Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Disagreeing with shifty isn't something I do lightly.... but I think it's gotta be worth closer to $3 if it's nice and rust free. Not that it's special, and I understand it's ancient, but 50k miles?! That's extremely low; just enough to keep the car exercised.

    Now if it needs stuff, I'd argue you don't want it at all, but if i stands tall, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone with, uh, mature tastes who wants it. I know I could in my (GM) town.

    -Mathias
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    well you can certainly disagree---I'm only going by the various price guides, which slam the car pretty hard in value. Edmunds price guides thinks it's worth $1,500 maximum! And here I thought I was being GENEROUS.

    http://www.edmunds.com/used/1992/buick/roadmaster/513/options.html

    Here's one with low miles and a $2,500 asking price. I bet you could get it for $2,000.

    92 Buick for Sale

    No way I'd pay much more for it. These are have little value.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Hmm, I actually like that one on Craigslist better than the one I saw at Carlisle. I really like that greenish color, and I like those wheels better than the wire hubcaps on the one I saw. Dunno if I'm willing to go all the way to SanFran for one, though. :surprise:
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    the guides never deduct enough for high miles... and they don't add enough for low miles. Plus, the "average" 92 RoadBlock is in the junkyard...

    Shifty's right that it's no great prize... it all depends on the local market. The weird thing about the used-car business is that the professionals have all the information... but the buyers determine the value of any car by paying up... or not.

    Terry's creed was to always step up to the plate for the nicest cars with the lowest mileage. So let the record show that if I wanted one, I'd pay $3 in a heartbeat for the one you were describing. If we're spending your $$$, so much the better.

    -Mathias
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm not fully in line with Terry about low miles. That can be just as much a problem as high miles. It depends on how constantly the car was in use I think. Besides, this is a transportation car, so why pay a premium for low miles when one's intention is to put a lot of miles on it?

    No harm at $3,000 for a pristine car, but that's about the limit.

    I'd lowball the car and then walk away.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    and no this is not one I am going to buy but I had to post it here just because it is such a hot looking bike.

    MV Agusta Brutale 750
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    WOW! It's no Harley Hog, that's for sure.

    Not sure I could tell someone I drove a "Brutale" with a straight face. (means "beast" basically).
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah my Italian is pretty rough but I figured it was something close to beat. Don't you think it is a fitting name though?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't know. Italian bikes are generally very svelt, great handling, light, very fast---the antithesis of the American beast bike. I wonder how much it weighs, HP, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    That W123 coupe is a lowline carb Euro model. It is uncommon, but not very desirable. It's wearing incorrect wheels, has those chrome fender lips that always hide rust, and it mentions other rust. I am also not convinced about the paint. Probably not a viable project. The most valuable W123 coupes are the late turbo diesels. A gas FI model with a manual (Euro) might have some enthusiast wanting it, but they aren't worth a fortune either way.

    A "Greased" Mustang makes me think "Lawn Guyland".

    Interior on that Plymouth looks like some badgers got into it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '67 Ranchero -- less than half of asking price would be plenty. I saw a pretty nice one just sell for $5,500. Same year, same color. And I heard it drove really nicely.

    79 Benz 230C -- $1,500--$2,000 would be more than enough and then you're only starting to throw money at it. But you would be the only one on your block---forever.

    5.0 Mustang -- most are thrashed mercilessly into a wheezing bucket of bolts---the grilled gas pedal and recently mashed and repaired T5 does not bode well here. A test drive and an eyeball will tell all in 15 minutes.

    68 Plymouth Fury -- eh, a 4-door, 318 sedan formerly used as a chicken coop? No, I don't think this car needs to be saved except for parts for more worthy '68s. Parts!
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    How good is your technical Italian?

    or just scroll to the bottom where everything is in English.

    Weight is about 400 lbs and 125 horsepower.

    http://www.mvagustausa.com/web-mvagusta/Brutale_Serie_Oro.html
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    "Weight is about 400 lbs and 125 horsepower."
    Need to get them to work on my Suburban...5000 lbs, so, what, 1500 hp? That'll do :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's quite a power to weight ratio! I'll take it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,957
    how about this?
    black horse
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Definitely mo' bettah than the other one but it might pogo-stick on bumpy roads. Looks like he really stiffened it up for flat road cornering.

    It's a fairly primitive chassis with many limitations. But still, not a bad ride for the $$$, not bad at all. I'd give it a second look.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    This 1977.5 Can Am is a beautiful car, but are they seriously getting this pricey? I think I've seen this one on eBay before.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that one is so unusual I wouldn't put it into the regular price structure. Usually arond $18,000 is all the money for a restored car but this one only has 15,000 miles on it.

