, IMO, but I've never seen one of those with side airbags, and in 2005, theres no way I'd buy a car without em.
I couldn't believe it, but I actually saw with my own two eyes a 5-speed manual 2004 Camry SE on the local dealer's lot last year about the time the 2005s were coming out.
When we were contemplating a manual in our 1997 Camry 4-cylinder, the dealer located two in the entire state of Virginia, one black and one white. Our thinking was to save some dough by getting the base CE model with a manual tranny, plus optional A/C, ABS, and cruise. We thought we could handle crank windows and manual locks.
Well, that combination wasn't going to happen, so we went with the mainstream LE automatic, which in that year had standard a/c, cruise, and ABS.
Manual Camrys are rare, but the are definately out there. The local Toyota dealer here never has more than about 3-4 Camrys at a time, but they have a manual right now, and they had another one a few months ago - it only lasted a few days before it sold.
I also noticed that there are half a dozen of them on the darcars website.
Not related, but of interest. The local dealer also has a Prius that is just sitting on the lot. This is truck country (SD) so cars do not sell so well.
Thanks Mackabee. I should have asked you about the leak itself before I spent hundreds of dollars and three mechanics trying to fix it before I found one who was honest with me. Its a shame because I spent over $1000.00 and I still have the leak.
Toyota discontinued the Camry LE/Solara SE V6 manual offerings in 2001 (2002 model year) because of slow sales. Of all the Camry sales from 1997-2001, only 1% were V6 manuals. That's why Toyota doesn't find it feasible to make them anymore. If you want that, you'd have to go to Australia and get a RHD Camry Sportivo V6.
Generally, I prefer a manual over automatics because of maintenance, longetivity, and the "fun to drive" factor. Automatics require too many fluid changes, IMO. This is especially true for those of us that live in hilly areas, and where temperatures reach the extremes (hot and cold). Obviously, automatics generate more heat than their manual counterparts, hence why the fluid breaks down faster.
Be aware though, Toyota switched automatic transmission fluids for new automatic models (2005+ Camry models, among others). It's called WS automatic transmission fluid, or World Standard. You can no longer check the status of your automatic transmission fluid with a dipstick. Instead, it's checked like a manual tranmission at the filler plug. Supposedly, there isn't a set change interval, unless you're under the severe driving schedule or you specifically ask the dealer to change it for rough shifting.
The 2007 Camry Hybrid should have about 270hp and similar torque. This will put it just under the horsepower rating of the Avalon. I expect the 3MZ-FE, 3.3L, to produce about 250hp in non-hybrid form, and the 2AZ-FE, 2.4L, to produce about 180hp. Direct injection will play a role in increased performance and economy. So expect more power, and more MPG.
My 2004 Camry, which I just gave to my son, uses Toyota ATF Type T-IV fluid, which is checked via dipstick. My 2005 Camry also has a dipstick, and I would assume uses the same fluid, although the 5-speed auto has now replaced the 4-speed version (both cars have 4-cylinder engines).
Funny thing about Toyota statistics. Toyota can claim that for the entire run, only 1% were V6 manuals, BUT, that's because TOYOTA chose to build only 1% as manuals. TOYOTA elected to limit the run, not the market.
I guarantee you, had Toyota decided to buidt 5% as V6 manuals, again, all of them would have been sold. People love Toyotas and Hondas and with few exceptions will generally buy anything those two companies manufacture. One can do an Autotrader search of 2002 Solara V6 manuals (the last year they were built) for the entire country and all you come up with is one or two. I know people that have driven 1,000 miles to find a good used V6 stick Toyota. Further, I don't recall seing any UNSOLD new V6 manuals on any dealer's lot! So, to say the demand isn't there IMHO seems rediculous.
