We've been looking at the Odyssey and Sienna for over 2 months and have been waiting for the '05 Odyssey to come out before making a decision. (The very limited availability of '04 Siennas also played into this). I found this forum today and spent over 2 hrs reading the 200+ posts--very informative. We are leaning towards the Sienna, but have one issue that to my surprise has not been mentioned. My wife can't stand the cheap, plastic inside door handles on the front doors of the Sienna. I have to admit they do not feel solid at all, and they creaked as you opened and closed the door on the showroom model we drove. Also, she hates the black laquer plastic used on the CE and LE--says it reminds her of a cheezy bachelor pad from the 80's, and on a more practical note, thinks they'll look dirty all the time w/ kids and dirty hands (they use this on the back doors, too. I'm willing to move up to the XLE to get the faux wood (plastic tape), but she thinks it looks cheap. For her, this issue is very nearly a show-stopper, but she hasn't put her foot down yet. I can live w/ the door handles (I do feel Toyota could do better than this, but my problem is w/ the Honda. I'd hoped the 2005 would get rid of the door track that is in the middle of the rear quarter panel, but it's still there! There's also another seam, and to me all this clutter just looks bad. No matter how much I try, it all I see when I look at the side of the Odyssey. You all probably think we're crazy letting such issues play into a decision, but the truth is we have looked at every thing else quite closely and find pros and cons w/ each, but overall the two finish in a virtual dead heat on the other issues that matter to us. So are we the only 2 that have noticed these "problems"?
When I first saw the specs for the '05 Odyssey I was thrilled to see that the mileage figures for the top 2 models (20 city/28 highway)had surpassed those of the Sienna (19 city/27 highway). I thought this could be the tie-breaker we've been looking for! Then I read on the Honda WEB site how they did it and I got worried. This VCM (Variable Cylinder Management) system effectively "turns off" the back 3 cylinders when they are not needed. I suddenly had flashbacks of GM's experiment in the late-70's - early 80's w/ their V8-6-4 engine that would do the same thing in a V8 engine. It was a huge failure. Now I realize 20 years have passed and this is Honda, not GM, but I would have a hard time buying this engine in its *first* year. It may work out just fine and it may be the wave of the future, but I want to see it proven before I buy it. We're still undecided and going out to drive an '05 Odyssey this Saturday, but if we go Honda it will be w/ the standard VTEC engine in one of the lower end models.
I am with you on the i-VTEC, but I think it has been used for awhile in Japan without issues. I'm hoping enough people think like us to get the prices down quickly on the EX-Ls and Tourings. Invoice prices on Siennas won't hurt either.
FINALLY! Another fanatic just like me! Yes, I agree... yes I agree! These small things are enough to drive a detail-driven person INSANE! I have to admit, the track on the Odyssey doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the plastic door panels. Not even a thin sheet of vinyl over it for a bit of a cushion. GEEZ! Even the Civic has that! I hate the fake plastic wood in the Sienna too (cheap looking). If you're gonna put wood in it, make it wood. I agree with your wife. With the kids, the black on the dash will look like a mess in short order.
I went with the Odyssey. I still don't know why. I think they are both great minivans. You can't go wrong with either. I guess I'm a gadget freak and the Odyssey Touring has many more gadgets than the Sienna.
The one thing that the Sienna has that the Odyssey does not (no... not 4WD)is HID headlights. This will drive me nuts for years to come. The first thing everyone talks about is the agressive headlight cluster. Honda even calls them 'brilliant'. Well, what the heck. Why not offer HIDs on your Touring model.
I know there are a bunch more fanatics out there.
I can't wait to play with that voice activated navigation system!
To add; Honda's Copy of the GM's V8-6-4 design will probably be hopefully more reliable than the 1980 GM disaster(26 State-Class Action lawsuit)in time(3 years and thousands of reliable VCM equipped vehicles). Being an Engineer(EE), I would say the Electronics today are more complex, but also more reliable than the 1980s, so the catastrophic event of the VCM shutting down to 3 Cylinders permanently is remote. One problem I see with VCM is the frictional and vibrational problems that can occur when it shuts down to 3 cylinders. The other problem I see with VCM is that in this Grid lock World it is useless. Like Cruise Control which is also useless in a grid lock world doesn't mean much to most Suburbanites like me. With it's Abysmal Reliability History, Cylinder Deactivation is very questionable at best. Honda would have been better off using it's Mild-Hybrid Design in the 2005 Odyssey than VCM!
The upgraded intuitive cruise control system uses radar instead of laser. Radar is less prone to give false readings due to poor weather or snow build up. Lexus uses the same radar sensor for their precollision system that preps the car for an inevitable collision.
>>Funny - I like to use cruise, even around town (traffic here is nothing like Seattle <g>). I sometimes wish I could get it to kick in below 35 mph. . . .
I have a 2000 Odyssey, and I frequently use the cruise control around my neighborhood to maintain my speed at the 25 mph speed limit. The police here have nothing better to do than lurk around San Diego suburban streets and give speeding tickets.
blackexy6, you were wrong. The Acura MDX is built in Ontario, Canada. I have a 2002 MDX. Will get rid of it to get a 05 Ody or Sienna. Leaning towards the Sienna right now, cheaper and better ride, but only get single cd player if I want NAV.
Well, on my brief test drive, I did notice the eco light on a number of times, and this was at moderate speeds on local streets.
Of course, who knows how well it will hold up, but I believe that the default (if that's the right word) is closed. That is, if it fails, the pin will stay connected and all 6 cylinders will function normally. You just won't have the VCM.
Given the history with the trannys and extending the warranties, It's not far fetched to think that if the system becomes problematic, Honda will take car of it, but of course no one wants to deal with the hassle.
I am really torn between the two but feel like I may be leaning towards the Sienna. I really hoped the Odyssey would do it for me, as this is our first van. I am not overly impressed however. I don't like that you have to go to Touring for the power tailgate. That is really the only option off of the Touring I would like to have. I don't care for the PAX system either. I do like the better NAV on the Odyssey and I hate that the Sienna RES is rear loaded only (have 2 kids and 1 on the way, so this is a big deal.) I also don't like the power door controls of the Odyssey being located on the drivers side. I find myself wondering if I would be just as happy with a Caravan/Town & Country. You get power tailgate, 6 disc DVD RES with front load, etc. for quite a bit cheaper. Seriously, too bad there isn't one great van with all the options out there.
The Sienna Uses regular gas. Not sure why people think it doesn't. All I put in is regular and it performs fantastic. Pletny of power. WAY nicer car than the 2004 Ody, There really is no comparison in terms of comfort and featurs. We'll see on the 2005, but as I said, no AWD. brutal mistake.
Check your registration card for your VIN, I believe Canadian built vehicles have a 2 as the first character. US is 1 or 4, J is for Japan, 3 for Mexico, etc.
