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Honda Civic GX
aaaedgarpoe
Member Posts: 107
CNG seems a ‘no-brainer.’ So why is there so limited a selection of autos? If the Civic has side head air bags, I’d get one today. It appears none of the CNG vehicles on the market has side head air bags.
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Comments
I have to disagree about the safety in collision of a CNG powered vehicle. Yes, the fuel tank is more robust, but if it broke in collision, natural gas is more readily combustible than gasoline.
Retail sales of Civic GX and Phill(TM) home refueling system to begin in Spring 2005
It was the Phill that initially got me interested in CNG cars.
Although, CNG is not really a renewable source, I am pretty sure that CNG Civic can run on Methane as well, which can be produced from waste. Just like Ethanol, Methane is a biologically renewable source of energy, and are by products of basterial digestion.
Who knows, maybe something will change?
Now if Honda started offering Diesels in the US, they would have me as a customer. And I don't want an Izuzu diesel, like they have in Europe. It would be nice to have a Honda developed diesel, then I can run it on used frying oil. http://www.greasecar.com/ The only side effect is that people behind me get an unexplained carving for french (freedom) fries. :-)
Who knows what the future may bring?
1. smaller displacement engines with less vehicle weight
2. gas-electric hybrid vehicles (2007)
3. gas-diesel or diesel-like hybrid vehicles (2009)
3. gas-diesel or diesel-like hybrid vehicles (2009)
Problem with hydrogen program is that you need new infrastructure for refueling, while Honda's GX home buy program includes an adaptor for refueling at home. Problem, as you mentioned with NG is that the resources are limited. Hydrogen in the current state of technology is very expensive to produce. Some of the fuel cell technology allows for "on-site" hydrogen production from less volatile alcohols, and petroleum products.
The gas-electric hybrids are not as fuel efficient as people think they are. Yes, on the surface they are producing 50+ MPG, but that is what is visible to the consumer, the production and actual battery charging stages are still consuming energy in vast amounts.
Diesel has one advantage at this point, it can be run on renewable vegetable oil, even used vegetable oil. It will not only relieve the waste constraints on the current food industry, but will also benefit the farmers.
http://www.greasecar.com/
Too bad that these efforts are not supported by the current or future US govenment.
There's no such thing in hybrids. The battery is charged by the gasoline in your tank... which is computed into the 50 MPG figure.
Troy
ACTUALLY, battery in Hybrids is also charged by braking regeneration. So a small portion of the charging costs NO fuel. Don't forget that...
ALL the energy ultimately comes from the tank. If the car is brand-new but the tank is empty, you ain't going nowhere.
ALL the energy does NOT come from fuel. Only when the FUEL is being used to charge the battery.
Look at it this way: if there was NO REGEN energy captured during braking, would the car use more fuel, or would it use less fuel?
(hint: The answer is more fuel.)
This goes back to our discussion on creation versus transformation of energy.
Agreed.
But what was used to speed up the car in the first place? The fuel. If there was no fuel, there'd be no braking. So ultimately *all* of the battery's energy comes directly or indirectly from gasoline.
.
PE (i) + KE (i) = PE (f) + KE (f) - energy loss
gasoline + 0 mph = battery + 0 mph - resistance
As you can see from this simple physics equation, the energy moves from the gasoline to the battery. If gasoline = 0, then battery *must* also equal 0.
.
"actual battery charging stages are still consuming energy in vast amounts"
There's no such thing in hybrids. The battery is charged by the gasoline in your tank... which is computed into the 50 MPG figure.
Troy
I’m still not sure why you would make a point against recycling energy towards productive use.
Very good succinct statement. Rather than wasting the energy lost by braking, the Hybrids capture that energy and re-use it.
It breaks down to this: a car without regen braking and EVERY SINGLE other component EXACTLY the same as another car WITH regen braking, the regen braking car will get higher MPG.
Thus the regen is a good, green, gas-saving feature.
I, too, am confused about someone trying to disrespect the regen braking system - what is the ultimate goal of that argument?
1. Gas for it right now is at $1.50 per gallon and going down quickly. Also it will be cheaper when Phill is available (.90/gallon + electricity costs for compressing) as you will not have to pay the stations for compressing the gas for you.
2. Maintenance cost are much lower due to the fact there is less acid put into the oil from the combustion of gasoline which breaks down the oil (oil changes every 10,000 miles-- with non-synthetic-- oil opposed to every 3000 in normal cars).
3. CNG is safer as said below as there is a narrow range of concentration in air when it will combust - plus the tanks are built to specifications much higher than gasoline tanks. One test was to hit a tank with a train at full speed and the test tanks did not rupture. Also, CNG is lighter than air so if it does escape from the tank it quickly dissipates where gasoline will pool and the vapors easily combust.
4. Carpool lane. As I said above, I travel 30 miles to work through downtown L.A. and I make the trip during rush-hour in less than 45 minutes.
And the GX is only available as a 2-dr, right?
No the GX is only available in the 4-door model.
Doug
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications_descriptions.a- sp?ModelName=Civic+GX&Category=GX+with+ABS
Is the GX only available to certain geographic areas?
Civic GX has been out since the 1996 redesign, where have you people been?
I believe it still has the regular gasoline tank as well, and a switch to go from CNG to gasoline. It goes both ways, basically.