Toyota does what it wants, when it wants and it appears that it as a company dictates what the customer wants, not the other way around. For example, Toyota makes it practically impossible to purchase a Highlander with side airbags unless the customer steps up to a Limited. Do customers still buy the base model? Yes; Begrudgingly, but yes because without spending an additional $5,000 they have no choice if they want a Highlander. Ostensibly, Toyota makes these determinations for pricing/marketing reasons but does it make sense? Not to the buying public. Similarly, Toyota builds 4 cylinder Camrys and Solaras with MANUALS, but here again, for wothless reassons: price bragging rights (obvioulsy for what other reason would there be to build the car IF no one is buying manuals?). Would a person buying a stick prefer the 6 over the 4 even with the price differential? Of course! But Toyota bean counters see it differently. Again, it appears to me that no one can tell Toyota what to do or what the customer prefers. Whom they use for their marketing studies, escapes me.
Unfortunately, there really isn't much of a demand for them. All manufacturers are making less of them available (not just Toyota). With very few individuals wanting one, resell values on standards can’t be very good. All manufacturers are giving a huge majority of the buying public what they want, automatics. Options are another story.
Actually I only buy sticks and I much prefer the 4 to the 6. A 4 with a stick is almost as fast as an automatic 6, and is much cheaper, much more fun to drive, hundreds of pounds lighter, and gets much better gas mileage.
I do think they should make the 6 available though.
The new Toyota V6s are actually pretty light, and the difference between the current 4 cylinders and the older vintage V6s is about 180lbs, not as dramatic a difference as you state.
Why are 4s more fun to drive? Im not disagreeing, just curious.
The v-6 weighs between 3340 (LE) and 3450 (SE). The Standard Camry is 3108 with a manual. That is a substantial difference of 232 lbs minimum and up to 342 lbs. Most of this extra weight is over the front wheels, which hampers handling.
The 4 with a stick is more fun to drive than a V-6 because the V-6 is only available with an automatic and it is too nose heavy, and not as nimble.
Anytime comparisons are made, its a good idea to level the playing field. Holding optional equipment and transaxle constant, the difference from an LE 4 5A (3164 lbs) to an LE V6 5A (3340 lbs) is 176lbs. This is a DIRECT comparison that isolates the only variable in question, the V6 engine. The only assertion I made was that the V6 really isnt terribly heavier than the 4, given its extra 50 horses and and 57 foot pounds of torque.
Yea, the difference from a stripper 5M Camry Standard to the 3.3L V6 SE 5A is 342 lbs, but what point does that prove since equipment and transmission are different, in addition to the engine?
Regarding actual acceleration times, Car and Driver's test figures put the
2002 157 hp Camry SE 5M 0-60 8.3 seconds Long-Term 2002 192 hp 4A Camry SE V6 0-60 7.9 seconds
The Camry SE V6 with 225 hp hasnt been tested yet, nor has the upgraded 210 horse 5A Camry XLE/LE V6. However, the Solara SE Sport V6 was tested at 6.9 seconds to 60, with similar weight and same transmission as the Camry SE V6.
So is the current Camry 4 cylinder 5M as quick as the Camry 3.0L V6? Not quite, though it would likely FEEL similar. Is the Camry 4 cylinder 5M as quick as the Camry 3.3L V6? Not even close.
But, my point was that a V-6 automatic was much heavier than a 5-speed manual 4-cyl, and it is. I could care less about the difference in weight between the engines.
I also did not say it was as quick, just that it was nearly as quick. 7.9 to 8.3 is pretty darn close. As far as the Solara goes - apples to apples. It is a different car (very similar of course), and Car and Driver got the Solara to 60 in 7.3 seconds (only number I found from them) - gotta use the same source for acceleration numbers.
Getting back to the 2007 Camry it will probably have a nice power gain for the 4-cyl to match the Accord which is supposed to be bumped up to 170 this fall.
I think manuals feel quicker than they are because of the direct connection (clutch) to the wheels. There's a reason people refer to the automatic trans as a "slushbox."
Having said that, I think a lot of people don't want a manual in a car the size of the Camry (and most don't want a manual, period) which is why the install rate is so low and why they're aren't offered at all on the sedans (currently.)