The C&D comparo was off, perhaps they chose the wrong level to compare. It's the high-end ones that are popular, not the entry-level models.
When you consider that the Sienna offers HIDs, AWD, 2nd row windows that go down, a split-folding 3rd seat, seating for 8, and hidden door tracks, I dunno. Cost no object, would you really pick a 2004 Ody? Perhaps, but you'd be in the minority.
Having said that, locally the 2004s are screaming bargains and arguably make a better value than the Sienna for folks that don't want or need that stuff.
The 2005 makes things more interesting, competition improves the breed I guess. This segment is, in my opinion, the one that is offering the most innovation, by far.
VCM is neat, Edmunds' survey showed it was the most popular addition to the new Ody.
You said, "Serious car drivers would prefer the Ody over the Sienna."... Is that, as opposed to us 'goofin' around' car drivers? IT IS A MINIVAN- how SERIOUS can you be? You said, "It [Ody] also uses regular gas". The Sienna's owner's manual does recommend higher octane for premium performance. However, we've never put anything in our 2004 Sienna but regular, and it performs great. You also said, "The 2005 Ody increases the hp gap advantage to 25 using regular gas." More horsepower is better- I won't say it is not. But IT IS A MINIVAN. We live in Germany right now. We drive the autobahn everyday, where you go from 20 MPH on the on-ramp to 80 MPH on the autobahn very quickly to get into traffic, and the 2004 Sienna does awesome. You also said, "The Sienna may have a a slightly better ride..."- with that, I completely agree with you. We looked very closely at the 2003 Ody EX vs the 2004 Sienna LE. We chose the Sienna. I haven't seen the 2005 Ody. I bet it is awesome- especially the drive. The two main reasons I chose the Sienna LE over the Ody EX, and based on what I've read, believe I would again if we had to buy another from the 2005s, is price for what you get and front row leg room. I think the Ody is a great minivan. It is the only other one I would consider and I'm sure I would be happy with it if we had it. However, I don't think the extra money for what an Ody EX costs over what a Sienna LE costs is worth it- for the 2004 Sienna vs the 2003 Ody EX, I preferred the Sienna. As I said, one other thing is leg room. I'm not tall, but don't like my legs bent too much when I drive or even to sit in the passenger seat that way on long trips. With the 2003 Ody, the front row leg room (41") was just a little too short to be comfortable for me. The 2004 Sienna has about 2" more front row leg room at 42.9". I was very surprised to see Honda decreased front row leg room in the 2005 (40.8" according to the Honda web site). However, I still think the Ody is an incredible minivan and completely believe this is a personal preference- I just don't agree that it is a matter of "serious drivers" vs those who are not.
Agree. I was initially impressed with the 2004 Sienna specifications but after sitting inside many 2004 Siennas, the interior fabrics and fake wood looked and felt cheap. ( I am comparing Sienna LE with Odyssey EX). The 2005 Odyssey looks better in person than in the pictures. Toyota and DaimlerChrysler will have to give huge discounts or rebates to compete with the superior 2005 Honda Odyssey.
I have just purchased a 2005 Sienna XLE for $3175 off of MSRP, about $500 over invoice.
From everything I have read here, both vans have pros and cons over each other, assuming price was about equal. The $3000 off of sticker on the Sienna vs almost $0 on the 2005 Ody, makes a big difference when the vehicles are so close.
"Serious car drivers would prefer the Ody over the Sienna."
You're joking right? Until I had kids, I averaged about one weekend a month driving cars at racetracks and my "other" car is a 500 hp sports car. I'd say that qualifies me as a "serious car driver" and I own a Sienna. Both Odysseys and Siennas are big heavy boxes with a high center of gravity. Neither of them handles very well. Anybody who compares the handling of ANY minivan to a good sports sedan or sports car is having delusions.
Big discounts are a result of low sales. Look at the huge discounts on GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Mazda, Kia minivans...and now even on the 2005 Sienna. Honda offered discounts on the Odyssey only in the 5th year of the current model. No other minivan has the market demand of the Odyssey.
Sienna discounts are the result of a much more competitive market than Honda had from 99-03 and because Toyota chose to aggresively produce many more Siennas than they had in the past in an attempt to increase their market share (which they accomplished). The Chrysler minivans were the next best alternative to the Odyssey, and required enormous discounts to sell because the Odyssey was so much better overall.
Odysseys were no longer selling at MSRP once the 04 Sienna came out and the Odyssey had a viable competitor. My local dealer, who never had any inventory until the Sienna came out, consistently had 10+ once the Sienna became widely available and those ADM stickers disappeared as well. The 05 Odyssey will be widely discounted soon enough. Based on my local dealer inventory, and reports on here, people aren't lining up to buy them. Honda no longer has a monopoly on the high end minivan market and selling prices will reflect that.
Your overview rings true. Can anyone answer a question about minivans versus SUVs? I "sort of" know that the Sienna and Ody have more interior room than all but the biggest SUVs. Which SUVs have as much room as Sienna/Ody? Do you have to go to a Suburban or does a Sequoia equal the interior space? Thanks for some time-saving answers if anyone has them on this board. One more question--are the Sienna/Ody generally safer? It's hard to tell because a lot of the SUVs aren't as fully rated for some reason. Thanks again.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think the Odyssey and Sienna have comparable cargo and seating capacity to a Suburban, and have more space than a Sequoia. However, the space on a minivan behind the third row tends to be vertical, while it's more horizontal on the Suburban, making it more usuable for many kinds of cargo.
As far as safety, they both definitely beat the Suburban, which lacks side curtain airbags, is more prone to rolling over and got a 4 star (driver) and 3 star (passenger) front crash test score from the NHTSA vs. a 5/5 for the Sienna, and you would expect the same score for the 05 Odyssey based on past results and Honda's promises. The Sequoia has side curtain airbags available for 05, and got 5/5 stars on the NHTSA front crash tests, but it would still be more prone to rollover than a minivan.
The Sequoia would definitely be my choice if you go the big SUV route for safety and reliability reasons.
This will be a long two-part post - I have to express what I have gone through to finally pick the Odyssey - again. I posted a week or two ago that my wife and I had looked at the 4 major minivans, but then made a deposit on an 05 Black Odyssey EXL RES. We were very excited and convinced at the time that the Honda was for us. Yet my decision to buy the Honda was undermined by a significant amount of support here on Edmunds for the 04/05 Sienna over the new Odyssey. Comments from people saying the Sienna had better interior materials, the softer ride was more luxurious in feeling, Sienna had a greater feature set, AWD,the Honda looked ugly, people didn't like the Honda colors, etc...
