Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Yep, and my plan is to put it back to original, but with the updates GM should have done, ie anti-squeak pads between the panels. These things squeak and creak like a buckboard, and just the felt pads that were used on later models will take care of it. It will need some repair on the trim panels that were damaged by whoever replaced the speakers.

    Which really ticks me off. I have looked at a lot of these where the original speakers were pulled out and "upgraded". The originals, while marked Delco, were actually done by Bose. When I can find an original, the sound systems really sound good, but they don't have the trim rattling bass that todays youngsters seem to think makes a good sound system.

    :mad:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '53 Dodge---seems pricey to me for an old slug though. Nobody wants these cars, they aren't terribly attractive and well, a FLATHEAD with fluid drive? Eh.....no thanks.

    442 Clone -- seems like a decent price. A real one would cost you a lot more.

    2004 SMART CAR --- so a 4 year old microcar that gets about the same average mileage as a 2008 Yaris 4-door sedan but for $10,000 more?

    Yes, I will hold my breath.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    442 Clone - If the body's good, I'd almost consider it, but I'd actually rather have the hardtop. I do think the Cutlass is one of the best looking cars of that time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Looks like the car has had a lot done to it. One would need to see the quality of the components and the installation however. Sometimes these "modified" cars are all screwed up and the systems installed are not well thought out beforehand.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    May not be "classic", but it's definitely a Collector's Edition. And it would say so right on the hood ornament! :P I still see the 4-door models pretty regularly, but the coupes seem pretty scarce these days. IIRC, they actually were popular when new, though. Oddly, the coupe versions of the Delta 88 and LeSabre tended to be more popular, as a percentage of total production, at least, than coupe versions of the Caprice/Impala, or Crown Vic and Grand Marquis. And Pontiac's big coupes were enough of a dud that once Pontiac started building big cars again with the Parisienne, they didn't even bother to resurrect the coupe. I think the Caprice/Impala even dropped the coupe model for one year, perhaps 1982. And when it came back, it was just the Caprice. No Impala version.

    Maybe one reason that the LeSabre/Delta coupes were pretty popular was because the stylists gave them more of an upscale, personal luxury coupe grace to them. They just seem more elegant, somehow, than the Caprice/Impala. And I always thought the big Ford coupes were odd, boxy looking things.

    That LeSabre looks really well-equipped, too, with the leather seats and power adjustments on the passenger seat. Our '85 sedan had crushed velour. And while it had a power adjust for the recline, otherwise the passenger seat just had manual fore/aft. Another thing I like about the leather-equipped Buicks back then was that they usually had cloth/velour on the door panels. I thought that gave them a nice, upscale look. Nowadays, when you get a car with leather, usually the door inserts are just a poorly mismatched vinyl. Or worse, plastic.

    I've also sworn I'd never get another white car, after having a white Dart going on 16 years now, and a stepdad who almost always bought white cars. I think it looks nice on that LeSabre, though.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Just got an estimate on how much it will take to get my 1988 Park Avenue refinished from my body shop: $3,216.00!!! I love the car, but am not THAT sentimental about it! Can Maaco do at least a tolerable job on it? I'm not talking about the cheapskate mask & spray special advertised on television.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I think that Shifty would tell you that $3,200 is already a bargain-priced paint job. :shades:

    james
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Indeed it is, if it's a good job. The LABOR to do a good paint job is enormous, and that's what you are paying for....a man's time to do painstakingly tedious, dirty, toxic, boring work for a couple of days, to prep the car right. If the prep isn't right, even Rembrandt can't make the paint look good.

    Maaco skips the hard part....the prep....and either uses a broom or a vacuum cleaner to throw paint at the car.

    Some people INSIST a Maaco job looks okay, and it MIGHT (for a short time) because the painter is skilled with his gun....but since they have skimped on both the prep and the paint quality, the job simply will not endure.

    I have spent more on MATERIALS for a paint job than Maaco charges for the whole job. That should tell you something.

    Here's my opinion: Maaco is better than bare metal on a disposable car. They serve a market, to their credit, just like Wal Mart or Safeway does. You want a block of cheese made out of petroleum by products, fine.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Lemko, did something happen to your Park Ave (like an accident or something), or is the paint just peeling so bad that you want to get it re-done? Since the sides of the car still look good, maybe you could get them to just re-spray the hood, rear deck, and roof/pillars, and then just use a pinstripe to blend in the seam.

