Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,665
    Yep the big V8 is known to be pretty bulletproof as it is unstressed...I can believe it. A few years ago before I bought the C43 I saw a 99 E55 with 150K on it...it had held up well. The cars have a few problem areas as that article mentions, but they aren't too bad, and they do drive pretty nice.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Alfa and BMW indeed produce some of Europe's coolest cars. I hope Alfa returns to the U.S., finally. The reintroduction date keeps getting pushed back. Anyway, thanks for sharing what you're up to with your Giulia Super. It looks really sharp.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    From the same article, I'd like to find the really nice NSX for $25K. I am not saying it can't be done, but I don't think it would be easy.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    Received an email through craigslist this morning. I thought it was a realistic response until I got to the end of it. I did reply, however.

    Good morning. I am interested in your 86' Alfa Spider Veloce. I have a few questions I hope you can answer. I appreciate all the detail in your craigslist add.

    1) Is there any rust remaining in the vehicle?
    2) Does the car have a clear (non salvage) title?
    3) Is the roof vinyl or cloth?
    4) I believe you say all electrical works, but windows role down slowly (correct)?
    5) A/C does not work, but do you have an estimate on repair?
    6) Does the heat work?
    7) Does the car travel straight? Has it been involved in an accident?
    7) Would you entertain $3,500.00?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Your response should be "Yes, I found your joke about the $3,500 offer quite entertaining."
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    hehe. Yeah, that's probably what I should have said.
    But here was my response.
    Honestly, I didn't even READ that last one until after I typed answers to the first 7. Wish I had and saved my time.

    Thanks for your interest. I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can.

    1. There is no rust on the body or floors. However, it seems there are inner rocker panels that have rust. How this affects the car, I can't say. I don't know enough about bodywork to judge if the inner rockers would pose any sort of problem.
    2. The title is clean and clear.
    3. It is vinyl.
    4. That is correct.
    5. I do not. I've never had the desire to repair it.
    6. Yes. It has been a long time since I drove it in cold weather, however. I could check again if you are interested.
    7. The car drives straight. It has never been in an accident since I've owned it. But it does predate Carfax, so I can't tell you if the previous owner was in an accident or not.
    8. No.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    well work with every potential buyer is my advice. Keep his contact info. If your ad grows cold in a few weeks, contact him and offer it for $4950 or so. You never know. Don't shut any doors.

    As for the rust, the more delicate the description of it the better. I usually describe rust as either "surface" or "some rust bubbles" or the dreaded "perforation". If there's no perforated rust, this is good to mention I think.

    As for the AC question, you could respond by saying "the compressor is not seized". This is actually good news for someone.

    Heater would be good to test so you can say YES with confidence. Winter's comin'!

    Well at least they're biting. Good luck.

    Most important thing---encourage them to COME SEE THE CAR before you even discuss anything about price. Don't say yes, no, whatever...if they won't come see the car, they are not serious buyers so this is a good tactic for you, to hit them with that request right off.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,665
    Hmmm...I think the 4 door is cooler than the Spider :P

    Can't be many of those Giulias left on the road in NA
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    True 'nuff.

    i'm not sure how to describe inner rockers. I mean, I THINK that's what is rusted. I don't know what else it could be. Do these even have inner rockers? It certainly isn't the outter rockers, as those are very solid and the paint still perfect. And it certainly ain't the floorpans since those have been replaced. It is some sort of sheet metal that is behind the outter rockers but below where the floorpans attach to the sills. ???

    Is the non-seized compressor just tested by spinning the pulley?

    BTW, 2 responses so far on Alfabb. Both positive and both "want to buy" but both are not immediately in the market. Hmmmm... But I am encouraged by not getting negative responses so far. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah just spin the pulley.

    Can you SEE any rust? If not, forget about it.

    Peugeot -- cool car, but it's only worth maybe $750. No parts, no service anymore. It's all dried up in the USA.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    Well, it's not really 'spin the pulley' to test the compressor. I couldn't see from your pics what kind is on the Alfa, so let's use this for an example:
    image

    You need to try and turn the clutch (the nearest thing to us in the pic), not the pulley. If the clutch is not engaged, the pulley will spin, seized or not.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,665
    I know a guy who bought an NSX a couple years ago for just north of 25K I think...but it did have some mods which I am sure purists frown upon, and I am sure yellow isn't the most valued color.