I had been thoroughly impressed with the Honda, but my gut always felt the Sienna was just edging out the Honda, but was more expensive. Therefore, my intuition told me I could not be happy with a Honda, because down deep I really came to believe that the Sienna was the better deal and I doubted my choice. I must have been "flush with the romance" of the new 05 Odyssey and the puppy love was wearing off. Hence, over the last week I have been in contact with 4 Toyota dealers bargaining away. I've got offers for $500 over invoice on "available" colors or $1,000 over invoice for the color I want. This is for any package I desire in Denver, Colorado. How amazing things are now for Sienna pricing.
So my wife and I packed up the kids and we went out again tonight to test drive both vehicles. This time we were more assertive - we stopped by a Toyota Dealership and picked up a Red Sienna XLE Limited with RES/NAV (MSRP ~$39,000) and actually put our kid seats in the van for our 9 month old and 3 year old. We placed them in the 2nd row. The salesman was fully supportive and convinced (as I was) that we would be buying that vehicle (or similar) that evening. His offer was just over $3,000 off MSRP and he said take the van for as long as we needed. Our internet salesman was AWESOME and he works for Burt Toyota in Littleton. My wife really liked all the interior luxury and features. So we spent the first half hour driving around and figuring the controls out, sitting in the back seats, playing with the doors, playing with the NAV, etc...
After driving for the first half hour, we went to Ralph Schomp Honda in Littleton and picked up an 05 Odyssey EXL. We just had to do this to get a real comparison. We received REALLY concerned looks when we drove an immaculate Red Sienna XLE Limited onto the Honda lot and asked for an Odyssey. One couple kept pointing at us and smiling/laughing. A salesman was showing the only 05 Odyssey on the test lot to a family that kept looking over their shoulders at us. Once they moved on, we were the only one to ask for a test drive at the time. The salesmen were very cool about the whole thing and wanted us to do a comparison. So my wife and I sped off in a new 05 Odyssey EXL and 04 Sienna XLE Limited DVD/NAV and followed each other through neighborhoods and roads in Denver metro. We would stop every 10 minutes or so and switch cars, play with gadgets, and look at every feature and much as we could. We would do U-turns, lefts, rights, accelerating, stopping, etc.. This is about as good of a side-by-side comparison as it gets!
When we finished playing around, we returned the cars to the dealerships and went out to dinner at a restaurant. My wife wouldn't tell me what she thought about our final test-drive until we had dinner (we've driven a Sienna on about 3 separate occasions now - The Odyssey for 2). I spilled the cat on the drive to the restaurant and told her that for various reasons I was now a Honda buyer. I was dying to know what she thought.
Here is what we discussed over dinner and concurred with:
A. We like the handling of the Odyssey MUCH better than the Sienna. I'm sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but it means something. I was convinced I wanted the Lexus feel of the Sienna until I drove the Honda side-by-side. Believe me - I was absolutely convinced I wanted the Sienna Lexus feel and I was only there to convince my wife of this. However, my wife and I do a lot of city driving, traffic weaving, and are usually late. I can't say we are the slowest of drivers on the market. I felt very comfortable maneuvering in traffic and FELT that the Honda would respond to what I needed to do, similar to our Volkswagen without me thinking so much how it would respond. Sure, its no sports car, but it gave me the "feeling" of response and I would enjoy driving the Honda more. The Sienna had just enough of a softer, comfortable feel that I wouldn't care to maneuver as I would in the Honda and this bothers both my wife and I. This was a major factor for us.
B. Acceleration. My wife thought the Sienna felt slow last time. I criticized this as well. I gave the Sienna another chance by really hitting the gas at a light or two to mimic rapid on ramp acceleration or other similar situations. The Sienna actually accelerated well and both my wife and I can't say there is a definitive difference in power anymore.
C. Rear Sienna XLE Limited camera. As you back up in the Sienna equipped with a rear camera, the rear view behind the cars automatically shows on the NAV screen on the dash. This is extremely cool, but also can be a bit dangerous for a reason I hadn’t thought of. Let me explain. As my wife and I just switched vans again, I was backing up in a parking lot that was intersected by an alley. I was using the rear camera thinking it was the cat's meow. Because I was relying on the camera that shows quite an impressive angle, I didn't see another car coming up the alley to my left. No accident occurred, but I realize that I could be overly dependent on this cool gadget and might run into somebody. Never substitute actual looks over your shoulder. This caused me to rethink what type of technology I need in my car.
D. Interior styling. I really was looking at the fake wood in the Sienna and liking it, but not loving it. Believe me - I like luxury and leather WILL BE in my new van. But my wedding ring kept scraping the fancy steering wheel of the Sienna - this was bothersome. Also, the compass/mileage control compartment off the Sienna blocks the rear view mirror. Again, bothersome. Back to the fake wood - take a look at the real mahogany steering wheel and shifter insets in the 2005 Subaru lines and you will now see the Sienna styling as only plastic. My gut was saying that I couldn't actually convince myself to spend that much extra for some minor styling and a few more tech toys. The instrument panel of the Odyssey really does look much better than the Sienna. However, the center dash of the Sienna is nicer than the Odyssey. Overall, the Odyssey is still blander even with the Touring. BTW, the steering wheel still feels far away in the Honda. (Continued in next post)
Oh, and the seats - I voiced criticism of the Honda seats. I realized there is a lumbar support that can be over cranked. When I turned this down, the seats of the Honda were quite comfortable and I no longer take issue with this.
Interior Space - I have voiced a complaint about the 05 Odyssey that it feels cramped as compared to Sienna or Quest. However, after jumping back and forth between the two vans in a parking lot, I really didn't notice much a difference anymore. I know the Sienna has a greater reported internal volume, but I just didn't notice. Neither did my wife. I'm 5' 10". The 2nd Row Odyssey rows move forward and back and are quite versatile as well. The rear seats are about the same in comfort. Honda is the unquestionable winner with ease of folding the 3rd row seats.
Outside styling. Looking at the immaculate XLE Limited in beautiful Salsa Red Pearl with an extra strip of chrome versus the Odyssey in Sage Brush Pearl. Well, I like the look of the Odyssey better. Call me crazy. So does my wife. I really like the chrome that traces outline of the windows on the Odyssey.
Cost. My wife said that the only way she would want Sienna at this point is if she could have the top-of-the-line van at a great price. Well, we are offered the XLE Limited with DVD/NAV for about $36,500 before tax and extended warranty. Pretty good, but not convincing for us since we feel that the Honda EXL DVD/NAV competes sooo well at $34,500. OK, hears is the real deal – we decided that if we could get the 2004 Sienna XLE limited for $34,500 for over $1,000 below invoice, we would buy the Sienna just because it gives the biggest initial “WOW” factor on the interior when you have never seen it. We both thought we would truly be spending money just to impress people, not because we really needed the features or that the Sienna was superior. Obviously, the salesman wouldn’t give us below MSRP to where we wanted.