Since there is not enough CNG stations, usage of these vehicles are less. With a device like Phill it should be cheaper and easier.
Ofcourse the cons are the trunk capacity is only half that of regular civic.
As we speak now, there are 3,910,102 CNG powered vehicles according to
http://www.iangv.org/jaytech/default.php?PageID=130
Argentina, Brazil, Pakistan are the leaders.
Phill is coming out in Spring-2005 and Civic-MY-2006 will be offered in CNG version as well in both US & EU. Both these things should make CNG vehicles more popular.
Honda, which has owned almost 20 percent of Toronto-based FuelMaker Corporation since 2000, is working directly with FuelMaker to complete development of Phill(TM), the natural gas home refueling appliance. As part of this alliance, Honda and FuelMaker are announcing plans to begin retail sales of the Phill refueling appliance and Civic GX natural gas vehicle beginning in California in spring 2005. The Civic GX, now in its seventh year of sales in the U.S., has to this point been marketed only to fleets.
Phill is expected to cost $2K.
You are very mistaken.
1. Natural gas is lighter than air so it rises and dispurses. See paragraph 11 at http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/NGVsSafetyBulletin.ht- m
2. While the original GX could be ordered bi-fuel the current GX is dedicated natural gas vehicles. Further, in order to qualify for diamond lane stickers an NGV MUST be a DEDICATED (not bi-fuel) and must meet ILEV (federal standards) and ULEV or SULEV or PZEV (state standards). (see http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/charging/alt_fuels.asp#natural- gas )
Believe me...I have one and made my 1.5 hour commute to a 40 minute commute. I researched these for two years before I bought one.
1. Natural Gas Civic is rated the "Cleanest Internal Combustion Engine" ever tested by CARB.
2. The Civic GX emissions of reactive hydrocarbons driving from Los Angeles to Washington D.C. are less than that of spilling a TEASPOONFUL of gasoline.
3. When Honda and the Federal Governement first tested the NGV Civic the emission equipment could not dectect anything. They had to create more sensitive equipment to measure the emissions.
4. "In highly polluted areas, the air coming out of the GX’s exhaust pipe can actually be cleaner than the air you are breathing."
All from these articles: http://www.greenatworkmag.com/gwsubaccess/01novdec/special.html
http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0401/et0401s13.html
http://www.greenercars.com/12green.html
Also, is there a target price for these or is everyone paying MSRP? I cant find much technical research on them other than how clean of a vehicle it is.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX&bhcp=1
refueling appliance:
http://www.myphill.com/
Also, is there a target price for these or is everyone paying MSRP? I cant find much technical research on them other than how clean of a vehicle it is.
It may not be available in AZ. As far as I know it was sold in "smog states," NY, NJ, CA, MA and others since 1996.
Phill : Its a small device which may hours to fill the tank. A public station should be able to do it in minutes.
CNG-Electric Hybrid : Already CNG adds 5K to the cost, hybrid will add another 3K. People will not come forward to pay 8K upfront cost. Seems Honda sells only 1,000 units of GX in a year. May be with phill, it goes up.
http://www.evrental.com/index.html
I just bought my 2001 Honda Civic GX from them for much cheaper than what you could get from the dealer. It doesn't have a warranty (it's like buying from a private party), but even the local Honda dealer said there was no way for them to match the price.
According to their website, EV Rentals has one green 2001 for sale in Phoenix. You just missed out on the 2001 models - they just had eight of them shipped from Phoenix to Los Angeles. I bought one of them.
I don't know if everyone is aware of all of the incentives of having a CNG car (at least in California). If you live in Los Angeles, you get free parking at meters in the city of Los Angeles, Santa Monica, and Hermosa Beach.
http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/incentives/index.asp?blnBtnHit=true
Just something else that I learned while searching the web.
How does the meter maid know not to give you a ticket? Do you have to go to court to fight the ticket? What if someone placed GX logo on the regular civic, do they still get to park for free?
I would think it easier to install a larger tank. You are already losing a portion of your trunk in the Civic. Many companies have converted regular cars and trucks to run on LNG, CNG or propane while still giving the option of using regular gas. There are not a lot of places to get CNG or LNG. Also the price is not as good as it once was. I don't believe I would buy a CNG vehicle if I did not have natural gas into my home and could get a refueling appliance like the PHILL.
http://www.myphill.com/
I have Civic GX which I am considering buying but would like to know if anyone
managed to find place where they would add second tank so range can be increased
from 170 miles or so .
Also on same topic would like to know if anyone does CNG conversions, I know
these are common place in India, China and New Zealand
Also advantage for me is use of carpool lane. The disadvantage I have is short range.
Volkswagen has developed a car that can run on either CNG or gasoline! You use CNG at home, and gasoline when driving long distances.
troy
Volkswagen has developed a car that can run on either CNG or gasoline! You use CNG at home, and gasoline when driving long distances.
troy
Here is another idea, Honda developed the GX for the 1996 redesign. If Honda did not change it for the 2001 redesign, GX runs on both, NG and gasoline.
"Powered exclusively by compressed natural gas (CNG)..."
http://www.ngv.org/ngv/ngvorg01.nsf/bytitle/HondaCivicGX.htm
troy