    For the scope of that article, it takes a bit less to buy a W210 E55....25K would buy one of the best examples remaining, one better than my car. A genuinely nice one should be able to be found for around 20K. High-milers and neglected examples can be found down around 12-15K. I have seen W211 E55 (supercharged) cars with asking prices below 30K nowadays, but early examples don't have a great reliability rep.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    well, I can see it if I crawl underneath.
    Does that count?

    You can actually see it in this pic in the top-left corner. I believe you can see the bottom edge of the outter rocker, and then there is that bit of rustiness, crustiness there. Maybe 1/2" wide?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That doesn't look very serious.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I could probably find you a higher miles NSX for that money.

    Here's one with 74K, one owner, asking $26.9. I'm sure you could haggle it down to $25K.

    NSX on the Cheap

    I found 8 NSXs in the $25K-$28K range on Autotrader, and most of them looked pretty darn good.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    so what would you call that? is that an inner rocker?
    would you not mention it at all when someone asks?
    Just say its rust-free?
    Or I guess I could stand by my ad. "Like the ad says, all bodywork and floors redone and are rust-free." Because, after all, inner rockers aren't body or floor, are they?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    I looked at all those shots, and I didn't see anything that looked like significant rust to me - am I missing something? You should have see the rockers on my dad's old '72 Maserati Indy - he pulled pounds of rust out of those.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Just say that you don't know, because you don't. People are supposed to check these things for themselves and draw their own conclusions I think. It's a 20 year old car and there's no reason to apologize for it, right?
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    I just got the link for your revised ad to work-- WAY better ad IMO.

    None of my business, but how much do you have in it, & what's your "bottom line" for selling? The $3500 guy, if he's real, & showed up with 35--$100 bills, or you could get him up to $4K, what would you do?

    Personally, I've found it hard to be rational about selling a Vintage car that I've loved, & rational about the price too. But if Real Buyers with Real $$ show up........& Winter is coming......? (Not saying the price you should take, because I don't know).
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    In QB's defense, I love ads with tons of information - the longer the better. No detail is too small for me (as long as you don't post a page or two of manufacturer ad copy from when it was new.)
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    There are actually outer, middle, and inner rockers. The only ones you can see are the outer rockers. If you were selling this on the left coast some buyer spoiled by having seen nothing but completely rust free cars his whole life might be concerned by that speck, but for an east coast car that thing's rock solid.

    Thanks for the comments on the Super. It will be a lot cooler when I can actually drive it.

    -Jason
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    jaserb - so based on that ... it may even be the middle rockers. weird. but you're right, for an East Coast car, its about as good as it gets before you are talking "complete recent restoration" and big $$.

    woody - hell no. my bottom price would be $4500. I don't NEED to sell it (not yet at least). And i don't believe it will depreciate. And I've already set the goal in my mind that if it doesn't sell for at least $4500 by mid-to-late October, then I pull the ads and wait till Spring. I will very likely do work to it over the winter and raise the price in Spring. :)

    How much do I have in it? I truly have no idea. And, of course, there is that ever-common problem of my own time. If we're talking out-of-pocket expenses ... oh... ummmm.... including original price of car.... geesh. I'll ballpark it at $6000. The little expense truly get lost over the course of a decade. And I'm a very poor record keeper.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You are exactly right. This body is solid by East Coast standards, although a California buyer would probably sniff at it cautiously.In the UK it would be concours.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    It's such a good looking car--from the pics, I really like the new paint job. If I had it, I might be thinking about re-doing the interior to whatever extent I could afford; even just new carpet.

    When you hear about people paying nuts prices for ratty old accords, etc........here's a question: what if it sells? How much will you miss it?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    I'm not sure how much I'll miss it. I may miss the novelty of being an Alfa owner more than the car itself. Now I'd be a car guy with no car to prove I'm a car guy.

    Not getting much action this first weekend of the ads being up. Most likely, it will go up on Ebay on Thursday. I figure that's a good day to list because I can pick a 10-day auction, get 2 weekends out of it, and end on a Sunday.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    "I'm not sure how much I'll miss it. I may miss the novelty of being an Alfa owner more than the car itself. Now I'd be a car guy with no car to prove I'm a car guy."