The 7.9 sec is the 2002 Camry SE V6 which only had 192 hp. The 2005 Camry SE V6 has 225 hp- nobody has tested the latest Camry SE V6 (atleast not Car and Driver). I dont think the numbers are close with the 225 hp engine.
Toyota builds what the market demands, and many people view manuals as a nuisance rather than a pleasure. When you consider the rest of the population, excluding auto enthusiasts, you'll find that when people look for a mid-sized sedan with a V6, they're looking for more luxury and convenience rather than price - and that doesn't include a manual transmission. Let's face it: manuals are for people that like to drive, and nowadays, most people neither have the time nor the desire to drive leisurely. Nor do they want to shift and watch the kids at the same time.
Case in point: Nissan is also having trouble selling its Altima 3.5 V6 manuals to customers as well. Many dealers have them on order status only since they don't move off the lots fast enough.
Now when it comes to sporty coupes, manuals are more welcome. Like the Scion tC: 60% from the factory are manuals, while the remaining 40% are automatics.
You don't recall seeing any unsold V6 manuals on the lot because Toyota already scaled back their yearly sales figures for V6 manuals. If they were a hit, Toyota would've ramped up production, much like they're doing with the hybrids. Trust me, I wish they sold more because I plan on putting the 1MZ in my MR2, and I have to source a V6 manual at a junkyard. It's not an easy task either, but I found some.
Many auto companies do their market research, and they find that demand for manuals is waning for mid-sized family sedans. Honda offers a 6-spd manual on the Accord Coupe, and those are extremely hard to find on any lot. I've never even seen one at the Toyota/Honda dealership I regularly visit. They also knew that it'd be futile to offer it on a sedan.
FYI: Manuals make up around 9% of current US sales. I am sure it approaches 0 if the car size was included. Some of this pattern is driven by supply but I bet most of that is driven by the demand side...
Comments
http://toyota.jp/crownroyal/exterior/garally/index.html
If this is taken in North America, it could be an indication that toyota is planning to replace "Window" as ES330 with "Crown Series" from Japan.
Alpha is RARELY wrong about things...so I'm agreeing with him
See?
Hope you have a great Fourth!
~alpha
PS- I dont necessarily think the Mark or the Crown are the basis for the styling of the next Camry. Everyone said the Crown was going to be what the next Avalon looked like, and well... not so much.
The 2007 Camry is based on the FWD/AWD (Japan only) 5th Generation Camry chassis, which in 2002, was designed from the ground up. The Camry chassis lasts 10-15 years depending on the introduction of Camry platform based variants like: the Avalon, the Highlander/RX330/400h, and Solara. The 2005 Avalon uses a lengthened 5th generation Camry platform, whereas the 2000-2004 Avalon used a lengthened 4th generation Camry platform. The 4th generation Camry platform was a carryover from the previous 3rd generation, but was modified slightly to increase the Camry's size. See the pattern?
I think that Toyota should be more obvious about their new models. Like Ford.
I think the computer is probably smarter than you are (no offense ) so leaving it in auto mode will probaby produce the best results.
It's still pretty rare to see manumatics in the transportation-class midsize sedans, and besides they are designed for sporty shifting, where the Camry really does not have "sport" anywhere in its design portfolio. I suppose maybe the SE could eventually have one...but I doubt there will be one across the board for Camry in '07.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That comment I made was half-sarcastic. I do like it how Ford wears their new cars on their sleeves, so to speak. That's about it, though.
I don't know about a manumatic. I think that the only one in the Toyota portfolio is a six-speeder that is going into Lexus models (but I really don't know). I wouldn't rule out a six speed auto though. Or a manumatic for the SE. I liked the manumatic in the MR2 Spyder.....
The MR2 Spyder used a sequential manual transmission, which is quite different from a shiftable automatic. SMT/SMG's use computers to actuate the clutch, and it doesn't shift automatically.. It also doesn't use a torque converter like automatics do.
Something called a "sport edition" really SHOULD have a manumatic IMO.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is that really the new Camry body style? Anybody have any mechanical info, such as engines and transmissions, or other specs?