Final philosophical thought. I have decided that I like the minimal design of the Honda because I find the gadgets and styling of the Sienna to be somewhat distracting. I own an iPOD and I think the iPOD is a great AAC/MP3 player simply because it is SIMPLE and FUNCTIONAL. Since we are city drivers we don't need laser cruise and all the extra features added to the top-o-line XLE Limited. The Honda looks fabulous (we think out Nighthawk Black Pearl Honda will be stunning) and seems more functional at a lower cost than the Sienna. We really just want to drive around town and all the bells and whistle are a bit of distraction. The Honda is very Functional, Elegant, and Modest on the inside, and sporty with a "bit-o-attitude" on the outside (Black paint with tinted windows should look cool).
There you have it. For what we need, we think the EXL DVD Res is plenty of car for us and for just about anybody in the $30k van market. We would have considered buying any package of either Toyota or Sienna at any price (thought anything over $36 was stretching us), but the Honda Odyssey has become our car of choice and we won't look back again. Unfortunately, the people at Ralph Schomp Honda will not have a black Odyssey EXL DVD that we want for at least 2 to 3 months. So they won’t get my business. Our order for our black Honda from another dealers is not to arrive until later October early November and we are really chewing at the bit. I have to admit that the guy who we placed the deposit with at John Elway Honda is pretty good. I've just been on a Sienna rampage that just ended tonight and I felt compelled to buy from Ralph Schomp Honda after how accomodating they were. If Ralph Schomp had a black EXL on the lot tonight, it would be sitting in front of my house now. They were really excited that we chose the Honda and wanted to hear all of our thoughts
I did call the Toyota guy back and thanked him a lot. I explained why we made our choice not to buy the Sienna and that we would recommend him to anybody.
So there you have it - we LOVE the 05 Honda again and we can't wait to get it.
Great post!!! Thank you for the comparison and the insight
Purchasing the 2004 Sienna XLE Limited was the first time I purchased a vehicle where I got all the options I wanted and didn't put as much concern on price. We keep our cars forever so we wanted to get the best that we could.
I am still "wowed" every time we get in our minivan.
I use the backup camera and parking assist every time I am in the van to supplement my vision and judgment. The camera becomes invaluable when backing out of a parking spot where your vision is blocked by the vehicles on both sides of you. The wide angle lens field of view covers both sides to tell if it clear to back out. The assurance of viewing the camera when backing up at my daughter's school where there are tons of kids and cars moving all around in itself makes the camera and Nav worth it.
Whether you buy a Ody or Sienna get the features you want and make sure you get the features you need.
One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Thanks for your analysis. Wife and I have been planning to do a back to back comparison as well. Great idea about taking them both out at the same time!
Great way to do it....My self i look the honda odyssey, I really, really think is a great van, but, the felling of it din't convince me...I deside to get the sienna 2005,,,plus the people from honda want 4 to 5 thousand over MSRP they say is "HOT" I got my sienna $500 over invoice the color i like....Honda now calling me,, will give me it for $38,500.00 before tax..I got the sienna for $40,530.75 after taxes with AWD limet and nav/dvd....I never had honda and i was trying to own one...But honda sale person tough they found gold and only them can sale it....so no honda for me. Soyyo
People seem to be selling for MSRP here in Denver. If the honda dealerships were charging $3,000 over MSRP, we would have to lean toward the Sienna. If things we exactly equal in price, we would buy the Honda. The Sienna would have to drop below Honda MSRP prices by about $2,000 before we would buy a Sienna at this point.
tcsubwoofer, you write: "Cost. My wife said that the only way she would want Sienna at this point is if she could have the top-of-the-line van at a great price. Well, we are offered the XLE Limited with DVD/NAV for about $36,500 before tax and extended warranty. Pretty good, but not convincing for us since we feel that the Honda EXL DVD/NAV competes sooo well at $34,500."
I think price wise you should compare Sienna XLE with DVD/NAV to Ody EXL-RES/NAV. If you're going to only get Res and not NAV, actually, Sienna XLE with Res will be at a much better price point currently ($2k less, may be more). Except for the laser cruise, HID, wood steering wheel and may be a few other items, XLE will more than enough compete with the 05 Ody EX-L Res. But, if you're after the Honda ride, then all the other factors become secondary.
I should restate my overall feeling - All things being equal in cost and features, we still want the Honda.
Going to Edmunds and Figuring the cost of a 2005 Sienna XLE with Package 8 (has all safety features and DVD and NAV), the invoice is $33,367. Assuming I can get $1,000 over we are at $34.367. This is about the price of a Honda EXL DVD/NAV (BTW, we are considering adding NAV to our order for the Odyssey). If we assume Package 7 (DVD only), the invoice on an 05 Sienna is $31,749. Assuming $1,000 over that, I get $32749 on a Sienna XLE DVD. We are figuring to pay $32,400 on the Honda. Now this is nearly head-to-head on price with Honda and Sienna.
We feel that the Honda competes so well for us that we would have to have an XLE or Limited XLE Sienna at a cost far below a normal EXL Odyssey MSRP to change our mind. I would be hard pressed to consider the Sienna again unless I could get an 05 EXL DVD/NAV for about $32,500 or an 05 EXL DVD for about $30,500. Good luck.
After our extensive tests, we no longer feel that the Sienna "does the trick" for us. I don't care anymore about the fake wood interior and such. We feel just as comfortable and special in an 05 Odyssey. We are considering adding NAV to our Odyssey order if possible, which would make the Odyssey as teched out as we want. We have a few quips with the Honda still (no power rear), but we are much more pleased with Style, function, and colors on the Hondas.
I am not trying to change your mind here, but I think $500 over invoice is easily doable on the Sienna. Ody will also come down from MSRP soon but the MSRP/invoice spread on the Ody may be a little bit less, I think. One also gets leather steering wheel, fog lights, 2nd and third row sunshades, roofrack cross bars, and a few other goodies on the Sienna which cost extra on the Ody. So, finally it all may come down to ride preference, obviously you favor Honda's ride, then you have no other choice.
I just finished driving an XLE Limited with NAV/RSES. I drove the Honda Touring a week ago.
The Toyota impresses me with its luxury and smooth ride. I had a Lexus RX330, so I am comfortable with the features on the Toyota. The Toyota has a power passenger seat, and I don't think that Honda offers this feature. I like the sonar park assist and back-up camera. I also like the HID lights. The colors seem "brighter" on the Toyota.
The Honda did seem quicker and handled better than the Toyota. The steering seemed to require greater effort. The Touring had neat aluminum wheels, 18", I believe. The Touring had the "lazy susan" storage in the floor. My Honda salesman said that they hadn't received any Touring models with NAV/DVD. The NAV/DVD package also includes XM radio. I don't think the Toyota offers XM. The Touring stickers at $35,000. The XLE Limited was $40,000. I know the Honda is sold at sticker here in Central Florida.