    But once the Alfa's sold, you'll have a good reason to find a 'new' car-guy-car that you'll be excited about. What'll you look for??
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wouldn't buy another 80s Spider either. But I'd love to have a clean little Giulia sedan and I'd just about die for a Type 101 Sprint coupe. I ALMOST snagged a '57 Veloce coupe two years ago, just missed it. It was snagged by some bottom-feeder, scum-sucking lowlife who weaseled it out of a recent widow, before THIS scum-sucking lowlife could snatch it from her. She was no fool, she wanted a fair price, and it needed a restoration, but it was SO solid and original.

    The car had, as we say in the classic car Hunter's Club----"good bones".
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Whereabouts in the DC Metro area are you located? I live and work in Alexandria, not too far from the District at all.

    I'm glad to see that you still have the yellow Spider and that it is providing you with a lot of fun. As I mentioned earlier in the forum, I recently purchased a project of my own: an '84 Volvo 240 coupe, with a 4-speed and the bulletproof 2.3-liter engine. The 240 has provided me with some decent thrills in the three weeks I've owned it- however, I don't drive it on a daily basis because I absolutely will not drive a stick in the heavy traffic on Alexandria streets.

    One comment about the 2.3- I've discovered all too quickly that unlike an Alfa four-cylinder, it doesn't like to rev at all. The engine gets winded very quickly and I find myself having to shift out of first very early, at around 10 mph and 2600 rpm.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    this would be a good car for me. 93 mustang cobra
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What would you do with it? Park it and look at it late at night in the garage? If one pays for such low miles, one cannot drive the car or one loses one's "investment"; and if one doesn't use the car and let's it rot, what exactly is the point for a 1993 Mustang?

    I'm amazed someone bid $28K on it. That's about $8K over book for the most pristine one on the planet and includes a $4K bonus for miles. This isn't an R, after all, or a convertible even. It's just a used car that will continue to depreciate for a while.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Oh wow, small world! When did you move down this way? I'm less than 1/2 hour from Alexandria, over in Maryland!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,967
    i would just like one that i drive whenever i feel like it. it's rwd, v8, stick, with a sunroof.
    black would be better than red, but whatever.
    i don't need 300/400 horsepower that does 1.0 g's on a skid pad.
    over the last 5 years i have not put over 900 miles a year on my 1991 mustang, but i cherish them. it's not about the 'ultimate', but what i like.
    i think it's a common affliction, but it's about what you are willing to pay for it. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    What'll you look for??

    Odds are very very strong that it won't be a convertible. I greatly prefer the rigidity and security of an enclosed car ... so I've found out over the years.

    Shifty ... I'm with you, of course. I wouldn't turn down another Alfa. Just can't be a droptop.

    But, in the end, I'm 90% sure I'll be thinking "track car," so it will probably be something much easier to get parts for and easier to maintain. Maybe a frankenstein of some sort. Get a light rear-driver, gut it, and throw in some sort of JDM drivetrain. Hell, maybe I'll weld up a tube chassis and go from there. ;)

    Although, a similar car to that $5k M3 I posted for my father a couple of weeks ago would be mighty tempting, too.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I've lived in Alexandria for just a little over a year now. I love living in such a small and historic city- there is always plenty to do.

    If you don't use the '74 Spider on a daily basis, what is your everyday driver? I'd love to use my '84 Volvo as a commuting car but it's just too old to risk on these busy DC Metro roads. I don't want to drive it and have it quit on me for no reason at all.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Why don't you build a Spec Miata and keep the hardtop on it? Oh gosh, an old M3 will just pummel you into the dirt with expenses. One missed shift and you can throw the car away. I could probably FIND a used Miata engine lying on the side of the freeway.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    He couldn't even GIVE that Caddy to me. I like my cars as original as possible and the two things that would immediately have to go are the tacky wheels and the garish paint job.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    LOL! Let me know when that turns up. I can probably find a Miata shell on the side of the highway. We'll introduce the two.

    I thought of a Miata w/ hardtop, too. Its possible. It all depends on what I find when I'm looking.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Miatas are so cheap and plentiful here in CA. I think you'd look great with a robin's egg blue one and little sunflower stickers on the bumper :shades:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    I might have to get a red one and get some custom decals a la Mia and Tia:

    image

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    What's the progress with the Alfa as of late? Have you found any takers yet?

    I've got a few suggestions for a nice, fun, cheap sporty car:

    4th-generation Honda Prelude. These are good-handling vehicles with the vaunted Honda reliability, and they are out there, providing you can find one that hasn't been abused or modified into a boy-racer.