Good looking pics and the car in the pictures is a knockout...whatever it is. Looks like a "near Avalon".
The "sport edition" does have a real manual available for those who like to shift - (at least on the 4-cyl model) so why bother with a manumatic. A real manual also has the added benefit of actually making the car faster - another important consideration for a "sport edition". Maybe there should be a manual option on the V-6.
Thanks again!!
Cheers,
NJEXPRESS!
Manumatics are nice, and there is a whole thread somewhere in N&V about their (un)usefullness.
The HP range on normal Camry's should be about 165-260 hp. That's just what I think will happen. The hybrid system, is it going to be the same one in the RX400h? I have reason to believe that it may not be.
The Camry's mechanical layout and size are similar to the Highlander and Lexus RX SUVs
Mackabee
Mackabee
Being an insider, have you heard anything about the 07 Camry redesign?
Thanks!
~alpha
Oh sure it does....in theory. This is Toyota you are dealing with. The total of three manual shift Camrys they ever built probably rolled off the line early in 2002, and everything has been automatic ever since.
"Maybe there should be a manual option on the V-6."
*choking*
This is TOYOTA you are talking about. Matching a 6-cylinder engine with a stick shift in a passenger car is, like, taboo or heresy or something. They will DEFINITELY put in a manumatic before they make a stick shift available in the V-6, I am sure. And the day is coming soon when they will drop all stick shifts from the Camry line forever.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And theres usually one or two LE or SE 5Ms on the lots at the local bigger dealers around here, at any given time. An SE 5M is an incredible deal, IMO, but I've never seen one of those with side airbags, and in 2005, theres no way I'd buy a car without em.
~alpha
When we were contemplating a manual in our 1997 Camry 4-cylinder, the dealer located two in the entire state of Virginia, one black and one white. Our thinking was to save some dough by getting the base CE model with a manual tranny, plus optional A/C, ABS, and cruise. We thought we could handle crank windows and manual locks.
Well, that combination wasn't going to happen, so we went with the mainstream LE automatic, which in that year had standard a/c, cruise, and ABS.
I also noticed that there are half a dozen of them on the darcars website.
Not related, but of interest. The local dealer also has a Prius that is just sitting on the lot. This is truck country (SD) so cars do not sell so well.
Generally, I prefer a manual over automatics because of maintenance, longetivity, and the "fun to drive" factor. Automatics require too many fluid changes, IMO. This is especially true for those of us that live in hilly areas, and where temperatures reach the extremes (hot and cold). Obviously, automatics generate more heat than their manual counterparts, hence why the fluid breaks down faster.
Be aware though, Toyota switched automatic transmission fluids for new automatic models (2005+ Camry models, among others). It's called WS automatic transmission fluid, or World Standard. You can no longer check the status of your automatic transmission fluid with a dipstick. Instead, it's checked like a manual tranmission at the filler plug. Supposedly, there isn't a set change interval, unless you're under the severe driving schedule or you specifically ask the dealer to change it for rough shifting.
The 2007 Camry Hybrid should have about 270hp and similar torque. This will put it just under the horsepower rating of the Avalon. I expect the 3MZ-FE, 3.3L, to produce about 250hp in non-hybrid form, and the 2AZ-FE, 2.4L, to produce about 180hp. Direct injection will play a role in increased performance and economy. So expect more power, and more MPG.
I guarantee you, had Toyota decided to buidt 5% as V6 manuals, again, all of them would have been sold. People love Toyotas and Hondas and with few exceptions will generally buy anything those two companies manufacture. One can do an Autotrader search of 2002 Solara V6 manuals (the last year they were built) for the entire country and all you come up with is one or two. I know people that have driven 1,000 miles to find a good used V6 stick Toyota. Further, I don't recall seing any UNSOLD new V6 manuals on any dealer's lot! So, to say the demand isn't there IMHO seems rediculous.