    I guess if you want the world's newest '77 Can Am, then there you go. Exactly what you do with it after that, I'm not sure.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    "Exactly what you do with it after that, I'm not sure. "

    Just don't drive it!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,957
    color is pretty close to it's namesake, i think.
    probably not original, but a lot of work was put into it.

    old cat
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Maybe it's staring me in the face and I don't see it, but what year is it?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    You're right - I think it's a 1970.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,439
    This doesn't even look that good in the pics I mean.. 13 grand???????

    This looks good but it still hasn't doubled in value since new It is an 87 el camino. Who cares? Does this guy know all the cars that you can get for 28 grand???

    This on the other hand looks pretty reasonable
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I might be willing to pony up $1300 for that '74 Impala, but $13500 is just crazy! Maybe if it was in immaculate condition, had the big-block 454, and was at least a hardtop coupe and not that awkward fixed-window style where it looks like they took the front half and back half of two totally different cars and forced them together.

    Those big '71-76 era Impalas and Caprices are starting to get a following among the hiphop/pimp-my-ride/bling-bling crowd, but I dunno if that's enough to jack up the value on this one to anywhere near its asking price.

    And that '87 El Camino SS is totally off the charts, too. Again, they do have their following, but I don't think it's anywhere near enough to push their value up this high. Also, it's not like it had a high performance engine or anything. While the Monte SS had a hopped up 305-4bbl with 180 hp, I'm pretty sure the El Camino just had a mild 4-bbl with 150 hp. Starting in 1985, it put out 165 hp in full-sized cars like the Caprice and Parisienne, and in pickup trucks, but in midsizers like the Bonneville G, non-SS Monte Carlo, El Camino, and Grand Prix, it just stayed at 150 hp. I'm guessing there was something more restrictive about the intake or exhaust on the midsized cars.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I'm not fully in line with Terry about low miles. That can be just as much a problem as high miles. It depends on how constantly the car was in use I think. Besides, this is a transportation car, so why pay a premium for low miles when one's intention is to put a lot of miles on it?

    Yeah, that's just it...if I were to buy this Roadmaster, it would be my main ride, replacing my Intrepid. Now with the way I drive these days, I'd probably only put about 5,000 miles per year on it, so it would take another 10 years for it to reach 100K! I'd try to take reasonable care of it to make it last as long as possible, but I'd have no delusions of trying to preserve it for all eternity, such as with my '57 DeSoto or '67 Catalina.

    Since I got back from Carlisle, I've driven my Intrepid to work a couple times, and, as luck would have it, the stalling problem is not repeating itself. I have my "new" '79 NYer at the mechanic right now to fix its occasional refusal to start, and when that one's done, I'm going to drop off the Intrepid and see if he can figure out what's wrong with it. So for the time being, I'm trying to push that '92 Roadmaster out of my mind. If the Intrepid comes back with some fatal repair estimate, I might be tempted. Or, I might just unload it, save some money on insurance by cutting it from the fleet, and just switch back and forth between my two NYers for daily transportation. Even though they're a bit thirsty, the ~$550 per year in insurance that the Intrepid is costing me, plus the savings of not buying another car to replace it, can buy an awful lot of gas!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, my 1988 Park Ave is due to go into inspection next month, but I've got that annoying "Check Engine Light." I've got to see what's up with it. Hopefully it won't be frightfully expensive. If so, if you don't want that Roadmaster, I might be interested. The only thing that bugs me is that his $4,800 asking price seems a bit high. I'd be more interested in one of the 1994-96 LT-1 cars at that price.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I'm most likely going to pass on that Roadhazzard, Lemko. So if you want, I'll email you the seller's info. I'm at work right now so I don't have it with me.

    Funny, but that $4800 actually didn't seem like a bad price to me, at first. Until this forum brought me back down to reality! :shades:
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Thats what we are here for.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The only problem is, the weight of the tank and 115 gallons of fuel would tend to decrease the fuel economy of your Civic.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I'm betting it wouldn't do much for the longevity of the suspension, either! :P
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    My car:

    1998 BMW 323ic
    Convertible
    2.5L I6, 5 speed manual
    RWD
    Mileage: 77,112
    Black exterior, black roof, and tan interior
    Sports package, leather, dual zone climate control. I think it has everything.
    The paint is very good, but has a few minor dings that are mainly visible because its a black car. Top is excellent. Interior is excellent.
    Tires are 90%. ZR Continentals on flawless 16" Z3 wheels
    Brakes - good
    Maintenance - good, new framework and motor for the convertible top
    Squeaky clean carfax, no paintwork


    The response:

    Trade is prob going to be in the $5-6,000 range.
    You should be able to do far better selling it privately.