    1990-93 Toyota Celica. Try to find one in either GT-S or All-Trac trim, then the fun really begins there. The All-Trac is a ferocious handler.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    no real buyers yet.

    I'm already in that mode where I'm thinking "OK. I listed it, so I want it gone already!" But I gotta be patient. I'll just keep tinkering as time allows. Went out there yesterday to see why my interior lights were out. Found 3 blown fuses. I have no idea what they were connected to, but one of them was the lights. Also replaced one of the convertible top holddown screws that was missing, and dug up spare/missing emblems and threw those in the glovebox. Just little stuff that I notice.

    oh, and about the AC, I think it may be seized. Can't get more than 2 fingers on the front of the compressor, but I couldn't move it. Not sure what kind of leverage I would need, but I would think it wouldn't be THAT tough.

    I've always liked the Preludes. Just not sure I'm willing to go FWD for my fun/track car.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Ah. I hope you find a buyer for the Alfa soon. One will come in due time.

    While we're on the subject, do you have any suggestions on how to make my '84 Volvo sportier and handle better?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes! Sell it and buy a BMW 325. :P

    Seriously though, you could probably find some parts from IPD

    http://www.ipdusa.com/

    Definitely sway bars and/or sway bar bushings front and rear and better shocks/struts. Bilsteins are wonderful. A shock tower brace might help but that's kind of nit-picking. And GOOD TIRES. Lowering the car would be GREAT but I'm not sure how you're going to do that very easily. Maybe iPD has an option there. And special tie rods are a slick trick.

    Unless you're in for $1,000 dollars or so, I wouldn't even start. That's at least what it will take to make the Swedish sofa handle reasonably well. $1,500 would be better.

    If you are on a strict budget you might just go with sticky tires and a first-class wheel alignment and corner-weighting designed for quick turn in, etc.

    If you go with those poly sway bar bushings you can expect a harsher ride.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    I have an E36 M3 Sedan as my daily driver - when I'm not biking to work. I live out near the Dulles airport these days. The M3 is great - I plan on taking it to a HPDE event at VIR in November, which should be a lot of fun.

    Re: track Miatas - I had a GREAT little dual-purpose track / street '92 Miata a while back, but finally sold it because I got tired of having to duck my head under the roll bar every time I passed a corner. I'm not that tall, either - 5'11". I agree that there's not much better than a Miata for a cheap track sl ... er ... companion :) but you have to actually fit in it.

    -Jason
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    That's wonderful- I hope the M3 continues to treat you well over the years.

    When you first came on board here in the forums, I recall you mentioning a '77 Toyota Celica that either you or your brother had purchased as a project. Do you guys still have it, or did it go to another owner?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    well, shifty hit ya with the IPD link. That's pretty much the end-all-be-all.

    However, you may want to search on swedespeed. There is the occassional madman who will make his own parts. I got a set of heavy duty adjustable endlinks that way. They were very very nice and quite cheap compared to IPD.

    Yeah, if you go all out, you're talking sways, endlinks, springs, and shocks at a minimum. So... $1k sounds about right. Start with the sways and endlinks and work your way up from there.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What that Volvo really needs is body roll control and something to quicken/tighten up the steering. It's very "dead" in the center. Once the car is "set" and has done all the flopping over on its door handles and all the pushing that it's going to do, you can usually muscle it around the turn pretty good. It ain't pretty but it will go around a corner.

    One big problem IMO is high roll center. Basically you are driving a Swedish lighthouse.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    I didn't know you were a Volvo owner too. What model do you have?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    HAD a '98 S70 T5. GREAT car! Bought it with 30k and got it up to 115k before selling it. Most miles and longest I've ever owned a car.
    Also bought a '90 740 wagon. Had that for a couple of days before giving it to my brother. But I've had to do a good bit of research and help him out with repairs since then. Its basically a rebodied 240.

    out of 22 vehicles that have passed through my hands, 2 were Hondas, 2 were volvos, 2 were AMC/Jeep, and 2 were Mazdas. The other 15 were all from different manufacturers. So I have at least a little bit of knowledge of 18 makes. Yikes.

    OK, maybe not totally on the up-and-up if you think about it. Like the Mercury Zephyr and Ford Mustang. I mean, almost identical cars under the skin (and yet 13 years difference in them!). Or the Nissan 350Z and Infiniti G35X, as another example.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

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