I may wait to see a Honda with DVD before I decide. I am sure that both are good choices.
My impression is that XM is pre-wired on NAV models, but you will have to pay for the hardware and have the dealer install the XM hardware. Am I wrong?
I think if you are into NAV as much as I am, then there's no contest between the Sienna and Ody since the Ody's NAV is even better than the Lexus LS430's NAV. But like the Sienna when it debuted, you will have to wait a little later for NAV on Ody.
Does he mean "drivers who like to race and turn corners frequently" ?
I like driving and I'm pretty serious about driving. I will probably prefer the soft/cushy ride of the Sienna over the Ody, but the Ody's NAV & RES win big time if you are into this sort of thing.
"05 Odyssey will be widely discounted soon enough"
I think paying MSRP for the Ody RIGHT NOW is really silly. And paying above MSRP is really retarded. I prefer the Ody's NAV & RES, but no way on earth would I pay MSRP for the Ody and $3-4K off MSRP on a Sienna. I plan on buying the Ody at $4K off MSRP (invoice is $4K below MSRP plus $909 dealer hold back) when the Touring w/NAV is more available on dealer lots.
Since you want RES, the Ody also has a much better RES than Sienna. The Ody's RES is bigger and is loaded up front for easy access for the driver/front passenger. Sure you don't want the NAV for your self enjoyment? I mean the kids get the RES. What about you? 8" NAV screen. 637 voice commands that controls RES, NAV, A/C, CD, Radio. Not even a $70K Lexus LS430/LX470 or a $80K Range Rover or Mercedes G500 has such an awesome NAV as the '05 Ody!!!!! So if you get NAV, you really truly must get the Ody since the Sienna's NAV is very mediocre at best when compared to the '05 Ody's NAV.
I brought my silver EX-L in San Francisco Bay Area last week. I checked several dealers. There were a few black EX-L RES. Once was offered to me at MSRP with 1 free accessories.
Personally, I like light exterior with dark interior. I have 3 kids and owned Chrysler T&C, Quest... It is much easier to keep the dark interior “clean”. According to studies, light exterior is safer.
Apparently, the US version of the Ody NAV Disk doesn't have Canadian coverage but Canadian version does. So, if one is along the Northern Border, I am not sure how they can get Canadian coverage.
Thought this might help with why Honda should of have AWD as a Option.
USA TODAY's James R. Healey writes the Test Drive column, posted every Friday at: cars.usatoday.com. He has covered cars and the auto industry for USA TODAY since January 1988. From Auroras to VWs, he test drives about 100 cars and trucks a year. Talk live with Jim about his auto reviews and get his opinion on new models.
del city, OK: James, We enjoy your chat. If you have to buy a van which one you choose? 05'Odyssey, Siena, Quest? And why? (assume you don't need 4WD of Siena)
James R. Healey: I'd probably go with Odyssey for its sportier driving characteristics: Crisper steering, firmer brakes, peppier engine (on cheaper fuel), etc.
But, of course, I'd probably not buy a vehicle without AWD or 4x4 for my personal use -- well, maybe the new Mustang.
The Ody is pre-wired for XM in the EX and EXL but I believe it is standard with all equipment in the Touring. I know I saw two EX Odysseys at the dealer (one EX and one EXL) and the EXL was definitely pre-wired for XM and it did not have NAV. I believe the EX cloth sticker showed that it was also pre-wired for XM.
I have XM in my 2004 Accord and love it. Don't know if I could live without it now.
WOW, there are some serious van aficionados out there! That's a great post. We just purchased a 2004 Honda Odyssey last August after test driving the Sienna AND Odyssey on three different days. Actually drove them back-to-back-to-back at the local automall. We also drove some other vans (and my sister-in-law's Kia that she bought because it was the best deal in town) but quickly narrowed our choices to these two. We also wavered back and forth between the two vans. I totally agree that both are great vans and the differences are subtle based on the owners needs/desires. We liked some of the features in the Sienna but really liked the way the Honda drove. And yes, I know it's not a sports car, but both my wife and I enjoyed driving it much more than the Sienna (the handling and power response are benefits we will use every day). We have never owned a luxury car but we do own a '91 Buick that my wife hates to drive because it "floats like a boat" so she and I both prefer a firm ride. We purchased the van (EX-RES No-leather) for $24,740 about $700 under invoice with this area's destination charge. At the time we were looking, the comparable Sienna was quoted $4,000 more and couldn't find one at any dealer. We like everything about it so far with the exception of the gas mileage. We have just over 1K miles with mostly very short trips (<5 miles), like taking the kids to school, and we are getting around 14 mpg. I haven't seen the 2005 yet but I'm keeping my eye out for them.
Don't tempt me! I've already considered trading in my Volkswagon TDI Wagon to get one of the new killer 05 outback wagons (in black of course). That would mean a new 05 Subaru and a new 05 Odyssey. I need to slow down and take a deep breath. The new 05 Ody will be enough for now.
Comments
I found this forum today and spent over 2 hrs reading the 200+ posts--very informative. We are leaning towards the Sienna, but have one issue that to my surprise has not been mentioned. My wife can't stand the cheap, plastic inside door handles on the front doors of the Sienna. I have to admit they do not feel solid at all, and they creaked as you opened and closed the door on the showroom model we drove. Also, she hates the black laquer plastic used on the CE and LE--says it reminds her of a cheezy bachelor pad from the 80's, and on a more practical note, thinks they'll look dirty all the time w/ kids and dirty hands (they use this on the back doors, too. I'm willing to move up to the XLE to get the faux wood (plastic tape), but she thinks it looks cheap. For her, this issue is very nearly a show-stopper, but she hasn't put her foot down yet.
I can live w/ the door handles (I do feel Toyota could do better than this, but my problem is w/ the Honda. I'd hoped the 2005 would get rid of the door track that is in the middle of the rear quarter panel, but it's still there! There's also another seam, and to me all this clutter just looks bad. No matter how much I try, it all I see when I look at the side of the Odyssey.
You all probably think we're crazy letting such issues play into a decision, but the truth is we have looked at every thing else quite closely and find pros and cons w/ each, but overall the two finish in a virtual dead heat on the other issues that matter to us.
So are we the only 2 that have noticed these "problems"?
We're still undecided and going out to drive an '05 Odyssey this Saturday, but if we go Honda it will be w/ the standard VTEC engine in one of the lower end models.
Another fanatic just like me!
Yes, I agree... yes I agree!
These small things are enough to drive a detail-driven person INSANE!
I have to admit, the track on the Odyssey doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the plastic door panels. Not even a thin sheet of vinyl over it for a bit of a cushion. GEEZ! Even the Civic has that!
I hate the fake plastic wood in the Sienna too (cheap looking). If you're gonna put wood in it, make it wood. I agree with your wife. With the kids, the black on the dash will look like a mess in short order.