    I've heard that Maaco paintjobs are actually decent, IF you have someone else prep the car. If you can hold out until April, maybe we could find you a nice replacement beater at Spring Carlisle.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    That's what my old MB specialist did with a couple cars - he did the body and prep work himself, and then would send the car to a particular Maaco painter he knew, who would then do one of their high line jobs. He was always happy with the work, and this way would get a job done for around 1500, plus his labor. I had thought about having this done to the fintail, but I am still attached to keeping the old paint, it's good from 10 feet anyway.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I had thought about having this done to the fintail, but I am still attached to keeping the old paint, it's good from 10 feet anyway.

    I've thought about it with some of my cars too, but none of them are bad enough (in my opinion, at least) to really justify the cost of a new paintjob. I have thought about getting some work done on my truck, though. It has some rust in the lower parts of the doors, and where the rocker panel joins the back part of the cab. I figure if I could get the rust taken care of, and maybe just have the white parts of the truck re-done, and leave the red alone, it wouldn't look too bad.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah but the paint they put on is still the cheapest crab imaginable.

    If you do the prep yourself, AND bring Maaco the paint, well then maybe.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    That might be it, he would supply the paint.

    I am sure you have seen it too, it's really hard to get MB paint right, on an old or newer car. They have always used pretty high quality paint, and most non-serious people are not willing to spend the money...and you can spot it.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    I wonder how many of those cheapo MBs are flood cars....
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My girlfriend was busting on me Saturday, "This car really needs paint!" No fooling, Captain Obvious? It's just peeling so bad, I just want to get it done, but I want it done right. I'm also afraid the paint will peel down to the bare metal as I've seen a Century with the same condition with a lot of surface rust. I've also seen Park Ave's of my car's vintage with cheap paint jobs and they look BAD.

    The $3,216 price WAS just for the top surfaces. These guys will do a good job. Shoot, their work looks better than the original factory finishes on cars and a lot of new car dealers send cars that were damaged in transport to them.

    If the car was in an accident, I'd just keep driving it until I could find me a nice replacement beater. The car pukes a transmission or something, it's off to Buick City in the sky.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    The car pukes a transmission or something, it's off to Buick City in the sky.

    Yeah, but if it pukes the transmission AFTER it gets a $3200 paint job, you might want to reconsider! I don't think that style transmission is terribly expensive. Maybe $1000? That's cheap these days for a transmission.

    Heck, give the girlfriend a couple cans of blue spraypaint, send her outside, and tell her to have fun. :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I'm not opposed to the notion of spending something more than the retail value on a car that one really likes, but with limits. In my view, spending >$3,000 on this car crosses the line, even though I like this generation of GM large bodies. If it were my car, I'd either resign myself to drive it as is, or sell or donate it to someone who will enjoy it for what it is. Just as I wouldn't invest in an engine overhaul (a transmission, maybe, maybe not), I wouldn't spend 150% of the retail value on body work.

    Springing for an expensive paint job infers that you're prepared to keep this car in top condition, and doing that is too expensive, over time. I'd consider a Maaco paint job, lemko, but only if the result would be acceptable to you, and if the purpose was to extend the useful life of the vehicle for economic reasons. I sense you wouldn't be satisfied with a basic Maaco repaint, however.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Paint should be the last thing you do to a car, not only to avoid mechanical breakdowns, but also to keep from screwing up the new paint when you have to do heavy repairs on a freshly painted car.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Yeah, I just took a look to see what $3k would do on Ebay, but all I came up with were '88 Reattas...odd. But that's a good point - what could you get as a replacement for paint money plus the $$ from sale of the current car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    and found a 1992 Roadmaster for $1225. The initial little picture didn't look bad, but when I looked closer, the amount of rust on it looked like it was in the same league with Vegas, early Accords, 1976 Volares, etc. Interior's pretty ratty, too. here it is, if anyone wants to take a look. I didn't think they still knew how to build cars that rusted out that quickly. :sick: I guess the Ohio winters no doubt helped, though.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    There's a lot of road salt poured on the highways in Northern states, due to the frequency and volume of snow and ice. Considering that some salt remains on the road and atmosphere after the last load is spread, since it takes many days or weeks for it to all be washed away, this also means that it there are fewer days of the year when cars are relatively free from corrosive elements, of course. Further, that Roadbastard, er master, may have been owned by someone who washed his car infrequently. I know someone who only washes his cars in Spring through Fall, reasoning that they'll only get salt and road grime on them again soon anyway.