Toyota does what it wants, when it wants and it appears that it as a company dictates what the customer wants, not the other way around. For example, Toyota makes it practically impossible to purchase a Highlander with side airbags unless the customer steps up to a Limited. Do customers still buy the base model? Yes; Begrudgingly, but yes because without spending an additional $5,000 they have no choice if they want a Highlander. Ostensibly, Toyota makes these determinations for pricing/marketing reasons but does it make sense? Not to the buying public. Similarly, Toyota builds 4 cylinder Camrys and Solaras with MANUALS, but here again, for wothless reassons: price bragging rights (obvioulsy for what other reason would there be to build the car IF no one is buying manuals?). Would a person buying a stick prefer the 6 over the 4 even with the price differential? Of course! But Toyota bean counters see it differently. Again, it appears to me that no one can tell Toyota what to do or what the customer prefers. Whom they use for their marketing studies, escapes me.
That's why some people buy a Honda...
Someone who has figured out what makes the top selling car in the country for many years in a row.
I do think they should make the 6 available though.
Why are 4s more fun to drive? Im not disagreeing, just curious.
~alpha
The 4 with a stick is more fun to drive than a V-6 because the V-6 is only available with an automatic and it is too nose heavy, and not as nimble.
Is it really?
Yea, the difference from a stripper 5M Camry Standard to the 3.3L V6 SE 5A is 342 lbs, but what point does that prove since equipment and transmission are different, in addition to the engine?
Regarding actual acceleration times, Car and Driver's test figures put the
2002 157 hp Camry SE 5M 0-60 8.3 seconds
Long-Term 2002 192 hp 4A Camry SE V6 0-60 7.9 seconds
The Camry SE V6 with 225 hp hasnt been tested yet, nor has the upgraded 210 horse 5A Camry XLE/LE V6. However, the Solara SE Sport V6 was tested at 6.9 seconds to 60, with similar weight and same transmission as the Camry SE V6.
So is the current Camry 4 cylinder 5M as quick as the Camry 3.0L V6? Not quite, though it would likely FEEL similar. Is the Camry 4 cylinder 5M as quick as the Camry 3.3L V6? Not even close.
~alpha
I also did not say it was as quick, just that it was nearly as quick. 7.9 to 8.3 is pretty darn close. As far as the Solara goes - apples to apples. It is a different car (very similar of course), and Car and Driver got the Solara to 60 in 7.3 seconds (only number I found from them) - gotta use the same source for acceleration numbers.
Getting back to the 2007 Camry it will probably have a nice power gain for the 4-cyl to match the Accord which is supposed to be bumped up to 170 this fall.
Having said that, I think a lot of people don't want a manual in a car the size of the Camry (and most don't want a manual, period) which is why the install rate is so low and why they're aren't offered at all on the sedans (currently.)
Curb weight: 3500 lbs (actually 50 lbs heavier than the Camry SE V6 5A)
0-60: 6.9 seconds.
Theres no difference in the powertrains, so Im pretty sure a Camry 4 door would clock VERY similar numbers.
I understand your point, Im simply saying that a lot of V6s are necessarily that much heavier than their 4 cylinder counterparts.
~alpha
Case in point: Nissan is also having trouble selling its Altima 3.5 V6 manuals to customers as well. Many dealers have them on order status only since they don't move off the lots fast enough.
Now when it comes to sporty coupes, manuals are more welcome. Like the Scion tC: 60% from the factory are manuals, while the remaining 40% are automatics.
You don't recall seeing any unsold V6 manuals on the lot because Toyota already scaled back their yearly sales figures for V6 manuals. If they were a hit, Toyota would've ramped up production, much like they're doing with the hybrids. Trust me, I wish they sold more because I plan on putting the 1MZ in my MR2, and I have to source a V6 manual at a junkyard. It's not an easy task either, but I found some.
Many auto companies do their market research, and they find that demand for manuals is waning for mid-sized family sedans. Honda offers a 6-spd manual on the Accord Coupe, and those are extremely hard to find on any lot. I've never even seen one at the Toyota/Honda dealership I regularly visit. They also knew that it'd be futile to offer it on a sedan.