I went with the Odyssey. I still don't know why. I think they are both great minivans. You can't go wrong with either.
I guess I'm a gadget freak and the Odyssey Touring has many more gadgets than the Sienna.
The one thing that the Sienna has that the Odyssey does not (no... not 4WD)is HID headlights. This will drive me nuts for years to come. The first thing everyone talks about is the agressive headlight cluster. Honda even calls them 'brilliant'. Well, what the heck. Why not offer HIDs on your Touring model.
I know there are a bunch more fanatics out there.
I can't wait to play with that voice activated navigation system!
To add; Honda's Copy of the GM's V8-6-4 design will probably be hopefully more reliable than the 1980 GM disaster(26 State-Class Action lawsuit)in time(3 years and thousands of reliable VCM equipped vehicles). Being an Engineer(EE), I would say the Electronics today are more complex, but also more reliable than the 1980s, so the catastrophic event of the VCM shutting down to 3 Cylinders permanently is remote. One problem I see with VCM is the frictional and vibrational problems that can occur when it shuts down to 3 cylinders. The other problem I see with VCM is that in this Grid lock World it is useless. Like Cruise Control which is also useless in a grid lock world doesn't mean much to most Suburbanites like me. With it's Abysmal Reliability History, Cylinder Deactivation is very questionable at best. Honda would have been better off using it's Mild-Hybrid Design in the 2005 Odyssey than VCM!
I have a 2000 Odyssey, and I frequently use the cruise control around my neighborhood to maintain my speed at the 25 mph speed limit. The police here have nothing better to do than lurk around San Diego suburban streets and give speeding tickets.
-- EVAN
Of course, who knows how well it will hold up, but I believe that the default (if that's the right word) is closed. That is, if it fails, the pin will stay connected and all 6 cylinders will function normally. You just won't have the VCM.
Given the history with the trannys and extending the warranties, It's not far fetched to think that if the system becomes problematic, Honda will take car of it, but of course no one wants to deal with the hassle.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I find myself wondering if I would be just as happy with a Caravan/Town & Country. You get power tailgate, 6 disc DVD RES with front load, etc. for quite a bit cheaper. Seriously, too bad there isn't one great van with all the options out there.
No, but I think by December, you can probably get the same discount on '05 Sienna.
By then, you can probably get $1K off MSRP on Ody.
The C&D comparo was off, perhaps they chose the wrong level to compare. It's the high-end ones that are popular, not the entry-level models.
When you consider that the Sienna offers HIDs, AWD, 2nd row windows that go down, a split-folding 3rd seat, seating for 8, and hidden door tracks, I dunno. Cost no object, would you really pick a 2004 Ody? Perhaps, but you'd be in the minority.
Having said that, locally the 2004s are screaming bargains and arguably make a better value than the Sienna for folks that don't want or need that stuff.
The 2005 makes things more interesting, competition improves the breed I guess. This segment is, in my opinion, the one that is offering the most innovation, by far.
VCM is neat, Edmunds' survey showed it was the most popular addition to the new Ody.
-juice
The 2005 Odyssey looks better in person than in the pictures. Toyota and DaimlerChrysler will have to give huge discounts or rebates to compete with the superior 2005 Honda Odyssey.
From everything I have read here, both vans have pros and cons over each other, assuming price was about equal. The $3000 off of sticker on the Sienna vs almost $0 on the 2005 Ody, makes a big difference when the vehicles are so close.
You're joking right? Until I had kids, I averaged about one weekend a month driving cars at racetracks and my "other" car is a 500 hp sports car. I'd say that qualifies me as a "serious car driver" and I own a Sienna. Both Odysseys and Siennas are big heavy boxes with a high center of gravity. Neither of them handles very well. Anybody who compares the handling of ANY minivan to a good sports sedan or sports car is having delusions.
Honda offered discounts on the Odyssey only in the 5th year of the current model. No other minivan has the market demand of the Odyssey.
Odysseys were no longer selling at MSRP once the 04 Sienna came out and the Odyssey had a viable competitor. My local dealer, who never had any inventory until the Sienna came out, consistently had 10+ once the Sienna became widely available and those ADM stickers disappeared as well. The 05 Odyssey will be widely discounted soon enough. Based on my local dealer inventory, and reports on here, people aren't lining up to buy them. Honda no longer has a monopoly on the high end minivan market and selling prices will reflect that.
One more question--are the Sienna/Ody generally safer? It's hard to tell because a lot of the SUVs aren't as fully rated for some reason.
Thanks again.
SUV vs. Minivans
Steve, Host
As far as safety, they both definitely beat the Suburban, which lacks side curtain airbags, is more prone to rolling over and got a 4 star (driver) and 3 star (passenger) front crash test score from the NHTSA vs. a 5/5 for the Sienna, and you would expect the same score for the 05 Odyssey based on past results and Honda's promises. The Sequoia has side curtain airbags available for 05, and got 5/5 stars on the NHTSA front crash tests, but it would still be more prone to rollover than a minivan.
The Sequoia would definitely be my choice if you go the big SUV route for safety and reliability reasons.
I had been thoroughly impressed with the Honda, but my gut always felt the Sienna was just edging out the Honda, but was more expensive. Therefore, my intuition told me I could not be happy with a Honda, because down deep I really came to believe that the Sienna was the better deal and I doubted my choice. I must have been "flush with the romance" of the new 05 Odyssey and the puppy love was wearing off. Hence, over the last week I have been in contact with 4 Toyota dealers bargaining away. I've got offers for $500 over invoice on "available" colors or $1,000 over invoice for the color I want. This is for any package I desire in Denver, Colorado. How amazing things are now for Sienna pricing.
So my wife and I packed up the kids and we went out again tonight to test drive both vehicles. This time we were more assertive - we stopped by a Toyota Dealership and picked up a Red Sienna XLE Limited with RES/NAV (MSRP ~$39,000) and actually put our kid seats in the van for our 9 month old and 3 year old. We placed them in the 2nd row. The salesman was fully supportive and convinced (as I was) that we would be buying that vehicle (or similar) that evening. His offer was just over $3,000 off MSRP and he said take the van for as long as we needed. Our internet salesman was AWESOME and he works for Burt Toyota in Littleton. My wife really liked all the interior luxury and features. So we spent the first half hour driving around and figuring the controls out, sitting in the back seats, playing with the doors, playing with the NAV, etc...