    It occurred to me that the '92 Roadmaster is what one buys after the '90 Park Avenue dies. It also occurred to me that a '92 Roadmaster is the polar opposite of a Shiftymobile.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    "Roadbastard", I like that one. I always took to calling them "Roadhazzard" :shades: There was a pretty green '96 for sale at Carlisle back in fall 2004 I think. It was sort of a grayish/green color, leather interior, sunroof, about 85,000 miles. I think the seller wanted $4995 or $5995 for it. I was tempted by it, but decided to pass, as my Intrepid only had a few months of payments left.

    Now that I think about it, there was also a nice 1977 or 78 Olds 98 coupe for sale at that particular swap meet. The seller only wanted $1400 for it. The only glaring fault was that the landau top vinyl was tearing, but he had replacement vinyl in the trunk. I dunno how much it would've cost to have that put on. It also wasn't the most attractive color, brown with a beige vinyl top. And it was fairly basic, with just a 350 V-8 and a 2-way power bench seat. It went forward and back, but that was it. No up/down or fore/aft tilt. I guess a 350 would be adequate in one of these cars, but I'd rather have a 403.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Wow, GM's badge-engineering got really bad by that time. If I didn't know better, I'd say that 1980 Malibu was actually a Cutlass! ;)
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Oh, and it has a "diesiel" too. :sick:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    Speak of the devil

    This guy has been trying to sell for a few weeks
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Good lord, that ad copy cracks me up. I wonder if any of us would be "worthy" of that car! I'd take it if it was free, but that's about it. My '82 Cutlass with that engine was gutless enough; I can't imagine how bad it would be with the heavier wagon body!

    My grandparents had an '82 Malibu wagon with the Chevy 229 V-6. Roughly the same hp, 110, but I think the 229 actually had less torque than the 231! They had gone from a '72 Impala with a 350, so they were definitely going through V-8 withdrawal when they had that car.
  • steven922steven922 Member Posts: 49
    for all you Mercedes fans here, here is a "project"

    http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/car/551100744.html
  • ryan77300dryan77300d Member Posts: 64
    I wonder if that "pontoon" comes with the outboard motor it had when they floated it up from the bottom of the lake...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    Indeed...that is easily the worst ponton cabrio I have ever seen, and possibly the worst of all pontons I have ever seen. Shame.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Too bad they wasted the pics on the body - wonder what the 'rebuilt' engine looks like?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    I like the 'gangster' angle too...sorry, a 25 year old intermediate GM station wagon is about as "gangster" as...well, a 25 year old intermediate GM station wagon.

    I never liked that style. The sedans and coupes were OK for the period, but that wagon rear end with the lights in the bumper has always irked me.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I actually like that style of wagon...except for those rear bumpers like you mentioned! Oh, and the stupid stationary rear door windows.

    In 7th and 8th grade I went to a private school, where you had to pay extra for the bus, so a group of parents in our neighborhood formed a carpool. There were 4 other families. One of 'em had a '77 Aspen wagon, another a '78 or so Volare, an '82 or so Electra Estate wagon Diesel, and another that alternated between an early 80's Electra coupe and an early 80's Riv. My mom & stepdad both worked, and Grandmom was still working, so my Granddad drove us. Usually he just drove us all in his '76 GMC crew cab, but a few times he'd drive the Malibu. Believe it or not, those housewives went ga-ga over that Malibu! Especially the one with the '77 Aspen, which even by '83-84 was really starting to show its age. I think Granddad ended up telling her what a POS this Malibu was, though. He always hated the gutless V-6 engine, and by that time I think it had fried its first ECU. Still, I thought it was a pretty car, in midnight blue metallic, with its chrome roof rack and its contact-paper ploodgrain accents.

    I wonder, if Grandmom & Granddad had bought a V-8 instead, if they would have kept it longer? The main reason they got rid of it was because the ECU fried itself a second time...but I guess that could've happened on a V-8 car just as easily as a V-6. The '85 LeSabre that replaced that car ended up being probably the most reliable, long-lived car they ever had, but I guess that Malibu was just a victim of the times. 1981-82 was an especially bad timeframe for GM cars because those ECUs were in their infancy. And models with the 4-speed automatic overdrive were prone to failure as well in those early years.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    It's funny, I never knew those cars had stationary rear door windows until you mentioned it. That same bumper issue irks me on the period El Caminos too. As a strange aside about those cars, when I was a little kid I liked the 6-window sedan models, the 78-80 that were the inspiration for the 00-04 Avalon. Somehow, that extra window was an interesting styling cue in my 6 year old eyes.