    It is nearly identical to this one.

    This got me thinking about at what point private party values and trade in values start to get really far apart. In my case, private party is nearly twice that of trade in.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    You might also check 'completed items' for this on Ebay - gives you an idea of what the market is, as opposed to the (sometimes optimistic) asking prices.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    eBay seems to put cars similar to mine in the 9,500-11,500 range. The higher range seems to be from nice dealerships that offer financing, shipping, etc. The low range seems to be cars with very sparse information, making me wonder about paintwork, carfax, illuminated warning lights, etc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you went on Autotrader and asked for ALL ads from all over the country for your car (using advanced search), you'd come up with the AVERAGE asking price at the bottom of the page. If you get maybe 150 hits, this average will tend to smooth out the spikier ads that are too high and too low. You'd be amazed how accurate this method can be for a "starting price".
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The answer is:

    For exactly 100 cars -

    Range of prices within this search:

    Highest Price: $18,975
    Lowest Price: $ 7,800
    Average Price: $11,913

    Figure people will give you perhaps a 10% discount from their asking price, making it around $10,721
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    "Figure people will give you perhaps a 10% discount from their asking price, making it around $10,721 "

    And that matches up well with the Ebay prices you quoted. Sounds like you got the ##.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You might, in reality, have to shave more off that price because it's a tough market right now; also a factor might be the color. I'd say $9995 is a price where you'll get some calls.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Which gets me back to the original question - at what point do private party values and trade-ins get completely out of whack?

    Andre probably has cars that a dealer wouldn't give him $200 for scrap value, but he could sell them on eBay for $3-4,000.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Some cars are of little value to dealers. They buy only what a) they can sell fast and b) make a good profit on. They are not enthusiasts or car lovers, they are "dealers", so their point of view is very different.

    Dealers play the odds, private party buyers don't.

    So if the car is not a hot re-seller, the dealers' interest wanes and he offers less for it.

    Another factor is reconditioning. I have found that many private sellers are somewhat clueless as to what it will take to recon their cars. They look at bumper scratches and dings as nothing, dirty carpets as "just needing a vacuum", dirty engines as "it looks fine to me" and tires as "they still have some tread on them"---whereas the dealer sees $1,000 bucks to shape the car up and get top dollar.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Andre needs another old barge like this
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    " Strap this on the back of your Civic and you can drive for months."

    Yup, nothing like re-inventing the Pinto - perfect for roasting marshmallows after a rear collision. :surprise:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    That '77 Mark V actually looks like a steal for that price. Especially with the 460. And it looks like it has a sunroof, too. That silver color looks nice on it. At $1500 though, makes me wonder what's wrong with it!
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    These Jags are getting really cheap. Do they have any known major problems (other than that they are Jaguars).
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Only two serious issues I know of with the early XKs and XJs are the timing chain tensioner problem and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil issue with early XJs and XKs.

    By now most of those problems should be sorted out. I would make sure the timing chain tensioner has been replaced with the correct updated parts. I doubt a XJ-V8 with the Nikasil issue could have survived to almost 100,000 miles.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V8_engine
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    It's owned by a 20 year old, so I am sure it hasn't always been babied...then again, I think you had your DeSoto at that age, and I had my fintail for a couple years at that age...so maybe it isn't so bad. Too heavy to really get crazy with, maybe.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Maybe the low price results from the combination of 460 cid + $3.50/gallon for a car without wide appeal, even though it looks good?

    edit - I read that recent used big SUVs are piling up on dealers' lots, to the point where they don't want them. Same problem, maybe?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, I was only 20 when I bought my DeSoto. Fall of 1990. I was in college, living with my grandmother, and didn't have a job...yet somehow it seemed like I had more disposable income! Probably because I didn't have obligations back then like property taxes, mortgage payments, utilities, etc.

    Those Mark V's are big, bulky cars, although I think they actually are about 500-600 pounds lighter than the Mark IV. From what I've experienced riding with my buddy who has the two '78 Diamond Jubilee models, they're still powerful enough to scare ya. Of course, the bouncy suspension, Andrea Doria-esque body listing every time you make a lane change, etc, only exaggerates the experience.

    I guess if a wild, aggressive driver can get crazy behind the wheel of ANY car, but hopefully that 20 year old has taken care of that Mark. I was always fairly gentle with my '57 DeSoto, but part of that reason was probably because it doesn't have seatbelts! But then, when I bought that car, I realized that it was something I wanted to keep around for a long, long time, so even if it did have seatbelts, I probably wouldn't have been too rough on it.
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