After driving for the first half hour, we went to Ralph Schomp Honda in Littleton and picked up an 05 Odyssey EXL. We just had to do this to get a real comparison. We received REALLY concerned looks when we drove an immaculate Red Sienna XLE Limited onto the Honda lot and asked for an Odyssey. One couple kept pointing at us and smiling/laughing. A salesman was showing the only 05 Odyssey on the test lot to a family that kept looking over their shoulders at us. Once they moved on, we were the only one to ask for a test drive at the time. The salesmen were very cool about the whole thing and wanted us to do a comparison. So my wife and I sped off in a new 05 Odyssey EXL and 04 Sienna XLE Limited DVD/NAV and followed each other through neighborhoods and roads in Denver metro. We would stop every 10 minutes or so and switch cars, play with gadgets, and look at every feature and much as we could. We would do U-turns, lefts, rights, accelerating, stopping, etc.. This is about as good of a side-by-side comparison as it gets!
When we finished playing around, we returned the cars to the dealerships and went out to dinner at a restaurant. My wife wouldn't tell me what she thought about our final test-drive until we had dinner (we've driven a Sienna on about 3 separate occasions now - The Odyssey for 2). I spilled the cat on the drive to the restaurant and told her that for various reasons I was now a Honda buyer. I was dying to know what she thought.
Here is what we discussed over dinner and concurred with:
A. We like the handling of the Odyssey MUCH better than the Sienna. I'm sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but it means something. I was convinced I wanted the Lexus feel of the Sienna until I drove the Honda side-by-side. Believe me - I was absolutely convinced I wanted the Sienna Lexus feel and I was only there to convince my wife of this. However, my wife and I do a lot of city driving, traffic weaving, and are usually late. I can't say we are the slowest of drivers on the market. I felt very comfortable maneuvering in traffic and FELT that the Honda would respond to what I needed to do, similar to our Volkswagen without me thinking so much how it would respond. Sure, its no sports car, but it gave me the "feeling" of response and I would enjoy driving the Honda more. The Sienna had just enough of a softer, comfortable feel that I wouldn't care to maneuver as I would in the Honda and this bothers both my wife and I. This was a major factor for us.
B. Acceleration. My wife thought the Sienna felt slow last time. I criticized this as well. I gave the Sienna another chance by really hitting the gas at a light or two to mimic rapid on ramp acceleration or other similar situations. The Sienna actually accelerated well and both my wife and I can't say there is a definitive difference in power anymore.
C. Rear Sienna XLE Limited camera. As you back up in the Sienna equipped with a rear camera, the rear view behind the cars automatically shows on the NAV screen on the dash. This is extremely cool, but also can be a bit dangerous for a reason I hadn’t thought of. Let me explain. As my wife and I just switched vans again, I was backing up in a parking lot that was intersected by an alley. I was using the rear camera thinking it was the cat's meow. Because I was relying on the camera that shows quite an impressive angle, I didn't see another car coming up the alley to my left. No accident occurred, but I realize that I could be overly dependent on this cool gadget and might run into somebody. Never substitute actual looks over your shoulder. This caused me to rethink what type of technology I need in my car.
D. Interior styling. I really was looking at the fake wood in the Sienna and liking it, but not loving it. Believe me - I like luxury and leather WILL BE in my new van. But my wedding ring kept scraping the fancy steering wheel of the Sienna - this was bothersome. Also, the compass/mileage control compartment off the Sienna blocks the rear view mirror. Again, bothersome. Back to the fake wood - take a look at the real mahogany steering wheel and shifter insets in the 2005 Subaru lines and you will now see the Sienna styling as only plastic. My gut was saying that I couldn't actually convince myself to spend that much extra for some minor styling and a few more tech toys. The instrument panel of the Odyssey really does look much better than the Sienna. However, the center dash of the Sienna is nicer than the Odyssey. Overall, the Odyssey is still blander even with the Touring. BTW, the steering wheel still feels far away in the Honda. (Continued in next post)
Interior Space - I have voiced a complaint about the 05 Odyssey that it feels cramped as compared to Sienna or Quest. However, after jumping back and forth between the two vans in a parking lot, I really didn't notice much a difference anymore. I know the Sienna has a greater reported internal volume, but I just didn't notice. Neither did my wife. I'm 5' 10". The 2nd Row Odyssey rows move forward and back and are quite versatile as well. The rear seats are about the same in comfort. Honda is the unquestionable winner with ease of folding the 3rd row seats.
Outside styling. Looking at the immaculate XLE Limited in beautiful Salsa Red Pearl with an extra strip of chrome versus the Odyssey in Sage Brush Pearl. Well, I like the look of the Odyssey better. Call me crazy. So does my wife. I really like the chrome that traces outline of the windows on the Odyssey.
Cost. My wife said that the only way she would want Sienna at this point is if she could have the top-of-the-line van at a great price. Well, we are offered the XLE Limited with DVD/NAV for about $36,500 before tax and extended warranty. Pretty good, but not convincing for us since we feel that the Honda EXL DVD/NAV competes sooo well at $34,500. OK, hears is the real deal – we decided that if we could get the 2004 Sienna XLE limited for $34,500 for over $1,000 below invoice, we would buy the Sienna just because it gives the biggest initial “WOW” factor on the interior when you have never seen it. We both thought we would truly be spending money just to impress people, not because we really needed the features or that the Sienna was superior. Obviously, the salesman wouldn’t give us below MSRP to where we wanted.
Final philosophical thought. I have decided that I like the minimal design of the Honda because I find the gadgets and styling of the Sienna to be somewhat distracting. I own an iPOD and I think the iPOD is a great AAC/MP3 player simply because it is SIMPLE and FUNCTIONAL. Since we are city drivers we don't need laser cruise and all the extra features added to the top-o-line XLE Limited. The Honda looks fabulous (we think out Nighthawk Black Pearl Honda will be stunning) and seems more functional at a lower cost than the Sienna. We really just want to drive around town and all the bells and whistle are a bit of distraction. The Honda is very Functional, Elegant, and Modest on the inside, and sporty with a "bit-o-attitude" on the outside (Black paint with tinted windows should look cool).
There you have it. For what we need, we think the EXL DVD Res is plenty of car for us and for just about anybody in the $30k van market. We would have considered buying any package of either Toyota or Sienna at any price (thought anything over $36 was stretching us), but the Honda Odyssey has become our car of choice and we won't look back again. Unfortunately, the people at Ralph Schomp Honda will not have a black Odyssey EXL DVD that we want for at least 2 to 3 months. So they won’t get my business. Our order for our black Honda from another dealers is not to arrive until later October early November and we are really chewing at the bit. I have to admit that the guy who we placed the deposit with at John Elway Honda is pretty good. I've just been on a Sienna rampage that just ended tonight and I felt compelled to buy from Ralph Schomp Honda after how accomodating they were. If Ralph Schomp had a black EXL on the lot tonight, it would be sitting in front of my house now. They were really excited that we chose the Honda and wanted to hear all of our thoughts
I did call the Toyota guy back and thanked him a lot. I explained why we made our choice not to buy the Sienna and that we would recommend him to anybody.
So there you have it - we LOVE the 05 Honda again and we can't wait to get it.