    It must have been shock for your grandparents going from a V8 to a gutless emissions -choked 6. I have to imagine it was somewhat easier for my mother, who ca. 1984 (I've forgotten the year again) went from a big ca. 1975 T-Bird she bought new, to a Ciera. The T-Bird was looking pretty tired by then too, cars do age better today. A little later, my grandma went from a big ca. 1978 Olds 88 to a 1986 Olds 98 - and she loved that new car as it was smaller and easier for her to see out of and park. I recall it also shared a lot of switchgear with the Ciera.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    That LTD may have a 5.0, but it isn't in the car. That, or someone put in hydraulics and they are stuck in the 'up' position.

    I could think of other reasons it's nose is in the air, but my best guess would be no motor.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Hmm, I didn't even notice that the front end was sticking up a bit. I also notice now that the car also appears to have the undersized 14" rims that came standard.

    Except for having its nose up in the air, it doesn't look like a bad car. GM's big coupes were much more smoothly styled IMO, but there's a certain quirkiness about these Ford coupes that I kinda like.

    Also, I don't know how Ford managed to do this, but I swear those 1979-91 style Panther bodies were more comfy and felt more roomy than the 1992 and newer ones! They also seemed a lot more plush back then, too. Nowadays they just seem like copcars and taxi cabs inside. Perhaps because that's been their main clientele for years now?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I had a 1979 Ford LTD taxicab. This was the one that had single headlamps and smaller lamps in the grille, while the upscale LTD had four headlamps.

    I also had a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS which really was a nice car with the alloy "turbine" wheels and blue leather interior. It was essentially a Lincoln Town Car with the Mercury nameplate on it. Around the time I bought my 2002 Cadillac Seville STS, I considered a new Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate and felt it was hardly as nice as the 1989 model. The '89 just seemed screwed together tighter, the leather felt better, and the materials seemed more upscale.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    I didn't notice the front end either...maybe someone put some weird shocks on it or something? I remember back in the early 90s my dad bought a ca 70K mile 68 Fairlane out of an estate, and it had a 289 - the front on that car sat kinda high too.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good Lord you guys. I'd just take every car in the last ten posts and bulldoze them into a heap.

    I think we should have a $500 contest sometime. Everybody gets to submit one $500 or less car that they found on the Internet, that they think could drive coast to coast AS IS, and then we get to vote on how likely that is to happen.

    We must have faith that the $500 car is not dead in America. If anyone likes the idea, maybe we should do this in a separate topic, or do it here? Suggestions?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    The $500 car topic could be fun, but it might not have a long life, so I'd try it here first. If it turns out the topic has legs you can separate it. Just my 2 cents.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,799
    my guess is the tires are way too small for the car and the rearend is sagging a bit, as opposed to the front being in the air.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I did a quick look at the Seattle Craigslist for $100-500. Man what a load of non-running crap:
    ran when parked
    won't shift out of 1st
    needs water pump
    needs battery
    needs tires/tabs/engine/transmission
    and 27 cases of "blown head gasket" (what's up with THAT?)
    I didn't find anything that I would trust to drive across town, much less across country! :sick:

    It's a challenge!!! "I'm on a mission from Shifty!" :shades:
    (my apologies to The Blues Brothers and God)

    james
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I think we should have a $500 contest sometime. Everybody gets to submit one $500 or less car that they found on the Internet, that they think could drive coast to coast AS IS, and then we get to vote on how likely that is to happen.

    I dunno if I'd trust it cross-country, but this beast made the ~115 mile trip from Middletown, PA back to my place with no issues, and I only paid $500 for it. Now once I finally get it tuned up, new belts, hoses, maybe a new battery, and a coolant flush and tranny service, I'd probably trust it cross-country. But I'd have a lot more than $500 in it then!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,643
    If you bump the price up a little, there are better candidates. I suppose one might be able to negotiate on the prices

    These seem to last a while

    Could be a gamble

    Who knows...I sense transmission problems on these

    This might make it

    Risky

    Maybe

    Probably not

    Funny

    Possibly

    Could be

    This could work

    And there are hundreds more in the 500-700 range...asking price...I have to believe 5 Franklins waved in the sellers face would own many of these
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Yeah, I'm sure that $500 would buy many of those. Grandma's Skylark looked promising. But we have to draw the line somewhere. Shifty?
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