Purchasing the 2004 Sienna XLE Limited was the first time I purchased a vehicle where I got all the options I wanted and didn't put as much concern on price. We keep our cars forever so we wanted to get the best that we could.
I am still "wowed" every time we get in our minivan.
I use the backup camera and parking assist every time I am in the van to supplement my vision and judgment. The camera becomes invaluable when backing out of a parking spot where your vision is blocked by the vehicles on both sides of you. The wide angle lens field of view covers both sides to tell if it clear to back out. The assurance of viewing the camera when backing up at my daughter's school where there are tons of kids and cars moving all around in itself makes the camera and Nav worth it.
Whether you buy a Ody or Sienna get the features you want and make sure you get the features you need.
the color i like....Honda now calling me,, will give me it for $38,500.00 before tax..I got the sienna for $40,530.75 after taxes with AWD limet and nav/dvd....I never had honda and i was trying to own one...But honda sale person tough they found gold and only them can sale it....so no honda for me.
Soyyo
"Cost. My wife said that the only way she would want Sienna at this point is if she could have the top-of-the-line van at a great price. Well, we are offered the XLE Limited with DVD/NAV for about $36,500 before tax and extended warranty. Pretty good, but not convincing for us since we feel that the Honda EXL DVD/NAV competes sooo well at $34,500."
I think price wise you should compare Sienna XLE with DVD/NAV to Ody EXL-RES/NAV. If you're going to only get Res and not NAV, actually, Sienna XLE with Res will be at a much better price point currently ($2k less, may be more). Except for the laser cruise, HID, wood steering wheel and may be a few other items, XLE will more than enough compete with the 05 Ody EX-L Res. But, if you're after the Honda ride, then all the other factors become secondary.
Going to Edmunds and Figuring the cost of a 2005 Sienna XLE with Package 8 (has all safety features and DVD and NAV), the invoice is $33,367. Assuming I can get $1,000 over we are at $34.367. This is about the price of a Honda EXL DVD/NAV (BTW, we are considering adding NAV to our order for the Odyssey). If we assume Package 7 (DVD only), the invoice on an 05 Sienna is $31,749. Assuming $1,000 over that, I get $32749 on a Sienna XLE DVD. We are figuring to pay $32,400 on the Honda. Now this is nearly head-to-head on price with Honda and Sienna.
We feel that the Honda competes so well for us that we would have to have an XLE or Limited XLE Sienna at a cost far below a normal EXL Odyssey MSRP to change our mind. I would be hard pressed to consider the Sienna again unless I could get an 05 EXL DVD/NAV for about $32,500 or an 05 EXL DVD for about $30,500. Good luck.
After our extensive tests, we no longer feel that the Sienna "does the trick" for us. I don't care anymore about the fake wood interior and such. We feel just as comfortable and special in an 05 Odyssey. We are considering adding NAV to our Odyssey order if possible, which would make the Odyssey as teched out as we want. We have a few quips with the Honda still (no power rear), but we are much more pleased with Style, function, and colors on the Hondas.
I think $500 over invoice is easily doable on the Sienna. Ody will also come down from MSRP soon but the MSRP/invoice spread on the Ody may be a little bit less, I think. One also gets leather steering wheel, fog lights, 2nd and third row sunshades, roofrack cross bars, and a few other goodies on the Sienna which cost extra on the Ody. So, finally it all may come down to ride preference, obviously you favor Honda's ride, then you have no other choice.
The Toyota impresses me with its luxury and smooth ride. I had a Lexus RX330, so I am comfortable with the features on the Toyota. The Toyota has a power passenger seat, and I don't think that Honda offers this feature. I like the sonar park assist and back-up camera. I also like the HID lights. The colors seem "brighter" on the Toyota.
The Honda did seem quicker and handled better than the Toyota. The steering seemed to require greater effort. The Touring had neat aluminum wheels, 18", I believe. The Touring had the "lazy susan" storage in the floor. My Honda salesman said that they hadn't received any Touring models with NAV/DVD. The NAV/DVD package also includes XM radio. I don't think the Toyota offers XM. The Touring stickers at $35,000. The XLE Limited was $40,000. I know the Honda is sold at sticker here in Central Florida.
I may wait to see a Honda with DVD before I decide. I am sure that both are good choices.
Am I wrong?
But like the Sienna when it debuted, you will have to wait a little later for NAV on Ody.
Does he mean "drivers who like to race and turn corners frequently" ?
I like driving and I'm pretty serious about driving.
I will probably prefer the soft/cushy ride of the Sienna over the Ody, but the Ody's NAV & RES win big time if you are into this sort of thing.
Good point.
Nobody should be racing in a Sienna or Ody or any vehicles that are not sports cars!
I think paying MSRP for the Ody RIGHT NOW is really silly.
And paying above MSRP is really retarded.
I prefer the Ody's NAV & RES, but no way on earth would I pay MSRP for the Ody and $3-4K off MSRP on a Sienna.
I plan on buying the Ody at $4K off MSRP (invoice is $4K below MSRP plus $909 dealer hold back) when the Touring w/NAV is more available on dealer lots.
Sure you don't want the NAV for your self enjoyment? I mean the kids get the RES. What about you?
8" NAV screen. 637 voice commands that controls RES, NAV, A/C, CD, Radio. Not even a $70K Lexus LS430/LX470 or a $80K Range Rover or Mercedes G500 has such an awesome NAV as the '05 Ody!!!!!
So if you get NAV, you really truly must get the Ody since the Sienna's NAV is very mediocre at best when compared to the '05 Ody's NAV.
Personally, I like light exterior with dark interior. I have 3 kids and owned Chrysler T&C, Quest... It is much easier to keep the dark interior “clean”. According to studies, light exterior is safer.
USA TODAY's James R. Healey writes the Test Drive column, posted every Friday at: cars.usatoday.com. He has covered cars and the auto industry for USA TODAY since January 1988. From Auroras to VWs, he test drives about 100 cars and trucks a year. Talk live with Jim about his auto reviews and get his opinion on new models.
del city, OK: James, We enjoy your chat. If you have to buy a van which one you choose? 05'Odyssey, Siena, Quest? And why? (assume you don't need 4WD of Siena)
James R. Healey: I'd probably go with Odyssey for its sportier driving characteristics: Crisper steering, firmer brakes, peppier engine (on cheaper fuel), etc.
But, of course, I'd probably not buy a vehicle without AWD or 4x4 for my personal use -- well, maybe the new Mustang.
In other words AWD would be deciding factor.
Come on Honda, offer this important option!!!
I have XM in my 2004 Accord and love it. Don't know if I could live without it now.
Also goes off road. Try that with an Odyssey or Sienna, even the AWD Sienna.
Subaru Outback is quicker, and handles better than both of these Vans.
awesome and thoughtful post. I'm curious why AWD didn't enter into your thoughs seeing that you live in colorado?